puppy growling

maggie797

hi I hope I can help on here. We have a bitch puppy that is about 14 weeks old, she is a JR. We got her from about 5 or 6 weeks, she was tiny when we got her.the trouble is on the last 2 weeks when she is lying with me outside or on the sofa she growls if anyone comes near her or me. she seems to beb particulalry bad if she is being asleep or is very comfy.
I am concerend about this behaviour and wanted any tips on how to deal with it efectively. At the mment I remove her immediately and put her in the kithen for about 20 mins, no eye contact, dont have a go anything. and then if someone oes pat her when she is on my knee give her priase. not sure if thats workng as she is still doing it. Other then that she is really friendly with everyone, though I notice with strangers she keeps going behind my ankles then peeeping out before she gets confortable.She doenst do this with anyone else( wealso have a male JR thats about 18 months)

kerrysgold

How come she was taken away from her mother so early?

Dogs learn a lot of social skills from their mother and siblings so when they are taken away so early it can cause problems i.e. they hadn't finished their "education" so to speak.

I think you need to work on socializing her and maybe take her to training classes.

LegacyUser

Maggie,

You still have time for puppy socialisation course with Dog Training Ireand - dogtrainingireland.com. We brought our dog puppy there and they go through everything. Your puppy would meet lots of new people, dogs, learn some tricks, get used to different situations and mobile objects (fireworks, babies in buggies). It is a 4 week course - and well worth it.

B

Intothesea

It's a good thing you're onto this so quickly Maggie,
a seemingly little problem like this could escalate to
a 'fearful dog' scenario very quickly. 5 weeks is at
least 3 weeks too early to remove a pup from its
mother. Bite inhibition and rules on how to 'follow
the leader' are only really picked up by puppies
beyond 5 or 6 weeks.

I agree with the advice given so far, structured
socialisation is the way to go. A little trick I would
also use is the spray bottle, full of room-temperature
water. Sit calmly next to her with the nozzle about
6 inches away and at the first *hint* of a growl, spray
once to the top of the head. The shock factor will
knock her out of it. If you like throw in a calm-
sounding 'no' as you spray ('no' will come in handy
later on in training ). This is more or less how her
mother would have engineered a correction in
similar circumstances (if she didn't pick up the
lesson sufficiently initially).

Hope that helps

luckat

She's doing her job in protecting herself and you, Maggie, she's just doing it too well.

You're dealing with this well, but a couple of thoughts.

First thing I'd do is give her a treat as soon as anyone comes into the room. In the words (roughly) of Karen Pryor (my guru! founder of clicker training), if someone gave you $10 every time you saw a particular person, you'd begin to like that person!

Next, if she growls and there's no one around, make a gentle joke of it. Rock her with your hand and say "None of that growly!" and she'll hopefully give an embarrassed grin and stop.

She's only a puppy; make her aware that growling when there's no threat isn't acceptable, without making her feel as if she's a world-class criminal hunted by the FBI.

And when she's friendly and nice to family and friends when they approach you, give her a big treat and praise and petting. Lidl do some disgusting tripe treats for dogs that my dog *adores*. Sold under the name Gerodog.

(If you've a cat too, by the way, Aldi do some salmon sticks that my cat absolutely whores for.)

peasant

Intothesea wrote: »

A little trick I would
also use is the spray bottle, full of room-temperature
water. This is more or less how her
mother would have engineered a correction in
similar circumstances

luckat wrote: »

First thing I'd do is give her a treat as soon as anyone comes into the room. In the words (roughly) of Karen Pryor (my guru! founder of clicker training), if someone gave you $10 every time you saw a particular person, you'd begin to like that person!

With a dog that young and yet unspoiled by three hundred different training approaches, I firmly believe that you can achieve results without having to reach for artificial aides. Your voice, some firmness and consistency should be more than enough to get the message across.

I think you are on the right track when it comes to diagnosing the issue and also with treating it. But instead of taking the pup to kitchen when she disgresses, I'd just tell her a firm "no", brush her off and withdraw attention for a short while. Taking her to the kitchen just takes too long and too much handling (of her) to have the immediate effect. By the time she arrives in the kitchen, she's forgotten why she's been put there in the first place. Deal with the problem right there and then, while she is on your knee.
Also try and watch her and pinpoint the spot where she is juuuust about to start growling. A firm "no" right at that time has the biggest effect (followed by brushing off and ignoring, if she doesn't heed it).

As for water spray:

That should be reserved for really persistent misbehaviour on an older dog, if at all. It has quite a shock effect and is total overkill in this situation. (and I'm yet to see a bitch with puppies that carries a water bottle )

And as for treats:

Basically a good training aid, but I would recommend to use them sparingly and mostly as an aid to introduce and reward new training lessons. Don't give treats for everything and anything, or you will end up with a dog that sees you as a food dispenser and won't even lift an eyelid unless you wave a treat.

A young pup as yours is hard wired for co-operation, following and bonding. It'll try its best to find out what is wanted from it and to fit in to your family group. There is no need to cajole it (yet), some clear guidance is all it needs.

Keep the treats for later, when it's time to convince a thick-headed teenager that you and your training lessons are more intersting than whatever else is taking place.

Intothesea

I wouldn't make a joke out of growling, it is
not appropriate when 'top dog' is there and
would not be tolerated lightly. There are no
water bottles in nature, I'm told but a quick
spray to the head is as good as a nip to the
ear.

A pup taken this young hasn't really got a
concept of 'leader' (hence the growling issue
in the first place) and therefore tone of
voice is also a bad bet. With small physical
stimulus you can introduce one definite
voice-tone though.

The situation where the pup growls and is
taken away and ignored is a very confusing
one already - if anything she probably thinks
her growl is an order to the owner to clear up
and move her away.

OP one general statement I think would be
useful is that your pup is in need of a very
firm leader. If you project calm control over
situations she will have no need to panic
and growl. So far she's learned that her
growl means action, and she might not
yet understand that it's bad action, since
she's probably not too sure that you're the
boss.

For this reason I wouldn't recommend having
her on your knee, and to start basic training.
This will instill a comprehensive trust in you
as 'pack leader'.

Anyway, that's my more complete take on it,
hope it helps.

peasant

@ intothesea

In case you have overlooked this ...the pup in question is all of 14 weeks old.

At that age any revolutionary thoughts are still very far away. She is still easily led and impressed and bonding and integrating are the most important things on her agenda. No need for heavy artillery, all she needs is gentle but firm guidance.

This early in her life you don't want to be too harsh with her (firm, consistent, consequent, yes ...but not harsh). Her main objective at the moment (and the owner's) is to learn to understand and trust each other, not to dig trenches.

Gentle guidance is what the pup needs, not confrontation.


@the OP

Now is when you set the tone for later. By all means let her know what the rules are. Be firm, but be gentle. You want to gain her trust and confidence.

Correct her, but do not punish her. A good leader is always measured and proportionate in their response. You're dealing with a baby still, but one that will understand and remember when she has been unfairly/disproportionatly treated.

As I said ...you're setting the tone for the future now ...try and make it a fair and understanding one.

If you over-react now, she could either end up frightened, insecure and shy or turn into a confrontational "monster" later when her teenage phase starts ...neither of which is what you want.

Intothesea

There's nothing confrontational, rough
or untimely about a spray bottle. It's
a 'hands off' correction that comes out
of nowhere and makes a quick, painless
impression on a puppy (it's practically
useless with older dogs - but is unrequired
anyway because you have the advantage
of the dog's tonal understanding).

The OP can verify any of this in many
of the puppy-handling books available.

peasant

Intothesea wrote: »

There's nothing confrontational, rough
or untimely about a spray bottle. It's
a 'hands off' correction that comes out
of nowhere and makes a quick, painless
impression on a puppy (it's practically
useless with older dogs - but is unrequired
anyway because you have the advantage
of the dog's tonal understanding).

The OP can verify any of this in many
of the puppy-handling books available.

First off ...sorry @ the OP for veering slightly off topic

@intothesea

What kind of leader are you / what kind of leadership style are you proposing when you see the need for an artificial aide like a spray of water to train a little puppy?

Why would you want a "hands off correction" ? The pup is looking to you as to what the rules are, so the correction should come from you and the pup should be able to associate misdeed-correction-leadership.

"Hands off" type corrections are for behaviours where you want the dog not to do something even when you're not watching (like stealing food off a counter).

The puppy has to learn that good things come from you as well as corrections to accept you as a leader and your leadership. "Hands off" acts of god do not achieve this.

Plus I think you underestimate a pups capability to put two and two together and realise that that unpleasant wet splash did very well emmanate from your hands (via the water bottle).

Why complicate the issue and use all sorts of training aides when your own voice (and hands, if neccessary) will do the trick much better, more easily understandable to the dog and without delay.

Plus you've always got your hands and voice with you ...the water bottle may be in the next room.

Another thing with training aides is that the pup will learn to recognise them. So a water bottle in sight may prevent growling ...but what happens when the bottle isn't there?

Intothesea

Much as this is apparently off topic, it might
help other people think about their dog issues,
hopefully

Hands off correction is a way to influence
the puppy's behaviour without been seen
to make a physical move yourself. When
you're trying to build trust in a young dog,
this is a very positive move.

In this case using your hands is more invasive
and might be interpreted as a precursor to more
aggressive physical moves. In this way the bottle
is kinder than the nip or the tap on the head.

What kind of leader does that make me, or anyone
else going this commonsense route? a bloody good
one I think

I think you're overestimating the amount of sprays
a Jack Russell puppy is likely to need. About two
separate occasions of it, I would suspect. Nothing
drawn out, and probably not enough exposure for
the pup to 'get it' (I don't think it matters anyway).

The prime training/general behavioural influenceable
period extends to only 6 months. Basic behavioural
traits like this one have got to be solved, post haste.

peasant

These days there are about as many theories on training dogs as there are dogs themselves

I have no inclination to get into a discussion marathon about all of them right now.

I think the OP can make up her own mind which of these two contradicting views she prefers:

Hands off correction is a way to influence
the puppy's behaviour without been seen
to make a physical move yourself. When
you're trying to build trust in a young dog,
this is a very positive move.

versus

Why would you want a "hands off correction" ? The pup is looking to you as to what the rules are, so the correction should come from you and the pup should be able to associate misdeed-correction-leadership.

"Hands off" type corrections are for behaviours where you want the dog not to do something even when you're not watching (like stealing food off a counter).

The puppy has to learn that good things come from you as well as corrections to accept you as a leader and your leadership. "Hands off" acts of god do not achieve this

.



just one more thing:

The prime training/general behavioural influenceable
period extends to only 6 months. Basic behavioural
traits like this one have got to be solved, post haste.

I think you're mixing something up here.
During the first few weeks and months it is important to gently familiarise/socialise the pup with everything and anything in its environement so that it can move within its surroundings with confidence and trust.

Failure to do this will be hard to correct later and may lead to unwanted behaviour (like fear-agression) towards unfamiliar things / situations.

General dog behaviour though is influencable and correctable at any stage ...you can indeed teach an old dog new tricks.

Intothesea

Agreed. There is plenty the OP can think about
here, and tbh the best way to find your way
through the woods is with a professional person.

General dog behaviour though is influencable and correctable
at any stage ...you can indeed teach an old dog new tricks.

Something as fundamental as this will spiral out
of control very quickly if not dealt with with a
firm and direct hand. General dog behaviour is
correctable later but infinitely harder. I wouldn't
like to set up the OP for this option.

Over and out :pac:

peasant

Intothesea wrote: »

Something as fundamental as this will spiral out
of control very quickly if not dealt with with a
firm and direct hand. General dog behaviour is
correctable later but infinitely harder. I wouldn't
like to set up the OP for this option.
:

I think we both agree that a growling pup is not desirable and needs to be corrected. It is the "how" that we differ on.

But overall I wouldn't see any need to panic ...just keep at it, it will sink in.

over and out, too :pac:

maggie797

thanks for all your comments. This weekend I had a lot of family around so it was good for her to meet more people(she was initially petrified, but did calm down and get very friendly, I do think she is going through a fear period. Its funny what you say about the water bottle, I have an older JR male about a year and a half and they sometimes play fight in the garden, when they get to much I go for the garden hose and even when they see me walk towards it they spring apart!! they are really clever dogs.
The last time she growled (and it was quite fierce) was on friday and this time I just told everyone not to give her any attention at all and I turned my back on her. Then when I ws holding her and she was friendly I gave her loads of praise.
I will look at puppy trainng, I can see now why its important that pups arent too young when theya re taken from their mothers.