Cost of living

SkepticOne

juuge wrote: »

Increased fuel prices affect everyone so I believe we need to have the government intervene and fix the price of fuel and stop these greedy b*asta*ds making a quick buck !.

The Mugabe solution

juuge

SkepticOne wrote: »

The Mugabe solution

lol.:)
Yeah maybe you're right, let them charge whatever they like, we will pay it anyway. Who said the paddys are thick?

Time Magazine

sovtek wrote: »

Brian should get the competition authority to raid pretty much every industry in ireland and break up the cartels that pass for businesses here. That'd be a start

The Competition Authority are desperately underfunded. The government do not feed the mouth that bites them: the Authority would (I expect) be far more critical of government policy if they had the resources to fully investigate them.

juuge wrote: »

The biggest scandal of the lot is petrol & diesel prices.
As soon as there is a mention of stock-exchange oil prices rising the local garages are out there on their little step-ladders putting up their prices the next day.

God forbid that retailers raise prices when costs increase.

Retailers can't help that increased demand from China and India have made oil prices rise.

I've been noticing the three or four petrol stations that I pass each morning on my way into work and each one is increasing their prices for both petrol and diesel every couple of days.

That's because the price they're paying is increasing every couple of days.

This is just profiteering.

No it's not.

Increased fuel prices affect everyone so I believe we need to have the government intervene and fix the price of fuel and stop these greedy b*asta*ds making a quick buck !.

There is only so much oil to go around. China want more. If they're willing to pay more than us for a barrel, who do you think Saudi will sell to? If the government intervene, we'll have no oil.

Oil is running out. Prices are rising. Deal with it.

juuge

Antithetic wrote: »

Oil is running out. Prices are rising. Deal with it.

You are so naive it’s really frightening !
Our local garages get a tanker of petrol/diesel delivered every two to three weeks and the price to the consumer goes up every couple of days. Amazing how you can’t understand this – then again perhaps you have a vested interest.;)

edanto

If your local garage man doesn't charge the increasing price - as opposed to the price that he paid for it - how will he be able to fund his next delivery at the high price?

As far as the cost of living - and whether we'll ever return to low oil and food prices - I would bet a mortgage that the answer is no. Such a huge proportion of world oil gets used in food production - between farm machinery, pesticide, fertiliser, refrigeration & transport, when oil runs out our food production strategy is in trouble. There's just no possibility of a return to the period of plenty at the end of the last century.

Of course, as ever, we're shielded from the worst of it. Take Haiti for example - there people can spend up to 80% of household income on basic foodstuffs so they've been hit a lot harder by the increasing prices.

As to what Cowen and us should do here - well, it would be great if they funded The Competition Authority properly, but as Anti pointed out that's unlikely for political reasons. It's not the governments responsibility to lower prices. It's yours and mine.

A few times lately, I've made a point of refusing to buy something when it was just ridiculously expensive. Not being rude, just if the price for something isn't clear, asking someone that looks like a manager 'what price is this, please?' and then deciding to buy it or not depending on the price instead of just paying for it and giving out online.

If we want cheaper prices, shop owners have to hear from their managers that people are refusing to buy things and they have to notice a drop in sales. That will never happen unless you, your family and friends and thousands of others decide to change things with their own mouths and feet.

Time Magazine

juuge wrote: »

You are so naive it’s really frightening !

Someone calling for price control on an vital imported good calling me naïve? Heh!

Our local garages get a tanker of petrol/diesel delivered every two to three weeks and the price to the consumer goes up every couple of days. Amazing how you can’t understand this

Do you think rising oil prices are due to increased demand or greed? The actual price of oil changes several times each day. I'll try make it simplistic. Oil is essentially auctioned off to wholesalers. When China and Inida require more oil with a fixed supply, the price goes up. Surely you accept that these price rises will ultimately be borne by the consumer. Let's say retailers can change their prices daily or whenever they get deliveries. Daily price changes are better. Say there are two petrol stations that each get deliveries once a month, one on the 1st and the other on the 15th. The price of oil is constantly rising. If on the 15th of the month Number 2 ups his price, it will be higher than what Number 1 is charging because oil was cheaper two weeks ago. So nobody is buying from Number 2 until the 1st of next month when Number 1 ups his price even further. This isn't in the interests of consumers because if everyone goes the Number 1, he will run out of oil quicker and perhaps run out of oil. So everyone then goes to Number 2 anyway. It's a simple problem of unsustainable prices. The net effect - I'll find you a paper that shows this mathematically if you really want and if I have the time - is, believe it or not, consumers ultimately pay in accordance with the price raises from the manufacturer. But we'd already accepted that the consumer is going to pay, so that's not surprising. It's not surprising that you can't "cheat the market" by holding prices constant for a while. If you extend the analysis to a more realistic world where there are many petrol stations, say 30, each getting a delivery once a month, you'll have prices changing every day anyway. Again, you can't "cheat the market" with price stickiness. It's far, far, far better to just have prices reflecting reality. It's going to happen anyway.

then again perhaps you have a vested interest.;)

Yes, I'm an oil merchant. This has nothing go to do with basic economics whatsoever. I am solely trying to ensure the government don't introduce price controls because I will personally profit from it.

Well... I guess that's a more reasonable thing to suggest than limiting prices.

sovtek

Tea drinker wrote: »

Looks like Brian Cowen is taking some affirmative action. Don't have a linky yet but he made a statment to the effect the will be entering correspondence with UK suppliers to explain the disparity between Irish and UK prices. And exacting some leverage if they don't get a suitable response

Well done.

While that's welcome...its not that brave. If he really wanted to do something he would start asking tough questions from businesses here at home. It's the Irish businesses that have been screwing us for far too long.
First stop IMHO is the VFI.
For those who suggest it's up to us to vote with our feat...that ignores the reality of the "island" economy. There is often no choice and the government does absolutely nothing to bust up price fixers and gougers.

edanto

sovtek wrote: »

For those who suggest it's up to us to vote with our feat...that ignores the reality of the "island" economy. There is often no choice and the government does absolutely nothing to bust up price fixers and gougers.

But we live in a capitalist society! Price controls are a slippery slope and given the toothlessness of the TCA and the inherent difficulties in proving price fixing (I imagine they don't take minutes of the meetings) - the state systems are practically powerless.

Of course - personally I would have a preference for a very different type of society, with a different type of corporate entity. But I'm not advocating that here, I'm just suggesting how to deal with the increasing cost of living given the capitalist society in which we live.

You say there often is no choice - and I say there is always a choice. If you think something is too expensive, don't buy it. But, but... I want it. Well, that's exactly what the shops are trying to find - the maximum that you will pay for something that you want. As long as you go back to buy it again, they're laughing all the way to the bank.

And there's no use giving out about what they charge!! It's us that pay it - we have the problem and the power to solve it.

sovtek

edanto wrote: »

But we live in a capitalist society! Price controls are a slippery slope and given the toothlessness of the TCA and the inherent difficulties in proving price fixing (I imagine they don't take minutes of the meetings) - the state systems are practically powerless.

Its not that difficult. Hell the VFI have said that they would discount prices if the tax was lowered. Thats proof right there. What's lacking is a will to do anything about it and I put that down to corruption. The State already controls prices anyway.

You say there often is no choice - and I say there is always a choice. If you think something is too expensive, don't buy it. But, but... I want it.

Yes I want things like food, clothes, accomodation and hygene products.

Well, that's exactly what the shops are trying to find - the maximum that you will pay for something that you want. As long as you go back to buy it again, they're laughing all the way to the bank.

...and handing the government brown envelopes to make sure they don't do anything to make sure there is healthy competition and consumer advocacy. Ireland is the only country I've ever been in that doesn't have a consumer watchdog program much less a body doing it.

And there's no use giving out about what they charge!! It's us that pay it - we have the problem and the power to solve it.

So if we don't give out about it exactly how do we have the power to solve it?

lostexpectation

are they no day to day supermarket groceries comparison sites for ireland,can't find any

is_that_so

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/News_+_Research/Research/
But no day to day stuff, just quarterly I believe.

lostexpectation

is_that_so wrote: »

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/News_+_Research/Research/
But no day to day stuff, just quarterly I believe.

yeah really not good enough,

apparently we're all whingers (according to lenihan was it)