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Name the shops and restaurants in the Dublin Laser card fraud?

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    #2
    Collie D
    Registered Users Posts: 11,344 ✭✭✭✭Collie D


    DennisSabre wrote: »
    As the tilte says, as consumers, should we be entilted to know where this happened? In case anyone doesn't know what I'm on about, check out:

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhgbcweycwkf/

    Seems to be very little proof of these shop/restaurant workers being offered "up to €10,000". Naming and shaming could be entering libellous territory


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    #3
    Gillo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭Gillo


    It'd also be unfair for the shop to get a bad name because one one bad employee, that said anyone involved in this sort of racket is nothing but an outright scumbag. (somehow feel I'm about to get some abusive replies)


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    #4
    DennisSabre
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭DennisSabre


    Fair points. Let's see how this story evolves in the media and I wonder just how widespread it really is? I could understand if a card was taken out of sight and skimmed because this actually happened to a friend of mine but most transactions take place in your presence so this means that they possibly used something attached to the shop's system? It would seem quite difficult to do without their colleages/managers noticing. The first Laser card that I got actually had my photo on it which I thought was a good idea. Maybe it's time to use something like fingerprint recognition instead of PIN numbers? Or how about a system where you receive a text alert each time your card is used? Just wondering how can card transactions be made more secure?


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    #5
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    DennisSabre wrote: »
    Fair points. Let's see how this story evolves in the media and I wonder just how widespread it really is? I could understand if a card was taken out of sight and skimmed because this actually happened to a friend of mine but most transactions take place in your presence so this means that they possibly used something attached to the shop's system? It would seem quite difficult to do without their colleages/managers noticing. The first Laser card that I got actually had my photo on it which I thought was a good idea. Maybe it's time to use something like fingerprint recognition instead of PIN numbers? Or how about a system where you receive a text alert each time your card is used? Just wondering how can card transactions be made more secure?


    The obvious one is COVER THE KEPAD WITH YOUR HAND WHEN YOU ENTER YOUR PIN.The amount of people you see yacking away to somebody beside them when entering thier pin either in a shop or atm is unbeleivable.


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    #6
    cast_iron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭cast_iron


    Agreed. In any case, the bank protects you from fraud of this sort, so the consumer doesn't really suffer financially.


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    #7
    DennisSabre
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭DennisSabre


    Degsy wrote: »
    The obvious one is COVER THE KEPAD WITH YOUR HAND WHEN YOU ENTER YOUR PIN.The amount of people you see yacking away to somebody beside them when entering thier pin either in a shop or atm is unbeleivable.

    Totally agree with you but not everyone is like us. A nifty little security feature would be to use a touch screen (with a narrow angle viewing range!) for entering the PIN so that the numbers could be randomly placed in different positions every time it's used rather than the regular and predictable rows on the button systems.

    And the consumer may not suffer financially but it's a rather unpleasant experience.


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    #8
    i71jskz5xu42pb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭i71jskz5xu42pb


    cast_iron wrote: »
    Agreed. In any case, the bank protects you from fraud of this sort, so the consumer doesn't really suffer financially.

    Wrong on two accounts
    1. If somebody withdraws money using your PIN and you can't prove to the bank that you did not make the withdrawal I doubt the bank will refund you. The only saving grace in this situation is that it is easy enough to prove that you were in Ireland at the time.
    2. Even if that was not the case the costs of fraud are baked into bank costs. The consumer is paying for it at the end of the day one way or another.


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    #9
    cast_iron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭cast_iron


    Finnley Odd Pool wrote: »
    Wrong on two accounts
    1. If somebody withdraws money using your PIN and you can't prove to the bank that you did not make the withdrawal I doubt the bank will refund you. The only saving grace in this situation is that it is easy enough to prove that you were in Ireland at the time.
    I'm not so sure the location is that relevant. In my experience, all the "fraudulent" transactions on my account were committed in Ireland and were not for a huge amount either, but it was the bank who spotted it - not me - and they had no bother shouldering the cost.

    An element of practicality comes into it here - if the transaction can't reasonably be tied to me, then I shouldn't be responsible for the fraud. Of course, the bank may question my credibility in such a case, and I may have some questions to answer..
    Finnley Odd Pool wrote: »
    1. Even if that was not the case the costs of fraud are baked into bank costs. The consumer is paying for it at the end of the day one way or another.
    Correct. I was trying to say that if someone steals €1000 thorough this type of fraud, then they wouldn't have to fork out €1000 as a result; the bank shoulders this cost.
    Of course, it's not a victimless fraud. Like illegal cable boxes, insurance fraud, etc., the bulk of the innocent customers will pay in the end. In these cases, I think the banks may be insured against this fraud, so may not endure the entire cost of the theft.


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    #10
    Gillo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭Gillo


    cast_iron wrote: »
    I think the banks may be insured against this fraud, so may not endure the entire cost of the theft.

    Yes, but the more they claim back , they higher their premium gets the following year resulting in increase bank charges to cover the banks increased operating costs. At the end of the day it's always going to be the consumer who suffers.


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    #11
    randylonghorn
    Registered Users Posts: 29,509 ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    DennisSabre wrote: »
    Or how about a system where you receive a text alert each time your card is used?
    DennisSabre wrote: »
    A nifty little security feature would be to use a touch screen (with a narrow angle viewing range!) for entering the PIN so that the numbers could be randomly placed in different positions every time it's used rather than the regular and predictable rows on the button systems.
    Both good ideas, actually. You may have a future as a banking security consultant, Dennis!


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    #12
    Corruptedmorals
    Registered Users Posts: 4,194 ✭✭✭Corruptedmorals


    A lot of shops use the same card readers, ingenico I think, which, if you're the shop assistant, already have a guard so you can't see the customer entering the pin anyway, though lots of people will still shield it. The ones where the shop assistant has to use the reader as well, they'd be much easier to memorise someone's pin off. I'd like to know the shops in question too, although if one employee brings down the shops name, that'd be unfair.


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