Unreliability a Myth?

blackbox

We all know the stories that certain makes of cars are supposed to be unreliable, but is there any truth in them? When were you last actually in a car that broke down?

– and I don’t mean issues that were caused by driver error or bad roads, such as that you left it parked with the lights on, locked the keys in it or lost them, or that it ran out of petrol (unless maybe it was due to a faulty fuel gauge) or that it got a puncture?

Over the years I have owned 3 Fiats, 2 Toyotas, a Porsche, a Ford, a BMW a Volkswagen and a Mitsubishi.

The only actual breakdowns I recall were when I repeatedly drove my Citroen BX GT16 through deep puddles at high speed and when I put a dodgy electronic ignition kit in a Fiat X1-9 – neither of which you could really blame the manufacturer for.

I sometimes see cars on the side of the road with their bonnets up – about 50% seem to be Mercedes, and only yesterday I saw two Renaults and a BMW, but I never know the real story behind these events.

So let’s have your story. – NB the fewer responses I get the more I know that the myths are untrue...

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Ciaran500

Our 02 Laguna had both front electric windows break within a couple of months of each other. This allowed for the window to be just pushed down by hand and any potholes would jar them loose.

We've also been through 3 keys for it, the close button on them keeps failing but everything else works perfectly (starts the car and opens the door) so its just a mircoswith that is failing. Yet each time they said there was no way to repair them and charged about €200 to replace them. My uncle also had similar problems with his 03 Megane sunroof and key.

siralfalot

only two of my cars have ever let me down on the side of the road, a Pug 306 1.4 with electrical problems, and a Passat 1.9tdi with engine trouble

I've also had:
3 Toyotas
4 Alfas
2 Fiats
that never let me down

blackbox

siralfalot wrote: »

only two cars have ever let me down on the side of the road, a Pug 306 1.4 with electrical problems, and a Passat 1.9tdi with engine trouble

I've had:
3 Toyotas
4 Alfas
2 Fiats
that never let me down

The Pug and Passat weren't your own then? Do you know if they had been maintained?

Slig

I had a Daihatsu Charade and it was the only car that actually broke down on me, just stopped after working perfectly for years. Diesel pump had stopped working due to using washed Diesel I was told.
Had a Nissan Sunny did the same but I knew there was something wrong with it and it wasent worth getting fixed.
Had a mitsubishi pajero which was great mechanically but ya had to cross your fingers if you wanted any of the electrics to work (probably from being dunked in the water every weekend) and I now have a Nissan Terrano that the fuel gauge sometimes works and various lights come on the dash without reason or warning.

cjt156

I've owned or driven long term;
Renault, VW, Peugeot, Ford, Mazda, Volvo and 2 Alfas.

The only one to ever have me stopped at the side of the road was the VW Golf.
If only everything in life was as reliable as an Alfa Romeo;)

siralfalot

blackbox wrote: »

The Pug and Passat weren't your own then? Do you know if they had been maintained?

yes they were mine, and every one of them were serviced regularly, my first post edited to clarify, sorry!

blackbox

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Our 02 Laguna had both front electric windows break within a couple of months of each other. This allowed for the window to be just pushed down by hand and any potholes would jar them loose.

We've also been through 3 keys for it, the close button on them keeps failing but everything else works perfectly (starts the car and opens the door) so its just a mircoswith that is failing. Yet each time they said there was no way to repair them and charged about €200 to replace them. My uncle also had similar problems with his 03 Megane sunroof and key.

I think it would be fair to say that they had a shoddy build quality, rather than were unreliable.

Phaetonman

See what you are asking for now is an impromptu reliability survey with a handful of respondants. Why not just rely on the proper ones?

Another thing to watch out for with reliabilty surveys is the % of people reporting faults for supposed unreliable cars might actually be fairly low.

Eoin

My 89 mini wasn't the must trustworthy of cars - a pin in the gear shift linkage fell out leaving me stuck. I think that was the only time it couldn't move under its own power, but there was a whole list of other problems that came up.

My 3 series clutch went late last year at rush hour, but it had the guts of 120K miles on the clock by then.

alias no.9

When individual cars are bad, they tend to be very bad, but there can be years of trouble free motoring in marques/models perceived as being unreliable. Personally I think the margin between reliable marques/models and unreliable marques/models is very slender.
Our perception of reliability goes back to the days when you crossed your fingers on a wet or cold morning and hoped the damn thing would start. The replacement of carburettors, distributors, manual chokes with fuel injection, electronic ignition, and engine management systems means that almost every car starts first time, every time. When they do go wrong it's usually a sensor and the car can usually operate at reduced power until you get it to a garage.

Slig

I agree, most cars are fairly even now with engine technologies similar.
I know of people that will only buy Jap cars for their reliability but will still buy a nissan:D

Kavinsky

I think Fiats deserve their reputation. I know 2 different people who bought Fiat Punto as their 1st car and, in both cases the clutch went within 3 months of buying the car! Is that crazy or what?

jameshayes

Kavinsky wrote: »

I think Fiats deserve their reputation. I know 2 different people who bought Fiat Punto as their 1st car and, in both cases the clutch went within 3 months of buying the car! Is that crazy or what?

Sounds like bad driving - when i drove my punto I found it very easy to ride the clutch

ianobrien

Going back about 25 years of cars at home, the only breakdowns I can remember in mine & Da's cars were

1. Clutch cable snapping in a 86 Orion
2. Timing belt snapping prematurely in the 86 Orion (at 30k miles ish) Car was bought new, and got rid of 3 years later
3. Crankshaft timing sensor going in a 00 Primera while 3 months old. The recall notice came the following day.

Other problems we had but managed to get the car home include distributor caps & rotor arms going (we always carry spares in the cars), Crankshaft oil seals going and contaminating the clutch (thank God for Coke!), exhaust mounts snapping (repaired with wire), holed rads fixed with eggs, etc

We usually have a few tools in the back of every car...

Fozzie Bear

My buddy works in a Renault main dealers and he says there the greatest piles of sh1te he has even seen. They have had 3 of the brand new Laguna's back with diesel leaks with weeks of them being sold. Out from that their service department is kept busy with just about every fault you could think of.

I don't think the reputations some brands have are without justification. Maybe its changed in recent years but my father would never buy a French or Italian car. Now thats not down to good old fashioned racism or anything but simply when he was a young man these brands were notoriously unreliable bags of sheeite. I in turn have pretty much the same views on these brands given this and from what I have heard and read about them myself. I tend to stick to Japanese or German cars as I personally feel they are better built and more reliable in the main.

TychoCaine

Fiat/Alfa get a bit of a hard time. Their electrics aren't the greatest, but they're nowhere near as bad as some French cars. It's their dealers that pi55 me off. All in all though, the worst of today's cars are way more reliable than the best of the cars from the 80's. There's a company in the UK called Warranty Direct that do after-market car warranties for Joe Public and the 2nd hand car trade. As you'd expect they've a huge database of what goes wrong with each model of car, and they've been nice enough to put it all online @ http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/. Their numbers should be a) accurate and b) impartial. Their "reliability index" is a metric derived from frequency of failure and cost of repair.

Stevie Dakota

Looks like all family cars are crap so, Lagunas leaking diesel, Mazda 6 diesels blowing up, Passat handbrake and electrical woes, Mondeo generally unreliable, Accord with turbo issues. They sure don't make them like they used to...

RobAMerc

how id it the Fiat/Alfa/Renault stories seem to always start with - my buddy has or a mate knows - but the people who actually owned them say they were great ?

Anyway - only cars to let me down were

honda crx - distributor
mercedes - ECU (Well it was 35 years old )
Renault 19 16v - fuel pump at 50k

reliability is the measure of a car only if you know fook all else about them - otherwise it ain't the end of the world if it does break down.

Anan1

Kavinsky wrote: »

I think Fiats deserve their reputation. I know 2 different people who bought Fiat Punto as their 1st car and, in both cases the clutch went within 3 months of buying the car! Is that crazy or what?

The answer's in the question.;)

unkel

alias no.9 wrote: »

I think the margin between reliable marques/models and unreliable marques/models is very slender.

Agreed. Provided the cars are properly maintained. In fact the single least reliable car for sale in the UK has an issue on average once a year (see reliability index studies etc.)

Hotwheels

The only car to let me down was a MKiii XR3i, water pump failed and broke the belt. Bent two valves, which I replaced and was good as new...

Other cars milage at time of sale:

Vectra GT 160,000 miles no breakdowns Punto 50,000 miles no breakdowns Punto 25,000 miles no breakdowns Alfa Romeo 156 42,000 miles no breakdowns Alfa Romeo 159 JTDm 60,000 miles no breakdowns Alfa Romeo 159 JTDm 1,500 miles (and counting)

Most of today’s cars are reliable, providing you look after them properly...

Green Hornet

My brother had a Renault Laguna for three years 2001 1.8 Sport. It was absolute dung.

The key card stopped working so he could not lock the car (two different key cards) because there was no manual lock.

Engine management light kept coming on but the Renault garage could not find any fault. In the end he just ignored it.

Front passanger window went up and down on its own - or would not work at all.

The drive by wire throttle had to be replaced.

30 mpg.

He sold it 3 weeks ago. I suppose by the letter of the law it always started and stopped as required but I dont think it could really be classed as a reliable car.

GTC

Hotwheels wrote: »

Most of today’s cars are reliable, providing you look after them properly...

You're kidding right?

We in Traffic Corps keep the cars absolutely perfectly maintained. We drive them hard, but drive them well, we're good to clutches and keep wheels tracked, balanced etc. Services at 1/2 normal intervals.

Yet we have Ford Mondeos eating clutches like they were made of ice-cream. Air conditioning failing (no matter how well kept) at ~100k miles. Front suspension is notorious. Interior handles etc., fall off like they're made of blu-tac. Ford Focuses (used in smaller stations) are still proving unreliable and awful to drive (1.4 is like floggin a dead horse (decomposing and very, very smelly horse at that)

BMWs with scores of glitches, Mercedes ministerial cars spending months in the shop, the only wagon that gave feck all trouble was a Toyota Camry 3.0V6 we had a year or so ago. The newer Vectra TDs are proving quite good, if a little blighted with silly glitches in the electrics.

JD Power surveys regularly put Japanese built cars in the top 10, (ignore euro-built Japanese badged cars) and I'd tend to stick to the Jap stuff myself.

All this having been said, a lot depends on what you're prepared to put up with. Some people ignore the quality of the car and idolise the number plate, its horses for courses IMO.

Green Hornet

[quote=GTC;5596

JD Power surveys regularly put Japanese built cars in the top 10, (ignore euro-built Japanese badged cars) and I'd tend to stick to the Jap stuff myself.

[/quote]
Good point. I know that the Swindon built Honda Civic (hatchback models)is supposed to be of a lower build quality than the Jap built saloons.

Kavinsky

GTC wrote: »

You're kidding right?

We in Traffic Corps keep the cars absolutely perfectly maintained. We drive them hard, but drive them well, we're good to clutches and keep wheels tracked, balanced etc. Services at 1/2 normal intervals.

Yet we have Ford Mondeos eating clutches like they were made of ice-cream. Air conditioning failing (no matter how well kept) at ~100k miles. Front suspension is notorious. Interior handles etc., fall off like they're made of blu-tac. Ford Focuses (used in smaller stations) are still proving unreliable and awful to drive (1.4 is like floggin a dead horse (decomposing and very, very smelly horse at that)

You are a member of the Gardai, can I ask you something that I have always wondered. Why do the Gardai drive Fords mostly (Mondeos/Focuses). Why not Nissan/Toyota/Honda or Mazda? I know the cops in America drive Fords also (Crown Victorias), but their roads are a lot different to ours and more suited to a car like that.

Kavinsky

Oh I see there's another topic dedicated to this exact subject lol I am new around here. Might be better off discussing it in the other one.

BrianD3

Green Hornet wrote: »

My brother had a Renault Laguna for three years 2001 1.8 Sport. It was absolute dung.

The key card stopped working so he could not lock the car (two different key cards) because there was no manual lock.

Engine management light kept coming on but the Renault garage could not find any fault. In the end he just ignored it.

Front passanger window went up and down on its own - or would not work at all.

Funny how in all your previous posts slagging off Renault you didn't mention your "brother's" 2001 Laguna even once. However you did mention your "friend's" 2002 Laguna which lo and behold seems to have had the exact same problems as your "brother's" one.

Green Hornet wrote:

My friend has a 2002 Laguna and the passanger electric window goes up and down on its own! Had to disconnect it so now it wont go up or down. The doors wont lock and he cant lock them by hand because there is no manual option so he cant bring it anywhere. This is the second time its happened.

The dash lights up like a Christmas tree with warning lights but Renault cant find a problem.

Green Hornet

BrianD3 wrote: »

Funny how in all your previous posts slagging off Renault you didn't mention your "brother's" 2001 Laguna even once. However you did mention your "friend's" 2002 Laguna which lo and behold seems to have had the exact same problems as your "brother's" one.

Apologies, my brothers was 2001. He got 3500 Euro for it. The guy in work has a 2002 model. As I said in the post, it always started and stopped OK. The electrics were the problem and the post 2003 models were supposed to be better. I believe many people with the 2001 and 2002 models experienced similar issues.

junkyard

The new Passat is in pole position again for breakdowns this week according to my friends in the AA. On a recent trip I passed four of them on recovery trucks all with in a 30 mile trip and no, there wasn't a Passat show on anywhere!:)

E92

Somebody I know bought a new 2.0 TDI A6 at the start of the year. Within a week it was on a lo-loader going back to the garage. Yesterday it went back for the third time. Ah yes, the joys of modern German engineering.

They don't make cars like they used to, even Toyotas give trouble these days.