RTE's Prime Time - Shooting/licensing to be featured Tuesday night...

patbundy

Sparks wrote: »

Should the day ever arrive that we get a group like either of those two collections of nutjobs, I'll happily take an angle grinder to all the bits of my firearms that are left, dump the lot in a bucket in front of my local F.O. and run as far and as fast away from the sport as my little legs will carry me, and I'll buy a bow and arrow and take up archery.

sparks you dont need angle grinder:D:D:D

Sparks

True that

Grizzly 45

Aquire a tounge in cheek and sense of humour guys.:)
RE JFPO GOA and NRA. If we cant laugh at ourselves,once in awhile,we will be as humourless and miserable as the antis.

Sparks

I am as humourless and miserable as the antis.

Grizzly 45

Oh Dear...You should try a laugh once in awhile Sparks.Folks might mistake you for Human,not a Vulcan.:pac::pac::pac::pac:

patbundy

Sparks wrote: »

I am as humourless and miserable as the antis.

i think thats a lie ....i know , i think i seen a picture of you smilling some where, give me a month or two:D:D

thehair

patbundy wrote: »

i think thats a lie ....i know , i think i seen a picture of you smilling some where, give me a month or two:D:D

yes pat it might be ture:por not:eek:who knows:D

BryanL

Sparks's letter was published in todays Examiner and a seperate article on rising gun crime in Ireland made no link to legally held gun and was a fairly balanced piece.
although the claim there could be over 150,000 illegaly held guns in the country is shocking


Rising gun crime here to stay, finds study

By Paul O’Brien, Political Correspondent
IRELAND’S rising gun crime problem is here to stay despite Garda efforts to combat it, an expert study has indicated.


Ireland features as a case study in the most recent Small Arms Survey, an annual report which examines global gun ownership and associated issues.

The 2007 survey, conducted by researchers at the Graduate Institute of International Studies in Geneva, was published in the latter half of last year, but not widely reported at the time.



It points out that, previously, Irish problems with small arms were “associated exclusively” with terrorism in the north. That changed with the advent of the peace process, while gun crime rose in the Republic at the same time. “Instead of Northern Ireland, now it is the Republic of Ireland that is feeling the effects of criminal gun violence,” it states.

There are about 231,000 legally held firearms licensed in the state, according to the latest figures published by Justice Minister Dermot Ahern in the Dáil last week.

But the Garda Síochána’s most serious concern is not “traditional gun ownership, but an invasion of handguns and automatics smuggled in from Europe”, the survey points out.

Illegally held, unlicensed firearms are estimated to number at least 150,000, and this figure “could be considerably higher”, the survey says. Of greatest concern are the weapons in the hands of criminal gangs, many of which are semi-automatic pistols and submachine guns. “They have fuelled unprecedented, murderous rivalries among drug gangs,” the survey states.

Citing work from other researchers, it adds: “Small arms proliferation appears to be an unexpected consequence of integration into a border-free Europe, leaving national leaders and law enforcement officials struggling to cope.”

The survey acknowledges the three-fold response of the authorities here: the crackdown on smuggling; the 2006 amnesty for illegal firearms and an increase in the number of gardaí. But it concludes on a pessimistic note, stating: “These steps will help Ireland deal with rising gun crime, but they have been tried elsewhere and found wanting.

“It is hard to avoid the conclusion that Ireland is becoming more like the rest of the world in terms of firearm-related problems.”

Click here for irishexaminer.com stories before this date

flanum

just curious, is the term "submachine gun" an actual technical term or is it a media made up word?

Sparks

It's a technical term, been around since the 1930s or so when the thompson was invented.

Rovi

flanum wrote: »

just curious, is the term "submachine gun" an actual technical term or is it a media made up word?

I've always been of the understanding that a submachine gun (SMG) is an automatic firearm that's chambered for a pistol calibre.
It appears to be a generally accepted and understood term in 'firearms' circles, see here for more details-
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg00-e.htm

Sparks

Thanks for the spot BryanL, had almost given up on seeing that thing published. They rewrote a chunk of it to remove names (though, since it's obvious to anyone who watched the segment who's whom, it seemed a rather silly exercise - and if they're happy to print shooter's names and addresses in court case reports, it seems a little one-sided...).

foxshooter243

the term comes from sub caliber ammunition or most pistol ammo.

rrpc

I always thought it related to the overall size of the gun. Prior to the sub-machine gun, all machine guns were practically two man jobs, but the sub-machine gun was designed to be easily carried by one man.

Using normal machine gun calibres would have made it too heavy, hence the use of pistol ammo.

patbundy

it was both rrpc

foxshooter243

rrpc wrote: »

I always thought it related to the overall size of the gun. Prior to the sub-machine gun, all machine guns were practically two man jobs, but the sub-machine gun was designed to be easily carried by one man.

Using normal machine gun calibres would have made it too heavy, hence the use of pistol ammo.

it was something to do with sleeving down barrels to use pistol ammo-therefore having them firing sub caliber ammo-then the term stuck with
the use of pistol ammo in all machine guns, i cant quite remember the inns and outs but remember reading about it in guns and ammo way back,the oul memory is slipping:eek::D

kowloon

It was a marketing term invented by Thompson to sell "Trench Brooms" .
The guns from before that had different names, the Bergmann was called a machine pistol, the Germans still call SMGs machine pistols, hence mp40, mp5 etc. The Italians called their Villar Perosa guns light machine guns (and also used them as such).

Grizzly 45

And to really confuse the issue the British used to call them machine carbines.Correct title for the sten is[as per instruction book issued] STEN Sub Machine carbine.

kowloon

Light machinegun and machine pistol sound vicious, machine carbine has no tabloid appeal at all.
Lets hope nobody invents the "Child-Blaster"; we'll all lose our licenses .

Gunter Mauser

tclonan@irish-times.ie one way to settle this once and for all.

thehair

Gunter Mauser wrote: »

tclonan@irish-times.ie one way to settle this once and for all.

top class ans:D

Our man in Havana

I wonder would he reply?

Sparks

Not with several live complaints in to the BCC I would imagine.

Our man in Havana

I was thinking that would be the case.

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

Not with several live complaints in to the BCC I would imagine.

Don't think he'll be too worried, par for the course in his profession.

Grizzly 45

Good morning all.
Well, I got my response from the BCC Re RTEs Prime Time programme,as no doubt FOUR other people here on this board will in due course today. Yup..Five,funef,cuig,cienco,cineq,people responded to this programme from all Ireland!!!All of them from Boards.
Also another cheery bit of news.What we have long suspected has now been proven.
Caution!! This board is monitored by the media and without a now doubt Govt Types!!! May I now suggest in future that everyone THINK about what they are posting re laws and upcoming legislation and occurances Re firearms here anymore.No point in giving the Hacks and G men a total insight anymore as what is going on?

SHAME ON US!!! Five people responded out of 215,000 gun owners?
Lads,the Antis will be laughing their tofu eating heads off at this!!They can muster a better response than we can ,and there are only about 200 of them.At least it shows up the myth that there is a "powerful gun lobby" in Ireland.There doesnt even seem to be a lobby at all or intrest for that matter.
People,if we dont want to be one of the last generations of Irish gunowners and shooters.I think a major removing of thumbs out of collective A"""SES is very much in order.From the bottom up to the top in Irish shooting.
I am absolutely DISGUSTED to call myself an Irish gunowner today:mad::mad::mad:.
The first hatchet job that is done to us,and five people respond.Well done,we are now fair game for every bit of sh"TE anyone wants to throw at us with impunity.Sure how many will respond next time...Two?

Stop thinking Ah shure somone else will do it.They are proably not.

Stop thinking
Ah shure I am in a club ,organisation etc,thats what I pay money for,they will do it.they proably are not or cant.

Stop thinking Me fein,Fuk them I'm all right Jack.You are not all right.You no matter what you shoot are now fair game for the media and all crackpots out there.

Start thinking about supporting your sport,by doing your bit.A letter,fax or email takes 10 mins to write.I think we can all afford a Euro for a stamp.
If we dont want to be the last generation of Irish shooters,we had better have a very serious re think,each and every one of us as to what we are going to do to support our sport.The figures say it all people.FIVE responses.THINK LONG AND HARD ON THAT.

Also to the four other people who were ar$£d to respond and did.
As a gunowner I personally thank you and salute you all.
At least some of us have a belif in our way of life to stand up and be counted,no matter what the risks to us maybe.

Ass chewing over..

Basically, RTE responds in saying they are right and we are all wrong.And that we are a great conspircy to influence future reporting on gun ownership in Ireland[HAH!:rolleyes:]
It is a 9 page letter ex cover page.Mostly full of transcripts.I have included it in file format for everyones perusal.

Enjoy
[thourghly peed off] Grizzly.

Grizzly 45

Upload of the remainder of files.

Grizzly 45

Sorry.delay in computor prog.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Well, I got my response from the BCC Re RTEs Prime Time programme

Are we invited to give a counter-response since there were charges made by RTE I wonder?

Also another cheery bit of news.What we have long suspected has now been proven. Caution!! This board is monitored by the media and without a now doubt Govt Types!!! May I now suggest in future that everyone THINK about what they are posting re laws and upcoming legislation and occurances Re firearms here anymore.No point in giving the Hacks and G men a total insight anymore as what is going on?

Er, Grizzly, we've known that for a fact for years (the DoJ, DoAST, Gardai and all the NGBs read here, some even post here from time to time). That's part of why we have a charter and moderators.
And, for the record, before boards.ie came along, the Powers That Be were equally well-informed about what happens in our little community because half of us are army and gardai and several well-known target shooters (including the guy who taught me to shoot) now work or have worked for the DoJ. It's a small island.

Start thinking about supporting your sport,by doing your bit.A letter,fax or email takes 10 mins to write.I think we can all afford a Euro for a stamp.
If we dont want to be the last generation of Irish shooters,we had better have a very serious re think,each and every one of us as to what we are going to do to support our sport.The figures say it all people.FIVE responses.THINK LONG AND HARD ON THAT.

Can't argue with that...

Basically, RTE responds in saying they are right and we are all wrong.

No shock there really. The next step's the important one. Was there a response from the BCC as opposed to RTE?


Have to say, the RTE "defence" is somewhat laughable. We're involved in hair-splitting exercises if we're right (about the 1972 TCO); we've no evidence to support our case if it's an interpretation issue; it's all Tom Clonan's fault if they had inaccuracies in their report; and it doesn't matter anyway because everyone was watching Dustin on the other RTE channel at the time.

Still, it's nice to see they read here. Maybe next time they'll actually know what the bleep they're talking about...

BTW Grizzly, you missed redacting people's names a few times in those scans. I don't mind mine being in there, but it's not the only one...

Sparks

Hmmm. Reading the BCC website turns this up:

If the broadcaster does respond, we forward the response to you for consideration. If you are not happy with the broadcasters response, write to us. We will then request a tape of the broadcast from the broadcaster. The tape together with all the correspondence is circulated to the Members of the Commission for consideration and decision.

So that's our next step then. All five (/me shakes head in dismay) of us need to decide if we will take this further, and write in response to the BCC. I personally intend to. Grizzly, did they give an email address to contact them on in that cover letter or do we have to do this by snail-mail to their secretary here:

Secretary,
Broadcasting Complaints Commission,
2 - 5 Warrington Place,
Dublin 2.

Following that step:

The Commission will decide whether or not the broadcaster has respected the codes/legislation

If the Commission agrees with the complaint it will be upheld.

If the Commission disagrees, the complaint will be rejected.

A summary of the correspondence is drafted. The decision of the Commission, together with the reasons for the decision, is included with the summary.

A copy of the decision will be sent to you and the broadcaster before its publication.

So that's straightforward enough, and frankly the RTE defence looked pretty weak.

All the decisions of the Commission are available to the public. Unless it considers it inappropriate to do so, summaries of all complaints are distributed to the media, listed in the Commissions Annual Report and posted to this website, decisions. The information published includes the name of the complainant.

Works for me.

Where a complaint is upheld, in whole or in part, the broadcaster concerned shall, unless the Commission consider it inappropriate to do so, broadcast the Commissions decision, of the person who made the complaint, including, in the case of a complaint under subsection (2)(f) (slander), any correction of inaccurate facts or information relating to the individual concerned, at a time and manner corresponding to that in which the broadcast to which the complaint relates took place.
The Commission does not have any power to award to any party costs or expenses.

That looks good to me as well, we're not out for costs or expenses, just people to stop saying we're about to walk into a schoolyard and start shooting :mad: