New Laguna 1.5DCI V Citroen C5 1.6HDI

Stevie Dakota

These two cars are top of my shortlist. Not interested in Mondeo or Passat. As you can tell from the two performance, handling, etc is not a priority. Low running costs, economy, toys and comfort are.

The Renualt is cheaper to run, has slightly better performance and economy that the C5, has lower road tax and is cheaper than the C5 by about €1500, it is also better equipped with part leather, bluetooth, rear PDC, ipod connection, sunblinds, keyless go and few other goodies that are missing from the C5.

Renault warranty is 3 years, Citroen is 2.
Assuming Renault have improved quality, and the Laguna sure feels it, combined with the three year warranty the Laguna should be quite painless to own.

So far the head is saying Renault.

The C5 is off course much better looking, which appeals to the heart, and is probably slightly more comfortable and refined.

Depreciation, also a bit of an unknown but safe to assume the Laguna will depreciate faster, but due to its low running costs and tax should be an appealing second hand buy for someone. However, I plan to hold on to the car for a while so depreciation is not a major concern.

So, what do you think, which would you go for, and can I have a more considered response than the usual “Renault is crap” nonsense!

BrianD3

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

safe to assume the Laguna will depreciate faster

I wouldn't have said that's a safe assumption! I certainly wouldn't buy a Citroen ahead of a Renault based on an idea that the Citroen would depreciate less.

Stevie Dakota

Right you are Brian, depreciation is a factor with both cars, but as I said that does not really concern me as I will be keeping it for some time.

E92

What about the Mazda 6 diesel? Of the 2 cars you mentioned, I'd have the Citroen though. I think it is a car that may make Citroen desirable once again to Irish buyers, provided they can make it reliable.

The Mazda won't cost a whole pile more than either from July(they're going down to €27,500 apparently but we'll wait and see till the official prices come out) but offers superior performance going on the stats and will have Japanese reliability as standard too.

The Avensis D-4D Luna may be seriously getting on a bit, but it ticks all the boxes the OP is looking for, and also will be considerably cheaper from July since Toyota are meant to also be passing on VRT savings in full to the consumer.

Stevie Dakota

Drove the Mazda, didn't like the firm ride, refinement or dull interior, didn't feel as solid or comfortable as the 2 cars mentioned, does look nice through. Avensis, no thanks.

johnf2020

Dont think there is much in it.
Renault wont want to trade in the Citroen:D
Citroen wont want to trade in the Renault:D

Everybody else wont want either

RobAMerc

have driven neither so I wouldn't know - but on looks the C5 has it hands down.
Also the Laguna had been criticized in the press for well, not really moving motoring forward if you get me.

I would get a nice spec'd C5 with big alloys and maybe the hydroactive ride if its not too expensive and look for a hefty discount - should sell on easy enough on looks alone

R.O.R

We currently have a Laguna 1.5Dci on long term demo so I've driven it a few times. I'm very impressed with the pace from the engine, but the rest of the car does nothing for me. I've never liked the seating position in Renaults, nor the dash layout - but if it works for you.....

Renault have made lots of claims about the reliability of the new model, and with Renault taking over distribution rights for Ireland their after sales service should improve. In the UK where the Old Laguna was just as problematic as over here, the service from Renault dealers was outstanding to compensate. If that happens over here then the only reason not to go for that is the resale value, which if you are keeping it for a long time won't really matter.

For the old C5 and Laguna the resale value is equally as poor so I'd predict similar for the new models. We will be getting a C5 demo in a few weeks so I can't comment on that yet until I've had a spin. According to our source there has already been massive demand for them, but our source is the Fleet guy in Gowan Distributors so I'd kinda expect him to say that

BrianD3

I'd go for the Laguna anyway and when it comes to a Citroen vs Renault comparsion I have no bias. Everyone thinks the Citroen looks great - i'm not mad about it, its inoffensive but could be an opel or an Audi and I think the interior isn't great. The Laguna is in a way "uglier" but more distinctive than the C5 and the interior is better. The Laguna is lighter and more compact which may be a disadvantage or an advantage. The Laguna's ride comfort has been criticised by the UK mags but then again they often get it wrong when it comes to evaluating ride comfort. The Citroen may be slightly more comfortable but AFAIK all the 1.6 versions have steel springs. Even the steel sprung Citroens have a more sophisticated rear suspension, the Laguna still has the H beam/twist axle that a lot of manufacturers have moved away from. As already stated the Laguna has a better warranty and better Co2 emissions which is a big factor post July.

As for reliability - I would not be surprised if the new Laguna is as reliable as any car out there. Just looking at the ADAC statistics Renaults got a lot better after about 2003 and you can be sure with all the bad press the previous car got that they will want to hit back hard with this one.

pburns

Haven't driven the C5 but have driven the Laguna and have to admit to bit of grudging repect. Was livlier than I expected and interior really is high quality.

The C5 is quite heavy and this hurts it badly for performance, economy CO2 etc. The fact that the 1.6 HDi Citroen has similar emissions to the new 2.0 D Mazda 6 just underlines the fact that the French car is badly engineered.

return guide

Op,
IMHO there is not much in it really, both are french oilburners so should be reliable. Both are built to french build quility, so should be on a par.

But the big thing for me would be what would you like siting on your driveway, for me the c5 wins hands down, the laguna has the look of the old c5.

In saying that I drove a 1.6 c5 and found it rather dull in the cabin and on take off from the lights, but not as dull as the new mazda 6, which I was very disappointed with- the trim was not fixed correctly and it felt sluggish compared to the c5. Then I found posts on this site to say that Mazda are having problems with their build quility.

I am going to try the 2.0 hdi c5 (33500 in July) which I hope will be as good as the Mondeo, I am reluctant to get the Ford even though it is great, because I think its looks will date as the thousands of fellow company drivers get their on the road.

just my thoughts, hope the are of help.

RT

GERMAN ROCKS

i would also get the citroen c5. i think its the best looking saloon car out in the road now. also they should be very economical. make sure u get it wit the big alloys

junkyard

My next door neighbour has had his new Laguna towed to the dealers on four occassions, oil leaks, powersteering problems and just not starting, needless to say he's not too happy, I warned him too but he bought one anyway all because Renault were the only ones that would trade in his old Laguna, he simply can't get out of them now that he bought one in the first place.
If your limiting your options to Renault or Citroen I'd buy a Citroen, in fact I'd buy a pedal bike before I'd buy a Renault tbh, hidious yokes!;)

Stevie Dakota

return guide wrote: »

In saying that I drove a 1.6 c5 and found it rather dull in the cabin and on take off from the lights, but not as dull as the new mazda 6, which I was very disappointed with- the trim was not fixed correctly and it felt sluggish compared to the c5. Then I found posts on this site to say that Mazda are having problems with their build quility.

I am going to try the 2.0 hdi c5 (33500 in July) which I hope will be as good as the Mondeo, I am reluctant to get the Ford even though it is great, because I think its looks will date as the thousands of fellow company drivers get their on the road.

just my thoughts, hope the are of help.

RT

I agree on the Mazda, after all the hype a real let down. I drove the C5 2.0 hdi, very impressive but a bit too expensive. The 1.6 has all the same attributes but a bit slower with it. A pity the 1.6 also only has a 5 speed box. What I am hearing about the new Laguna is a real surprise, given that Renault really made an effort on the quality, its the supposed quality that could forgive the challenged styling. C5 is looking the better bet of these two.

unkel

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

The Renualt ... cheaper than the C5 by about €1500

The base list prices of the Laguna and the old C5 are both €28.5k. The new C5 is indeed €1.5k dearer. Presuming spec levels are similar, I'd go for the C5 if you got hydractive suspension for that price. But you don't. Despite their huge marketing effort, I'd expect the good old discounts will be available again. If not now, then maybe in a few months time

Maybe I'm not looking at it right, but it looks like you'll have to buy a C5 2.0HDi 138 Exclusive to get the hydractive suspension. This lists for €39k, about the same as a BMW 520d from July. Citroen must be having a laugh?

E92

While it would be nice unkel if we could have a new 520d for €39k, it is actually going down to €46,057! I agree that €39k is crazy money for a C5 though. €39.5k roughly could buy you a 318d Edition ES for example!

The Laguna will be €26,590 for the entry diesel from July, and the Citroen is said to be going down by €1,800 to €28,300.

Truth be told neither will hold their value, especially the Renault in the long run, unless both offer a considerable improvement in reliability, which judging by what I've heard about the new Laguna, ain't gonna happen just yet.

BrianD3

E92 wrote: »

which judging by what I've heard about the new Laguna, ain't gonna happen just yet.

What exactly have you heard and where have you heard it?

E92

Your 2 favourite posters : HFIII and Junkyard:D! I've heard other people mention it too though, and from people who are less biased against Renaults than them though.

Either way I'd be wanting a big big discount if I were buying one since they'll lose money hand over fist(not that the Citroen will be any better in the short term at least, mind).

unkel

Typo! Meant 320d, not 520d

Guy:Incognito

E92 wrote: »

While it would be nice unkel if we could have a new 520d for €39k, it is actually going down to €46,057! I agree that €39k is crazy money for a C5 though. €39.5k roughly could buy you a 318d Edition ES for example!
.

Nothing to do with the cars being discussed but it might comeas a shock to you but not everyone wants a BMW.



For the record, I'd buy a C6 if I was in the market for car in that price bracket, despite the fact that BMW do many cars at or around that price.

junkyard

I'd buy a C6 too, fabulous car in many respects, I drove one about a month ago and I thought it was incredible.

E92

Stekelly wrote: »

Nothing to do with the cars being discussed but it might come as a shock to you but not everyone wants a BMW.

No it doesn't! I have no time for the new X6, or indeed any BMW SUV. That wasn't the point I was trying to make at all. The point I was trying to make is that if you spend €39k on a new BMW(or Audi etc), when you want to trade it in, dealers will love you and give you a great price for one because their depreciation is so low and rightly or wrongly, they're extremely desirable to Irish buyers. Try the same thing with the C5 and you haven't a hope. At 26-28k it makes sense to go for a Citroen over a BMW, but when you're getting close to BMW(or Audi, Merc etc) territory for pricing then it most certainly does not.

I'd buy a C6 if I got it on the cheap, no doubt it will depreciate faster than acceleration due to gravity.

ninty9er

I'd have the Citroën, but only with hydractive suspension...can you tell I like gizmos:D:D

Guy:Incognito

E92 wrote: »

No it doesn't! I have no time for the new X6, or indeed any BMW SUV. That wasn't the point I was trying to make at all. The point I was trying to make is that if you spend €39k on a new BMW(or Audi etc), when you want to trade it in, dealers will love you and give you a great price for one because their depreciation is so low and rightly or wrongly, they're extremely desirable to Irish buyers. Try the same thing with the C5 and you haven't a hope. At 26-28k it makes sense to go for a Citroen over a BMW, but when you're getting close to BMW(or Audi, Merc etc) territory for pricing then it most certainly does not.

I'd buy a C6 if I got it on the cheap, no doubt it will depreciate faster than acceleration due to gravity.

TBH I dont concern myself with resale values. Thats the next owner's problem/advantage. I buy the car I like car for me without a regard for the next person.


Resale value doesnt always relate to how good a car is anyway. If it did then according to Iriah people the Golf is the greatest car ever made.

Guy:Incognito

ninty9er wrote: »

I'd have the Citroën, but only with hydractive suspension...can you tell I like gizmos:D:D

I have it on my Xantia. It's quality.:)

E92

Stekelly wrote: »

TBH I dont concern myself with resale values. Thats the next owner's problem/advantage. I buy the car I like car for me without a regard for the next person.


Resale value doesnt always relate to how good a car is anyway. If it did then according to Iriah people the Golf is the greatest car ever made.

Eh... it does concern you when you see what dealers tell you what they think you car is worth. The biggest cost of buying a car is not the price, but the depreciation.

If a Citroen depreciates by €10k more over say 4 years than say a Merc, then they only way it will be cheaper for me to run(being hypothetical here as I'm ignoring servicing, road tax etc) the Citroen is if it is at least €10k less to buy in the first place.

I'm sorry but depreciation definately comes into it for me, and indeed it should for anyone who is concerned about where their money is going. I've no problem spending good money looking after a car by valeting it, washing it etc but there is a point to which one can indulge in on cars and I'm sorry but depreciation is a pretty big one.

As for resale value determining whether a car is any good or not, couldn't agree with you more. All the soulless, bland, completely overrated Toyotas that retain their value at an unbelievable rate. We all know that a Honda or a Mazda would be more reliable if anything, yet they don't have this ability to hold their own on resale unfortunately. A shame, because these days they make vastly superior cars to Toyota. But it does make a car a more attractive proposition if it fares better on that scale;)!

Guy:Incognito

E92 wrote: »

Eh... it does concern you when you see what dealers tell you what they think you car is worth. The biggest cost of buying a car is not the price, but the depreciation.
.

Actually it doesnt concern me. As in I dont care.

junkyard

I don't care either, in fact I think I'll go out tomorrow and buy a new Laguna and trade it in again during the week and see how much money I can loose in 24 hours, sounds like great fun.:D

unkel

Stekelly wrote: »

Actually it doesnt concern me. As in I dont care.

If you don't care logic tells me it must be because you are either:

1. rich beyond caring
2. the last owner of the car, having bought it cheap. You'll drive it into the ground and you never need worry about re-selling it

I suspect you're the latter

The vast majority of Irish car owners do not fall into either category I'm afraid...

return guide

unkel wrote: »

Maybe I'm not looking at it right, but it looks like you'll have to buy a C5 2.0HDi 138 Exclusive to get the hydractive suspension. This lists for €39k, about the same as a BMW 520d from July. Citroen must be having a laugh?

Please show us where we can get a 520d for 39k.


Can I be first in line

Henry Ford III

E92 wrote: »

Your 2 favourite posters : HFIII and Junkyard:D! I've heard other people mention it too though, and from people who are less biased against Renaults than them though.

Either way I'd be wanting a big big discount if I were buying one since they'll lose money hand over fist(not that the Citroen will be any better in the short term at least, mind).

I've been lurking

Some laughable stuff here, from the regular Renault apologists.