Duff's worrying loss of form

Denis Irwin

Had a stinker of a game today for Ireland in a Friendly match against a local Portugeuse side Portimonese and was subbed at half time. Ireland played much better in the 2nd half and Keogh who came on for him made an immediate impact and got the equalising goal. Is this the End of Duffer ?

Galvasean

He's been a spent force for a while now IMO. He just can't get his fitness levels up for any more than a couple of games. I doubt will ever see him at his blistering best again.

How did the game finish up?

Seaneh

The equaliser, after halftime, against a part time team?

WTF?

mike65

El Trap now knows the scale of the job!

Nah, its hardly the game to judge many on - brains and body are on holliday I expect.

Mike.

grames_bond

was 1-1 the final score?! sack the manager!!

Denis Irwin

It finished 1-1 although Sean Scannell the young lad from Crystal Palace was very unlucky not to get the winner when he had a goal bound header cleared off the line.

gosplan

He's been off the pace since he's come back but I wouldn't rule him out yet.

If he stays fit through preseason, we'll find out one way or the other.

hunter164

He's finished........

shane86

tbh only drawing against some Portugese team Ive never even heard of is quite shocking

Mad_Max

bit harsh unless you've seen the game. They might well have hammered the team just couldn't score (however unlikely it might be )

Im sure trap just wanted to stretch them out. Sure remember staunton won his first game against a good team and look how that turned out

allybhoy

Ah lads come on, cool the beans. Theyre on holidays after all. Let The Trapster work his magic over the next few weeks whilst he gets to know the squad, especially the senior members. You can be sure he is going to work the socks off the back four and get them organised, the Serbia Game will maybe give an indication of how he's getting on, maybe.

Predhead

Am the only one not surprised by Duff? When people were tipping him to be the next Giggs etc I said, in two seasons time he'll be finished. He's just not got what it takes to make the step up from good to really good IMO.

allybhoy

Ah come on now, when he first went to Chelsea he was brilliant, or the 2002 world cup where he was clearly our best player. You never see him just run at defenders anymore, I know youtube can make a great compilation out of Gary Breen but just look at some of the videos of him on there and you wonder what has happend. I think he has lost his confidence after a couple of terrible injuries, and hopefully he can get back to his best for this campaign. With a club manger like Keegan who you think would be urging him to get forward and commit defenders rather than Big Sam who was probably more interested in him chasing back, he might just find a bit of form.

darkman2

The Portuguese side deserved to win that game. Allowances can be made for the number of our best players missing but we really should be hammering a second division Portuguese side..........having said that its not overly important anyway. Serbia on Saturday will offer more insight. I hope this does not go embarrasingly wrong. We have no more excuses.

As for Duff - I say again - Newcastle brought him down to their level. No good player that goes to Newcastle ever comes out as good as they were before. I dont know what it is with that club.

allybhoy

Were did yis watch the match lads? Like are yis over in Portugal?

Slash/ED

The biggest shame about Duffs career is we wasted having him in his absolute prime by having McCarthy in charged who was somehow determined to make him a striker when he was one of the best left wingers in european football at the time and hjim and Keane blatantly could not and would not work together up front...

Predhead

allybhoy wrote: »

Ah come on now, when he first went to Chelsea he was brilliant, or the 2002 world cup where he was clearly our best player. You never see him just run at defenders anymore, I know youtube can make a great compilation out of Gary Breen but just look at some of the videos of him on there and you wonder what has happend. I think he has lost his confidence after a couple of terrible injuries, and hopefully he can get back to his best for this campaign. With a club manger like Keegan who you think would be urging him to get forward and commit defenders rather than Big Sam who was probably more interested in him chasing back, he might just find a bit of form.

Yeah I meant around that time when he went to Chelsea, I knew you wouldn't be able to keep up his form. I don't know what it was, to me he always seemed like he'd slow down an awful lot and continue to be average for the rest of his career.

Obviously of late he's been unfortunate with injuries and yes, Sam wouldn't have been his favourite manager to play under, but as I said, I reckon he'll just be average again. He might have an other good season or two left in him. Let's see. Hope I'm wrong though, he's a very likable guy.

Sqaull20

He's grown to his physical peak.

Hunger, aggression and pace have now declined, age and injury will take their toll, and like other footballers he'll increasing have to rely on guile, experience and brains........Oh dear

allybhoy

Slash/ED wrote: »

The biggest shame about Duffs career is we wasted having him in his absolute prime by having McCarthy in charged who was somehow determined to make him a striker when he was one of the best left wingers in european football at the time and hjim and Keane blatantly could not and would not work together up front...

Well it wasnt like we had Rooney sitting on the bench, we had Quinn, Connolly and Morrisson. Hardly world stage strikers. Quinny was good for a late substitution and a route 1 situation but thats about it

Slash/ED

Duff and Keane was even statistically speaking the worst strike force out of that whole combination, though. Their goal record together would shock people, I forget what it is, but something along the lines of 3 in 20 or something. Our best form was always with Duff in his natural positon, you should build your team around your best players in their most effective positions

Predhead

Also that Ireland team played very wide, with Duff having to drift out left and only really leaving Keane in the centre at times...just didn't work and the other lads weren't supportive enough.

CHD

Predhead wrote: »

Am the only one not surprised by Duff? When people were tipping him to be the next Giggs etc I said, in two seasons time he'll be finished. He's just not got what it takes to make the step up from good to really good IMO.

could you tell me who will win the league next year, be top goalscorer and who will win eurovision!!

tdv

Your only worried about his form now? He's been **** for the last 3 years.

And I'm the only who thinks we don't have a hope in hell of making it to South Africa? Can anyone name 3 decent outfield players we have & who have performed well for us in the last few years?

Predhead

chdpoker wrote: »

could you tell me who will win the league next year, be top goalscorer and who will win eurovision!!

Man Utd, Torres and Zig & Zag

Pigman II

At least we got the away goal. I reckon we can take them at Croker in the return leg.

thusspakeblixa

The Mail today reported he was a Spurs and Portsmouth target.
I honestly don't know why he would be.

LuckyLloyd

Duff is a write off. Has been for the past two seasons. Meh, part of being a great player is being able to withstand the physical and mental demands of keeping in shape and producing week in, week out for years. He has tailed off dramatically since he left Chelsea in terms of maintaining fitness and avoiding injury. And when he does play now he has clearly lost a lot in terms of pace and acceleration - and considering that he was a dynamic winger who's strength was beating the first man and getting behind defenses - it isn't hard to understand why he is a shadow of what he was circa 2002 - 2003.

It is unfortunate and frustrating because when we got knocked out of the 2002 WC the idea that we could build around long productive international futures for Duff and Robbie Keane was the stuff that we were supposed to be optimistic about. It hasn't happened for Duff - but there are many players who regress as they move through their mid to late twenties due to injury; personal problems; the wrong transfer; lack of confidence etc, etc, etc. Harry Kewell anyone?

Not that it is Duff's fault of course. Having physical problems and constantly picking up injuries is probably beyond his control.

However, when Greece won the European Championships they did it without having a player to compare with the Damien Duff who terrorized Spain in the 2002 WC. The emergence of Stephen Hunt over the past two seasons makes up for the loss in many ways. Yeah, he's no Duff on a good day - but he can beat players and put in a decent ball - and he takes up good creative positions and can finish when he gets a chance. He makes for a positive replacement on the left hand side.

Ultimately, our chances of qualifying for the next world cup will depend upon us maximizing the talents at our disposal to their fullest. Under Staunton we lacked the synergy that was a feature of successful Irish teams and we suffered laughable decisions in terms of player selection and tactical approaches. Duff or no Duff, I am confident that Trappatoni will have a good eye for properly assessing the fit and motivated players he has to select from - and get us out on the field being organized, disciplined and playing as a team. After that, the rest should fall into place. Scotland went close to qualifying for Euro 2008 without much more than we have in terms of playing personnel. We aren't as far off progressing as the Staunton era would suggest.

allybhoy

tdv wrote: »

And I'm the only who thinks we don't have a hope in hell of making it to South Africa? Can anyone name 3 decent outfield players we have & who have performed well for us in the last few years?

Hunty,Keane,Dunne,Carsley,Finnan.
Here's an idea bud, why dont you try and get behind the team and support them rather than bashing them and hoping they do bad and dont qualify just to prove something you said on a fourm right.

Sorry for having a go but I play ball with a few lads who more or less dont support their own country because they havnt been playing well for the last few years. Isnt that the point of being a true supporter? Support them through the bad times and the good. Because im sure if we do qualify (and IMO we have every chance) every fool that says "were brutal" will be waving the plastic hammers and singing Ole Ole.

Great Post Loyd BTW

SantryRed

He's been nothing since he dislocated his shoulder when playing for Chelsea. Only gone down hill since then.

tdv

allybhoy wrote: »

Hunty,Keane,Dunne,Carsley,Finnan.
Here's an idea bud, why dont you try and get behind the team and support them rather than bashing them and hoping they do bad and dont qualify just to prove something you said on a fourm right.

Sorry for having a go but I play ball with a few lads who more or less dont support their own country because they havnt been playing well for the last few years. Isnt that the point of being a true supporter? Support them through the bad times and the good. Because im sure if we do qualify (and IMO we have every chance) every fool that says "were brutal" will be waving the plastic hammers and singing Ole Ole.

Great Post Loyd BTW

I'm not trying to have a go I'm being realistic. Sure keane was in great form for Spurs through out the Euro 2008 campaing. But when was the last time he put in a real solid performance when it mattered for Ireland?

Finnan can't get into the Liverpool team at the moment & announced his retirment from International football a while ago anyway.

I think Steven Ireland is our best player & he might not even play for us. Which would be a real shame if he didnt because he could be a legend for us. But the state the FAI has us in at the moment I could understand him not wanting to play.

And as for Trapattoni there's only one reason he's here & thats money. No self-respecting manager would take this job unless he was being paid some ridiculous amount of money.

The whole thing is just a freak show.

Sorry if I bummed anyone out. But we deserve better than what were getting.

CHD

tdv wrote: »

The whole thing is just a freak show.

But we deserve better than what were getting.

Explain?!

allybhoy

Listen dude I hate the FAI as much as the next fella but at the end of the day IMO they have pulled off a minor miracle with appointing Trap and Tardelli and sometimes you just have to say fair play.

You say he's only here for the money, I seriously doubt it, He's 69, what does he want with a load of money? Is he going to buy a Ferrari, no. At the end of the day, the man lives for football, he's the most successful club coach in the history of Italy. Its not like he's short of a few quid, and he is on nowhere near the money that the likes of Capello is on. He lives for success, he has been successful (with maybe the odd exception) at every club he has managed. If you dont want Trap who did u want? EL TEL? John Aldridge? Billy Davies?

Finnan and Ireland will return, I have no doubt about that. I mean Dean Kiely came back and he swore he would never play for us again, and he probably knows that he will be lucky to get another couple of caps with Givo and possibly even Paddy Kenny ahead of him, In a recent interview he said "When I was asked before about Giovanni's appointment, I said that as a player, I would be buzzing if I turned up for traiining and he was there. Thats the status of the man, That's his legend"

I also take exception at the fact that you say "No self-respecting manager would take this job" What do you mean by this? Our preferred starting 11 would compromise of all premiership players, apart from the Reading boys. And not just premiership players, Given,Dunne,Keane,Ireland,Stephen Reid, Mcgeady would get into most teams. We also have up and coming exciting players, James Mccarthy, Andy Keogh etc.

But the players aside, I believe Trappatoni will bring cohesion\structure and ressiliance to the side, every man will be sure of his importance and his task when he walks across the line. And its the sum of the parts that will hopefully make us into a hard to beat team. I dont have to mention Greece, ah but i will!

Another thing, I wouldnt single out Keano during our last campaign. Does the fact that he was on fire for Spurs but brutal for Ireland not point to the manager and the team setup. We were like headless chickens under Stan, I also think (as im sure most supporters do) that Dunne should be made captain. I doubt Robbie would mind too much because theyre good mates, and I believe it would be benificial to both the Honey Monster and Keane. It would help Robbie concentrate on his own game and maybe stop him drifting back to try and help out when were not doing so great

LuckyLloyd

tdv wrote: »

Finnan can't get into the Liverpool team at the moment

Have a check of how many games and minutes he played this year. Compare it to how many games and minutes Javier Mascherano played. Then consider that he struggled with a few injuries after the break. Then try to post things that are factually correct going forward.

_blank_

Duff has been shíte for Ireland since WC02, that's six years ago.

This isn't a "loss of form" in any shape of form.

Predhead

tdv wrote: »

I'm not trying to have a go I'm being realistic. Sure keane was in great form for Spurs through out the Euro 2008 campaing. But when was the last time he put in a real solid performance when it mattered for Ireland?

Finnan can't get into the Liverpool team at the moment & announced his retirment from International football a while ago anyway.

I think Steven Ireland is our best player & he might not even play for us. Which would be a real shame if he didnt because he could be a legend for us. But the state the FAI has us in at the moment I could understand him not wanting to play.

And as for Trapattoni there's only one reason he's here & thats money. No self-respecting manager would take this job unless he was being paid some ridiculous amount of money.

The whole thing is just a freak show.

Sorry if I bummed anyone out. But we deserve better than what were getting.

Better than the Trapp?! I don't think so. Or better performances from the team? That'll come with Trappatoni. First things first is to shore up the defence, if we can be hard to beat again then we can/will go from there.

iregk

Ok at the fear of being torn apart again I said this about a year ago now and got battered from one end of boards to the other.

Its always been my opinion that Duff was the most over rated player to possibly ever play for Ireland. He was at best average who had a couple of good months nothing more and is now not off form. He is where he should be.

Even Darren Huckerbe had a good season or two.

Predhead

iregk wrote: »

Ok at the fear of being torn apart again I said this about a year ago now and got battered from one end of boards to the other.

Its always been my opinion that Duff was the most over rated player to possibly ever play for Ireland. He was at best average who had a couple of good months nothing more and is now not off form. He is where he should be.

Even Darren Huckerbe had a good season or two.

I agree to a certain extent. Always thought he was overrated.

But c'mon he's better than Darren Huckerby!!! :eek:

gosplan

tdv wrote: »

Your only worried about his form now? He's been **** for the last 3 years.

And I'm the only who thinks we don't have a hope in hell of making it to South Africa? Can anyone name 3 decent outfield players we have & who have performed well for us in the last few years?

Nobody's performed well for Ireland in the last three years - that's why we've spent a load on a good manager.

However:

Birmingham, player of the year - Kelly
Man City, player of the year - Dunne
Spurs, player of the year - Keane
Reading, player of the year - Hunt
Celtic, player of the year - McEddie(arf!)
Man U, player of the year - O'Shea*

Add to that the fact that Andy Reid was probably the best for Sunderland behind Jones(even though he only got a few games), and we've got the players that have been performing well at a high level. They didn't perfrom well for Stan because, well, no-one could.

I mean we only need to finish second in the group. Beating Bulgaria is possible.


*NOT!

Slash/ED

Whatever about Duff now, there's no denying the man was a genius for two seasons. He had the potential to do it all, people forget how good he actually was.

eirebhoy

DesF wrote: »

Duff has been shíte for Ireland since WC02, that's six years ago..

You're more stubborn than I am. I already told you the games he has been fantastic in since 2002. Loads of games. We had this debate before but it still surprises me how you ignore the truth so much when it suits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY0y5IEL_pE

Not many of the above clips are pre-2002 and he was consistently superb at his best. For a few years he didn't know what a bad game was. Pre-2002 he wasn't great for Ireland. Since then he's been very, very good overall. 02-05 were his best years and if he lost possession he must have won a foul because it was almost impossible to get the ball off him. His close control in those clips is unbelievable. Messi would be proud of that run against Italy, the ball was stuck to his feet.

Charlie

Word around the Toon is that Duff is to be sold and replaced by Turkish Ace Arda Turan. He's supposedly already sold his Northumberland home, so maybe a move to the Mackems is off the cards.

I could see him moving back to Blackburn tbh.

sharkDawg

charlie mchugh wrote: »

I could see him moving back to Blackburn tbh.

Unfortunately I don't think he is near good enough for Blackburn anymore, I'd say he'll be lucky to get one of the promoted sides.

estebancambias

I don't care if Duff is playing for Fash FC. As long as he plays like he did in his last game against Slovakia then he is still a pivotal point of our team, and perhaps not world class(like he has been), but a very good player.

Where is this he hasn't played well for Ireland since 2002 coming from?