Ireland's second Lightning Detector

Danno

I've finally got round to putting the lightning data online. You can view it here: http://durrow.athost.net/lightning/

Now, a question for Snowbie!

How do I get the map backgrounds as clear as your own on http://www.irlweather.com/StormVue.html

I have tried JPG and currently using GIF files extensions

Snowbie

Good stuff Danno.

I used a file extension editor here to convert the JPG file To JPEG or BMP. BMP is large but gives the best quality but anyone on dial up viewing your site will have trouble loading the page.

So therefore JPEG has equal quality and is smaller file for faster uploading of page.

Danno

Got it Snowbie, cheers! The Windows Paint program does a bad job of file conversions.

Danno

Now, what is the next step with regards to triangulation?

Snowbie

Ideally 3 or more people with detectors covering our island.
The strikestar network and also the Netweather strikestar network are the triangulation programs that im apart of.
I recommend the Netweather program as Paul the developer is doing a deal that if you upload your lightning data by the way of a simple application called Syncom he will give a full subscription to the NW service. He just needs your lat/long and antenna offset.

Follow this link for more info

http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=lightning;sess=

This is the way i will go in the future with hosting our own triangulation detection on this island for much better accuracy here if we get more detectors going in this country.

As most of the detectors are based in the UK, it is worked off most of the online detectors from there using the majority of strikes in a certain region to accurately plot the sferic.Mine comes into play when the Celtic or Irish sea,Wales, and this country(eastern half) produce a storm. As there is little triangulation coverage for Ireland, most of my strikes dont plot and become an uncorrelated strike on the triangulation network. With now a second detector(yours), the accuracy and plot increases(for the locations above) mine and yours will plot better but not entirely as we are still limited detectors here.

Basically the more the merrier.

Danno

A west of Ireland one would be the business.

I will follow up on the NetWeather one Snowbie. I will post here on any progress made.

By the way, do Met Eireann have any detectors?

Snowbie

Danno wrote: »

By the way, do Met Eireann have any detectors?

Apparently not as covered before [thread=2054975361]in this thread[/thread]

Danno

Intresting read Snowbie! Here's hoping for a good few storms over the summer to get the calibrating in and done.

I am surprised that there is nothing coming from that clump over Limerick/Tipp tonight.

Deep Easterly

Congratulations Danno. Fantastic to have some lightning data along with Snowbies. Hope it goes well.:)

aidan_dunne

Fair play, Danno! Great to have a second detector for this country online (and particularly for us here in Laois and the surrounding areas! ). The combination of you and Snowbie's detectors should go a long way to helping us track storms more accurately in this country.

Now if we could just get a few more detectors covering the west, south and north we'd be well sorted! :D

Deep Easterly

Snowbie wrote:

Ideally 3 or more people with detectors covering our island.

Danno wrote: »

A west of Ireland one would be the business.

I don't know very much about lightning dectectors. But if I was to get one like what you both have here would it work in unison with your own lightning dectectors to allow for greater accuracy of strikes when they occur around the country? Or would it transmit data seperately?. As I am hoping to get set up with a Davis in Autumn, anything to help to for greater coverage I will do. So should I "go the whole hog"?

Danno

Weird, I repled to this thread earlier and my post vanished!

Here it goes again anyways!
The lightning detectors broadcast data seperately. However, StrikestarUK which Snowbie links to in post #5 offers free membership to NetweatherTV in return for data gathered. Snowbie can correct me if I am wrong on this - As far as I can make out they gather all the data and co-ordinate it on to a map. In addition to this, you get to see everyone else's data live and you then can make adjustments to your own ranging. They also provide hi resolution rainfall radar (which Snowbie often puts up screenshots of during snow season) every 15 minutes.

I have signed up for it myself and awaiting confirmation email from Netweather.

The equipment is as follows:
http://www.provantage.com/boltek-stormtrackerpci~7BOLT001.htm <<< currently works out at €300 approx add €50 approx for Duty.
The Software is as follows:
http://astrogenic.com/products.html <<< Nexstorm approx €125
http://astrogenic.com/cvmmap.html <<< Map of NW Europe centred on your house approx €34

So all in all around €500-€550 to get lightning detector! As someone else said elsewhere, it's an expensive hobby! But while the dollar is weak it's a good time to get the stuff.

With regards to the Davis, since the dollar has got so weak recently, some USA merchants are refusing to ship to the EU. I don't currently know of any merchants shipping at present.

Snowbie

Danno has got it spot on there.

Each detector works separately, whether a neighbour or in a separate county has one installed.
The triangulation is different and more accurate.

A separate detector will need to be configured against topography, salt water and local interference.This is accurate to within 10Miles of a single CG strike(accuracy improving the more intense a storm) but take years to do it as you need moderate storms to calibrate.

The triangulated detector work in unison with other detectors with data being uploaded to a single server and displayed on a map.

EG: Lets say there is 4 detectors in each corner of Ireland uploading data to a single server in this country and there is a storm in the Celtic sea. 2 of the detectors have the storm positioned perfect on their own PC monitor using the nexstorm software while the other 2 are ranging it too close or to far away but the key is,the bearing is right.
The triangulation will correct adjustment in distance and will display it on the triangulated map to less than 1Mile of the CG strike even if your own software is still positioning it closer or further away, it is still using your data plus several others to plot much more accurately.This is now good for calibrating your detector outside of triangulating network for future storms.

Now the strikestar programs I'm with don't display for Ireland as I'm the most western detector (Danno should be online soon) so there is an elimination of my strikes(not all though, Irish sea are fine).
Why? because there is so many Brits with detectors dispersed across the UK that the most southern/eastern triangulated ones don't see my strikes beyond the *200Mile boundary* and class it as noise or uncorrelated strike, but i see theres and my data is useful for them.

*200 mile boundary is when the accuracy of any detector including triangulation subsides due to the curvature of the earth. Detectors thats within 200 Miles of each other extends the reach, basically the more the merrier for triangulating.

There is only one detector within 200 miles of me and its in Co.Laois.;)
So when Danno is online triangulating, most of the UK(west and central UK) will now trust my strikes as a second detector has also detected. With more detectors on this island the southern and eastern UK detectors will now start to plot Ireland strikes on triangulation as there is many more ears listening.
All of UK and Ireland will then be covered on an accurate lightning detection network(LDN).

Danno

Danno wrote: »

By the way, do Met Eireann have any detectors?

According to this they do.

and a new lightning detection system was installed as part of the UK Met Office global network.

Snowbie

Woot! now they have Ireland's third lightning detector.

new lightning detection system

Meaning what? Seperate detector or a upgraded triangulated system still using feeds from UKMO?

Snowbie

Lol.... BUT...

to be pedantic,thats the 2007 report so the thread title should be changed as it is Danno that has the third lightning detector

Snowbie wrote: »

Woot! now they have Ireland's third lightning detector.

Meaning what? Seperate detector or a upgraded triangulated system using feeds from UKMO?

I'd read that to mean they have a detector.

Slightly off topic but thats an interesting report-550 stations (some of which are NRA no doubt but still)

Mothman-have you a map of locations because thats a lot more extensive than I thought.

The Division continued to maintain and collect data from 550 climatological and rainfall stations, assisted by co-operating agencies and private individuals. This data, along with data from Met Éireann’s own stations, was quality-controlled and made available in the climatological database. About half of the stations in the observing networks were visited by Met Éireann inspectors during 2007.

Regarding the lightning again and thinking about the phrasing in that report-how else could they say they have installed a lightning detection system as part of the UKMO global network if they haven't had a detector installed.
A feed of detection done elsewhere doesn't triangulate.

It would be a bit like me saying I've had radar installed(implying radar equipment) because I have net weather access.

Snowbie

Deleted User wrote: »

Lol.... BUT...

to be pedantic,thats the 2007 report so the thread title should be changed as it is Danno that has the third lightning detector :DI'd read that to mean they have a detector.

Well at least Danno told us about his detector;):)

Deleted User wrote: »

Regarding the lightning again and thinking about the phrasing in that report-how else could they say they have installed a lightning detection system as part of the UKMO global network if they haven't had a detector installed.

It would be a bit like me saying I've had radar installed(implying radar equipment) because I have net weather access.

Its all very secretive. As you quote the 2007 report and here we half way through 2008 and we are only knowing now

It seems to me that the detection system they where using was from a single source feed from the then Bracknell centre. I think the HQ has moved more to the SE of UK now.

How the Met.IE and UKMO detects lightning is fully beyond me.
What system they use is unknown?
Why have so many people purchased lightning detectors and a triangulated system been set up independantly? Cause the Met organisations do not like to share their lightning data

So now our own Met apparently has its own detector, well welcome to the modern era i'd say and lets share the data please.

Danno

Slightly off topic, but...

http://www.environ.ie/en/publications/DoeAnnualReport2007/part1/chapter6/technical-support.html wrote:

An additional automatic weather station (AWS) was installed at Gurteen Agricultural College, Co. Tipperary...

That is interesting, another station at Cahir. I wonder will it be added to http://www.met.ie/latest/reports.asp anytime soon?


Back on topic...

http://www.environ.ie/en/publications/DoeAnnualReport2007/part1/chapter6/technical-support.html wrote:

The seismological facilities at the Valentia Observatory were upgraded in cooperation with the Dublin Institute of Advanced Studies, and a new lightning detection system was installed as part of the UK Met Office global network...

Is it me, or does that imply that their detector is in Valentia? With East Galway/SE Mayo having the most thunderstorms per annum here, why did they not install this at Knock or Claremorris? With the flat lands there, surely detection would be less hindered by topograpghy?

I'd imagine it's just bad wording...
It's written by civil servants don't ya know.. :pac::pac:

Danno

Any way of finding out for sure?

Deep Easterly

Danno wrote: »

Weird, I repled to this thread earlier and my post vanished!

Here it goes again anyways!
The lightning detectors broadcast data seperately. However, StrikestarUK which Snowbie links to in post #5 offers free membership to NetweatherTV in return for data gathered. Snowbie can correct me if I am wrong on this - As far as I can make out they gather all the data and co-ordinate it on to a map. In addition to this, you get to see everyone else's data live and you then can make adjustments to your own ranging. They also provide hi resolution rainfall radar (which Snowbie often puts up screenshots of during snow season) every 15 minutes.

I have signed up for it myself and awaiting confirmation email from Netweather.

The equipment is as follows:
http://www.provantage.com/boltek-stormtrackerpci~7BOLT001.htm <<< currently works out at €300 approx add €50 approx for Duty.
The Software is as follows:
http://astrogenic.com/products.html <<< Nexstorm approx €125
http://astrogenic.com/cvmmap.html <<< Map of NW Europe centred on your house approx €34

So all in all around €500-€550 to get lightning detector! As someone else said elsewhere, it's an expensive hobby! But while the dollar is weak it's a good time to get the stuff.

With regards to the Davis, since the dollar has got so weak recently, some USA merchants are refusing to ship to the EU. I don't currently know of any merchants shipping at present.

Thunder mad Snowbie wrote:

Danno has got it spot on there.

Each detector works separately, whether a neighbour or in a separate county has one installed.
The triangulation is different and more accurate.

A separate detector will need to be configured against topography, salt water and local interference.This is accurate to within 10Miles of a single CG strike(accuracy improving the more intense a storm) but take years to do it as you need moderate storms to calibrate.

The triangulated detector work in unison with other detectors with data being uploaded to a single server and displayed on a map.

EG: Lets say there is 4 detectors in each corner of Ireland uploading data to a single server in this country and there is a storm in the Celtic sea. 2 of the detectors have the storm positioned perfect on their own PC monitor using the nexstorm software while the other 2 are ranging it too close or to far away but the key is,the bearing is right.
The triangulation will correct adjustment in distance and will display it on the triangulated map to less than 1Mile of the CG strike even if your own software is still positioning it closer or further away, it is still using your data plus several others to plot much more accurately.This is now good for calibrating your detector outside of triangulating network for future storms.

Now the strikestar programs I'm with don't display for Ireland as I'm the most western detector (Danno should be online soon) so there is an elimination of my strikes(not all though, Irish sea are fine).
Why? because there is so many Brits with detectors dispersed across the UK that the most southern/eastern triangulated ones don't see my strikes beyond the *200Mile boundary* and class it as noise or uncorrelated strike, but i see theres and my data is useful for them.

*200 mile boundary is when the accuracy of any detector including triangulation subsides due to the curvature of the earth. Detectors thats within 200 Miles of each other extends the reach, basically the more the merrier for triangulating.

There is only one detector within 200 miles of me and its in Co.Laois.
So when Danno is online triangulating, most of the UK(west and central UK) will now trust my strikes as a second detector has also detected. With more detectors on this island the southern and eastern UK detectors will now start to plot Ireland strikes on triangulation as there is many more ears listening.
All of UK and Ireland will then be covered on an accurate lightning detection network(LDN).

Cheers for the info guys. It is a start anyway, if a little hard to digest!:o. I have noticed Snowbie that sometimes on your dectector that if there is a storm in the midlands or down around Clare that it will sometimes show strikes over me as well ( Dunmore region of Tuam in North Galway) when as usual, there is none in the actual!. Is this to do with the curvature problem? I would assume based on that that Danno's dectector would perhaps cover the south Connacht area more precisely? But then, there would be a number of hills between me and him, when between Dublin and Galway there would be relatively few. It is all so complicated!!!

Danno & Snowbie, As I will be living (part time) once again in Galway city from Sept onwards, where would you recommened I place the dectector for a more "stable" dectection for the western/north midland region, here or the city? Cheers.

Danno

Your home place would be best, less interferance.

Supercell

Didn't one of the wireless forum guys have a detector in the past in Waterford or Wexford, anyone know what happened to that?

Snowbie

Thats right Bkehoe i think had one but dont know which one.

Supercell

Thats the one Snowbie, wonder why he took it down?

Snowbie

Deep Easterly wrote: »

Cheers for the info guys. It is a start anyway, if a little hard to digest!:o. I have noticed Snowbie that sometimes on your dectector that if there is a storm in the midlands or down around Clare that it will sometimes show strikes over me as well ( Dunmore region of Tuam in North Galway) when as usual, there is none in the actual!. Is this to do with the curvature problem?

No not really. It would bring me back to an earlier point when the more intense a storm the better the accuracy. After the first strike the antanna will home in on the approx origin. One strike is useless unless its in Dublin when there is no problem finding the distance due to its proximity to me.

I would assume based on that that Danno's dectector would perhaps cover the south Connacht area more precisely?

Yes, for sure.

But then, there would be a number of hills between me and him, when between Dublin and Galway there would be relatively few. It is all so complicated!!!

Complicated at first yes but then again i am using detectors 5 years. The nexstorm software being released in newer versions are making the detectors much more accurate but are very slow in coming but however the triangulation is much more reliable for the obvious reasons.

Danno & Snowbie, As I will be living (part time) once again in Galway city from Sept onwards, where would you recommened I place the dectector for a more "stable" dectection for the western/north midland region, here or the city? Cheers.

Second Danno on this for where you are atm.:)

Supercell

A detector in Galway would be nice, that part of the country seems to have the highest incidence of electrical storms in Ireland, what you reckon "Thunder mad" one?

Deep Easterly

Supercell wrote: »

A detector in Galway would be nice, that part of the country seems to have the highest incidence of electrical storms in Ireland,

Tell me again and again. Only 2 storms this year, and one was pretty ****e. I would think that Shannon through to the South East would have the most storms within an average year due to being more south.

Cheers Snowbie 'n' Danno for info again. I will have ye pestered when the time comes.

Snowbie

Supercell wrote: »

A detector in Galway would be nice, that part of the country seems to have the highest incidence of electrical storms in Ireland, what you reckon "Thunder mad" one?

i dont know whether to go south for the snow or west for the storms

Supercell

I reckon a house as high as you can get around here would do the trick.
Wonder if i can get broadband there and work from home !