RTE's Prime Time - Shooting/licensing to be featured Tuesday night...

Gerri

The only surprise tonight was the number of people who regularly contribute to this forum who actually believed there was going to be positive comments about shooting on RTE television:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

It wasn't me!

He should not have been drawing parallels between members of the shooting community and the defence forces.

Now that's a point that should be made as clear as possible I think.

Jonty

I suppose we're all dreamers

rrpc

And of course in an Olympic year, no mention of Olympic shooting to at least give us some positive spin.

Total hatchet job, Tom Clonan came out with some horrendous guff about the .308 being "too big" for any "hunting target" in this country.

And of course the dreaded 9mm, can any of you lads get off a full mag in 2 to 3 seconds?

I actually can't understand the 'rate of fire' that a 9mm has above any other calibre. What's so special about a 9mm bullet that it can get out of a gun far quicker than anything else?

Sparks

primetime@rte.ie

Vegeta

Gerri wrote: »

The only surprise tonight was the number of people who regularly contribute to this forum who actually believed there was going to be positive comments about shooting on RTE television:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

well one can hope

Jonty

rrpc wrote: »

And of course in an Olympic year, no mention of Olympic shooting to at least give us some positive spin.


And of course the dreaded 9mm, can any of you lads get off a full mag in 2 to 3 seconds?

I can't but I know a few guys who can :

Will Smith (Bad Boys)
Bruce Willis (Die Hard)


etc, etc

johngalway

Jonty wrote: »

rrpc wrote: »

And as for our troops in Chad, I hope they are doing OK, According to Clonan if they get pinned down in some ****ty village we'll be better tooled up than the cavalry on the way to the rescue.

Once Mick O'Leary starts doing flights there no one will mess with our lads. Mind you I'm sure the Irish Times will still be up in arms over the shocking and dangerous fact that Ryanair don't provide fully up to spec gunsafes under each seat cushion... Key held by the stewards naturally.

Gerri wrote: »

The only surprise tonight was the number of people who regularly contribute to this forum who actually believed there was going to be positive comments about shooting on RTE television:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I agree 100%

Gerri

Sparks wrote: »

Damn right I would, now's when we need airtime to counter that load of ****e we just had excreted all over us.

Please do not contact RTE telling them about Olympic shooting disciplines, otherwise they might categorise us as drugged up shooters if previous reports on numerous Olympic competitors in other disciplines are correct.

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

Damn right I would, now's when we need airtime to counter that load of ****e we just had excreted all over us.

Ah yes, and then you'd be edited out of all recognition and clipped in with a tabloid journalist spouting gibberish from Tom Clancy books.

kowloon

Gangstas gonna git you with the nine.
The security expert impressed me with his knowledge of the "devil calibres".

Dvs

A word to the wise,
Do not send emails complaining to Primetime or RTE.

Ignore this ****e, any response on our part will only be used against us,
if they think there is mileage in running more of the same ****e they will.

Anyone that thinks they can go on RTE and put our side is fooling themselves,
they would need to have control of the editing of the show or they will be shown only in a negative manner.

Dvs.

Grizzly 45

Sparks was saying about airtime.Suggestion;Folks how about WE do a documentary on shooting and gunownership in Ireland??I know a film production company here that are always looking out for intresting material re Ireland.They Are NO friends of the Primetime shower,yet have sold some pretty good docus to RTE over the past couple of years

At least WE could be assured on what the content will be,and get to preview it as well.Would anyone be intrested from each field of shooting to go on film about shooting.
Reason I am suggesting this is;I am personally SICK&TIRED of this crap media coverage we get here on TV,and I would like it for us to show that we are indeed safe and harmless,and competant people. Anyone intrested??PM me.

Jonty

And don't forget Clonan's "insurgent" remark/comparrison.

chem

Lets just see what happens, on the G Ryan, J. Fluffy, newstalk etc tomorrow and see how much this effected people;)

Sparks

Ignore it and they can then say "of course we were accurate, noone complained". Despite the reality.

Vegeta

rrpc wrote: »

I actually can't understand the 'rate of fire' that a 9mm has above any other calibre. What's so special about a 9mm bullet that it can get out of a gun far quicker than anything else?

Has no one told you, they're coated in pure gangsta/criminal slaying evil powder which makes them come out of the barrel really quickly.

The effect is magnafied when the firearm or "satan weapon" is held sideways.

Honestly where did they get this guy. He learned his firearms "facts" from Commando.

Sparks

I'd put together a list of what was wrong with that chap's "facts", but it'd just turn into a transcript. Annoyingly, he was due to be invited to the FCP conference, but wasn't because we weren't quite ready for the mainstream media. Looking back, that was probably a mistake

Gerri

Vegeta wrote: »

Has no one told you, they're coated in pure gangsta/criminal slaying evil powder which makes them come out of the barrel really quickly.

The effect is magnafied when the firearm or "satan weapon" is held sideways.

Honestly where did they get this guy. He learned his firearms "facts" from Commando.

At least our collective sense of humour is still intact, let's hope we can maintain that at least.

rrpc

Vegeta wrote: »

Honestly where did they get this guy. He learned his firearms "facts" from Commando.

He's an ex Irish Army Officer which explains his stance. Most Army Officers do not believe that civvies should have 'weapons'.

It wouldn't matter if it was an air pistol, or a catapult. Only soldiers have weapons. :rolleyes:

chem

what about inviting media groups to a target shooting day? let them see its not all evil and mybe it might help in our sports

Grizzly 45

Honestly where did they get this guy. He learned his firearms "facts" from Commando.

Now,now Veg.He is an EX Irish Army Officer.So therefore he MUST know everything about Guns!! Wonder what branch he was in ....Was it the Irish Baloon & Blimp Corps?:rolleyes:

Which just goes to show how much "officers" in any mans army know about anything!

kowloon

Would an ex army officer not be worried about throwing out firearms facts that make him look ill-informed and a bit of a tool?

If I remember correctly ear to the ground done (did?) a segment that had no gangstas in it.

rrpc

chem wrote: »

what about inviting media groups to a target shooting day? let them see its not all evil and mybe it might help in our sports

Eh? Weren't RTE in Midlands for this gig? Didn't help much did it?

patbundy

lads why dont we sit back for a few days and see what damage this program have or have not done to us

chem

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Now,now Veg.He is an EX Irish Army Officer.So therefore he MUST know everything about Guns!! Wonder what branch he was in ....Was it the Irish Baloon & Blimp Corps?:rolleyes:

Which just goes to show how much "officers" in any mans army know about anything!

Spud peeling commandos:D:D:D bat69 Z Coy

Dvs

The best thing we can all do in response to this is,
go out tomorrow or some time this week,
and whatever your shooting sport take part in it,
shoot your guns enjoy your sport.

Dvs.

chem

rrpc wrote: »

Eh? Weren't RTE in Midlands for this gig? Didn't help much did it?

Yep. But was anyone told there, what type of piece they were going to do on shooting At least if they attended a target shoot in a non media type day it might change some minds!

rrpc

patbundy wrote: »

lads why dont we sit back for a few days and see what damage this program have or have not done to us

Indeed. There's merit in what you say Pat. Sometimes these segments are ignored and often forgotten because of the stuff that preceded them.

I would suggest that instead of going to RTE in the future, we go to TV3 and Newstalk. Nothing like a bit of friendly competition

patbundy

rrpc wrote: »

Eh? Weren't RTE in Midlands for this gig? Didn't help much did it?

could say the same of the gunshop owner handing that reporter a rifle with a bolt but i wont.reporters are only out make news to improve their career and nothing gets in their way/esp.. the truth or facts

kowloon

See if it gets a mention on questions & answers as often happens.

Kryten

Army officers are not experts on firearms. They are experts (or trained to be ) on combat matters and commanding a body of soldiers in the various military duties. They deserve respect for this ability, BUT they are not weapons experts. They will recieve the same training as any other soldier on the use of weapons. If they train as ordnance officers, their knowledge of firearms is dramatically increased. They undergo a condensed version of an armourers course during their technical training.
So if Dr Clonan is an ex army officer, unless he is an ex ordnance officer, It dosent class him as an expert. His Anti gun rubbish and tabloid sensationalism, in my opinion, damages any credibility he had as a so called expert.

It wasn't me!

Basically what we need to do is get someone to write a piece saying "I had a day out with these lads. They showed huge attention to detail in making sure that everything was safe, they all seemed like nice, friendly guys, chatting and laughing together. They even let me try shoot some of their targets and I can see now how impressive and challenging it is. It seems a great sport and I wish them the best. I don't know what all the fuss is about." That do the job? Why is it so hard to get that story? I know the evil scary thing sells better, but why isn't anyone writing this side of it? One of the DURC shooters submitted an article for the university paper, The Record, and they printed it, along with the photo of this year's intervarsity squad and their trophies. However, they felt the need to add that photo of the kitten sniping from the window, and a huge picture of a Dragunov as a background piece for the article. Why couldn't they have printed what they were given without making snide insertions?

patbundy

still reporters iwm

Clash

Not being paranoid or anything, but I've noticed a fair bit of biased media coverage in the last while or so with regard to court cases etc.

I would believe that there is a certain very p***ed off body of people who are not getting their way in the courts and trying every other dirty trick to do as much damage as possible.

It wasn't me!

patbundy wrote: »

still reporters iwm

Difficult to get good publicity without them.

dresden8

Wait 'til that rabble rousing tosser Joe Duffy jumps on the bandwagon. Then we'll be lucky to hold onto .22s.

patbundy

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Difficult to get good publicity without them.

true but its hard to get a good one

Grizzly 45

kowloon wrote: »

Would an ex army officer not be worried about throwing out firearms facts that make him look ill-informed and a bit of a tool?
quote]

Ah well this is the problem.Mr Clonan has dug himself well with the Irish print&TV media,with his purpoted "expertise" on all things military.Ever since ol Joe Jacob made a hames of our national disaster plan,good Ol Tom has been spouting off all sorts of nonsense. EG how useless army surplus NBC equipment would be to civillians if a dirty bomb or whatnot went off in Dublin for some reason,when there was the Anthrax scare.
So now he is the" expert "that RTE and the papers call up to comment on anything military orfirearms related..dont bother trying to point out that he iswrong ,as this will only gore the medias ox and we cant have that RTE and the papers are ..choke,splutter....WRONG!!!:eek: now could we???

Lets see what the media know it alls will say tomrrow.Usual suspects.Joe Fluffy,God Almighty[ AKA Gerry Ryan],Plank Kenny.......:rolleyes:
Oh and expect the antis to try and piggyback this somhow as well in your local rag and national press

Dv has said the best thing. FEck em anyway,lets go shooting..:D

Sparks

Sent (because I don't believe in this "lets ignore them" stuff after the handgun ban in the UK):

Dear Sir/Madam,

I have watched Prime Time and it's predecessors for many years now, but until tonight I have never seen a segment on a topic I know so well. I'm an Olympic target shooter myself. I own three licenced firearms. I have taken national medals, I have coached, I have helped run the national governing body in the fourteen years I've been shooting and I have had the honour of representing our country internationally. I was also the resident expert on the recent firearms legislation for the national governing body and have represented Olympic target shooting in negotiations with the Department of Justice regarding this legislation.

I have to say, that based upon my knowledge and experience of this field, your report on Tuesday was exceptionally poor, with gross errors in fact and was libellous at several points. You have portrayed the most law-abiding section of Irish society - and the only section where every member has been deemed to be safe and responsible by the Gardai - as being a group of mindless dangerous gun-crazed idiots. This is reprehensible.

Where was the interview with Garreth Byrne of the firearms section of the Department of Justice or any of his section? Where was the interview with Superintendent Noel Clarke, responsible within the Gardai for the implementation of the Criminal Justice Act's Firearms legislation? Where was the coverage of the recent Firearms Consulative Panel conference from two weeks ago, where over two days representatives of the shooting community, the Department of Justice and the Gardai all met to discuss the changes in the firearms legislation?

Who checked the facts from the Times security correspondant, whose comments bore no resemblence to fact in any shape or form, but which were pure sensationalism from start to finish? I could understand one or two errors, no man is a perfect expert, but every single fact he proferred was grossly in error. From the range of a .308 rifle, to the characteristics of a 9mm pistol, every technical fact was simply wrong. And the less technical statements he made would trigger libel lawsuits had they been made at a more specific group. Since when is it responsible journalism to state that it is only a matter of time before someone from a group of people will shoot at a schoolyard?

Being the national broadcaster carries with it the responsibility to inform the public in an even and accurate manner. Being the flagship in-depth news show for that broadcaster adds to that responsibility. Tonight you abdicated from that responsibility and embarked on a spree of sensationalist scaremongering, dragging through the mud the name of the only section of Irish society where every member is approved by the Gardai as being safe and responsible.

Yours in abject digust,

And I'm forwarding it on to the letters pages as well to try to get it in alongside the "omg, ban de gunz, think of the children!" letters. (BTW, sorry if the first paragraph sounds like I'm bragging, but it's to back up the second one).

patbundy

sparks i would have waited a day or two, good letter though

Our man in Havana

Any point in sending a complaint to the BCC? http://www.bcc.ie

See http://www.bcc.ie/how_to_complaint/what_about.html Notice point A.

Grizzly 45

Sparks,you write one meannn letter.:D
Wonder since thisprogramme segment is so inaccurate,maybe aletter too from all of the Irish shooting community to the broadcasting complaints comission as well???

foxshooter243

could you imagine if reloading was up for discussion:eek:, there would be
IEDs going off on every highway and byway..the slant was to be expected , no great shock..but it does deserve a measured response.

sparks response is well measured......

patbundy

maybe bond just to get it on their list

patbundy

:D:D.loved to see that foxshooter

Our man in Havana

http://www.bcc.ie/how_to_complaint/what_about_impartiality.html

Impartiality and/or fairness and balance in news & current affairs



Broadcasters must ensure that all news broadcast is reported and presented in an objective and impartial manner and without expression of the broadcasters own views.



In its broadcast treatment of current affairs, including matters which are either of public controversy or the subject of current public debate, it is fair to all interests concerned and that the broadcast matter is presented in an objective and impartial manner and without any expression of the broadcasters own views (two or more related broadcasts may be considered as a whole, if the broadcasts are transmitted within a reasonable period of time).

Relevant Section of Broadcasting Act 2001: Section 24(2)(a)

civdef

He's an ex Irish Army Officer which explains his stance. Most Army Officers do not believe that civvies should have 'weapons'.

His reputation amongst his former colleagues is not a good one, based on the way he is felt by many to have turned on them in order to further his "meda expert" career.

His writings on military matters are held in very low esteem by people with any knowledge, and his contribution to the programme tonight was firmly in the same vein.

I can think of a good many army officers who are shooting enthusiasts.

Vegeta

It is amazing, give us a common enemy ( license fee increase) and we do some great work

fat-tony

Watched the programme, read the comments on boards, watched the programme again on SKY+ to try to see it from a layman's point of view.

There was actually very little editorial comment from the reporters or from the programme itself. The interesting thing was that the the filmed report played off Tom Clonan (biased, anti-shooter, pseudo expert - from the shooter's point of view) against Des Crofton (yay, hero of the people, what's all the fuss about - from the shooter's point of view).
Enter - stage left - Paul Anthony McDermott, constitutional lawyer, voice of reason, calling for a single modern gun law 2008. Now here's something we should work on!

Result - maybe some people will get upset at finding out that there are ANY pistols and high-powered rifles in the country. Overall, let's wait and see what transpires on the Joe Fluffy show etc.