Clatter , clatter bang, oh it's the Brown bin.

ongarite

Maybe she eats veg like carrots and potatoes with skins on. I do and haven't caught some must peel veg disease.

Anyway I agree with her, its a waste and unnecessary for me and will actually cost me WAY more every year. At the moment I buy, cook and eat just what I need and have little food waste. I recycle papers, cardboard in the green bin and put out my black bin every 7-8 weeks on average.

Now Fingal CC are introducing brown bin but add 110 charge surcharge also, probably more than doubling my waste cost per year.

Jip

ongarite wrote: »

Anyway I agree with her, its a waste and unnecessary for me and will actually cost me WAY more every year. At the moment I buy, cook and eat just what I need and have little food waste. I recycle papers, cardboard in the green bin and put out my black bin every 7-8 weeks on average.

Same as ourselves, myself, wife and 2 dogs. I can understand if you were in a family situation but at the moment we only put out our black bin once every 6 or 7 weeks, don't need to avail of the now fortnightly green bin collection, the monthly suited us perfectly and produce very little waste that would go in the brown bin. With the waste we produce for it we would probably take a year to fill it.
There should be an opt out scheme for those who don't have the need for it.

dodgyme

Jip wrote: »

There should be an opt out scheme for those who don't have the need for it.

it seems to me what happened was the policy "you pay for what you use" worked which meant the Fingal started to put up the price for the bin tags. Then they had the green bins for free so they didnt want to change this because it would encourage people to compact the green bins which is not what is wanted. They dont want green bin stuff compacted. Therefore to justify a flat yearly charge they came up with the brown bin as an excuse.

What they really should have done was to leave green bin collections at once a month or possibly sell a black bin for 7 euro and charge 3 euro for a green bin (have a kinda of combo ticket.) Or else force a 10 euro charge with 7 euro for black and 3 for green bin. Brown bin is unnecessary. Why pay for stuff that is unnecessary?

ongarite

Somebody had the quote up here a while ago but the jist of it was that " You, the Dublin 15 resident are at fault for the increase in charges as you are recycling too much. We have to send out our binmen every week but you don't put the black bin out every week so to re-claim the cost to Fingal CC, we are increasing bin-tag prices and introducing flat-fee also"

PauloMN

People are never happy, it's unreal. The black bin is €8 to put out, so the less you put it out, the less you pay. This is good, both for your pocket and for the environment.

The brown bin saves me putting huge amounts of grass clippings into my black bin. I'm putting hardly anything in the black bin now, so it will only go out once a month or so.

I think the Fingal waste charges are pretty fair TBH and encourage recycling. Thumbs up from me. The €110 charge isn't just to cover the brown bin. Fingal decided to wait until they had a full black/green/brown bin service available to householders before applying the service charge. It's not like the green bin collection and waste recycling has been free all this time - it costs Fingal to provide the green bin service to all of us.

I'm sure you can send the brown bin back if you really don't want it, but hoping to avoid paying the €110 annual charge by not taking the brown bin is a bit much IMO.

As for leaving the green bin at once a month - ours is jam-packed at two weeks now that they take plastics. If you reduce the waste going in the black bin, it ends up somewhere else - in this case the green bin. A monthly collection for the green bin considering what you can now place in it would be ridiculous.

Jip

PauloMN wrote: »

The €110 charge isn't just to cover the brown bin.

This would the annual charge that was never to be brought in ?

I never said a monthly green bin collection is what they should go back to, I said we don't have any need for it, nor did I say I shouldn't have to pay the €110 annual charge because we didn't need it, in fact I never even commented on anything to do with costs.
If you read my post you'll see that we produce very little waste from our household, a back bin every 6 to 7 weeks on average and a green bin once a month so your last comment, if directed ay my post, is null and void.

So by bringing this extra bin in along with the annual charge I am no longer only paying for what I dispose of. I've never had any problem with paying for a bin tag as it meant I was paying for disposing of whatever waste I produced, but this annual charge contradicts that. Rather than this new annual charge and increase of the bin tag would have been preferable to me and others from what I can read on this forum.

dodgyme

PauloMN wrote: »

Fingal decided to wait until they had a full black/green/brown bin service available to householders before applying the service charge. .

stop telling porkies

Fingal had a black and green bin in service. Then needed more money and instead of scaling its services decided to stick in a brown bin to the mix and ask for 110 euro for it.

ongarite

OK its fine for you as you have a garden.
I don't and probably 40-50% of newer delevopments in D15 don't. Now for me this new charge is doubling my annual waste fees.
IMO it discourages recycling for apartment owners. Pay flat fee, then €8 per tag after that. It doesn't matter how little you put out your bin, its still increasing by €110 for little to no gain for me.

greatgoal

i thought that the appartments in ongar and other places in dublin 15 have the communal 1100 ltr bin as they are paying management fees to private companies?

ongarite

If you live in an apartment block with single shared entrance, then they have communal 1100ltr bins.
Apartments with their own entrances have their own 240ltr bins.

PauloMN

dodgyme wrote: »

stop telling porkies

Fingal had a black and green bin in service. Then needed more money and instead of scaling its services decided to stick in a brown bin to the mix and ask for 110 euro for it.

Porkies? Where's the porkies? I haven't paid any annual charge yet, I just got my brown bin. Nobody has had to pay the annual charge without having all 3 bins as far as I'm aware.

I'd be interested to know exactly what "scaling its services" would entail, as an alternative to applying an annual service charge.

The annual charge partially covers provision of all 3 bin collections, it's quite simple. I think it's good value for the services provided, and I cannot see anywhere in the whole country, let alone in Dublin, that has cheaper waste charges.

It also covers upgraded recycling facilities like that at Coolmine. Don't know about you, but I'd prefer to have the collections and facilities we have now with the associated costs than go back to how we were dealing with our waste 10 years ago, when we just dumped anything and everything into a big hole in the ground.

Ongarite - how exactly is recycling discouraged for apartment owners? I'd also question your estimate of 40% to 50% of newer developments in D15 not having a garden, and hence having little/no use for the Fingal brown bin. Most newer D15 properties that I'm aware of without gardens are managed by private property companies rather than Fingal.

Jip - how is my point on the increased frequency of the green bin collection "null and void"? Obviously the majority of people fill or nearly fill their green bin every two weeks now that the green bin can take plastics. Just because you don't doesn't mean that most people don't need their green bin collected every 2 weeks. I don't really see your point unless you feel you should get a reduced annual waste charge. Don't think there's much chance of that, it would be similar to me looking to pay only half of my road tax because I only use the car half as much as someone else.

Nobody likes paying bills and charges, including me, and I'm sure I'll be cursing and swearing when I do get the bill in the post. I do, however, honestly believe that it's good value for money considering what we get. If you want to see a rip off, get down to your local supermarket.

Jip

PauloMN wrote: »

Jip - how is my point on the increased frequency of the green bin collection "null and void"? Obviously the majority of people fill or nearly fill their green bin every two weeks now that the green bin can take plastics. Just because you don't doesn't mean that most people don't need their green bin collected every 2 weeks. I don't really see your point unless you feel you should get a reduced annual waste charge.

My point was in relation to you saying that you now use your green bin twice a week since you can put plastics in it but as I had already pointed out we produce very little of any kind of waste so the fact that Fingal now accept plastic makes no difference to me whatsover.

As I have also said, I'm not looking for any reduction in costs, I'm merely highlighting the fact that all the fanfare about our new brown bins and added green bin collections makes little difference to many people. I know in my block very few, if any put their green bin out for every collection, same goes for the black bin so the brown bin is not going to have any affect on most of these people.

Latchy

They (those sinister people who make decisions on our behalf ,think they are called the goverment :cool:) are thinking of giving us another weelie bin to go with the other 3 we have over here .

This is very disturbing news imo

dodgyme

PauloMN wrote: »

Nobody has had to pay the annual charge without having all 3 bins as far as I'm aware..

nobody had to pay with 2 bins. ? Its a con job, here is another bin (one you probably wont use) and give us 110 euro ...thanks.

Its a reversal of the pay for what you use policy regardless of the point that you still have the tagging system. When any nominal charging occurs, its pure rubbish (no pun intended) and a u-turn.

PauloMN wrote: »

It also covers upgraded recycling facilities like that at Coolmine...

I thought my taxes covered that. I dont use it since I got the green bin.

PauloMN wrote: »

Don't know about you, but I'd prefer to have the collections and facilities we have now with the associated costs than go back to how we were dealing with our waste 10 years ago,

Most of the inroads by the Irish state into recycling have been directed by europe so this is a mute point to me. Anyhow what we now have is a proliferation of companies competing with each other for the trash and multiple collections of multiple bins on different days, hardly environmentally friendly.? and causes litter which is not good for the environment.The charges and constant increases causes fly tipping and this is not good for the environment.?

PauloMN wrote: »

Most newer D15 properties that I'm aware of without gardens are managed by private property companies rather than Fingal..

Where I live is a newer development not managed by private property company. With 3 bins outside terraced houses the place is starting to look like a recycling facility rather then a place to live in.

PauloMN wrote: »

I do, however, honestly believe that it's good value for money considering what we get. If you want to see a rip off, get down to your local supermarket.

when private companies (as opposed to contracted services from the council) get involved in waste collection there is money to be made. I would rather my waste be collected for the right reasons, not to line people pockets.

T-Maxx

I totally agree with PauloMN. The current system works perfectly for us, though I appreciate that other people's circumstances/lifestyles differ. One has to bear in mind that FCC covers a much larger area than just bird cage housing developments and D15. There are hundreds (if not thousands) of detached houses spread throughtout the county, so I guess it works like most other systems, ie. on the basis of cross subsidising.

As a matter of interest, why wouldn't FCC want the green bins compacted?

PauloMN

Jip wrote: »

My point was in relation to you saying that you now use your green bin twice a week since you can put plastics in it but as I had already pointed out we produice very little of any kind of waste so the fact that Fingal now accept plastic makes no difference to me whatsover.

As I have also said, I'm not looking for any reduction in costs, I'm merely highlighting the fact that all the fanfare about our new brown bins and added green bin collections makes little difference to many people. I know in my block very few, if any put their green bin out for every collection, same goes for the black bin so the brown bin is not going to have any affect on most of these people.

Twice a week? I'm not that bad now...

I'd guess that for most people, the extra green bin collection is necessary. Certainly in my area which consists of a lot of families, and houses with multiple tenants, the green bins are outside almost every house every two weeks, and many of them still overflowing :mad: (personal pet hate of mine - close the lids FFS!).

Given that half of my black bin during the summer consists of grass clippings alone, I'm also delighted to have the brown bin now.

So while I appreciate that these new changes may not directly benefit you personally, they do benefit most Fingal households from what I can see.

Jip

PauloMN wrote: »

Twice a week? I'm not that bad now...

Oops

Yeah, I understand your point but I think the annual charge contradicts the point of the pay for what you throw away argument Fingal have been using for the last couple of years. It's not taking different households circumstances into account, such as those between yours and mine being a perfect example.

PauloMN

dodgyme wrote: »

nobody had to pay with 2 bins. ? Its a con job, here is another bin (one you probably wont use) and give us 110 euro ...thanks.

Its a reversal of the pay for what you use policy regardless of the point that you still have the tagging system. When any nominal charging occurs, its pure rubbish (no pun intended) and a u-turn.


I thought my taxes covered that. I dont use it since I got the green bin.


Most of the inroads by the Irish state into recycling have been directed by europe so this is a mute point to me. Anyhow what we now have is a proliferation of companies competing with each other for the trash and multiple collections of multiple bins on different days, hardly environmentally friendly.? and causes litter which is not good for the environment.The charges and constant increases causes fly tipping and this is not good for the environment.?



Where I live is a newer development not managed by private property company. With 3 bins outside terraced houses the place is starting to look like a recycling facility rather then a place to live in.


when private companies (as opposed to contracted services from the council) get involved in waste collection there is money to be made. I would rather my waste be collected for the right reasons, not to line people pockets.

So what about the "scaling of services" you mentioned previously? What's the alternative to the current system and charges?

I do see your point on the terraced house bit. Not nice having 3 bins outside the front - I wouldn't like that. Maybe there should be a different option for terraced houses with some sort of smaller combined bin.

How do you avoid using the recycling centre? I go there to get rid of old batteries, electrical items, when I do a clearout of books/magazines, old wood from DIY projects etc.. Probably go every 3 or 4 months anyway. Bottles I get rid of in the local bottle bank.

dodgyme

T-Maxx wrote: »

I totally agree with PauloMN. The current system works perfectly for us, though I appreciate that other people's circumstances/lifestyles differ?

.

I think that sentences is a contradiction in terms?

T-Maxx wrote: »

One has to bear in mind that FCC covers a much larger area than just bird cage housing developments and D15..... cross subsidising.

Again the small houses with no room for the bins cross subsiding the large houses where there is room? Kinda a odds with most environmental thinking.?

FCC seem not to give a sh&t about the "bird cage"s in dublin 15 which is kinda the problem really. These bird cages are where most people live BTW

dodgyme

PauloMN wrote: »

So what about the "scaling of services" you mentioned previously? What's the alternative to the current system and charges?.

reduce the green bin services to once ever 3 weeks.
keep black bins collection every week
no brown bins (people can compost if the want)
keep cost and charges the same as they are.

PauloMN wrote: »

I do see your point on the terraced house bit. .

but fingal havent!!!!!!!!

PauloMN wrote: »

How do you avoid using the recycling centre? .

bottle bank for bottles, batteries, old laptops etc bring to recycle at work,
green bin and black bin and have composter.

Noopti

We got our Brown Bin last week, and it resulted in confusion as to whether it was going to be collected that week, or the next. Cue lots of people putting the black bin out and it not being collected. So now a lot of people have full black and brown bins.

Anyway, that isn't my main point. Which is, are they serious about asking people to put "Meat, Fish, Poultry" into the brown bin, as it says on the leaflet?
I initially though that this couldn't be right, especially with it only being collected every other week, but I gave them the benefit of the doubt and put an out of date fish into it.

Cue coming back after long weekend to a bin FULL of maggots. So from now I won't be putting meat of any kind into the bin, I don't care what they say on the leaflet.

PauloMN

dodgyme wrote: »

reduce the green bin services to once ever 3 weeks.
keep black bins collection every week
no brown bins (people can compost if the want)
keep cost and charges the same as they are.

3 weeks is too infrequent for the green bin. Black bin can be every week, but I think the twice in 3 weeks arrangement is good and should be enough for everyone.

Composting is only suitable for certain situations. I can't just dump a pile of grass every week into a composter - it needs certain mixes of stuff and is a lot of hassle. Hence all of my grass was ending up in the black bin. Brown bin is perfect for this.

As for costs, if Fingal are having to shell out more and more for provision of these services, how can you expect not to pay more?

dodgyme wrote: »

but fingal havent!!!!!!!!

I don't argue that they should take household type into account.

dodgyme wrote: »

bottle bank for bottles, batteries, old laptops etc bring to recycle at work,
green bin and black bin and have composter.

I can't bring batteries to my bottle bank, only bottles. Can't bring old electrical stuff to work (that would raise a few eyebrows), so all that has to go to the recycling centre. Old waste bits of wood, metal, old bed sheets/textiles etc. - all need to go to the recycling centre. Again I prefer how this stuff is dealt with now rather than how we used to deal with it and I'm happy to pay towards it.

I don't get the smaller houses subsidising bigger houses bit. If you put your black bin out only every 6 to 7 weeks as you say, then you are paying much less than a bigger household who might put there's out every 2 weeks. Seems pretty fair to me.

T-Maxx

dodgyme wrote: »

.

I think that sentences is a contradiction in terms?

This is what he said:

"People are never happy, it's unreal. The black bin is €8 to put out, so the less you put it out, the less you pay. This is good, both for your pocket and for the environment.

The brown bin saves me putting huge amounts of grass clippings into my black bin. I'm putting hardly anything in the black bin now, so it will only go out once a month or so.

I think the Fingal waste charges are pretty fair TBH and encourage recycling. Thumbs up from me. The €110 charge isn't just to cover the brown bin. Fingal decided to wait until they had a full black/green/brown bin service available to householders before applying the service charge. It's not like the green bin collection and waste recycling has been free all this time - it costs Fingal to provide the green bin service to all of us.

I'm sure you can send the brown bin back if you really don't want it, but hoping to avoid paying the €110 annual charge by not taking the brown bin is a bit much IMO.

As for leaving the green bin at once a month - ours is jam-packed at two weeks now that they take plastics. If you reduce the waste going in the black bin, it ends up somewhere else - in this case the green bin. A monthly collection for the green bin considering what you can now place in it would be ridiculous."

Please tell me what is contradicting what.

dodgyme wrote: »

.
FCC seem not to give a sh&t about the "bird cage"s in dublin 15 which is kinda the problem really. These bird cages are where most people live BTW

I disagree. And like I said, Fingal is not just D15 is not just bird cages.

And again, why not compact the green bin?

dodgyme

PauloMN wrote: »

As for costs, if Fingal are having to shell out more and more for provision of these services, how can you expect not to pay more?.

i expect that when fingal issue leaflets a few years back saying you will only pay for what you use they will stick to it and not introduce a flat charge.

the brown bin is a publicity stunt to justify the new charge and its terrible the wastage of producing these bins considering its supposed to be about the environment. ya right. If this was the case private operators wouldnt be trying to get in on the act. Which only proves that fingal must be soft touches at providing the service when asking for even more cash to do so.

dodgyme

T-Maxx wrote: »

People are never happy, it's unreal

Sounds to me like you alone produce half of the rubbish in D15

T-Maxx wrote: »

I disagree. And like I said, Fingal is not just D15 is not just bird cages.

And again, why not compact the green bin?

because people in the birdcages have to eat/drink aswell. Perhaps people in the birdcages can move in and live on your vast estate?:rolleyes:

T-Maxx

Dodgy(me), to say the least...:cool:

daymobrew

Noopti wrote: »

Anyway, that isn't my main point. Which is, are they serious about asking people to put "Meat, Fish, Poultry" into the brown bin, as it says on the leaflet?
I initially though that this couldn't be right, especially with it only being collected every other week, but I gave them the benefit of the doubt and put an out of date fish into it.

Cue coming back after long weekend to a bin FULL of maggots. So from now I won't be putting meat of any kind into the bin, I don't care what they say on the leaflet.

I thought that it was recommended to wrap food in newspaper. The What Goes Where leaflet says that newspaper should not be put in the bin except when used for wrapping and lining

You can contact Fingal to check or ask advice on avoiding maggots.

FCC Brown Bins wrote:

If you would like more information in relation to the Brown Bin service please contact the Brown Bin helpline on 8906753 or email brownbins@fingalcoco.ie

Zaph

So whether I want it or not (and for the record, I don't), I got my brown bin today, which means that I'll have to stump up an extra €110 a year for a service that I don't want or need. I'm single, live alone and produce little food waste, certainly not enough to justify putting out the brown bin every two weeks, so apart from grass clippings during the summer the bin shall remain idle for the rest of the year. As for the argument that the charge means that I now have a green bin collection every two weeks, well monthly was fine for me, thanks all the same.

However, what I've heard nobody mention until I saw it on the collection calendar delivered with the bin is that there'll be one less black bin collection per month from now on. Now again this isn't a big deal to me, I put the bin out every 4-6 weeks, but it will matter to some people. So much for getting a better service from Fingal County Council as a result of the new charge, when the one element that they already charge for is being cut back.

santry_goonshow

Zaph wrote: »

So whether I want it or not (and for the record, I don't), I got my brown bin today, which means that I'll have to stump up an extra €110 a year for a service that I don't want or need. I'm single, live alone and produce little food waste, certainly not enough to justify putting out the brown bin every two weeks, so apart from grass clippings during the summer the bin shall remain idle for the rest of the year. As for the argument that the charge means that I now have a green bin collection every two weeks, well monthly was fine for me, thanks all the same.

However, what I've heard nobody mention until I saw it on the collection calendar delivered with the bin is that there'll be one less black bin collection per month from now on. Now again this isn't a big deal to me, I put the bin out every 4-6 weeks, but it will matter to some people. So much for getting a better service from Fingal County Council as a result of the new charge, when the one element that they already charge for is being cut back.

Hmm, fascinating. You should really also ask yourself the question about whether you want to or not you have to pay tax, obey traffic signals and carry a passport when you leave the country. The fact is that practically every country I've lived in has national taxation and local taxation, except Ireland. People here are fierce whingers about doing their bit, so much so that we have a phrase for it as gaeilge "An Beal Bocht", and perversely it is one of the traits that we inherited from our Anglo-Saxon conquerors, for they also gave it liberally to the USA, Austraila, bits of Africa India and elsewhere. Anyway the point is that citizens all over the world pay directly to their municipality for waste and in the context of paying the lowest rate of income tax in the EU this whinging is unjustified.

The charge was set, I believe, by Fingal County Council who you elected. If you want to cop out and say you didn't vote then you did nothing to prevent the election of these individuals. They will present for election to you and me again within the next year I think so you can ask them yourself. I'll be thanking them.

Anyway to put this is a positive light we cannot keep throwing unsorted waste into holes in the ground. It doesn't matter a whit how wide the intervals are b/t you putting your bin out. I'm in Fingal and I'm happy to pay because the Council is finally doing the right thing. The black bin service directly poisions the soil directly under the dumps, and over it and all around it because of whats called leechate. It emits gases which are harmful to your health and the environment in general. The brown waste is used to make fertiliser for all the lovely flowers in the parks, or if its used to replace inefficient streetlights (energywise) or put in playgrounds to make the current generation of puddingers exercise a bit more then I'm all for that too. Or maybe I shouldn't contribute because I don't use the local park?

God bless democracy. There is no other option to recycling.

Zaph

santry_goonshow wrote: »

Hmm, fascinating. You should really also ask yourself the question about whether you want to or not you have to pay tax, obey traffic signals and carry a passport when you leave the country. The fact is that practically every country I've lived in has national taxation and local taxation, except Ireland. People here are fierce whingers about doing their bit, so much so that we have a phrase for it as gaeilge "An Beal Bocht", and perversely it is one of the traits that we inherited from our Anglo-Saxon conquerors, for they also gave it liberally to the USA, Austraila, bits of Africa India and elsewhere. Anyway the point is that citizens all over the world pay directly to their municipality for waste and in the context of paying the lowest rate of income tax in the EU this whinging is unjustified.

I have no problem with paying for the waste collection under the current scheme, it's the introduction of the flat fee I object to as I will get very little benefit out of the new arrangements. An increase in the cost of the black tag and a separate green/brown tag costing a couple of euros is more equitable imo, as it makes people pay directly for what they are disposing of.

santry_goonshow wrote: »

The charge was set, I believe, by Fingal County Council who you elected. If you want to cop out and say you didn't vote then you did nothing to prevent the election of these individuals. They will present for election to you and me again within the next year I think so you can ask them yourself. I'll be thanking them.

Well actually I didn't vote them in because I wasn't living in this area at the time of the last local elections. I fully intend to bring the issue up with anyone who calls to my door next year looking for a vote.

santry_goonshow wrote: »

Anyway to put this is a positive light we cannot keep throwing unsorted waste into holes in the ground. It doesn't matter a whit how wide the intervals are b/t you putting your bin out. I'm in Fingal and I'm happy to pay because the Council is finally doing the right thing. The black bin service directly poisions the soil directly under the dumps, and over it and all around it because of whats called leechate. It emits gases which are harmful to your health and the environment in general. The brown waste is used to make fertiliser for all the lovely flowers in the parks, or if its used to replace inefficient streetlights (energywise) or put in playgrounds to make the current generation of puddingers exercise a bit more then I'm all for that too. Or maybe I shouldn't contribute because I don't use the local park?

God bless democracy. There is no other option to recycling.

Your assumption is that I sling everything into my black bin and that's that. In fact I recycle just about anything I can, hence the need to put out the black bin so infrequently. However, as I pointed out earlier, my levels of brown waste other than grass clippings during the summer, are so small that there's no justification for putting the bin out.

Basically my point is that people in my circumstances are being penalised heavily for the new waste collection arrangements when an alternative charging system would be much fairer.