Manners anyone?

Velvet Vocals

Joe Robot wrote: »

You can say the same about posters in general, or even people in general. Some are nice, some aren't. But that's life.

Fair point.... I'm really starting to regret posting this now [insert preferred rolleyes here]

Overheal

In response to the preferred rolleyes:



In regard to te rude mods: yesh. I've encountered a few. But I've also encountered some good ones when being beraded or PM'd (and you know who you are and you know who you aren't). In a couple of those cases yeah, they just come off as muppets with sticks. In once or two cases though the mod will even take the time to explain their position, so even coming off as bitchy its easy to see what they put up with and where you stand.

Anyway rudeness begets rudeness and all that. Its when you're polite with a mod and they're still being the same cúnt about it that it can really get on your nerves. Tempted though I am to name names, that would just be rude.

Karl Hungus

Velvet Vocals wrote: »

You see, thats the way I'd like to be spoken to.

So you want your warnings sugar-coated? "Pretty please, don't spam if it isn't too much trouble for you, thanks very very much, I'm eternally in your debt." and so forth?

Now, don't think this as rude, but the mods aren't here to hold a user's hand, treat everyone with kid gloves, and be super-nice even to the most brash individuals. I certainly don't try to be rude if I have to hand out a warning, but unfortunately it's a warning, not a polite request, and it has to be clear and get the point across.

Nailz

rb_ie wrote: »

OP: To be honest with ya, I have to disagree. Any time I've had to interact with a moderator on more than a user to user basis, they've always been polite.

Take Terrys last pm to me for example

Nesf in particular is a shining example of a good/fair/polite/nice moderator so don't tar them all with the same brush, like all walks of life there'll be a few bad apples but they'll get their comeuppance.

Thats manners, but you lot are only polite to each other! Only messing! But it's only the few mods that do be rude, I notice the likes of Xavi, PHB, Karl and the few do be quite mannerly. Karl for one thanked me straight after digging out shìt on the music forum to clean up. So I don't agree completely with the generalisation of them, but I think a few can brush up.

tbh

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Now, don't think this as rude, but the mods aren't here to hold a user's hand, treat everyone with kid gloves, and be super-nice even to the most brash individuals. I certainly don't try to be rude if I have to hand out a warning, but unfortunately it's a warning, not a polite request, and it has to be clear and get the point across.

ah - it takes as much effort to write a polite pm as a sarky one tbh. Even if the user is a dick and being abusive, still the same amount of effort. OP, if you have a problem with a specific mod, which you obviously do, would you ever name them so we can judge the case on its merits. I know the generalisation thing has been done to death but "are mods rude?" yeah. "Are girls rides?" yeah. You see what I mean?

Karl Hungus

tbh wrote: »

ah - it takes as much effort to write a polite pm as a sarky one tbh. Even if the user is a dick and being abusive, still the same amount of effort.

I'm hardly advocating being sarky here, but rather that if a warning is issued, it's not exactly meant to be a polite request, and that means if I have to warn them that they'll get a ban, that's exactly what I'll say. There's nothing sarcastic about it, or intentionally rude.

RoundyMooney

You have to remember too that some people (not necessarily the OP) don't react well to being told what to do, or to control.

Where I don't see the logic behind something, I *am* one of those people

Sparky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1sZLSO9va0

RoundyMooney

Rb

RoundyMooney wrote: »

You have to remember too that some people (not necessarily the OP) don't react well to being told what to do, or to control.

Where I don't see the logic behind something, I *am* one of those people

If someone feels at a loss (e.g banned from a forum) then they're not going to take being spoken down to well, or blunt replies from moderators. It's not something that happens often, but it does happen and the less of it that takes place, the less píssed off users there are.

RoundyMooney

rb_ie wrote: »

If someone feels at a loss (e.g banned from a forum) then they're not going to take being spoken down to well, or blunt replies from moderators. It's not something that happens often, but it does happen and the less of it that takes place, the less píssed off users there are.

Quite correct. I was banned once from PI, for a week, because I didn't refresh a page before posting by quick reply (so missed a mod warning). I was, well, not happy, which is kind of dumb really in retrospect, when I realised I was getting narked over an internet forum

Minimising a breakdown in communication is the key, by making sure that regular rule breaches are highlighted where possible. It's an ongoing problem on adverts tbh, because n00bs who have never posted on boards sign up and post away.

We cannot legislate for everything though. Not only will some people (the type of people who make instructions on airline peanuts necessary) break the rules anyway, others will break them in full knowledge of their presence and application.

The latter group may get less latitude than the former, but moderators are both voluntary here, and human, and we don't have a call-centre-esque list of twenty things to do on the wall when an issue arises.

It's worth noting too, that many many users breeze through boards with no issues with four star users at all. If someone is getting mod attention again and again, then there is another issue at play.

Rb

RoundyMooney wrote: »

The latter group may get less latitude than the former, but moderators are both voluntary here, and human, and we don't have a call-centre-esque list of twenty things to do on the wall when an issue arises.

I was just thinking about this actually. Given the sheer size of Boards now, and with the addition of so many users who've never used a forum before Boards, maybe it would be a good idea to draw up a list of procedures for certain incidents that pop up from time to time?

I mean, it's not a company that's being ran, but to the average users Boards is seen as a heirarchy with the admins being the bosses at the top, and the moderators being those in control, the "managers" should we say who are also "customer representatives" should an issue arise. They're those who ensure the smooth running of the site.

It'd also set a standard for moderators and would make it easier to track which moderators are problematic, and would create a clear line of communication from the users through to the admins.

I.e

When banning a user
-Pm user with:
-Reason for ban including links to anti-charter behaviour and quote the relevant section of the charter
-Duration of ban
-Inform user that ban will now be on their record and will be taken into consideration should they be deemed in need of disciplining again
-Details of how/where to query ban if necessary
-Query if user is happy they've all the details and understand why they've been banned

etc etc

Then

Should a banned user dispute the ban by reply
-Cite the relevant part of the Charter along with any past performance (with links) that has been taken into consideration when taking action against said user i.e provide all available information to the user to help them understand why the action was taken
-Again reference helpdesk/feedback as a means of querying the ban
-End pm informing user that you've done your best and that if they want to take it further, to go to helpdesk or feedback

etc etc


I think such procedures set out in writing would both help the moderators, as well as the users. We, as a community, have to remember that bad news travels much quicker than good news. If UserX is banned for something he thinks is unfair, and one of the more blunt mods pms him saying "this is how it is, like it or lump it" then UserX will tell his mates how we're all d1ckheads and that we're ban happy muppets, which will discourage new accounts and ad hits.


It's only an idea though, it might sound like absolute nonsense but I think with the enormous growth of the site the fact that a lot of new users will be inexperienced forum users will need to be taken into account more and more and the mod/user dealings will have to be more "formal" in order to present the site in a positive manner. It might, if anything, prevent people having to go to feedback because a mod has been unhelpful and then getting torn to shreds by people "saying it how it is" and lolcats and as I said, it would highlight mods that aren't being so helpful/problematic.

roundymooney wrote:

If someone is getting mod attention again and again, then there is another issue at play.

Oh I agree, and I think if such procedures were implemented and the user informed that "You've been banned previously for X, Y and Z, you've now been banned for blah and as a consequence, this will be the last and final chance you're given in X(the forum). Your behaviour has been recorded and will be brought to the smods/admins should another issue arise, which may result in a site-wide ban.

As I said though, some might see it as nonsense but a few changes could help grow the site even quicker, get more new accounts, more advertising hits etc and therefore more revenue for the site to make it even better.

RoundyMooney

Some good input IMHO there in fairness.

I don't want to pre-empt matters, but Feedback (not only as a forum, more as a process-call it problem resolution for want of a better term) is being looked at closely at present.

Not before time either, but the way the site is now in terms of size, it's worth looking at new ideas.

Some of the lads have come up with some very good concepts of where things need to be and how to get there.

Suffice to say, it's not something the admins are ignoring in favour of the status quo (not that people think that generally, but worth highlighting anyway).

Mr Magnolia

Manners, do indeed cost nothing.

Couple of things: as has been pointed out that's a fair aul generalization VV, one to which I don't subscribe to.

A lot of mods are more direct than others, this may be to do with the forums they moderate, the related work load, the repetiveness of posts/topics, posters ignoring charters, etc. Various fora obviously require a totally different style of moderating than others.

Some forums require you to read the charter whereas others will be fairly generic. It's up to you to differentiate, if you can't then you should read all charters. I would regard failure to familiarize ones-self with each forum's charter as 'bad manners'. Note that when I say *you* I'm speaking about posters in general (myself included).

Personally, I try and be polite. It can make for pleasant replies to infractions, it's surprising sometimes

Dudess

I've had to deal with some posters who are absolute dicks, yet I've still never been rude to them. I'm not saying I deserve a medal or anything, but I think if one is a mod, it should go with the territory to have manners. Yet the OP is right, there are a few mods who are absolute assholes - very few, mind - but they're here. I think it's appalling of them to behave so ignorantly when they've been charged with "fair" moderating.

This forum is always awash with abuse towards posters whose threads may be misguided but they still don't deserve a fraction of the crap that gets thrown at them - much of it by mods. It's clearly a place where people go with the sole intention of ridiculing/being hostile - sometimes even if the thread starter isn't wrong. There's an absolute love for just POUNCING on people here...

The Sweeper

I fail to see why I have to be nice to a whinging muppet.

Dudess

I wouldn't be particularly nice to whingers either - although I wouldn't be abusive.
But the OP isn't talking about mods being rude to whingers, she's referring to certain mods who are rude simply because they can be - even if it's just a reasonable enquiry that's being made.

Oryx

I dont think the majority of mods are rude. They can be abrupt, which is a different thing, and I can understand that if they are dealing with the 12th incident of muppetry that day. They dont have the time to sugar coat anything.

And doesnt Thaedydal invariably sign off with 'have a nice day' when issuing warnings? Sure thats lovely.

And sometimes, when a ban is so sorely deserved, it warms the heart to see it done in cold, brutal rudeness. Sometimes that just fits.

Dudess

Of course the majority of mods aren't rude, just a small few. And it's so arrogant of them to think they have the right to be like that.

Kinetic^

tbh

without names, this thread is pointless.

Beruthiel

VV

I cannot see how we can address your issue if you do not give us some links to what you are talking about.
B

Velvet Vocals

Overheal wrote:

Anyway rudeness begets rudeness and all that. Its when you're polite with a mod and they're still being the same cúnt about it that it can really get on your nerves. Tempted though I am to name names, that would just be rude.

Well exactly and I have to say that I'm pretty much never rude (not to my knowledge anyway) so when you're being nice and someone is still being a dick it kinda sticks in my craw!

Karl Hungus wrote:

So you want your warnings sugar-coated? "Pretty please, don't spam if it isn't too much trouble for you, thanks very very much, I'm eternally in your debt." and so forth?

I've never "spammed" and if you think phrases like "eternally in you debt" are what constitutes manors then clearly you don't know what manors are. Equally if you think that when someone requires direction to be given with a degree of politeness it amounts to them looking for things to sugar-coated then you are unaware of what it means to treat people respectfully. I do of course stand to be corrected

Karl Hungus wrote:

Now, don't think this as rude, but the mods aren't here to hold a user's hand, treat everyone with kid gloves, and be super-nice even to the most brash individuals. I certainly don't try to be rude if I have to hand out a warning, but unfortunately it's a warning, not a polite request, and it has to be clear and get the point across.

Please do not think that I'm am unaware of the difference between a warning that has to be serious and direction. It is of course to the latter that I am referring.

tbh wrote: »

ah - it takes as much effort to write a polite pm as a sarky one tbh. Even if the user is a dick and being abusive, still the same amount of effort. OP, if you have a problem with a specific mod, which you obviously do, would you ever name them so we can judge the case on its merits. I know the generalisation thing has been done to death but "are mods rude?" yeah. "Are girls rides?" yeah. You see what I mean?

Honestly I don't have an issue with one specific mod. If I did, I would go down the road of, this is what was said and by whom. But really, what I was trying to convey in my OP was my general experience with dealing with "some" mods since I joined. This is not genralising, it's merely expressing what my overall experience has been. And judging from the reply's here and from discussions I've had with others it seems that I am not the only one. So rather then constantly having to go down the road of "This mod said this and I'm outraged" every time... I thought I'd just bring it to everyones attention and maybe mods (yes in general) would take note.
Do you see what I'm getting at?

leninbenjamin

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

I fail to see why I have to be nice to a whinging muppet.

it's to do with not inciting them. seriously, i've had some experience on sites where the retard factor is a multiple of boards.ie. you just don't give them a single shred to jump on or else your workload can increase by a multiple.

you'd also be surprised at the amount of retards who actually turn out to be all right after a quiet little word. it's in everyone's interests for the mods to be nice.

togster

DesF wrote: »

Links to back this up please.

Nice generalisation about ALL mods btw.

That's a sure fire way to make progress.

LOL :D:D:D

Velvet Vocals

Dudess wrote: »

I wouldn't be particularly nice to whingers either - although I wouldn't be abusive.
But the OP isn't talking about mods being rude to whingers, she's referring to certain mods who are rude simply because they can be - even if it's just a reasonable enquiry that's being made.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dragan

Velvet Vocals wrote: »

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus, you've been asked a million times by now for some examples. Without them your issue is pointless tbh.

tbh

Velvet Vocals wrote: »

Honestly I don't have an issue with one specific mod. If I did, I would go down the road of, this is what was said and by whom. But really, what I was trying to convey in my OP was my general experience with dealing with "some" mods since I joined. This is not genralising, it's merely expressing what my overall experience has been. And judging from the reply's here and from discussions I've had with others it seems that I am not the only one. So rather then constantly having to go down the road of "This mod said this and I'm outraged" every time... I thought I'd just bring it to everyones attention and maybe mods (yes in general) would take note.
Do you see what I'm getting at?

yes. Some mods are rude. Some users are rude, but you don't see me starting feedback threads about it

g'em

Someone came to the Fitness forum yesterday and made innapropriate comments directed at a poster. I warned them, politely, in thread not to do it again. Then I got called an ass clown and they were banned. I got a PM telling me I was retarded. Needless to say they are now site-banned.

This poster was a rude eejit, but as posters go he/she/it is a minority just as you will find a minority of manner-less moderators. Seriously, what decorum and composure we have can be sorely tested, even in the most mannerly of us.

And to reiterate, linkage?

Velvet Vocals

Dragan wrote: »

Jesus, you've been asked a million times by now for some examples. Without them your issue is pointless tbh.

if you could just read what I've already posted.....

velvet vocals wrote:

Honestly I don't have an issue with one specific mod. If I did, I would go down the road of, this is what was said and by whom. But really, what I was trying to convey in my OP was my general experience with dealing with "some" mods since I joined. This is not genralising, it's merely expressing what my overall experience has been. And judging from the reply's here and from discussions I've had with others it seems that I am not the only one. So rather then constantly having to go down the road of "This mod said this and I'm outraged" every time... I thought I'd just bring it to everyones attention and maybe mods (yes in general) would take note.
Do you see what I'm getting at?