Italy tackles Roma Gypsies.

Dinter

marcsignal wrote: »

I'm just curious, if you saw a group of inner city Dublin kids wrecking seats and damaging a toilet door on a train, would you post on boards complaining about it ?

Possibly if there was a thread that was relevant?

marcsignal

elviscostello wrote: »

Maybe/Maybe not ... not sure unless was in the situation. why do you ask?

Because I would, the only difference is, it seems to be considered racist if you post such things about the Roma if you see them doing the same thing.

How does that work ??

_feedback_

marcsignal wrote: »

Because I would, the only difference is, it seems to be considered racist if you post such things about the Roma if you see them doing the same thing.

How does that work ??

I never questioned the fact that he posted it on boards. I questioned the fact that he tried to say that it was likely people were pickpocketed, when there was clearly no evidence that anyone was.

Until of course, he added a bit more on to his story a few posts ago. Which conveniently suggested somebody (or more) had lost money. But still gave absolutely no evidence that the Roma guys were responsible for it.

Dinter

marcsignal wrote: »

Because I would, the only difference is, it seems to be considered racist if you post such things about the Roma if you see them doing the same thing.

How does that work ??

It's because a huge amount of people have trouble understanding what racist or "bleeding heart liberal" actually mean.

They're just terms of abuse.

This is what happens when political correctness (not in a "bleeding heart liberal" sense, but in a jumped up, justifying my existence sense) impacts on freedom of speech and the right of people to have their own opinions.

As I said on another thread, if we replaced Roma with American, nobody would give a fuck what was said and this thread would have died a long time long ago.

marcsignal

elviscostello wrote: »

I never questioned the fact that he posted it on boards. I questioned the fact that he tried to say that it was likely people were pickpocketed, when there was clearly no evidence that anyone was.

Until of course, he added a bit more on to his story a few posts ago. Which conveniently suggested somebody (or more) had lost money. But still gave absolutely no evidence that the Roma guys were responsible for it.

Well I may as well admit, I'd draw the very same conclusion if I saw the old 'pushing someone into you' trick going on in a train carriage, and I would avoid the people doing it, and move away for that very reason. It is the oldest distraction crime trick in the book. Ask any self respecting Irish scumbag and they'll tell you.

I've seen Roma do the same thing in train stations in Munich. Although there aren't as many Roma here as in Dublin. That might have something to do with the fact, that the German social welfare system has a very low tolerance to people who don't want to work, who engage in anti social activity, and display a wanton disrespect their host country.

Dinter wrote: »

As I said on another thread, if we replaced Roma with American, nobody would give a fuck what was said and this thread would have died a long time long ago.

well said

Lockstep

before the race card gets played, I recently got accused of being too pc for defending travellers in the Galway city section. I also don't believe there is such thing as race. Just for the record.

Basically, I'm always shocked by the amount of Roma using children for begging. Surely this is akin to some form of child labour, making them go around with cups and stuff or just sitting for hours on end.

andyl222

This thread seems to have deteriorated into the PC brigade shouting' rascism' at anyone who says a word against Roma gypsies. This thread is about how the italian goverment are tackling the issues of Roma theft and general criminality. I work in the city centre, and have access to a secuirty radio linked to the majority of security guards on dame/georges/grafton/suffolk street area. There is an incredible amount of thefts being committed by Roma Gypsies. Its a cold hard fact, to disregard it by claiming its a generalisation is to accept Political Correctness gone mad. The sanctimonious do-gooders would do well to realise, that while they are happily rallying to the defence of the Roma community, the Roma community would just as happily throw a newspaper over their face at a bank machine and run off with 200 euro of their money.
I agree with a previous posters claim that there is a mentality amongst certain individuals to take a contrary and ludicrous defensive stance in aid of the indefensible, who would claim the majority of irish people are blatant rascists, than accept that (in this instance) the Roma Community have brought no good with them to this country only the intention to thieve and scheme and take what they can.

civis_liberalis

DesF wrote: »

It isn't racism tbh.

Come off it. Of course it's racism.

I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with the points being made by either side...

But FFS, of course it is racist.

Lockstep

Depends if the Roma are a race or not.

Although I only think there is one race, but thats just me.

Dinter

civis_liberalis wrote: »

Come off it. Of course it's racism.

I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with the points being made by either side...

But FFS, of course it is racist.

Sigh.

marcsignal

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Basically, I'm always shocked by the amount of Roma using children for begging. Surely this is akin to some form of child labour, making them go around with cups and stuff or just sitting for hours on end.

But that's my whole point kickoutthejams, if I got up tomorrow morning, and took my Romanian girlfriend's 2 kids to Munich city centre and forced them to beg, social services, and the police here, would be on me like a rash, and kick my sorry ass onto the next plane back to Dublin, for abusing 2 childern.

humanji

kickoutthejams wrote:

Depends if the Roma are a race or not.

Although I only think there is one race, but thats just me.

Wait, there's only one race and you're the only member of it? :P

Dinter

humanji wrote: »

Wait, there's only one race and you're the only member of it? :P

Kickoutthejam's gone mad with power since he started modding the WWII forum

Theta

Sam Vimes wrote: »

jonny should be careful when showing anyone he doesn't know jewellery. he shouldn't make the assumption that it's ok to let his guard down because they're irish


bear in mind that myself and SDooM both worked in phone shops and as such dealt with theiving roma scum trying to scam us with fake passports and other people's names on a daily basis. i think it's safe to say we had far more bad experiences with romas than the majority of people here and we're still saying it's wrong to make a generalisation about them, because it is

To tell you the truth and this is coming from a retail perspective, and not a phone shop where all/90% of your stock is behind the counter/store room, roma gypsies are by far the worst type of criminal element I have encountered. I work in the drinks industry ( an off licence to be exact ) and from my opinion you can predict or handle most junkie/knacks/scum ( and I'm not just talking about Irish people here before you jump on that. ) but when gypsies come in they like to do this group attack where the women come in first and go off in a group to shoplift and the men come in seconds later and try to take care of the staff by distracting and intimidating them by surrounding one member off staff by three or four of them. It can be pretty hairy I have to say and with all of the trouble I have come across in the over 7 years working in that industry thats my opinion.

As for reading through all of the posts so far I think both camps are as bad as each other ( I have painted all romas with same brush though and I accept that because of MY OWN personal experience ).

Sam Vines and SDoom complain of generalisation on the part of the other camp because they cannot prove with facts and figures that they are not correct with the ideal that the majority of romas are criminals, but should your ideas not also be considered a generalisation because you have not supplied evidence that your everyone is good at heart ideal about them is equally a generalisation because you have not proven otherwise.

At they end of the day anyone can think what they want and it is those opinions that we use day to day to judge the people around us and unless they are proven otherwise then they will continue to exist.

I agree that maybe i am incorrect in my assumption that they may all be criminals but unless someone shows me evidence to the contrary I wont change my idea's because whey should I. From working in the drinks industry for so long I expect very little from the general public regardless or who or what race they are and I have no such belief that people are good at heart.

I believe that most of the romas here are criminals because thats what I have seen.

Dudess

civis_liberalis wrote: »

Come off it. Of course it's racism.

I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with the points being made by either side...

But FFS, of course it is racist.

It really, really, really isn't. It's not the ethnic group I've a problem with, it's the criminal behaviour endemic within that ethnic group. I'm not saying all Roma are scummy criminals, then that would be racist.

Dinter

Check out the poll on the other Roma thread.

marcsignal

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055297497

Well F*ck me! Model citizens by all accounts

humanji

marcsignal wrote: »

quote=BigglesMcGee;56013086]
I make the call again to all the Roma Defenders. Show me a Roma Defender who will allow them to stay in their home for a week. How hard can that be?

Hang on ?? What point are you trying to make here with this comparison ??

There's plenty of nasty home grown Irish, some in the travelling and some in the settled community, anyone would be insane to try to deny that.

I wouldn't have any Irish person like that in my house either.[/QUOTE]
The point is that nobody who doesn't run a B&B is going to let random strangers stay in their house for a week, so demanding that someone do so to prove that their might be decent Roma knocking about is moronic.

0ubliette

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Anyone else think that people who post either 'dey turk are jerbs' or clips of said southpark episode whenever a topic on immigration comes up are just liberal apologists who have nothing to add to the argument, so just quote SP?

marcsignal

humanji wrote: »

The point is that nobody who doesn't run a B&B is going to let random strangers stay in their house for a week, so demanding that someone do so to prove that their might be decent Roma knocking about is moronic.

What about the front or back garden then? Just run the idea by the neighbours first

and for the record, I honestly don't think it's moronic at all. In my experience many defenders of Irish Travellers and Roma alike (The "Liz O Donnell's" of this world) love to lecture people about how bigoted they are, from behind their own Electric Gates.

Dinter

marcsignal wrote: »

In my experience many defenders of Irish Travellers and Roma alike (The "Liz O Donnell's" of this world) love to lecture people about how bigoted they are, from behind their own Electric Gates.

Yeah I always thought it hilarious when McDowell used to lecture us on how safe the streets had become under his stewardship.

From behind the cover of his private security (Garda) in the badlands of Ranelagh.

humanji

But it's claiming that doing something they're never going to do has to be done in order to prove themselves right, otherwise they must be wrong. What if I told you that prove all Roma are scum you must fly to the moon. You're not going to fly to the moon, so huzzah! I win the argument. It's stupid and pointless.

And of course you're not going to put them in the front garden. The neighbours would see

marcsignal

humanji wrote: »

What if I told you that prove all Roma are scum you must fly to the moon. You're not going to fly to the moon, so huzzah! I win the argument.

Eh ?? How's that then

If someone made the same assertion to me about the Chinese, I'd put 10 of them up tomorrow, without giving it a second thought, to prove my point.

Now ask yourself why?

malene

What annoys me is the whole begging thing and all these young punks and old tanned fat blokes going around. Do they get social welfare right away? When the govt issues numbers for those on live register, does it include romanians, blacks, all these people who are NOT Irish, (even though they may/may not have residency, they're still not Irish).

Why aren't gardai going around rounding all these people up and just flying them home??

Dinter

malene wrote: »

What annoys me is the whole begging thing and all these young punks and old tanned fat blokes going around. Do they get social welfare right away? When the govt issues numbers for those on live register, does it include romanians, blacks, all these people who are NOT Irish, (even though they may/may not have residency, they're still not Irish).

I'm not sure. One thing I know for a fact is that only Irish people are included in the counts that are taken on homeless people in Dublin.

Tigger

marcsignal wrote: »

Eh ?? How's that then

If someone made the same assertion to me about the Chinese, I'd put 10 of them up tomorrow, without giving it a second thought, to prove my point.

Now ask yourself why?

danny glover in lethal weapon 4

Tigger

malene wrote: »

What annoys me is the whole begging thing and all these young punks and old tanned fat blokes going around. Do they get social welfare right away? When the govt issues numbers for those on live register, does it include romanians, blacks, all these people who are NOT Irish, (even though they may/may not have residency, they're still not Irish).

Why aren't gardai going around rounding all these people up and just flying them home??

because they don't have planes or the right begging was decrimilised a coupkle of years ago

marcsignal

Tigger wrote: »

danny glover in lethal weapon 4

? Never saw it, but I feel a Monty Python song coming on

Tigger

i was gonna go either way but there are far more monty pytho refrences on the net that lethal weapon 4 ones so i was trying to redress the balance

marcsignal

Tigger wrote: »

i was gonna go either way but there are far more monty pytho refrences on the net that lethal weapon 4 ones so i was trying to redress the balance

Now that was sharp as a razor, but very subtle, hats off

BigglesMcGee

humanji wrote:

The point is that nobody who doesn't run a B&B is going to let random strangers stay in their house for a week, so demanding that someone do so to prove that their might be decent Roma knocking about is moronic.

Many people here have had random people they met on holidays stay over (Australians have cornered the market in this ) or maybe even people who turned up at parties etc stay over. Im willing to bet that, noone here, has ever had a Roma stay over or would be willing to invite one to either.

marcsignal

BigglesMcGee wrote: »

Im willing to bet that, noone here, has ever had a Roma stay over or would be willing to invite one to either.

Em......you can see where I'm living, if I made such an invite to a Roma, I feel it would be very coolly recieved

humanji

marcsignal wrote: »

Eh ?? How's that then

If someone made the same assertion to me about the Chinese, I'd put 10 of them up tomorrow, without giving it a second thought, to prove my point.

Now ask yourself why?

Ok, put up 10 chinese people in your house tomorrow, then.

BigglesMcGee wrote:

Many people here have had random people they met on holidays stay over (Australians have cornered the market in this ) or maybe even people who turned up at parties etc stay over. Im willing to bet that, noone here, has ever had a Roma stay over or would be willing to invite one to either.

How in the name of god can you think that that's the same thing? If you meet someone and get on and invite them to your house, it's not the same as going up to a complete stranger and saying "Come live with me for a week".

And just for the record, I've never met and never will meet a Roma who I'd want to do anything but walk away from.

BigglesMcGee

humanji wrote: »

Ok, put up 10 chinese people in your house tomorrow, then.



How in the name of god can you think that that's the same thing? If you meet someone and get on and invite them to your house, it's not the same as going up to a complete stranger and saying "Come live with me for a week".

And just for the record, I've never met and never will meet a Roma who I'd want to do anything but walk away from.

Sometimes i have parties at my house. Friends are welcome to, and often do bring along their friends from different ethnic groups and countries and the parties are all the better for it. And l love befriending these new people. I have no problem with this and they're welcome to crash overnight. If anyone ever turned up with Roma, they are not welcome.

Its easy to meet people if you are interested in getting to know them.

Tell you what. Why not print flyers for the next boards beers and we'll distribute them at the M50 roundabout. We can give anyone from the Roma community a free drink, just to get them there and make them feel welcome. Then we can all get to know them. Anyone who lets them mind their coats and handbags can claim that they have no problem with Roma.

marcsignal

humanji wrote: »

Ok, put up 10 chinese people in your house tomorrow, then.

There's no need for me to, nobody's complaining about Anti Social and Aggressive Chinese beggars.

I'll tell you what I will do though, you find me a link to any thread on Boards past or present, with nearly 500 posts of racist Irish people giving out sh1té, for the same reasons, about the Chinese, and I'll wire you 100Euro.

How about that ??

BigglesMcGee

marcsignal wrote: »

There's no need for me to, nobody's complaining about Anti Social and Aggressive Chinese beggars.
I'll tell you what I will do though, you find me a link to any thread on Boards past or present, with nearly 500 posts of racist Irish people giving out sh1té about the Chinese, and I'll wire you 100Euro.

How about that ??

Or how about everyone who posted, chips in a tenner and gives it to the first person who finds a Roma family and puts them up for the week in their home. They can split the money, keep it or pay the Roma to stay for the week. I figure there will be a few grand in there for them by the end of this thread.

What could be better
a heap of cash.
they get to help out the Roma and let them live well for a week.
and they get to come back here and stick it to the majority of this thread.

marcsignal

BigglesMcGee wrote: »

Or how about everyone who posted, chips in a tenner and gives it to the first person who finds a Roma family and puts them up for the week in their home. They can split the money, keep it or pay the Roma to stay for the week. I figure there will be a few grand in there for them by the end of this thread.

What could be better
a heap of cash.
they get to help out the Roma and let them live well for a week.
and they get to come back here and stick it to the majority of this thread.

And you could get one of your guests to cook us heaps of humble pie, from an old gypsy recepie

BigglesMcGee

marcsignal wrote: »

And you could get one of your guests to cook us heaps of humble pie, from an old gypsy recepie

mmmm. Sounds lovely. Cant wait.

Tha Gopher

0ubliette wrote: »

Anyone else think that people who post either 'dey turk are jerbs' or clips of said southpark episode whenever a topic on immigration comes up are just liberal apologists who have nothing to add to the argument, so just quote SP?

Seeing as the primary plot of the episode involves Randy being overly PC until it comes back to bite him on the arse (at which point he, of course, reverts to redneckism and rachizms) the irony seems lost on most of the PC gang.

"Dey tuk our jerbs"..... have these people actually seen any of the episode apart from that clip? The moral of the episode is that if you are an oversensitive dick when it comes to this issue, you may well live to regret it.

The PC guys here are all front. Defend one minute, yet if they got scammed (and tbh it would be one of the few good things the Roma have done of they relieve some of these lads of their cash) you can bet your right arm theyd rant about "those ****ing gypsies".

TomCo

Tha Gopher wrote: »

The moral of the episode is that if you are an oversensitive dick when it comes to this issue, you may well live to regret it.

I though the moral of the story was gay orgies close time holes

Lockstep

0ubliette wrote: »

Anyone else think that people who post either 'dey turk are jerbs' or clips of said southpark episode whenever a topic on immigration comes up are just liberal apologists who have nothing to add to the argument, so just quote SP?

Nothing to with liberal apologism.


This is a topic inspiring heated exchange. Hence the Rabble Rabble.
Also, I don't recall being too liberal when it comes to the Roma. Please refer to my post where I'm being PC.

Anyone else think that people who accuse others of being liberal apologists whenever a topic on immigration comes up are just people with nothing to add to the argument, so just accuse them of being liberal apologists.

DonJose

Does this sh!te ever end with these vermin. Does our government not care about the safety and well being of its citizens!!! We have absolutely ZERO immigration control in this country and the rest of the world knows it.

'Emergency care' ordered for Romanian girl living without legal guardian

A Judge has said gardaí may have to make an “emergency care order” for a 13-year-old Romanian girl living in Dublin with a man who maintains he is her uncle and guardian but has no official documentation to back-up his claims.

This allows gardaí to intervene when there are grounds for believing there is an immediate and serious risk to the health or welfare of a child. It says the Garda may, without warrant, enter, with force if needed, “any house and remove the child to safety.”

The girl, who has been in Ireland without her parents for about a month, is facing three charges for attempted thefts in Dublin city centre over recent weeks.

Judge Patrick McMahon heard at the Dublin Children’s Court today that: the girl had been living with a man who claimed to be her uncle and guardian; her parents were still in Romania; she came her on a “holiday” for an “indefinite” period and had no passport.

Garda Alan Bradley, who arrested the girl, said concerns had been raised over the identity of the man, who is aged about 30 years, and claims to be her uncle and guardian.

He said this man did not have a passport and only had photocopied identity cards.

Romanian authorities have been contacted and have informed him that if a non-parent was to bring a child out of the country they had to be in possession of a “certificate of power of attorney.”

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhgbmhausnkf/

Gran Hermano

You left out another relevant part:

The judge also said he would not grant legal aid until such a time as the man claiming to be the girl’s uncle produced “original documentation.” He also said that he was familiar with the girl’s address saying it seems it has been used by numerous other people coming before the courts.

bug

I endorse any individual who comes to this country and decides to make a family and a home here and contribute to society even in the smallest ways.
It's all significant. Bring new views, bring new ideas, new food, new anything, god knows this country needs it.

Racism, terrorists. Even credit crunch (it means recession by the way).

People who fall for these generalistic terms without assessing individual situations or the actual meaning in context are complete idiots. Its all new speak, and you are all falling for it.

Racism is a dangerous word. It started out as a good, true clear definition of one man hating another for no other reason than colour, race or creed.
Racism was a good word because it protected the victim.
Now it's been bandied about so often and used so carelessly in defense of unlawful actions and during any disputes between people of different backgrounds that it's become a scary bad word full of fear and labelling regardless of the situtaion.

Lets all generalise with new terms so people can't debate without being tagged.

Anyone who breaks the law should be sent back and any protection reliquished or freedom of travel restricted.
Enough is enough.

AckwelFoley

snyper agrees with the above post on second reading of it,

Lockstep

Why is selling roses not working?


*disclaimer to differentiate myself from bleeding hearts*

bug

I think Synper, if you actually read my post, you could quite possibily be agreeing with me.. maybe...

marcsignal

bug wrote: »

I endorse any individual who comes to this country and decides to make a family and a home here and contribute to society even in the smallest ways.
It's all significant. Bring new views, bring new ideas, new food, new anything, god knows this country needs it.

Racism, terrorists. Even credit crunch (it means recession by the way).

People who fall for these generalistic terms without assessing individual situations or the actual meaning in context are complete idiots. Its all new speak, and you are all falling for it.

Racism is a dangerous word. It started out as a good, true clear definition of one man hating another for no other reason than colour, race or creed.
Racism was a good word because it protected the victim.
Now it's been bandied about so often and used so carelessly in defense of unlawful actions and during any disputes between people of different backgrounds that it's become a scary bad word full of fear and labelling regardless of the situtaion.

Lets all generalise with new terms so people can't debate without being tagged.

Anyone who breaks the law should be sent back and any protection reliquished or freedom of travel restricted.
Enough is enough.

best post on this thread so far !

I don't even live in Dublin anymore and feel small pangs of guilt even contributing from here.....

Tigger

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Why is selling roses not working?


*disclaimer to differentiate myself from bleeding hearts*

in some cases the roses are used to disguise pickpocketing
the don't sell themnm they go ; buyarosebuyarosebuyarosebuyarose and if it is working they are breaking childlabour laws

Lockstep

Tigger wrote: »

in some cases the roses are used to disguise pickpocketing
the don't sell themnm they go ; buyarosebuyarosebuyarosebuyarose and if it is working they are breaking childlabour laws

Fair point, fair point.