Irish Rail derails plans for Wi-Fi on trains

paulm17781

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/news.nv?storyid=single11040

Just another shining example of what makes Irish Rail such a rubbish entity. My personal favourite is

Useless Company wrote:

“Iarnród Éireann (IÉ) feels that it wouldn’t be in the public’s or the company’s best interest to install the current wireless technologies on its fleet for customer use due to the limited lifespan of said technologies. Anything we install now is likely to be completely redundant within five years.

“We feel customers would be better supported by obtaining their own wireless solutions, such as those provided by the mobile providers (3G and GPRS/EDGE).

This is just annoying. Once again the ball is dropped and Irish rail are shown for the useless visionless entity they are.

markpb

Useless Company wrote:

“We feel customers would be better supported by obtaining their own wireless solutions, such as those provided by the mobile providers (3G and GPRS/EDGE).

Replace "wireless solutions" with "cars" and it's still true.

markf909

markpb wrote: »

Replace "wireless solutions" with "cars" and it's still true.

Indeed, Irish Rail do not care about innovation or their Business customers because all of the Irish Rail staff are guaranteed their jobs irrespective of the service they provide.

Witness this mornings cancellation of the 6:30am Cork Dublin with no notice.
How are business people expected to put up with such nonsense?

paulm17781

If Dempsey had any balls, or use as a politician, he'd be reorganizing CIE as we speak. Not because of this but successive governments have seen what a bad company they are let it continue. I almost wish Harney was moved to Transport. At least she make some changes.

MOH

While I think Irish Rail stance on the matter is a complete joke, the article is a bit strange. I came across that statement in the Irish Rail FAQ over a month ago (and thought it ridiculous then). Why start writing about it now? And the blog poll quoted has a grand total of 15 replies. What exactly is a "wi-fi practitioner" anyway?

lostinsuperfunk

Crazy decision, I'm surprised it didn't get much attention at the time.

Internet access is another opportunity for IE to gain an edge over the airlines, private cars and bus operators and they choose to ignore it.

I don't understand the reasoning. Of course the final part of the wi-fi standard may become obsolete, 802.11b/g or whatever, but this part is cheap (maybe one access point per carriage?), and surely investing in the underlying infrastructure is worthwhile. People will always want high-speed internet access, and will always pay for a good service. You could even install wired 1 Gbps access at each seat and charge handsomely for it.

Zoney

paulm17781 wrote: »

If Dempsey had any balls, or use as a politician, he'd be reorganizing CIE as we speak. Not because of this but successive governments have seen what a bad company they are let it continue. I almost wish Harney was moved to Transport. At least she make some changes.

If it was Harney, we'd get a new HSE-like authority above CIE sucking cash and acting as another blame shield. Something like a National Transport Authority... Oh, wait a minute, that's right, the Government do plan to do this. It won't ensure joined up thinking in transport, just another layer of bureaucracy above the various fiefdoms and an attempt to outsource the Dept. of Transport.

Unfortunately Fianna Fail convinced almost half the voters to vote for them last time round, and the opposition managed not to win an election outright in pretty much ideal circumstances (which in fairness, doesn't inspire confidence they'd be much better than the alternative, though they'd be unlikely to be worse).

godtabh

paulm17781 wrote: »

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/news.nv?storyid=single11040

Just another shining example of what makes Irish Rail such a rubbish entity. My personal favourite is



This is just annoying. Once again the ball is dropped and Irish rail are shown for the useless visionless entity they are.

Why should they have wifi on trains? Because you said so?

If it doesn't work out financially for them why should they do it? Its a business decision that they made.

If it was a private operator would you be saying the same?

Ham'nd'egger

The issue of WIFI on trains was debated here many times over the last year or so and sadly that story doesn't bring anything new or relevant onto this debate, it is just a stock story slipped into that site to boost hits for a blogger.

Any business that would invest in a medium only to possibly rip it up in a 2-3 years time is looking at a potential loss unless it is virtually free and hassle free to provide at the minute. I agree that it would be a nice extra but this would need to pay for itself and trains here may not have the numbers to make it worthwhile and to pay for itself (bear in mind many rail services here are loss making and need subvention to stay open). There is also the issue of 22000's being rolled out at present and phasing out of the Mark 3 carriages; this is naturally the priority of Irish Rail for the next year.

godtabh

Hamndegger wrote: »

The issue of WIFI on trains was debated here many times over the last year or so and sadly that story doesn't bring anything new or relevant onto this debate, it is just a stock story slipped into that site to boost hits for a blogger.

Any business that would invest in a medium only to possibly rip it up in a 2-3 years time is looking at a potential loss unless it is virtually free and hassle free to provide at the minute. I agree that it would be a nice extra but this would need to pay for itself and trains here may not have the numbers to make it worthwhile and to pay for itself (bear in mind many rail services here are loss making and need subvention to stay open). There is also the issue of 22000's being rolled out at present and phasing out of the Mark 3 carriages; this is naturally the priority of Irish Rail for the next year.

Exactly.

I don't understand why people bitch and moan about something as trivial as wifi on a train when there are much more important issues at hand.

OP who many times would you use the train and how often would you have used the wifi?

markpb

Hamndegger wrote: »

Any business that would invest in a medium only to possibly rip it up in a 2-3 years time is looking at a potential loss unless it is virtually free and hassle free to provide at the minute. I agree that it would be a nice extra but this would need to pay for itself and trains here may not have the numbers to make it worthwhile and to pay for itself (bear in mind many rail services here are loss making and need subvention to stay open).

It should be possible to roll out Wifi on particular routes based on the numbers using the route, the potential growth, the type of people who would use such a service, etc. Dublin - Cork and Dublin - Belfast both jump out as good examples as well as having the huge advantage that they run on pretty much dedicated fleets.

Also, the only reason it would have a life of three years is because IR missed the boat about five years ago when Wifi was getting popular.

paulm17781

kearnsr wrote: »

Why should they have wifi on trains? Because you said so?

If it doesn't work out financially for them why should they do it? Its a business decision that they made.

If it was a private operator would you be saying the same?

You're quite tedious in your determination to argue with everyone.

They promised it some time ago. From the article posted, they clearly did not research this as WiMax isn't close to a decent level yet. 3G can't possibly offer the same service and won't give a decent speed. Most of the country side isn't covered by 3G as it is expensive.

If IE wanted to do things to make the trains better for customers they could. This is another example of "Sure something else will help." IE once again fail to do anything to improve their image. IE do nothing to encourage people to use their trains.

Yes, I'd say the same of any rubbish company. There's no basis it isn't financially viable, it is just an example of Irish rail doing nothing to improve their services.

paulm17781

Hamndegger wrote: »

Any business that would invest in a medium only to possibly rip it up in a 2-3 years time is looking at a potential loss unless it is virtually free and hassle free to provide at the minute. .

Please go on. Can I some some figures to justify this. Can you show my why it is not viable? I'm a network administrator, I've a pretty decent idea of this. Do you?

OP who many times would you use the train and how often would you have used the wifi?

I'm not a business or regular traveler. If Wi-fi were available. I'd use it every time I traveled. I'm on 24hr call so I may need it and 3G just won't cut it for situations like that.

godtabh

paulm17781 wrote: »

Yes, I'd say the same of any rubbish company. There's no basis it isn't financially viable, it is just an example of Irish rail doing nothing to improve their services.

So what they should install this and make a loss on it?

You have serious issues with Irish Rail yet pick on one of the smallest issues that does not affect the running/performance of the trains and make it into a big issue.

Wouldnt be the battle I would be fighting

Run_to_da_hills

I wouldn't blame Irish Rail for not permitting Wifi on trains, If they could also ban the use of mobiles, video games, dvd players, Ipods and Walkmans it would make rail journeys much more pleasant and more considerate for those that want to sit back and relax. Gone were the days when one would read a book to pass the time on a journey. CIE Keep up the good work !

paulm17781

kearnsr wrote: »

So what they should install this and make a loss on it?

As I said, show me the figures.

kearnsr wrote: »

You have serious issues with Irish Rail yet pick on one of the smallest issues that does not affect the running/performance of the trains and make it into a big issue.

Wouldnt be the battle I would be fighting

That's cause you'd rather argue with the people here.

This is another example of how out of touch IE are with their customers. They will do nothing to make them happy. I've fought all scales of battle with IE. From campaigning for the interconnector to things like this. What is clear in all battles is that they have no concern or care for what their customers want.

Ham'nd'egger

paulm17781 wrote: »

Please go on. Can I some some figures to justify this. Can you show my why it is not viable? I'm a network administrator, I've a pretty decent idea of this. Do you?



I'm not a business or regular traveler. If Wi-fi were available. I'd use it every time I traveled. I'm on 24hr call so I may need it and 3G just won't cut it for situations like that.

Ok, how much would it cost to install, how many people are liable to use it and should Irish Rail just put it in on the off chance that one may wish to use it? Certainly, I am not a network administrator but the last time I checked, Irish Rail are in the business of running trains, not supplying internet connections. Unless WIFI costs half a button to run and is destined, the return and justification isn't there. Almost all services are showing huge rises in numbers as it is so they must be doing something right without it

Or should they just put the money into something more practical; something like cutting journey times and replacing track, renovating a station, replacing a bridge somewhere, putting in new ticket machines, cheaper prices, adverts etc etc. Given the choice between getting there 10 minutes quicker and having the internet on, I'd know what people would go for

Oh by the way, if you are on 24 hour call then WIFI on a train isn't any use at 4AM

godtabh

paulm17781 wrote: »

As I said, show me the figures.

paulm17781 wrote: »

Yes, I'd say the same of any rubbish company. There's no basis it isn't financially viable, it is just an example of Irish rail doing nothing to improve their services.

You siad it isn't financially viable

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

I wouldn't blame Irish Rail for not permitting Wifi on trains, If they could also ban the use of mobiles, video games, dvd players, Ipods and Walkmans it would make rail journeys much more pleasant and more considerate for those that want to sit back and relax. Gone were the days when one would read a book to pass the time on a journey. CIE Keep up the good work !

paulm17781 wrote:

What is clear in all battles is that they have no concern or care for what their customers want.

What customers want is a reliable and efficient service. I could nearly guarantee that given the choice between a frequent on time service over the installation of wifi I know what the customers would want.

I couldn't care less if there was wifi on a train or not. I'd rather have a train that is frequent and that runs on time

I use my 3g connection to do my work on go. It does me.

Limerick Dude

In fairness alot people these days carry laptops when travelling with irish rail, be it business folk or students. Im a student myself and i travel from Limerick to Dublin most weekends, I always have my laptop with me and having a wifi service on the train would be very handy indeed, and i must admit im very dissapointed that they are not going to be going ahead with this.

paulm17781

Hamndegger wrote: »

Ok, how much would it cost to install, how many people are liable to use it and should Irish Rail just put it in on the off chance that one may wish to use it?

I do this for a living. I'm not going to do it for Irish rail. The answer is not a whole lot, in the thousands anyway.

Hamndegger wrote: »

Or should they just put the money into something more practical; something like cutting journey times and replacing track, renovating a station, replacing a bridge somewhere, putting in new ticket machines, cheaper prices, adverts etc etc. Given the choice between getting there 10 minutes quicker and having the internet on, I'd know what people would go for

Won't make a difference, too small an amount.

Hamndegger wrote: »

Oh by the way, if you are on 24 hour call then WIFI on a train isn't any use at 4AM

Do you know the difference between night time and 24 hours? If I'm not in work and I decide to go to Cork, I can be called on the train. See where this is going?

kearnsr wrote:

You siad it isn't financially viable

No, no I didn't. "There's no basis it isn't financially viable" the bolding was done by you.

kearnsr wrote:

What customers want is a reliable and efficient service. I could nearly guarantee that given the choice between a frequent on time service over the installation of wifi I know what the customers would want.

Well, we don't have Wi-fi yet and the trains are woeful. I don't see keeping wi-fi off the trains helping this. They could do both though that maybe too much for them. Customers would be impressed then.

kearnsr wrote:

I couldn't care less if there was wifi on a train or not. I'd rather have a train that is frequent and that runs on time

I use my 3g connection to do my work on go. It does me.

Well in that case. I'm clearly wrong to point out how Wi-fi is better and I know a 3G connection won't do me or many others to get into their office VPNs. If you're happy, that's what matters. :rolleyes:

godtabh

paulm17781 wrote: »

Won't make a difference, too small an amount.

Its still a small amount that could be better used else where

paulm17781 wrote: »

No, no I didn't. "There's no basis it isn't financially viable" the bolding was done by you.

Still reads as

paulm17781 wrote:

There's no basis it isn't financially viable

Still reads as isn't financially viable as orginally posted by you regardless of the bold type

Well, we don't have Wi-fi yet and the trains are woeful. I don't see keeping wi-fi off the trains helping this. They could do both though that maybe too much for them. Customers would be impressed then.

And having wifi will make the trains better? A rail company should concentrate on running a train company first and an internet train second

paulm17781 wrote:

Well in that case. I'm clearly wrong to point out how Wi-fi is better and I know a 3G connection won't do me or many others to get into their office VPNs. If you're happy, that's what matters.

apperatnley its what makes you happy that matters.

I get the train every day. Its the suburban but still a train none the less. I'm not the only one using their 3g connection for work.

Most users need to check their emails. Blackberry and 3g are more than enough to do this.

token56

If they could just get me to work and home on time on a regular basis I would organise a parade for them

trellheim

The last few weeks I've been using [ or trying to use ] Voda 3G Dublin-Limerick and vice versa on the choo choo.

Pure crap. Signal bar usually 1 or less and only in range for 50% of journey, very slow when it was.


As for Wi-Fi, it wouldn't cost much to hook up each carriage with a wireless box, then put the server somewhere in the van.

Where are you going to get the wire to the Internet ? a long line trailing behind the train to Dublin ?

Ham'nd'egger

Paul, once again how much give or takewould it actually cost to install WIFI on inter city trains, including a reasonable amount to pay for the running cost (maintaining and renewing when needed) and relevant networking connections for same per year?

Bear in mind that there is 184 22000 Class railcars, 59 Mark 4s on Dublin-Cork, 28 De Dietrich on Dublin-Belfast, 83 Mark 3's (Soon to be phased out) and 25 Mark 3A push pulls; a fleet of 379 passenger coaches and railcars to fit out.

paulm17781

Hamndegger wrote: »

Paul, once again how much give or takewould it actually cost to install WIFI on inter city trains, including a reasonable amount to pay for the running cost (maintaining and renewing when needed) and relevant networking connections for same per year?

I'd have to see how they were sourcing the connections for the trains. The actual cost to network the train would be at most 10k, that is an over estimate. I haven't seen how they were going to get the internet to the train. There would be minimum maintenance needed on this provided it was done right.

Hamndegger wrote: »

Bear in mind that there is 184 22000 Class railcars, 59 Mark 4s on Dublin-Cork, 28 De Dietrich on Dublin-Belfast, 83 Mark 3's (Soon to be phased out) and 25 Mark 3A push pulls; a fleet of 379 passenger coaches and railcars to fit out.

Once they source the "internet" (I'm being no technical) on the routes, it is only how to do the trains, that really is quite low cost. I would need to see what they were planning but I wouldn't think it would be that much. It would improve the customer aspect in one regard and look better.

me wrote:

There's no basis it isn't financially viable

Kearnsr wrote:

Still reads as isn't financially viable as orginally posted by you regardless of the bold type

It only reads as that if you ignore half the sentence.

I'm going to stop arguing with you (Kearnsr) now. It is pointless. I know what is a better technology and how not to do networks half-a***d. I know how a company should provide a decent service. If you're happy with mediocrity, well be it. .

alpha2zulu

Bear in mind that given the record of irish rail this could have proved the death knell for WI-FI.
Back in the mid 90's (if memory serves me ):D IE introduced callcard phones in the restaurant cars of all MK3's, only to be removed a few years later through lack of use and the mobile phone revolution.

godtabh

paulm17781 wrote: »

It only reads as that if you ignore half the sentence.

paulm17781 wrote: »

Yes, I'd say the same of any rubbish company. There's no basis it isn't financially viable, it is just an example of Irish rail doing nothing to improve their services.

There is the full sentence. Still reads that it is not financially viable.

paulm17781 wrote: »

I'm going to stop arguing with you (Kearnsr) now. It is pointless.

Why is it pointless? Because I dont accept your argument?

paulm17781 wrote: »

I know what is a better technology and how not to do networks half-a***d. I know how a company should provide a decent service.

If you're happy with mediocrity, well be it. .

Nots not mediocrity if it meets your needs

jjbrien

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I wouldn't blame Irish Rail for not permitting Wifi on trains, If they could also ban the use of mobiles, video games, dvd players, Ipods and Walkmans it would make rail journeys much more pleasant and more considerate for those that want to sit back and relax. Gone were the days when one would read a book to pass the time on a journey. CIE Keep up the good work !

I would not agree with this. I travel quite alot an need my mobile, my mp3 player keeps me entertained on the train. What I would suggest like what NSB have in Norway is that they have a quite carage and a family carage as well. Works well in Norway and have seen it in opeation in the UK as well.

On the wifi issue whilts I would like to have this on the train the practalities are not good. In the UK only one of the train opperatators have this in place. IE and cie should be working more on increasing the customer experince as a whole.

Victor

Ok, rather than arguing with each other, how about making a suggestion as to how such a system might work?

Note:
1. Trains sometimes operate in tunnels, cuttings and narrow valleys with limited coverage.
2. How much would it cost and how would it be funded?
3. How would costs be re-couped? How would data be billed and how would money be collected?
4. Would you equip entire trains or just a limited number of cars, e.g. first class and one other?
5. What trains do you equip?
6. How would you deal with the whiners who say that the connections is too slow compared to Y or because of X?
7. What equipment would be fitted?
8. How do you deal with security issues?

godtabh

Victor wrote: »

Ok, rather than arguing with each other, how about making a suggestion as to how such a system might work?

Note:
1. Trains sometimes operate in tunnels, cuttings and narrow valleys with limited coverage.
2. How much would it cost and how would it be funded?
3. How would costs be re-couped? How would data be billed and how would money be collected?
4. Would you equip entire trains or just a limited number of cars, e.g. first class and one other?
5. What trains do you equip?
6. How would you deal with the whiners who say that the connections is too slow compared to Y or because of X?
7. What equipment would be fitted?
8. How do you deal with security issues?

Do you not think there could be the very reasons why Irish Rail did want to install it?

Again I dont see the point of providing a service that does nothing for the core business of Irish Rail.

The money spent on the installation of wifi could be put to far better use. Improving the PA systems in stations for example

Ham'nd'egger

This issue was mentioned on George Hook tonight. The technology expert said that he had heard that there may be an issue with Irish Rail communication radio frequencies and WIFI clashing with each other that means it would be problematic to install; I am sure that it will be repeated overnight or on podcast one of the days.

Paul, when you mention €10k; is that €10k per train or €10k for all the trains?

godtabh

Hamndegger wrote: »

This issue was mentioned on George Hook tonight. The technology expert said that he had heard that there may be an issue with Irish Rail communication radio frequencies and WIFI clashing with each other that means it would be problematic to install; I am sure that it will be repeated overnight or on podcast one of the days.

Paul, when you mention €10k; is that €10k per train or €10k for all the trains?

Is that that rain raido that causes the interference?

How many "sets" of trains would there be?

jjbrien

Considering IE installed Signs on the Maynooth line at Coolmine and never got them to work how do you expect these guys to opperate wifi. Could you imagine asking them for help connecting to it. You are taking about a company when you call their infromation line they still work on paper timetables so how do you expect them to understand wifi.

KC61

kearnsr wrote: »

How many "sets" of trains would there be?

31 x 3 car Intercity railcars
10 x 6 car Intercity railcars
5 x 6 car long distance commuter sets
8 x Dublin/Cork sets (including spares)
4 x Dublin/Belfast sets (including spares)

(And potentially 6 Mark 3 sets)

So that is 64 sets (leaving out commuter stock).

wwhyte

jjbrien wrote: »

Considering IE installed Signs on the Maynooth line at Coolmine and never got them to work how do you expect these guys to opperate wifi. Could you imagine asking them for help connecting to it. You are taking about a company when you call their infromation line they still work on paper timetables so how do you expect them to understand wifi.

Why is there an assumption that Irish Rail would install and maintain the network? This is exactly the kind of thing that Bitbuzz or Eircom WiFi do. It's not exactly the case that every cafe that offers WiFi understands how to manage the network: they get a provider to install and run it, and split the costs somehow. The same for rail -- fitting may be slightly more complicated but I'm sure there are people who know how to do it. WiFi could probably be provided in such a way that there's virtually no cost to Irish Rail in terms of using technical staff, only the cost of taking carriages out of service for long enough to equip them and the cost of the management time it takes to get the best deal.

And there's clearly a competitive advantage to getting it in. On the New York-Boston run, some of the coaches now have WiFi and Amtrak doesn't. That makes it easier for the coaches to get travellers. The nature of the business is you have to keep improving your service or lose to the competition. I agree it'd be nice to see punctuality improved, but I don't see why we can't push for both.

godtabh

wwhyte wrote: »

And there's clearly a competitive advantage to getting it in. On the New York-Boston run, some of the coaches now have WiFi and Amtrak doesn't. That makes it easier for the coaches to get travellers. The nature of the business is you have to keep improving your service or lose to the competition. I agree it'd be nice to see punctuality improved, but I don't see why we can't push for both.

Who would Irish Rail be competing against?

markpb

kearnsr wrote: »

Who would Irish Rail be competing against?

Buses, cars?

serfboard

wwhyte wrote: »

Why is there an assumption that Irish Rail would install and maintain the network? This is exactly the kind of thing that Bitbuzz or Eircom WiFi do. It's not exactly the case that every cafe that offers WiFi understands how to manage the network: they get a provider to install and run it, and split the costs somehow. The same for rail -- fitting may be slightly more complicated but I'm sure there are people who know how to do it. WiFi could probably be provided in such a way that there's virtually no cost to Irish Rail in terms of using technical staff, only the cost of taking carriages out of service for long enough to equip them and the cost of the management time it takes to get the best deal.

OK then, that provides the basis for a solution. Why have IE split the costs though? If it's as cheap to install as the OP says it is, why aren't Bitbuzz/eircom banging on IE's door offering to install it for free, and then taking the revenue from it as I'm sure they will be aware how to charge for it.

So, IE could put it out to tender on the following basis:

1. All installation and maintenance costs are borne by the provider (apparently very cheaply we've been told).
2. The winning tender will be the one who agrees to share the most revenue with IE.

And then, if there are any problems with the service, IE can tell the punters to contact the provider.

RedPlanet

How come Europe can figure this stuff out and we Irish can't?
IE is like a 3rd world country.

mickoneill30

For the people who want internet access let them get their own wireless connections. My users are supplied with O2 3g modems. Several of them have reported that it's been acceptable on their train trips. It flicks between Edge / HSDPA / GPRS as they're travelling and they get the odd disconnect but for business users (surfing / email) that's good enough.

If you're so important as to be on call 24 hours then if you need access during an emergency get off the train and use your 3G modem or fixed internet.

For the people who want better trains let IE worry about that. They're doing a crap enough job with the trains. We don't want them worrying about internet access problems too.
Step one might be to provide enough seats. You're not going to be surfing with your wireless enabled carraige if you can't sit down and open your laptop or if the train is cancelled because some driver slept in.

axer

Probably wouldnt make sense to have wifi on every carraige. Would make more sense to have few carraiges only with the wifi. Not sure about the costs or how they would maintain an internet connection though.

godtabh

markpb wrote: »

Buses, cars?

Thats not what the poster wanted. He was giving an example of on train provider having wifi and picking that provider over another that does not have wifi.


Out of interest can bus and cars have wifi similar to trains? My understanding is that they cant

markpb

kearnsr wrote: »

Thats not what the poster wanted. He was giving an example of on train provider having wifi and picking that provider over another that does not have wifi

Perhaps but he asked who they're in competition with and that's the honest answer. If they want to stay competitive and not lose business to buses or cars, they need to get the basics right *and* they need to offer incentives such as wifi.

godtabh

markpb wrote: »

Perhaps but he asked who they're in competition with and that's the honest answer. If they want to stay competitive and not lose business to buses or cars, they need to get the basics right *and* they need to offer incentives such as wifi.

The incentives should be for the masses not for the select few who may pay to use wifi.

In order to entice people to use the rail they need to offer an efficient reliable serve.

The money spent on wifi could be better spent on upgrading/fixing station information boards along the Maynooth line.

I'm sure alot of people could think of things they would rather spend money on than wifi.

John_C

kearnsr wrote: »

The incentives should be for the masses not for the select few who may pay to use wifi.

A lot of people use the internet these days.

L1011

kearnsr wrote: »

Thats not what the poster wanted. He was giving an example of on train provider having wifi and picking that provider over another that does not have wifi.


Out of interest can bus and cars have wifi similar to trains? My understanding is that they cant

Buses probably but would have more overhead obstructions. The backlink is provided by satellite. Cars would be even harder again.

Buses would be VERY uncomfortable to use a laptop on vs. a table in a train. Cars lethal if you're driving

aliveandkicking

A little bit of perspective to counter a lot of the crap posted on the previous 3 pages (I'm looking at you kearnsr)

GNER steams ahead with on-train Wi-Fi

Half million now signed up for the service

Long-distance train operator GNER has announced that half a million people have now used its on-train Wi-Fi service. The company first trialled the service in 2003 before rolling it out along the company's Mallard routes to the north east of England and Scotland operating out of London's King's Cross.
The company has reported a 77 per cent increase in monthly usage figures since it became the first UK train operator to roll out WiFi across its entire fleet last October.
GNER has polled its users and, unsurprisingly, 85 per cent were using the Wi-Fi for work. Apparently, those from the East Midlands are most likely to use the wireless access for work rather than leisure. Almost a fifth of all WiFi users (19 per cent) use the wireless to research travel information.
"It's great to see that GNER travellers are embracing the digital revolution and using WiFi for a whole host of different purposes, whether checking emails or shopping for the latest bargains," said GNER's Alan Hyde in a statement.
Wi-Fi access is free with first class tickets, but is available for a fee in standard class - a not inconsiderable £2.95 for 30 minutes.
GNER's onboard Wifi service improves the travelling experience for business passengers and delivers a valuable reason for them to upgrade - First Class passengers receive free Internet access.
As well as improved customer service and the opportunity for more productive travelling, onboard Wifi delivers a USP that travel by planes and cars can't match and this is a key differentiator when considering which mode of transport is most appropriate. Demonstrating pioneering and progressive services for customers that increase revenues for rail companies, as well as creating a more positive perception of rail travel, not only helps develop greater brand appeal for GNER, it will also encourage a modal shift from other forms of transport.

You really have to wonder sometimes why we are so backward in this country.

Ham'nd'egger

GNER also spent over £1 million on this alone in 2003, ran over a year late on it and then spent a further £3.2 million by October 2006 and they charge £9.95 a day for it's use. Other networks in the UK invested in WI MAX at similar outlays but with higher passenger numbers, they can make the gamble on gaining a return on the investment.

£4.2+ million would pay a lot of additional drivers on cancelled services, buy another 3 car set of 22000 railcars, replace a few level crossings, renew the Shannon Bridge on the the Sligo line to cut 15 minutes from it's journey or replace most of the Waterford-Limerick Junction trackwork and increase it to 60MPH working and faster times on it's trips. Irish Rail just have not the passenger density on services that UK mainlines have in terms of passenger numbers to risk the injection on a potential loss making project such as this until the technology comes down in price.

L1011

It wouldn't cost 4.2+ million though. The Mk4's have much of the equipment in place, and much of GNERs costs were due to it being experimental - its not experimental any more.

godtabh

aliveandkicking wrote: »

A little bit of perspective to counter a lot of the crap posted on the previous 3 pages (I'm looking at you kearnsr)

What the higlighted points are your counter points?

• It was trialled in 2003.
  
• First class passegners get free wifi?
  
• Increase in profits
  
• and modal shift?

How does that add perspective?

The only thing that relates to a normal day to day passenger which would make up a large percentage of people using trains the only thing that relates to it is modal shift. Modal shift can be encouraged in some many different ways the most effecitve being an efficeint service with relevant up to date and easy to obtain information.

aliveandkicking wrote: »

You really have to wonder sometimes why we are so backward in this country.

We are backwards becasue Irish Rail isnt going to provide wifi?

popebenny16

Hate things like wifi. Firstly, there was a time when i could use the train as a nice excuse to have a doze going to or from a meeting in Dublin, now I'm expected to work en route.

Just as an example, I can (ie am forced) to connect to our office database and reply to calls, read the scanned post and dictate replies all via remote desktop (or something)during my so-called relaxing journey. This isnt to mention the fact that I'd have the mobile going off as well. I'd assume that if there was wi-fi this would work faster, I dont know, but Paul is the expert.

The thing is that if IE want to go to all the bother of charging extra (a good deal extra as it happens) for first class pax then they have to keep up with the times and install first class service. While I agree to a point with Kernser as well, its not like I have anywhere else to go and use the laptop with wi-fi and in the asbense of compitition what have IE got to lose, it is a selling point.

As for the costs, well, IE are so happy to advertise their new fleet, surely the wi-fi gear could have beeen stuck in at the factory?

Finally, the words "There's no basis it isn't financially viable" means its viable from a financial point of view. How anyone can read that otherwise is beyond me. Double negative, you know?