Burglar Alarm

BarryC

Does anyone know where I can get a decent burglar (HKC or equivalent)?

Or even if there is any websites that sell reliable alarms

Thanks

fishdog

You could use an Astec. I have installed hundreads of them and find them great. They can also have a built in dialler. Quick and easy to install and program too. Phone them on 01 6704202. They will help you with the install advice if you have trouble.

HKC you can get from NEW.

Aritech from Kellighers and Eurosales.

derek_g34

I would'nt go near the Astec system. Unlike other systems, only Astec detectors i.e. contacts, shock sensors, motion detectors will work with the Astec control panel. The system is an absolute nightmare to fault find when something goes wrong.

Stick with HKC and you wont go wrong. The text dialler is probably one of the best communicators around if you dont want to get involved in a monitoring fee from a security company. If you wish, the system will text all activity i.e. alarm activations, system armed/disarmed mains fails to multiple phone numbers. Unless of course you want Garda response and then you'll have to get involved with a monitoring station.

galwaytt

derek_g34 wrote: »

I would'nt go near the Astec system. Unlike other systems, only Astec detectors i.e. contacts, shock sensors, motion detectors will work with the Astec control panel. The system is an absolute nightmare to fault find when something goes wrong.

Stick with HKC and you wont go wrong. The text dialler is probably one of the best communicators around if you dont want to get involved in a monitoring fee from a security company. If you wish, the system will text all activity i.e. alarm activations, system armed/disarmed mains fails to multiple phone numbers. Unless of course you want Garda response and then you'll have to get involved with a monitoring station.

Re the HKC - I had that installed, including the dialler. Now, I ordered it from the installer, as having the text facility, and presumed it used a GSM module.

However, installer tells me dialler can't work without a landline - I don't/won't put in a landline - my wireless broadband is my IP phone - so, can I get a GSM dialler for the HKC?

Besides, surely with a landline one,all you have to do is snip the phone cable on the pole outside and it's all for nought, anyways........

fishdog

The system is an absolute nightmare to fault find when something goes wrong.

Its just different. If you go into engineer mode it will tell you where the fault is (which zone or device). After that you just need a good multimeter! I find it no harder than the other systems (such as Aritech and HKC). The beauty of it is nothing is polarity conscious and everything requires just 2 wires including the key pad, PIRs and sirens. This means less than 1/2 the connections. As well as that all of the sirens can go on the same two wires as can all of the PIRs and all of the keypads. Each device can still have its own address. Some people hate the Astec sensors and PIRs, but you can use HKC and Aritech sensors (or most other makes) as well as just about any make of PIR.

I will admit that HKC would be my first choice for a very large commercial premesis, but for anything else I would use an Astec system.

I have seen sevral registered firearms dealers that use Astec alarm systems so clearly the authorities feel they are up to spec too.

so, can I get a GSM dialler for the HKC?

Yes, from Borsatec for about €200

derek_g34

You would be amazed by the intelligence of these burglars (lack of). Someone I know had a break-in, firstly the intruders filled the wheelie bin with the garden hose, they then ripped the bellbox off the wall and threw it into the wheelie bin full of water to shut it up. They then broke in and ripped the internal siren off the wall. After all that hassle they never cut the phone, the Garda arrived and caught them in the act.

If you're serious about your security, get a GSM convertor, this will send any signals generated by the alarm system over the GSM network. No additional monitoring fees from your alarm company for GSM monitoring, but you will need a SIM card.(Not a pay as you go/ready to go)

fishdog

they then ripped the bellbox off the wall

At least it was a real bellbox!! This cost them time. Maybe why they got caught!
If it was a fake they might have been gone by then.

If you're serious about your security, get a GSM convertor, this will send any signals generated by the alarm system over the GSM network

+ 1

I agree 100%

Not a pay as you go/ready to go

Why?? A pay as you go will work fine. It will save you a monthly rental charge. The monitoring station will have no way of knowing.

derek_g34

What if you forget to top up your credit?

fishdog

What if you forget to top up your credit?

€20 of credit will last years. You can check the credit and top it up on line. The alarm installer can do this and charge for it as part of the service contract. The GSM module is generally just a back up anyway so it will not get used at all under normal conditions. A switch can be installed to diconnect the phone line from the GSM module so that its operation can be tested.

BoB_BoT

fishdog wrote: »

€20 of credit will last years. You can check the credit and top it up on line. The alarm installer can do this and charge for it as part of the service contract. The GSM module is generally just a back up anyway so it will not get used at all under normal conditions. A switch can be installed to diconnect the phone line from the GSM module so that its operation can be tested.

phone credit will actually expire, or your service can be terminated if you don't top up. I thought this was an old rule, but it's still in use. Just looked at meteors TOS for pay as you go, if you don't top up by 5euro every 330 days, you can't making outgoing calls and can only receive calls up to 30 days (not that it matters here). so if you put in systems that used GSM modules using PAYG sims, and forgot about them you're kinda up **** creek if it's your main form of alert.

After re-reading (should do that more often :P) you're right, you can offer it as a service, but again, it still leaves the possibility of error for an unchecked account or simple overlooking.

fishdog

phone credit will actually expire, or your service can be terminated if you don't top up.

This is possible, that is why I suggested:

A switch can be installed to diconnect the phone line from the GSM module so that its operation can be tested.

However to my surprise my own alarm has a PAYG O2 sim card that I have not toped up since I bought it nearly 3 years ago and it still works!

it still leaves the possibility of error for an unchecked account or simple overlooking.

Sure, you have to trust your alarm company or do it yourself if you dont!

If it worries you simply pay the rent! I am just making a suggestion to save money, it is optional.


I got this fom the Vodafone website:

How long is my top up credit valid for?
When you top up, you can make calls for six months and receive calls for 12 months.

jamesd

I have an astec 49dv alarm system in my house, I dont have a phone line but would like to get a text alert, Looking at http://www.rtcomms.com/astec.htm I see a DIGI-DIALLER,DIGITAL COMMUNICATOR and GSM MODULES.
Do I need I these too for the alarm to trigger outwards? or could they already be in my alarm?
Would a hkc gsm dialer work with an astec alarm?
I see this on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.ie/GSM-Burglar-Alarm-Module-Works-With-Most-Alarm-Systems_W0QQitemZ280298526875QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Burglar_Alarms?hash=item280298526875&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
has anyone tried one of them?


Looking on http://www.borsatec.com I see
HKC : HKC-702
HKC : HKC-703
and HKC : HKC-704 Are all 3 needed?

fred funk }{

You will need an Astec relay card/box. This when connected to your existing alarm will trigger a HKC Text dialler. You can get one off Astec who are the IDA centre on Pearse St in Dublin. You do not need a 49D/63D because the HKC dialler is obviously a dialler

KoolKid

jamesd wrote: »

I have an astec 49dv alarm system in my house, I dont have a phone line but would like to get a text alert, Looking at http://www.rtcomms.com/astec.htm I see a DIGI-DIALLER,DIGITAL COMMUNICATOR and GSM MODULES.
Do I need I these too for the alarm to trigger outwards? or could they already be in my alarm?
Would a hkc gsm dialer work with an astec alarm?
I see this on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.ie/GSM-Burglar-Alarm-Module-Works-With-Most-Alarm-Systems_W0QQitemZ280298526875QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Burglar_Alarms?hash=item280298526875&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
has anyone tried one of them?


Looking on http://www.borsatec.com I see
HKC : HKC-702
HKC : HKC-703
and HKC : HKC-704 Are all 3 needed?

Jamesd , I answered to this in your other post

lucy30

try the phonewatch website or www.alarm.ie

fred funk }{

fishdog wrote: »

koolkid:

Koolkid, you and I dont decide who is or is not an engineer! There is a national body for that. Below is a quote taken from the engineering forum:

"An Engineer is according to Engineers Ireland is someone who has completed a certified engineering course (preferably Level 8 or above on the National framework of qualifications). Depending on their position/responsibilities, they should also have appropriate work experience."

I dont see "alarm engineer" anywhere on the list! Long ago I accepted I am not an engineer, with help you will in time too.

Fishdog, you seem to have a serious problem with people who work on Alarm systems being called 'Alarm engineers', why is that? its only a word.

Is it because of a future qualification that you don't like that word being used to describe somebody that doesn't, in your opinion, deserve it.

All alarm systems have an 'engineer code' 'engineer menu' etc. whats the big deal.

fishdog

Fishdog, you seem to have a serious problem with people who work on Alarm systems being called 'Alarm engineers', why is that? its only a word.

Because they are not! It is incorrect and misleading. Where do you draw the line?? Is the guy that puts up a satellite dish an engineer? The person that cleans toilets a "cleaning engineer"? It dumbs down a high qualification.

Lets be honest, I am an electrician, and you are an alarm installer. There is nothing to be embarrassed about. Call a spade a spade. Being an alarm installer is a respectable job! It is difficult and challenging at times and if/when it becomes hard enough they may need to have a level 8 alarm engineers course.


In many countries it is a protected title.

Is it because of a future qualification that you don't like that word being used to describe somebody that doesn't, in your opinion, deserve it.

You and I dont decide who deserves it. That is the point. As explained above there is a national body for that.

Stoner

I've removed the posts about named companies from this thread, can we please leave the subject alone now, some companies are good and some are not, particular examples will always work, so please share those with the community,
pimping and knocking companies wont work.
thanks all.

KoolKid

fred funk }{ wrote: »

All alarm systems have an 'engineer code' 'engineer menu' etc. whats the big deal.

+ 1 Exactly
engineer lock
engineer reset
engineer log

Funny how our docket books , which are printed to NSAI specifications also have engineers signiture, engineer report etc etc

And well if you have an Astec system with a fault your really screwed, cause thats going to say call ENGINEER....

Ahh well as usual
The Standards are wrong
The Manufactures are wrong
The Designers are wrong (thier probobly not engineers either):rolleyes:
The guys who write the software, their wrong as well
All the licenced company's in the country are wrong they employed all these engineers
Come to think of it every bit of paperwork on me is wrong, wow my employment contact is wrong which means the Company's solicitor is wrong. The accountant is wrong........WOW
But don't woory lads its ok because we have Fishdog to save us all.:rolleyes:
He's bound to be right..
Maybe we'll bring out a new standard FD5013-1 we'll rewright it all & from now on ENGINEER will be a swear word & anyone who utters it will be sacked on the spot & sent to hell:D:D

And this guy doesn't even have a licence to install alarms WOW he's the Man!!!

fishdog

In Ireland universities, institutes of technology etc. use Engineers Ireland to accredit programmes to decide what courses are suitable to qualify a person as an engineer. Engineers Ireland have 23,000 members and is one of the country's oldest and largest professional bodies.

The simple fact is there is no level accredited 8 alarm engineer course run in any institution in Ireland (or in the world). There are no charted "alarm engineers". Membership to Engineers Ireland is not possible to applicants just because they have installed alarm systems.

Even if someone sees the word "engineer" written on the keypad of an alarm that they installed, or on a docket or sprayed on the wall of a toilet it does not mean that they can simply skip the necessity of having to meet the minimum requirements (a level 8 accredited degree) to become an engineer. These are not rules decided by me, they are the facts.

There will always be some that live in denial deciding that all of the 3rd level institutions in the country are wrong. Blaming me will not change the facts.

Installing alarms can be an interesting job with challanges, be honest about what you are, be proud!

KoolKid

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Same old Same Old
Next time I see George Lowery of the NSAI. I'll tell him to rewright the standards..
Fisdog said so

I think you really need to get over yourself...
One again you are not a licenced installer & yet you come one here hijacking thread after thread with your same rant.
Maybe you should PM the Admins & request ENGINEER to be set as a banned word.
The term is in use and recognised across the industry & if you have a major hang up about it nobody really cares..
Let the professionals give people the advice they ask for without this stupid argument coming up all the time.

fishdog

koolkid:

you come one here hijacking thread after thread with your same rant.

I am just correcting inaccurate and misleading statements to prevent people to be conned into believing that they are employing an engineer, when in fact they are employing an alarm installer!

My position is shared by 23,000 members of Engineers Ireland and all of the third level instituions in the country. This is discussed in a thread in the engineering forum by engineers here from post #29 onwards.

If I am incorrect it should be very easy for you to post a link for an accredited level 8 alarm engineering course or to gain membership of Engineers Ireland.

If I were to follow the logic of your arguement I must be a "secret agent" because I have a badge that says so!

KoolKid

fishdog wrote: »

koolkid:

I am just correcting inaccurate and misleading statements

You are just picking for the sake of it...As usual!!
Its a fourm here. we are not writing legal legislation.
Alarm & many other service industry professionals are called engineers, & will continue to be whether you like it or not.
How you relate that to them conning people is beyond me..

fishdog wrote: »

If I were to follow the logic of your arguement I must be a "secret agent" because I have a badge that says so!

You might as well be because you are not a licenced alarm installer .
So again I ask why wont you let the people who post here get the advice they ask for without hijacking every thread..Let the professionals give them the good advice they are asking for.
Would you like everyone, including the certification bodies the Guards, the accountants & all the manufacturers to change everything just to make you happy.

fred funk }{

fishdog wrote: »

In Ireland universities, institutes of technology etc. use Engineers Ireland to accredit programmes to decide what courses are suitable to qualify a person as an engineer. Engineers Ireland have 23,000 members and is one of the country's oldest and largest professional bodies.

The simple fact is there is no level accredited 8 alarm engineer course run in any institution in Ireland (or in the world). There are no charted "alarm engineers". Membership to Engineers Ireland is not possible to applicants just because they have installed alarm systems.

Even if someone sees the word "engineer" written on the keypad of an alarm that they installed, or on a docket or sprayed on the wall of a toilet it does not mean that they can simply skip the necessity of having to meet the minimum requirements (a level 8 accredited degree) to become an engineer. These are not rules decided by me, they are the facts.

There will always be some that live in denial deciding that all of the 3rd level institutions in the country are wrong. Blaming me will not change the facts.

Installing alarms can be an interesting job with challanges, be honest about what you are, be proud!

Jesus *bangs head off desk*

For the love of God! Please Google 'Alarm engineer' and tell me what comes up.
The word can describe many different professions, A refrigerator engineer, Alarm engineer, Fire alarm engineer etc. The word 'Engineer' is a word for describing a person who, given a problem and a specific set of goals and constraints, finds a technical solution to the problem that satisfies those goals within those constraints. Most people would know that an 'Electrical Engineer' would have higher qualifications (on paper) than those mentioned above. You have a serious chip on your shoulder my friend!

If and when you become an electrical engineer I will be the first to congratulate you. I have a lot of respect for people who further their qualifications, I really do but you seem to be very insecure for some reason, maybe you were teased for being an 'ordinary electrician' in the past, who knows.

Installing alarms can be an interesting job with challanges, be honest about what you are, be proud!

I'm very proud thanks especially when I look at my full schedule for the next six weeks, healthy bank account and hopefully another van on the road by May.

fishdog

fred funk }{, can I PM you?

fred funk }{

fishdog wrote: »

fred funk }{, can I PM you?

Sure.

KoolKid

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Jesus *bangs head off desk*

For the love of God! Please Google 'Alarm engineer' and tell me what comes up.

LOL even all the employment agencies are wrong according to fishdog!!

Stoner

Alright lads, this is another thread taken of line. I'm going to close it now.

If someone wants to open a fresh thread about Engineering and Engineers by all means do, just don't insult each other in it please.