RTE's Prime Time - Shooting/licensing to be featured Tuesday night...

fat-tony

Vegeta wrote: »

lies and opinion versus fact and logic, balanced reporting does not make [/yoda]

Alleged facts about 9mm pistol's ability (9 shots in two seconds) a good story makes.:D
Dry facts about 1,500+ pistol licences and sky not falling a counter argument makes.;)

Sparks

What does implying that we're about to experience an Irish Dunblane make?
And I disagree that the PrimeTime team were unbiased fattony - they were the ones that produced that segment. They didn't interview people they should have, they chose "experts" who weren't, the voiceover had dozens of factual errors in it that built up to protray a skewed take on things. They're culpable.

patbundy

fat-tony wrote: »

Alleged facts about 9mm pistol's ability (9 shots in two seconds) a good story makes.:D
Dry facts about 1,500+ pistol licences and sky not falling a counter argument makes.;)

must try that sometime tony

Our man in Havana

I am drafting a complaint to the BCC. Hopefully they will hold RTÉ to account.

patbundy

Sparks wrote: »

What does implying that we're about to experience an Irish Dunblane make?
And I disagree that the PrimeTime team were unbiased fattony - they were the ones that produced that segment. They didn't interview people they should have, they chose "experts" who weren't, the voiceover had dozens of factual errors in it that built up to protray a skewed take on things. They're culpable.

isnt that what the bcc for sparks

patbundy

sparks as a dad i still feel the pain of dunblane,still remember it as it was yesterday

Sparks

Yup, and Bond's approach is a good one. But the BCC grinds slowly, the public opinion mills grind fast. Both approaches need to be pursued, one to try to officially complain about RTE's coverage, the other to try to get a protest out into the public domain as quickly as possible.

Sparks

patbundy wrote: »

sparks as a dad i still feel the pain of dunblane,still remember it as it was yesterday

And that's why he used the word "schoolyard". And that really gets under my fingernails.

patbundy

mine too sparks

patbundy

schoolyard sparks now you see why i dislike press and thats only of them

fat-tony

Sparks wrote: »

What does implying that we're about to experience an Irish Dunblane make?
And I disagree that the PrimeTime team were unbiased fattony - they were the ones that produced that segment. They didn't interview people they should have, they chose "experts" who weren't, the voiceover had dozens of factual errors in it that built up to protray a skewed take on things. They're culpable.

I think you're mixing up logic, truth and all the things we sane, rational people hold dear with the mindset of the journalist out for a story. What we got in that report was a sensationalist view versus a sane, rational (to our minds) view.
I didn't suggest that Primetime were unbiased, it's in their brief to provide some level of debate in their reports - they did provide two opposing(polarised?) views, though. The fact that one of them was laughable in the veracity of his views (to the shooting community) is neither here nor there. Perhaps we need a "Charlie Bird" to do an in-depth investigation? I think this programme will pass without too much kickback. If it does end up on Joe Duffy etc., then maybe we should call on our comrades in the Doj etc.?

kowloon

I loved the graphics of the target overlaid on the Commando-esque panning along the length of the pistol, they could have added in some screaming children in te background for the full Brasseye effect IMO.

patbundy

its the press kowloon i afraid

Sparks

fat-tony wrote: »

I didn't suggest that Primetime were unbiased

fat-tony wrote:

the overall report was balanced

True - you didn't suggest it, you stated it!

it's in their brief to provide some level of debate in their reports

Yes, and I'm saying they were incompetent in this case and did not provide two even sides of debate, because the facts on the scaremongering side were not checked.

The fact that one of them was laughable in the veracity of his views (to the shooting community) is neither here nor there.

Yes, it is. Check the bcc complaints guide.

Perhaps we need a "Charlie Bird" to do an in-depth investigation?

We definitely need something allright.

I think this programme will pass without too much kickback.

It's the second time this has come up in the media, and it's gone from the editorial of the Examiner to Prime Time. That's not the path a story takes before vanishing into the aether.

If it does end up on Joe Duffy etc., then maybe we should call on our comrades in the Doj etc.?

Them, the sports journalists we've worked with over the years, anyone and everyone. With things up in the air for so many things like reloading and the restricted list, now is not the time for media stuff like this to establish mindsets which would see our legislation crank down the ratchet on us again. It needs to be countered, and loudly and clearly.

Grizzly 45

What would be really good now,is if some who were involved with the Prime Time crew up in the Midlands spoke up about the shennigans the director wanted for dramatic footage of shooting.It would show how underhanded these people can be just to get their story.

Charlie Bird...to do a story and investigation against his fellow slithery creatures of current affairs in RTE???Novel concept!

Sparks

The folks in the midlands who spotted that and were very careful not to give them their "lock-n-load" footage ought to be commended as well.

patbundy

lads ,do we have we have any journalist on the sports or anywhere in the forum who can report thre truth,just to do a proper report

Sparks

Lindie Naughton in the Herald/Indo is the first name that comes to mind; there was a good piece on Derek Burnett in the Sunday Tribune a few weeks back; Denis Walsh in the Sunday Times; and the SSAI have some contacts in the Indo.

kowloon

Sparks wrote: »

The folks in the midlands who spotted that and were very careful not to give them their "lock-n-load" footage ought to be commended as well.

I'm surprised that they didn't have one of those "tooling up" sequences thrown in. They did get the display of sharp pointy bullets arranged by height into it though, always popular.

patbundy

kowloon dont you have one of those;)

kowloon

Mine are bigger but not so pointy

patbundy

lads we have to see over the next few days to see what the media say or print about us then we can react.

patbundy

boasting again kowloon:D:D:D

patbundy

Sparks wrote: »

Lindie Naughton in the Herald/Indo is the first name that comes to mind; there was a good piece on Derek Burnett in the Sunday Tribune a few weeks back; Denis Walsh in the Sunday Times; and the SSAI have some contacts in the Indo.

but are they in the boards forum

Sparks

Honestly, I don't know Pat. We have a lot more readers than posters, especially amongst those "higher up the foodchain" - and even amongst the posters, I would only know the secret identities of a handful of you.

Those on that little list, however, have been sent notes on the coverage. Maybe something will come out of it, maybe not.

meathstevie

Folks I don't know about the Tom Clonan chap being on that panel. What's the justification for him being there ? He's ex-military so unless he's a sports shooter as well he's only learnt to shoot at people in a professional capacity which makes him highly unsuitable to comment on strictly non-violent civilian firearms related recreation and sports. And as for his technical contributions : if that's the best expert RTE could find they musn't have been searching long.

From a fur and feathers angle it has to be said that Agriview on Radio One done a very good documentary on lamping foxes and livestock protection sometime last year. Damien O'Reilly is the chap who presents that show isn't it ?

johngalway

I'm still disgusted with the term "weapon". The segment, unless I totally missed something, was on legally held firearms for sporting or target purposes. Those are "firearms", "weapons are used to hurt people.

Is there anywhere we can see that segment again? I don't have the Sky recorder thingy. I'd like to see it again to write my own letter to be honest.

Bananaman

I was out last night so just saw this "documentary" and I agree with a lot of the comment here - utter drivel.

Thankfully the guys in midlands did not allow them to get any sensationalist footage. Des Crofton came across quite well.

They also had the good sense to not show the identity of the persons holding the pistols. I wonder if they asked them to wear balaclavas :-)

Bit of a pity that the SA pistols were all 9mm.
I suppose a couple of Open Class .38 Supers with Red Dot Sights and aero wings would not have fit in with the "look" they were after.

he (Tom Clonan) was due to be invited to the FCP conference, but wasn't because we weren't quite ready for the mainstream media

I think, now that he has shown his colours, that would be a mistake. It would simply feed his ego that he is "in the know". He is too ready to spout rubbish on the back of being an "expert" which inviting him to the FCP would simply ratify. Shortly thereafter he would be spouting about schoolyards AFTER telling everyone he was the security expert on the FCP.

what about inviting media groups to a target shooting day?

I can see the logic but I would be concerned about them taking film footage.
More specifically because they would cut it to look like a blackthorn op in baghdad.

Someone suggested going on one of these shows to show the other side of the coin.

I'd be careful about that too. They would ride you into the sunset. You could talk to them for hours and they would cut two seconds out of it and show it with a background of some American target with Bin Laden on it.

B'Man

Bananaman

The thngs that got my goat the most were:

[1] The "human-like" target in the opening sequence - Klass with a capital K
[2] The RTE guy with the rifle - bolt closed, finger on the trigger - shouldn't have happened.
[3] The sensational way they presented the number of firearms in the country
They talked about the increase in the number of shotguns and rilfes but then simply said there had been an increase of 1500 pistols. Under thir breath that pointed ouit that that is over 8 YEARS and then cut to [4].
[4] Dr. WhatsHisFace and any time he opened his mouth.
Where did they find him?

In retrospect, it was to be expected. Any Current Affairs programme is all about sensationalism rather than journalism. The Fact that they had no discussion afterwards is indicative of the fact that they porbablu asked and nobody would touch them and be associated with what they would produce.
I can see it now - Mark Little: "So Minister - what do you think about our security experts statement on schoolyards?"

I'll leave it at that.

B'Man

rrpc

johngalway wrote: »

Is there anywhere we can see that segment again? I don't have the Sky recorder thingy. I'd like to see it again to write my own letter to be honest.

http://www.rte.ie/news/primetime

Soberly titled "Gun Culture on the rise in Ireland" :mad: