Italy tackles Roma Gypsies.

monkeyfudge

Degsy wrote: »

I reckon you're trolling.

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200708/cmhansrd/cm080206/halltext/80206h0001.htm
http://www.topix.com/world/romania/2007/10/romanian-gangs-behind-85-of-atm-theft-in-uk
http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1110/atm.html
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/three-jailed-over-atm-scam-that-tapped-into-90-accounts-172562.html
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhojojauauau/

there's enough evidence as to how it works,no?

Are they not all to do with ATM skimming? A completely different crime to the one described here to which I have never heard a satisfactory explanation.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Adam

monkeyfudge wrote: »

Are they not all to do with ATM skimming? A completely different crime to the one described here to which I have never heard a satisfactory explanation.

Fine, so you haven't received a satisfactory explanation. Neither have I. But I was there. It happened. It had happened before, and I'll bet my left arm it will happen again.

Do you believe me to be lying? Or do you think my friend threw 200 quid in the Liffey and blamed it on the Romas becaues he's just so angry at the world?

Rebeller

While I wholeheartedly agree that those who are actively engaged in socially disruptive criminal activities should not be allowed to benefit from the protection of the Irish state, I am extremely uneasy with some of the language being used here:

Parasites

Leeches[

Spongers

etc.

It's not too long ago that Irish immigrants in the UK and U.S. were being depicted as drunken, fighting simpleton paddies, with Punch magazine (see attached pics) depicting the Irish as simian-like beasts!

Sweeping generalisations, especially when accompanied by the sort of emotive, dehumanising language being used on this thread ultimately only lead to knee-jerk, reactive policy which hurts those genuinely in need of our protection.

Fair enough, condemn those (Irish and foreign) engaged in criminal activity but don't go down the road of "final solution" like statements, depicting an entire people as sub-human.

I am not using the term "racist" as I don't feel that racism is behind many of the comments here. (Although there are racist undertones to some of the comments). The problem is that we have two groups on either end of the scale:

1) Those who see every black, asian, non-white person as thieving, welfare grabbing social pests (while completely ignoring the socially destructive corporate criminality existing at the highest levels of our own state) and;

2) Those at the other extreme who see every immigrant, regardless of his or her true character and motives as a victims whose most heinous acts can be excused away.

If we are a true Republic (which we are not), the laws of the land should apply equally to all, regardless of colour, creed, financial or political status.

The problem, as I see it, is that Ireland lacks a transparent, equitable, rule and justice-based immigration policy. Hence, too many people fall through the cracks with the result that every non-white non-national is seen as a "leeching, sponging welfare addict".

Condemn away but don't forget our own too recent history.

Rb

tbh wrote: »

wow. So basically you think that anyone who doesn't think the same as you is doing it out of badness. that's pretty arrogant, don't you think?

I don't think they're doing it out of badness, I just don't "get it". They must have had experiences with Romas that have lead them to their opinions being completely different to the majorities, else they're just going against the grain for the sake of it.

I say this because most, if not all of us have had experiences with Romas at some point. I've had many, both in Ireland and abroad, and even though I haven't met every single one of them, I just find their culture overall impossible to defend.

For example, we had a Roma call to our door one day and my soft hearted mother gave her €5 and a loaf of bread. For two weeks, I kid you not, they sent their children/relatives to our door, every day, at least once a day sometimes twice, claiming to be friends of my mother and asking for money.

The same woman appeared a short time afterwards and, again, I kid you not, showed my mother her visa/green card which meant she was legally allowed work here yet instead she roamed the streets begging and sending her children in to do so also.

You encounter them in town, almost every time you go in, whether it be day or night. During the day, they're sitting at ATM machines intimidating people who are trying to get money out into giving them some. At night they're walking the sides of the smoking areas of clubs asking for change or attempting to force roses on you.

I don't see how this "culture" is defendable. They're able to work and contribute to our government, yet they roam our streets begging from the people who do so.

These are "negative" experiences and I've had far worse experiences with them in other countries, where they've picked pockets, stolen phones etc.

Sure, there may be a few hard working ones, but they're rare. How often do you see a Roma working? Now compare that to the sheer amount of times you see them begging, or sending their children to do so. It's unacceptable, how people can actually justify their "culture" is beyond me tbh.

Hence why I said that I feel that those who are justifying or defending these peoples actions are doing so purely to go against the grain, have had some fantastic experience with them, or have bleeding hearts.

If they're in this country their children should be in school and they should be working, at least one member of a couple should anyway, and contributing rather than sitting back and trying to get everything for free.

It may be their "culture" that they've had for thousands of years or whatever, so the f*ck what? It should be in no way accepted.

You'll also note I haven't deemed the lot of them criminals, which I think others have. I'm sure some do partake in criminal activities, but I haven't seen it here as much as I have in other countries so won't go tarring the Romas in this country as criminals until I've seen enough evidence to do so.

monkeyfudge

Mirror wrote: »

Fine, so you haven't received a satisfactory explanation. Neither have I. But I was there. It happened. It had happened before, and I'll bet my left arm it will happen again.

Do you believe me to be lying? Or do you think my friend threw 200 quid in the Liffey and blamed it on the Romas becaues he's just so angry at the world?

ah... no... I'm sure it happens... just odd that it's never been explained properly.

If you do ask your friend be sure to let us know how it all panned out.

Degsy

monkeyfudge wrote: »

Are they not all to do with ATM skimming? A completely different crime to the one described here to which I have never heard a satisfactory explanation.

No they're not.read them.its clled "distraction fraud2.Ask a cop to explain it you.

dodgyme

Mirror wrote: »

Actually this is incorrect.

I can't remember where I heard this, but it was explained to me the the Roma's that beg in their home country are treated like dogs and aren't tolerated at all.

No Mirror it is not incorrect. As I said earlier I saw scores of them begging and annoying people in Romania 10 years ago. My last time back there 2 years ago, there was much less of them about. It is true that they were not popular with the locals there at anytime (putting it mildly). i.e. they were treated more severely then they would be in lax ireland.

I guess with the collapse of communism, and the free movement of people that resulted they found an easier 'watering holes' then the streets of Bucharest, so to that level I would agree with you.

monkeyfudge

Degsy wrote: »

No they're not.read them.its clled "distraction fraud2.Ask a cop to explain it you.

As far as I can tell that is only mentioned in one of the articles you linked to.

And it certainly doesn't address how it's achieved.

tbh

rb_ie wrote: »

...

very well written and well thought out post, to be fair.

Blisterman

I wouldn't be surprised that Romanians are upset that Romas are giving them a bad name. I personally can't stand the behaviour of Irish Travellers in England, and would hate to think that they are giving Irish people a bad reputation.

Degsy

monkeyfudge wrote: »

As far as I can tell that is only mentioned in one of the articles you linked to.

And it certainly doesn't address how it's achieved.

But it does happen.thats what you seem to be disputing.

monkeyfudge

Degsy wrote: »

But it does happen.thats what you seem to be disputing.

Where did I dispute that?

I disputing the details of the thing as I don't know how it would happen short of the person withdrawing money from the ATM being deaf and the Roma handing them back their card afterwards.

Degsy

monkeyfudge wrote: »

Where did I dispute that?

I disputing the details of the thing as I don't know how it would happen short of the person withdrawing money from the ATM being deaf and the Roma handing them back their card afterwards.

Why are you disputing the details if you dont know how it works?Its usually a two man job,one sneakily presses 200 while you're distracted and after you've put your pin inthe other backs off and waits till your card is ejected and the money starts to come out,you're then distracted again and the money is stolen.Its really very simple.

latenia

I like the gypsies-they're a band of renegade outlaws who do whatever the fck they want despite what the rest of the population thinks. Ok, they're sneaky, dishonest and parasitic by nature, but they have more freedom than any of us and I have to respect anyone who rejects the norms of society. Their crimes are hardly on the serious side of the scale-begging, pickpocketing etc. I don't recall any violent crimes perpetrated by Roma here. Just ignore them at traffic lights and outside pubs with roses and be careful at ATMs and I think you'll find they don't have any impact on your life whatsoever.
As for the people applauding what happened in Italy-go fuk yourselves-seriously.

Doctor DooM

Degsy wrote: »

You've lost the argument.Really you have,you're just reinventing the wheel.

For the 8 millionth time, and no one is bothering to address, you can't judge an ethnic group on the behaviour on most or all of its members, you have to do it on a one by one basis, else we go the way of fascism. I'm not saying don't feck them out of the country if they do wrong- in
in fact I agree- but they have to do something wrong. the lads on the roundabout? Wrong. Tried and were wrong. But they had their day in court.

But stating all Roma or wrong or judging them as a group is never, ever, going to get anything done.

I don't see where I am losing this argument at all, seeing as among all the people here I am one of the two who seem to have a daily/weekly interaction with them, and yet I am the one defending their rights.

What are you actually saying? Should we not let them in? Round them up?

dodgyme

latenia wrote: »

I like the gypsies-they're a band of renegade outlaws who do whatever the fck they want despite what the rest of the population thinks. Ok, they're sneaky, dishonest and parasitic by nature, but they have more freedom than any of us and I have to respect anyone who rejects the norms of society. Their crimes are hardly on the serious side of the scale-begging, pickpocketing etc. I don't recall any violent crimes perpetrated by Roma here. Just ignore them at traffic lights and outside pubs with roses and be careful at ATMs and I think you'll find they don't have any impact on your life whatsoever.
As for the people applauding what happened in Italy-go fuk yourselves-seriously.

you should quit your job and go join the circus.

dodgyme

SDooM wrote: »

What are you actually saying? Should we not let them in? Round them up?

18 pages and you still dont understand peoples opinions?

Jigsaw

rb_ie wrote: »

I don't think they're doing it out of badness, I just don't "get it". They must have had experiences with Romas that have lead them to their opinions being completely different to the majorities, else they're just going against the grain for the sake of it.

I say this because most, if not all of us have had experiences with Romas at some point. I've had many, both in Ireland and abroad, and even though I haven't met every single one of them, I just find their culture overall impossible to defend.

For example, we had a Roma call to our door one day and my soft hearted mother gave her €5 and a loaf of bread. For two weeks, I kid you not, they sent their children/relatives to our door, every day, at least once a day sometimes twice, claiming to be friends of my mother and asking for money.

The same woman appeared a short time afterwards and, again, I kid you not, showed my mother her visa/green card which meant she was legally allowed work here yet instead she roamed the streets begging and sending her children in to do so also.

You encounter them in town, almost every time you go in, whether it be day or night. During the day, they're sitting at ATM machines intimidating people who are trying to get money out into giving them some. At night they're walking the sides of the smoking areas of clubs asking for change or attempting to force roses on you.

I don't see how this "culture" is defendable. They're able to work and contribute to our government, yet they roam our streets begging from the people who do so.

These are "negative" experiences and I've had far worse experiences with them in other countries, where they've picked pockets, stolen phones etc.

Sure, there may be a few hard working ones, but they're rare. How often do you see a Roma working? Now compare that to the sheer amount of times you see them begging, or sending their children to do so. It's unacceptable, how people can actually justify their "culture" is beyond me tbh.

Hence why I said that I feel that those who are justifying or defending these peoples actions are doing so purely to go against the grain, have had some fantastic experience with them, or have bleeding hearts.

If they're in this country their children should be in school and they should be working, at least one member of a couple should anyway, and contributing rather than sitting back and trying to get everything for free.

It may be their "culture" that they've had for thousands of years or whatever, so the f*ck what? It should be in no way accepted.

You'll also note I haven't deemed the lot of them criminals, which I think others have. I'm sure some do partake in criminal activities, but I haven't seen it here as much as I have in other countries so won't go tarring the Romas in this country as criminals until I've seen enough evidence to do so.

This is a very sensible post and I agree with it entirely. You can never condemn an entire group of people but I can say that I have NEVER seen a Roma person do any work. They beg, steal and the way the pester me everytime I am at the pub and go for a smoke. I mean, do you go up to a guy who is smoking by himself and ask him for a rose. Then when you refuse they are so bloody insistent. When they eventually relent they then start asking you for money. Why would I give the f**ker any money? In what way would that benefit me?

There is no Goddamn reason why they could not be out doing some sort of job and pay taxes and contribute to society. If they did then only complete twats would continue to have a problem with them.

Basically when it comes to reputation, the Roma have made a rod for their own backs. I would have gladly made it for them.

Maximilian

Rebeller wrote: »

It's not too long ago that Irish immigrants in the UK and U.S. were being depicted as drunken, fighting simpleton paddies, with Punch magazine (see attached pics) depicting the Irish as simian-like beasts!

This is a completely different thing altogether. Irish were discriminated against, sure, but were we begging, stealing, shoving babies in people's faces? No, we were building New York, London etc. Show me any country where the Irish went & I 'll show you how they contributed positively to that society.

Now, can anyone say the same about our Roma friends.

DonJose

Fresh off the newsstand!!! 20/05/2008 - 14:08:46

Boy, 14, gets six months for ATM scam

Guess where hes from

A 14-year-old-boy, who was involved a spate of ATM scams where five men each had €200 stolen from under their noses, has been given a six-month sentence by Judge Ann Ryan at the Dublin Children’s Court.

She suspended the sentence for one year after hearing today that €1,000 in compensation had been made available to be divided among the victims.

She had also been told and that the teenager was co-operating with the Probation Service to address his offending. The boy, who was accompanied to court by his mother is also enrol in school in September and in the mean time will be attending literacy classes.

Judge Ryan had said parental supervision of the boy, who has been arrested across Ireland for thefts, seemed to be non-existent.

Armed with a newspaper and using sleight of hand and distracting his unsuspecting victims, the boy repeatedly stole their money at bank machines, the court was told.

The out-of-school boy, who is originally from Romania, had pleaded guilty to five counts of theft of €200 from men at bank machines, on Dublin’s O’Connell Street, on separate dates in January and February last.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhgbcwqleyid/

Maximilian

SDooM wrote: »

For the 8 millionth time, and no one is bothering to address, you can't judge an ethnic group on the behaviour on most or all of its members

What??! Of course you bloody can. At the risk of invoking Goodwin's Law, we can't make a judgement about, say, all Nazis on the basis that a couple of them might have been nice lads like that fella off the elevators they made a film about? Good lord. That's just too PC.

Holsten

Ugh.. throw the lot of them out.

tbh

Maximilian wrote: »

This is a completely different thing altogether. Irish were discriminated against, sure, but were we begging, stealing, shoving babies in people's faces?

yes, we were.

Caoimhín

Theres none of them sexy ladies, Sexy lady forigners i like.

sickpuppy

It angers and depresses me when i see Romas when im out in Dublin city.
If i want flowers ill go to a florist the mere sight of them makes me sick.
Seeing them hanging babies out when sitting down begging is wrong what chance has the child ever got?
Thay as agroup of people race whatever contribute absolutely nothing and are really parasitic i have to stop myself punching them in the face every night i am out and go to an atm as a tax paying citizen of ireland i should not have to look at these people.
I can really see something like what happened in Italy happening here horrible and all as that would be.
If the government wont act on a problem eventually the good people will.

ojewriej

Maximilian wrote: »

What??! Of course you bloody can. At the risk of invoking Goodwin's Law, we can't make a judgement about, say, all Nazis on the basis that a couple of them might have been nice lads like that fella off the elevators they made a film about? Good lord. That's just too PC.

The vital word you missed in his post was "ethnic".

You are born Roma, but you aren't born a Nazi, you decide to become one. It's a huge difference.

Doctor DooM

dodgyme wrote: »

18 pages and you still dont understand peoples opinions?

Hows about answering the question and not dodging it again?

dodgyme

SDooM wrote: »

Hows about answering the question and not dodging it again?

19 pages and you still dont understand peoples opinions?

Doctor DooM

Maximilian wrote: »

What??! Of course you bloody can. At the risk of invoking Goodwin's Law, we can't make a judgement about, say, all Nazis on the basis that a couple of them might have been nice lads like that fella off the elevators they made a film about? Good lord. That's just too PC.

Funny, I thought even the Nazi's recieved trials. Hey, sure the pope was in the hitler youth, lock him up...


See my point?

tbh

sickpuppy wrote: »

Seeing them hanging babies out when sitting down begging is wrong what chance has the child ever got?

so again, at what stage do you stop feeling sorry for them and start hating them?

Doctor DooM

dodgyme wrote: »

19 pages and you still dont understand peoples opinions?

Are you trolling, or are you going to answer my question?

Dudess

latenia wrote: »

I like the gypsies-they're a band of renegade outlaws who do whatever the fck they want despite what the rest of the population thinks. Ok, they're sneaky, dishonest and parasitic by nature, but they have more freedom than any of us and I have to respect anyone who rejects the norms of society. Their crimes are hardly on the serious side of the scale-begging, pickpocketing etc. I don't recall any violent crimes perpetrated by Roma here. Just ignore them at traffic lights and outside pubs with roses and be careful at ATMs and I think you'll find they don't have any impact on your life whatsoever.
As for the people applauding what happened in Italy-go fuk yourselves-seriously.

LOL. So eh... are you living the romantic dream of being a renegade outlaw who just does the hell what he/she wants? I don't have much time for a lot of societal norms either, but committing crimes against people... well I'd draw the line at that. Man... I'm so square!

Adam

dodgyme wrote: »

No Mirror it is not incorrect. As I said earlier I saw scores of them begging and annoying people in Romania 10 years ago. My last time back there 2 years ago, there was much less of them about. It is true that they were not popular with the locals there at anytime (putting it mildly). i.e. they were treated more severely then they would be in lax ireland.

I guess with the collapse of communism, and the free movement of people that resulted they found an easier 'watering holes' then the streets of Bucharest, so to that level I would agree with you.

Sorry, what?

You said you disagree with me, and then reitterated my point...

dodgyme

Mirror wrote: »

Sorry, what?

You said you disagree with me, and then reitterated my point...

your point was that they were not begging back in their own country because that wasnt tolerated.
my point it that they were begging back in their own country even though they were treated like crap. So I agree with half of what you are saying.

dodgyme

SDooM wrote: »

Are you trolling, or are you going to answer my question?

I dont have any change on me, I told you already.

latenia

Dudess wrote: »

LOL. So eh... are you living the romantic dream of being a renegade outlaw who just does the hell what he/she wants? I don't have much time for a lot of societal norms either, but committing crimes against people... well I'd draw the line at that. Man... I'm so square!

Well, I would say that their crimes are against property rather than people themselves. How about changing the thread title btw? It's extremely offensive.

Doctor DooM

dodgyme wrote: »

I dont have any change on me, I told you already.

Trolling so. Least I know not to bother.

Doctor DooM

latenia wrote: »

Well, I would say that their crimes are against property rather than people themselves. How about changing the thread title btw? It's extremely offensive.

Commiting crimes is bad, mkay?

Why is it offensive? It happened. It's not actually saying anything about the Roma.

Ruskie4Rent

Ethnicity, religion ect. should not be a contributing factor on deciding who we let into and who stays in this country.
I can understand some of the issues people are having with the roman community, but some people are talking about them as if they are some sort of pest.
I think people like this use terms like 'political correctness gone mad!' and 'bleeding heart liberals' to belittle alternative opinions and mask their own bigotry.
'Subhuman' was a term I read a few pages back. If someone truely believes something like this,they are not much better than the nazis.

Caoimhín

latenia wrote: »

Well, I would say that their crimes are against property rather than people themselves. How about changing the thread title btw? It's extremely offensive.

So easily offended. And offended on behalf of someone else.

Dinter

I've never met one that wasn't begging, loitering at an ATM or attempting to intimidate people on the street.

In my circle of family, friends, colleagues I have never heard a story that shows anything like a positive side to them although many ones that show them negatively.

Nor, despite the fact that I daily read two newspapers, do I remember ever having read an article that shows them in anything like a good light.

I see the main problem in the fact that the Roma have no skills that are of use to a modern, technologically advanced culture such as Ireland’s. They have been kept as wandering tinkers (in the original sense of the word) due to being severely discriminated from the time of the Iron Guards up to Ceausescu and denied access to school, university etc.

As a result they have become highly clannish with different tribes, royalty and even to the extent of having their own justice system etc. They do not respect our society’s rules because they do not see them as applying to them

They come here and see our fat, wealthy society and think that the only bite they’ll get will be what they can take. People have said that they should adapt to our way of working for a living or attempting to better yourself but it must be realised that by their standards a certain amount of criminality is encouraged or even respected. (i.e. Dublin’s Gypsy Queen)

You can actually have a career that your peers will envy you for but would make no sense to the vast majority of Irish people.

However, much and all as I might respect their determination to have a good life no matter the cost to the society that is harbouring them I think that they need to realise that what might be acceptable in Romania due to governmental indifference is not in any way acceptable here. Namely child endangerment and petty crime.

To people who say that not all Romas are criminals I’m afraid the short answer would be that if they are not, it is because they have broken with their clans in an attempt to choose a different path in life. What we would see as gross criminality they would see as complete normalcy. To them a person working 9 to 5 for a salary would be the odd one out.

I hate to mention the elephant in the room but we have our own brand of Romas that face much of the same problems as they do and frankly I think it is incumbent on us to deal with them first. We should get our own house in order before expressing shock and disgust at others.

Regarding accusations of racism etc. This thread is about the Roma so that’s probably why people are concentrating on them!! :rolleyes:

latenia

SDooM wrote: »

Commiting crimes is bad, mkay?

Why is it offensive? It happened. It's not actually saying anything about the Roma.

So a gang of thugs riled up by some bs rumour torches the homes of an ethnic group with the tacit approval of the police in a country, supposedly at the heart of modern Europe, which has recently taken a lurch to the far-right in its national politics and you think it's fine to have such a glib, faintly triumphant, title here?
To raise the issue of crime as a point in this particular case is so ridiculously ironic that those who raise it are either taking the piss at very high level or are complete morons.
Take every single crime ever committed by a Roma throughout history and multiply that by a factor of tens of millions in terms of violence and loss of property and you won't come close to the magnitude of the acts of the organisation responsible for this attack.
Italy has huge ingrained problems with criminality and corruption at every level of society-Neapolitans need only have to look at the piles of rubbish in their streets and ask how it came to this-the Roma are just scapegoats as they have always been.

javaboy

latenia wrote: »

So a gang of thugs riled up by some bs rumour torches the homes of an ethnic group with the tacit approval of the police in a country, supposedly at the heart of modern Europe, which has recently taken a lurch to the far-right in its national politics and you think it's fine to have such a glib, faintly triumphant, title here?
To raise the issue of crime as a point in this particular case is so ridiculously ironic that those who raise it are either taking the piss at very high level or are complete morons.
Take every single crime ever committed by a Roma throughout history and multiply that by a factor of tens of millions in terms of violence and loss of property and you won't come close to the magnitude of the acts of the organisation responsible for this attack.
Italy has huge ingrained problems with criminality and corruption at every level of society-Neapolitans need only have to look at the piles of rubbish in their streets and ask how it came to this-the Roma are just scapegoats as they have always been.

Sounds like a little bit of
http://z.about.com/d/nashville/1/7/I/V/2004_0721Image0092.JPG
there tbh.

Besides the thread has long since swayed away from the original Italy based events.

"To raise the issue of crime as a point in this particular case is so ridiculously ironic that those who raise it are either taking the piss at very high level or are complete morons."

I agree to a certain extent that crimes committed by Roma people shouldn't be used as an excuse in this particular case but those crimes are certainly a contributory cause.

Dinter

latenia wrote: »

So a gang of thugs riled up by some bs rumour torches the homes of an ethnic group with the tacit approval of the police in a country, supposedly at the heart of modern Europe, which has recently taken a lurch to the far-right in its national politics and you think it's fine to have such a glib, faintly triumphant, title here?

I'd see that title as referring to the police operations designed to disperse illegal immigrants, not the torching of their shanty camps. I cannot see how you could refer to that as glib.

Also this "lurch" that you refer to is as a result of a political manifesto that promised to carry out these sort of operations. The party was duly elected and whilst nobody could say that Italy has a great reputation for political transparancy it is the Government carrying these actions out. Also I'll need more evidence before I'll condemn the Italian government as far right. That's a slur that is bandied about far too often. The equivalent of the "bleeding heart liberal" that I'm sure I've used before

Placebo

Dinter wrote: »

technologically advanced culture such as Ireland’s.

are you making a LOL?
advanced, ireland? LOL

They come here and see our fat, wealthy society and think that the only bite they’ll get will be what they can take. People have said that they should adapt to our way of working for a living or attempting to better yourself but it must be realised that by their standards a certain amount of criminality is encouraged or even respected. (i.e. Dublin’s Gypsy Queen)

Im sure such an advanced society would have WORKSHOPS in place to help these people start of the ground.
Your sweeping statements are as thought provoking as the SUN PAPER

Dinter

Placebo wrote: »

are you making a LOL?
advanced, ireland? LOL

Not many people need dents hammered out of their pots anymore and if I need clothes pegs I'll go to the shop.

Ah seriously though I meant in comparison with where they're coming from.

Placebo

Dinter wrote: »

Not many people need dents hammered out of their pots anymore and if I need clothes pegs I'll go to the shop.

Ah seriously though I meant in comparison with where they're coming from.

Hmmmm do you make up facts ?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/Wiki_btcn.jpg/800px-Wiki_btcn.jpg

That's Romania. You should visit perhaps. *
Oh they got electricity WOWWWW

*P.s: not from Romania, but cant stand silly posts

Maximilian

SDooM wrote: »

Funny, I thought even the Nazi's recieved trials. Hey, sure the pope was in the hitler youth, lock him up...


See my point?

Yes they did. By judge I meant form an opinion not charge & convict, which you couldn't do if for no other reason than practicality. Also, there is nothing wrong with generalisations per se, unless you suggest they are absolute. Some people seem to think that all generalisations are automatically wrong, all prejudice is wrong & discrimination is wrong. Dictionaries need to be read I think.

I think this thread has run its course. All I can see from here on out is entrenched corners & petty point scoring. Time for Katpix.

lost marbles

Ruskie4Rent wrote: »

Ethnicity, religion ect. should not be a contributing factor on deciding who we let into and who stays in this country.
I can understand some of the issues people are having with the roman community,


those bloody romans kill too many lions and christians in their arenas:D