Italy tackles Roma Gypsies.

Placebo

The world does not run on generalisations. The law is not based on generalisations, its based on facts. If generalisations were right and way to go,then we wouldn't have proper science, neither would we have facilities or right to anything.
ridiculous.

Sherifu

Maximilian wrote: »

Time for Katpix.

Not till someone turns [IMG]on. [/img]

Doctor DooM

Placebo wrote: »

The world does not run on generalisations. The law is not based on generalisations, its based on facts. If generalisations were right and way to go,then we wouldn't have proper science, neither would we have facilities or right to anything.
ridiculous.

If thanks were working you'd get one. This is pretty much what I was messing up trying to say.

the_syco

But yeah, generalisations are bad. Like, to call all Nazi SS evil wouldn't be true, now would it...?

Sam Vimes

dodgyme wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Look you can expand the context however you want. 50 roma come into a country and live on a roundabout, but ofcourse that has nothing to do with them being roma except that they ARE roma. no germans just roma.

good point, you must be right. great skill there. :rolleyes:
you can keep going with the elastic argument but it broke way back in this argument

ah you rolled your eyes a few times. you must be right so

Degsy wrote: »

You've lost the argument.Really you have,you're just reinventing the wheel.

ah you've stated that someone has lost the argument. you must be right so

Maximilian wrote: »

What??! Of course you bloody can. At the risk of invoking Goodwin's Law, we can't make a judgement about, say, all Nazis on the basis that a couple of them might have been nice lads like that fella off the elevators they made a film about? Good lord. That's just too PC.

as has already been pointed out, you choose to join the nazi party based on your beliefs. you are born a roma

Rb wrote: »

I don't think they're doing it out of badness, I just don't "get it". They must have had experiences with Romas that have lead them to their opinions being completely different to the majorities, else they're just going against the grain for the sake of it.

I say this because most, if not all of us have had experiences with Romas at some point. I've had many, both in Ireland and abroad, and even though I haven't met every single one of them, I just find their culture overall impossible to defend.

For example, we had a Roma call to our door one day and my soft hearted mother gave her €5 and a loaf of bread. For two weeks, I kid you not, they sent their children/relatives to our door, every day, at least once a day sometimes twice, claiming to be friends of my mother and asking for money.

The same woman appeared a short time afterwards and, again, I kid you not, showed my mother her visa/green card which meant she was legally allowed work here yet instead she roamed the streets begging and sending her children in to do so also.

You encounter them in town, almost every time you go in, whether it be day or night. During the day, they're sitting at ATM machines intimidating people who are trying to get money out into giving them some. At night they're walking the sides of the smoking areas of clubs asking for change or attempting to force roses on you.

I don't see how this "culture" is defendable. They're able to work and contribute to our government, yet they roam our streets begging from the people who do so.

no, you don't get it. no one on this thread is defending that lifestyle. anyone who defends people who steal for a living is thick tbh. what myself and a few others are saying is that it's wrong to assume that all, or even a majority of, roma people are living that lifestyle. a lot of them may well be criminals but that doesn't make it ok to treat someone you've just met like a criminal because of who their parents are

btw, i don't know if you saw this earlier but myself and SDooM both worked in phone shops and had daily dealings with thieving roma scum. we just think it's wrong to assume that an entire group of people are criminals

Dinter wrote: »

I've never met one that wasn't begging, loitering at an ATM or attempting to intimidate people on the street.

In my circle of family, friends, colleagues I have never heard a story that shows anything like a positive side to them although many ones that show them negatively.

Nor, despite the fact that I daily read two newspapers, do I remember ever having read an article that shows them in anything like a good light.

that is the crucial point. when was the last time you saw "MAN WORKS IN A JOB TO RAISE HIS KIDS AND NEVER BOTHERS ANYONE!!!" as a headline? just because you haven't met them and they don't make the papers, doesn't mean they don't exist

Maximilian wrote: »

Yes they did. By judge I meant form an opinion not charge & convict, which you couldn't do if for no other reason than practicality. Also, there is nothing wrong with generalisations per se, unless you suggest they are absolute. Some people seem to think that all generalisations are automatically wrong, all prejudice is wrong & discrimination is wrong. Dictionaries need to be read I think.

the thing is that when it comes to ethnicity, all generalisations are wrong because there are always exceptions.

people justify their generalisations with statements like "i don't hate them because of who they are. i hate them because of what they do" and "it's not all of them, just the majority". both of those statements are wrong.

the first statement is wrong because it makes the assumption that all, or the majority of the members of a particular ethnic group do that thing. that's not necessarily the case

the second one is wrong because people will go into interactions with people they've never met with pre-conceived ideas about them based on their ethnicity. since they admit that not all are criminals, they will inevitably judge someone wrongly.

if they don't go into interactions with people of a certain ethnicity with pre conceived ideas, if they judge them on an individual basis, then the statement becomes pointless. why even mention what the majority of a particular ethnic group do if they're not going to assume that about members of that group when they meet them?

in fact, "it's not all of them, just the majority" is worse than "they're all like that" because at least people who think they're all bad can justify assuming they're thieves because they think they all are. how can you justify looking at a roma and assuming they're a thief when you admit there are roma that aren't?

Sam Vimes

the_syco wrote: »

But yeah, generalisations are bad. Like, to call all Nazi SS evil wouldn't be true, now would it...?

just to make sure that this gets corrected each time, you choose to join the nazi party based on your beliefs. you are born a roma

judging you because of who your parents are is different to judging you because of a group that you chose to join

AckwelFoley

I like the roma.

Unlike all those lazy Brazilians that dont work, the roma are working in all areas of the Irish wrkforce.. they're to be found in Meat factories, construction and the service sector.. but them brazilians....they like to travel half way around the world and beg,

kowloon

latenia wrote: »

I like the gypsies-they're a band of renegade outlaws who do whatever the fck they want despite what the rest of the population thinks. Ok, they're sneaky, dishonest and parasitic by nature, but they have more freedom than any of us and I have to respect anyone who rejects the norms of society. Their crimes are hardly on the serious side of the scale-begging, pickpocketing etc. I don't recall any violent crimes perpetrated by Roma here. Just ignore them at traffic lights and outside pubs with roses and be careful at ATMs and I think you'll find they don't have any impact on your life whatsoever.
As for the people applauding what happened in Italy-go fuk yourselves-seriously.

Yes, carefree travelling outlaws, moving ever onwards, fighting the man, leaping from life to life, striving to put right what once went wrong, and hoping each time that the next leap will be the leap home.

javaboy

kowloon wrote: »

Yes, carefree travelling outlaws, moving ever onwards, fighting the man, leaping from life to life, striving to put right what once went wrong, and hoping each time that the next leap will be the leap home.

Oh boy

Degsy

Sam Vimes wrote: »

ah you rolled your eyes a few times. you must be right so



ah you've stated that someone has lost the argument. you must be right so



as has already been pointed out, you choose to join the nazi party based on your beliefs. you are born a roma



no, you don't get it. no one on this thread is defending that lifestyle. anyone who defends people who steal for a living is thick tbh. what myself and a few others are saying is that it's wrong to assume that all, or even a majority of, roma people are living that lifestyle. a lot of them may well be criminals but that doesn't make it ok to treat someone you've just met like a criminal because of who their parents are

btw, i don't know if you saw this earlier but myself and SDooM both worked in phone shops and had daily dealings with

thieving roma scum.

we just think it's wrong to assume that an entire group of people are criminals



that is the crucial point. when was the last time you saw "MAN WORKS IN A JOB TO RAISE HIS KIDS AND NEVER BOTHERS ANYONE!!!" as a headline? just because you haven't met them and they don't make the papers, doesn't mean they don't exist



the thing is that when it comes to ethnicity, all generalisations are wrong because there are always exceptions.

people justify their generalisations with statements like "i don't hate them because of who they are. i hate them because of what they do" and "it's not all of them, just the majority". both of those statements are wrong.

the first statement is wrong because it makes the assumption that all, or the majority of the members of a particular ethnic group do that thing. that's not necessarily the case

the second one is wrong because people will go into interactions with people they've never met with pre-conceived ideas about them based on their ethnicity. since they admit that not all are criminals, they will inevitably judge someone wrongly.

if they don't go into interactions with people of a certain ethnicity with pre conceived ideas, if they judge them on an individual basis, then the statement becomes pointless. why even mention what the majority of a particular ethnic group do if they're not going to assume that about members of that group when they meet them?

in fact, "it's not all of them, just the majority" is worse than "they're all like that" because at least people who think they're all bad can justify assuming they're thieves because they think they all are. how can you justify looking at a roma and assuming they're a thief when you admit there are roma that aren't?

You.ve mentioned thier ethnicity,thier habits and your opinion of them.You have just joined the ranks of the great unwashed who generalise.

Calibos

I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Roma Eurovision entry on their successful semi final. Hopefully they will be up againsts Italy on Eurovision final night and get some revenge.

Sam Vimes

Degsy wrote: »

You.ve mentioned thier ethnicity,thier habits and your opinion of them.You have just joined the ranks of the great unwashed who generalise.

they were roma, they were thieving and they were scum. there was no generalisation. you might notice that i mentioned it to point out the fact that i don't blame all of them for the actions of these specific ones.

so try again there degsy

ferdi

I think all anyone can do is go by their experiences. I have met many non nationals (didnt people not originally from the county they are in used to be called foreigners ) over the years. Through work, college or being out and about socially, i have interacted with a load of people from all over the world and i'm sure the same goes for most of us. I have good and bad experiences with Irish people. I have had good and bad experiences with people from outside Ireland. I have never had a good experience with a member of the Roma community, only negative experiences. This does not make me a racist or a bigot. All any of us can do is go by our experiences. I would be delighted to hear any accounts of people having positive. I know that no community can be 'bad' but in any interactions I have had or am likely to have, the experience has always been a negative one.

newmills

I have worked with numerous romanians over the past 8 years and found the vast majority of them to be polite, hardworking and generally well behaved. I have become really good friends with one guy who told me he is ashamed of the roma gypsies as they give his country a bad name. He told me they behave like that in romania as well (shoplifting, atm fraud and begging). I don't understand how they can beg, steal and commit crime in Ireland and not be sent home. Surely if you commit numerous crimes (one girl was caught stealing 3 times in one afternoon recently) and you come up before a judge - how long before he loses his patience and admits you are drain on our soceity, you contribute nothing to our economy and that it is time you were returned to your homeland for your own government to deal with.

Sam Vimes

ferdi wrote: »

I think all anyone can do is go by their experiences. I have met many non nationals (didnt people not originally from the county they are in used to be called foreigners ) over the years. Through work, college or being out and about socially, i have interacted with a load of people from all over the world and i'm sure the same goes for most of us. I have good and bad experiences with Irish people. I have had good and bad experiences with people from outside Ireland. I have never had a good experience with a member of the Roma community, only negative experiences. This does not make me a racist or a bigot. All any of us can do is go by our experiences. I would be delighted to hear any accounts of people having positive. I know that no community can be 'bad' but in any interactions I have had or am likely to have, the experience has always been a negative one.

no in fact that's very specifically not right. that's the entire problem in fact. personally, i have never had a good experience with an irish traveller. by your logic it's ok to assume that every traveller i meet is a bad person. but one ran for the senate last year. is she a bad person?


as i've said many times at this stage, people who are living their lives and not bothering anyone don't come to your attention. but that doesn't mean they don't exist and that doesn't make it ok for you to hate an entire ethnic group because you haven't met a nice one

it is not ok to assume that all members of an ethnic group are bad people until they each prove otherwise to you

EamonnKeane

Placebo wrote: »

Hmmmm do you make up facts ?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/Wiki_btcn.jpg/800px-Wiki_btcn.jpg

That's Romania. You should visit perhaps. *
Oh they got electricity WOWWWW

*P.s: not from Romania, but cant stand silly posts

That photograph shows one building in the entire country. If you want to see the big picture, see http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1204120923.67/ - one third of Romanians lack running water and sewage

ferdi

Sam Vimes wrote: »

no in fact that's very specifically not right. that's the entire problem in fact. personally, i have never had a good experience with an irish traveller. by your logic it's ok to assume that every traveller i meet is a bad person. but one ran for the senate last year. is she a bad person?

Read my post. I never said members of the Roma Community are bad. However, you seem to be on the defensive and see racism everywhere you look.

What I was trying to imply was that not having a positive story about a particular group does not make you a racist. Furthermore, the fact that I (or anyone I know) have never had a positive experience with a Roma should not 'speak volumes' about me or the Roma but rather the way in which we interact -the situations in which we meet etc. Dont get me wrong, there are plenty of outrageously racist comments made in this thread. Stereotyping is an unfortunate fact of life. It has allowed us to learn and survive but it becomes a force for negativity when combined with determined ignorance.

Sam Vimes

ferdi wrote: »

Read my post. I never said members of the Roma Community are bad. However, you seem to be on the defensive and see racism everywhere you look.

well if you read your post you said that you've never met a good one. (i think) the main point of your post was that it's ok to make generalisations if you have a lot of experiences of a specific group.

so if you've never met a good one and it's ok to generalise how exactly does that not mean that roma are not good?

you said that roma are not bad but the rest of your post suggested otherwise

ferdi wrote: »

What I was trying to imply was that not having a positive story about a particular group does not make you a racist.

but if you make assumptions about other members of that ethnic group based on these experiences, ie if you generalise, then it does make you a racist

ferdi wrote: »

Stereotyping is an unfortunate fact of life. It has allowed us to learn and survive but it becomes a force for negativity when combined with determined ignorance.

if it's unfortunate then why are you suggesting generalising is ok?

Degsy

Sam Vimes wrote: »

they were roma, they were thieving and they were scum. there was no generalisation. you might notice that i mentioned it to point out the fact that i don't blame all of them for the actions of these specific ones.

so try again there degsy

Jesus H Christ,talk about repeating yourself,you've been at it ALL day>if you want to find out if there's any good roma out there(and i dont know if you do),go out and live amongst them or conduct a questionaire or something,just stop parroting the same line over and over and over.You seem to be in the running for some sort of record for using the word "generalise" and its derivitaves.Go and prove everybody wrong rather than just SAYING they're wrong!

Degsy

Sam Vimes wrote: »

well if you read your post you said that you've never met a good one. (i think) the main point of your post was that it's ok to make generalisations if you have a lot of experiences of a specific group.

so if you've never met a good one and it's ok to generalise how exactly does that not mean that roma are not good?

you said that roma are not bad but the rest of your post suggested otherwise


but if you make assumptions about other members of that ethnic group based on these experiences, ie if you generalise, then it does make you a racist


if it's unfortunate then why are you suggesting generalising is ok?

Enough already!!

Doctor DooM

Degsy wrote: »

Enough already!!

Funny, I am getting really sick of typing that word today...

Sam Vimes

Degsy wrote: »

Jesus H Christ,talk about repeating yourself,you've been at it ALL day>if you want to find out if there's any good roma out there(and i dont know if you do),go out and live amongst them or conduct a questionaire or something,just stop parroting the same line over and over and over.You seem to be in the running for some sort of record for using the word "generalise" and its derivitaves.Go and prove everybody wrong rather than just SAYING they're wrong!

i keep repeating myself because you're not getting it. and what you've done there is a classic bad arguing technique. trying to belittle my arguments because you can't prove them wrong

how do you suggest i contribute to the thread without using the word that defines the thing that i am saying is wrong? if we were talking about abortion, would you say "jesus H christ" if people kept using the word abortion?


i'm not making any sweeping statements. only you are. you are the one saying that an entire race of people are criminals so the burden of proof is on you. and i can guarantee you that you are wrong. i can't even say that everyone in my next door neighbour's house thinks the same way but you think that you can say that hundreds of thousands of people all share the same mindset because of who their parents are?? that's just ridiculous

Doctor DooM

Degsy wrote: »

Jesus H Christ,talk about repeating yourself,you've been at it ALL day>if you want to find out if there's any good roma out there(and i dont know if you do),go out and live amongst them or conduct a questionaire or something,just stop parroting the same line over and over and over.You seem to be in the running for some sort of record for using the word "generalise" and its derivitaves.Go and prove everybody wrong rather than just SAYING they're wrong!

He doesnt need to prove anyone wrong... innocent until guilty.

Right, I'm officially out of this thread, some people think its ok to judge an ethnic group by its members. I am just glad Irish society disagrees, and we don't get mob rule here.

ferdi

i'm saying its a fact of life. stereotyping serves us well in some cases. i'm not saying its a positive trait. I dont assume that all Roma are bad as that would be ridiculous. In fact I assume them to be just like everyone else. Give someone a chance and take the time to get to know him/her and you'll probably find common ground and mutual respect. In the situations that I, in my every day life, have interacted with a Roma - the experience is negitive. I do not take any pleasure in this fact. I want to get on with everyone I meet - makes for an easier life. I'm just giving my input on the topic.You think I am a racist. This doesn't bother me in the slightest. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion.

http://www.noisetosignal.org/images/posts/ted/rightthere.jpeg

Sam Vimes

ferdi wrote: »

i'm saying its a fact of life. stereotyping serves us well in some cases. i'm not saying its a positive trait. I dont assume that all Roma are bad as that would be ridiculous. In fact I assume them to be just like everyone else. Give someone a chance and take the time to get to know him/her and you'll probably find common ground and mutual respect. In the situations that I, in my every day life, have interacted with a Roma - the experience is negitive. I do not take any pleasure in this fact. I want to get on with everyone I meet - makes for an easier life. I'm just giving my input on the topic.You think I am a racist. This doesn't bother me in the slightest. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion.

now you're just contradicting yourself. do you generalise or do you judge people individually, regardless of ethnicity? both cannot be true

Degsy

Sam Vimes wrote: »

now you're just contradicting yourself. do you generalise or do you judge people individually, regardless of ethnicity? both cannot be true

ffs..

Degsy

SDooM wrote: »

He doesnt need to prove anyone wrong... innocent until guilty.

Right, I'm officially out of this thread, some people think its ok to judge an ethnic group by its members. I am just glad Irish society disagrees, and we don't get mob rule here.

"judge an ethnic group by its members"?Surely thats the ONLY way to judge them..

Sam Vimes

Degsy wrote: »

ffs..

i challenge you to start a new thread about abortion and never mention the word abortion in it. you're just making a fool of yourself at this stage

we're talking about generalisation. how am i supposed to post without mentioning the word?

Sam Vimes

Degsy wrote: »

"judge an ethnic group by its members"?Surely thats the ONLY way to judge them..

his point is that you shouldn't judge an ethnic group at all. you should judge people individually and ethnicity shouldn't be a factor. btw i didn't use the forbidden word, can i have a blue peter badge?

TomCo

That's it!

No more opinions for anyone, I'm going to turn this country around and drive all the way home and you can just sit there and sulk.

Sam Vimes

TomCo wrote: »

That's it!

No more opinions for anyone, I'm going to turn this country around and drive all the way home and you can just sit there and sulk.

/kicks the back of the seat

dodgyme

Placebo wrote: »

The world does not run on generalisations. The law is not based on generalisations, its based on facts. If generalisations were right and way to go,then we wouldn't have proper science, neither would we have facilities or right to anything.
ridiculous.

and the approval

SDooM wrote: »

If thanks were working you'd get one. This is pretty much what I was messing up trying to say.

and the contradiction

SDooM wrote: »

If you were to, for, example, not give someone a job based on generalising from their race or sex, yes, you would possibly be facing legal action.

Oh REALLY????????????????????????????

Sam Vimes

dodgyme wrote: »

and the approval



and the contradiction


Oh REALLY????????????????????????????

this confuses me. yes you would be facing legal action. i'm not trying to be awkward here. i honestly don't see any contradiction there

ferdi

Sam Vimes wrote: »

now you're just contradicting yourself. do you generalise or do you judge people individually, regardless of ethnicity? both cannot be true

1. i try to treat people as individuals.

2. i have had consistantly negative interactions with the Roma.

those are the facts. is it me? am i the problem? maybe.

i think you are challanging racism the wrong way. ultimately you are trying to shout over eachother and browbeat your opponent into submission. within racism there is often the inate human stereotyping survival mechanism, it is an instinct and therefore can be difficult to challenge in the way that you are.

The reason i have had negative experiences with the Roma is that our paths have only crossed when a positive outcome is unlikely (Examples: 1) Begging. by beating on the front house door of an ealderly relation of mine while shouting and demanding money as my realtive cowers inside. 2) stealing my bike (was told by an eye witness).

I have had far worse encounters with Irish people and negative experiences with people form loads of places but with these people i have also had positive experiences. You are telling me it is racist of me to point this out and maybe your right. The problem is that when a new group comes into contact with an existing group, differentiation is unavoidably made.

Hearing someone say: "God I was talking to this German guy in work today and ..." or "so there we were and this Polish girl comes up and asked us if you knew what time it was"

is different to

"There was this American lad and he was so loud!" or "Two Roma women thrust their babies out into the traffic to beg"....where do you draw the line? Can we only identify someone by their ethnicity when we are relating positive information?

Sam Vimes

ferdi wrote: »

1. i try to treat people as individuals.

2. i have had consistantly negative interactions with the Roma.

those are the facts. is it me? am i the problem? maybe.

yes they are facts. i don't think you're understanding me here

ferdi wrote: »

i think you are challanging racism the wrong way. ultimately you are trying to shout over eachother and browbeat your opponent into submission. within racism there is often the inate human stereotyping survival mechanism, it is an instinct and therefore can be difficult to challenge in the way that you are.

i wouldn't say that's within racism. that is the cause of racism.

ferdi wrote: »

The reason i have had negative experiences with the Roma is that our paths have only crossed when a positive outcome is unlikely (Examples: 1) Begging. by beating on the front house door of an ealderly relation of mine while shouting and demanding money as my realtive cowers inside. 2) stealing my bike (was told by an eye witness).

I have had far worse encounters with Irish people and negative experiences with people form loads of places but with these people i have also had positive experiences. You are telling me it is racist of me to point this out and maybe your right.

i'm not telling you it's racist to point out that you've had bad experiences with romas. that is merely pointing out a fact. however, you originally suggested that it's ok to generalise over other roma that you haven't yet had experiences with. it's not

ferdi wrote: »

"There was this American lad and he was so loud!" or "Two Roma women thrust their babies out into the traffic to beg"....where do you draw the line? Can we only identify someone by their ethnicity when we are relating positive information?

this again suggests that you're not getting what i'm saying. mentioning someone's ethnicity is not a problem. saying "i've had a lot of bad experiences with roma therefore roma are bad people" is the problem. that may not be what you meant but that is what i took it to mean when you said that generalising is ok

saying "i was robbed by a roma" is perfectly legitimate. saying "i was robbed by a roma. they're all thieving c*nts" is not ok

ferdi

Sam Vimes wrote: »

this again suggests that you're not getting what i'm saying. mentioning someone's ethnicity is not a problem. saying "i've had a lot of bad experiences with roma therefore roma are bad people" is the problem. that may not be what you meant but that is what i took it to mean when you said that generalising is ok

saying "i was robbed by a roma" is perfectly legitimate. saying "i was robbed by a roma. they're all thieving c*nts" is not ok

yeah i go along with that. maybe i wasnt expressing myself well.

Riddle101

Gowan you good thing finally someone's doing something about them, i mean seriously don't we have enough problems with the knackers and now we have to deal with Gypsies. By the way i'm aware it's Italy not Ireland who's doing something about it

AARRRGH

I have to say, I've never met a Roma who wasn't a scumbag. I am sure they exist, but I haven't met one.

As a result I can't help but have a very negative opinion of them.

I think scumbags, whether Irish or Roma, should be taken out of society. I am tired of repeat offenders repeatedly offending...

I know this is a very right wing way of thinking, but I'm tired of the scumbags.

AARRRGH

DesF wrote: »

If our government don't do something about the problem, I can see the rise of a proper right-wing party in Ireland in the next few years.

I agree.

We're way too soft on crime in this country.

Dudess

latenia wrote: »

Well, I would say that their crimes are against property rather than people themselves. How about changing the thread title btw? It's extremely offensive.

If you're trolling, I'd advise you to stop. Are you one of those middle-class individuals who's led an extremely comfortable life but has decided to become all marxist? Those people are exceptionally difficult to take seriously. You should move into a cave or a shed or whatever and subsist on food you find in bins in order to lend some credibility to your comments.
Oh and pickpocketing is a crime against a person. Your hostile tone also makes me fairly sure you're one of those "be nice to everyone" types yet who has no problem being not very nice to those who aren't even right-wing but who simply don't hold such deluded and naive views. This romantic, hippy notion you have of the Roma gypsy who commits crimes and fleeces people as a renegade who plays by his/her own rules is like something a character in The Simpsons would come up with. Or some teenage wannabe Manic Street Preachers band. Actually it's the kinda thing Pete Doherty would say. Believe you me, the criminal elements of those "mystical renegades" would have no problem robbing the eyes out of your head and would probably laugh themselves senseless at your summing up of them as having some sort of anti-establishment agenda in order to start their own little revolution. They're not committing crimes, sponging off the state, running fraudulent operations etc to "sock it to the man" at all, they just want to make a living through dishonest, underhanded means. If they were stealing from the rich to give to the poor, I'd take your posts a bit more seriously but do you know what they do with the money? They keep it for themselves...
Seriously, one day you'll have to get out of your world based on a couple of Che Guevara anecdotes and enter the real one.

TomCo

One time a Roma kid tried to sell me rocks.

javaboy

TomCo wrote: »

One time a Roma kid tried to sell me rocks.

Did they keep tigers away?

TomCo

No, I think the sales pitch was that one was bigger than the other and that I should buy both in order to have a rock collection which fully represented the spectrum of different sizes of rocks.

Notorious

A few weeks ago I was stopped in traffic with my window down. So a Roma kid walks by and throws me a slip of paper and a tea-light. The paper said something to the effect of: I have a child, please buy this candle so I can feed my family. The Roma kid looked 12 at the oldest...

BraziliaNZ

Why do people get so angry about immigrants? I don't give a sh*t who lives where as long as I can go about my day to day life and be happy. There are scumbags in every country, and I would get a hell of a lot more pissed off and intimidated by the violent, feral, angry little scumbags/chavs/neds whatever they're called that go around Dublin than a begging bloody gypsy. Just f*cking ignore them you fools.

wandatowell

I am delighted somebody is standing up to these horrible bunch of useless sh1tes. fair play to the italians

dodgyme

Sam Vimes wrote: »

this confuses me. yes you would be facing legal action. i'm not trying to be awkward here. i honestly don't see any contradiction there

Read it again. ! :rolleyes:

Sdoom is basically making the complete opposite point later in the thread then he did to me!!! So he was defending you earlier and now you are defending him (are ye doing shift?)

Seems to me none of ye guys on the pro-roma (oh sorry pro-treat everyone as an individual "we are all individuals" and dont put the pieces of lifes jigsaw together types) side can see anything but arguing your point not caring if you contradict yourselves in the process. To the rest of us that looks like a badly thought out argument.

Sam Vimes

dodgyme wrote: »

Read it again. ! :rolleyes:

Sdoom is basically making the complete opposite point later in the thread then he did to me!!! So he was defending you earlier and now you are defending him (are ye doing shift?)

i am honestly at a loss here.

placebo said that laws are not made based on generalisations, eg if a lot of travellers commit crimes it is not allowed to make a law that victimises travellers.

SDooM said that he would thank him for pointing that out if he could

then he said that if you refuse to hire someone based on a generalisation, you can be prosecuted because there are laws preventing people from generalising

where is the contradiction?

dodgyme wrote: »

Seems to me none of ye guys on the pro-roma (oh sorry pro-treat everyone as an individual "we are all individuals" and dont put the pieces of lifes jigsaw together types) side can see anything but arguing your point not caring if you contradict yourselves in the process. To the rest of us that looks like a badly thought out argument.

it's not lightly that i use this emoticon: :rolleyes:

dodgyme

Sam Vimes wrote: »

i am honestly at a loss here.:

so am i for different reasons (oh and ye are doing shift then?. Lets do this by steps
Step 1

Sam Vimes wrote: »

placebo said that laws are not made based on generalisations.:

Step 2

Sam Vimes wrote: »

SDooM said that he would thank him for pointing that out .:

Step 3

Sam Vimes wrote: »

SDooM ->there are laws preventing people from generalising.:

Sam Vimes wrote: »

where is the contradiction?
:

Am I really questioning your ability to compute here no??

Do you actually know what the word 'contradiction' means??? Here's a hint, think opposite!

Sam Vimes

dodgyme wrote: »

so am i for different reasons (oh and ye are doing shift then?. Lets do this by steps
Step 1

Step 2

Step 3


Am I really questioning your ability to compute here no??

Do you actually know what the word 'contradiction' means??? Here's a hint, think opposite!

right so you quoted my own post. that was kind of unnecessary tbh. i know what i wrote. i'm the one that wrote it. could someone else please explain what he’s trying to say?


what i'm thinking is that you're saying he's contradicting himself because he said that laws aren't based on generalisations and then said that someone can be prosecuted for generalising. is that right? I can’t think of anything else.


The reason that I’m not sure that that’s what you’re saying is that it shows such an incredible lack of understanding of what both of them are saying that I didn’t think it was possible to misunderstand it so badly. Let me try to explain:

The laws are there to PREVENT people from generalising.

Placebo was saying that laws are not made BASED ON generalisations. In fact the exact opposite is true. Rather than making laws based on generalisations, they make laws preventing people from generalising. if the government were to make a law based on a generalisation, they would be breaking other laws preventing them from doing so, specifically the equality act 2004


An example:


A law preventing generalising:
It is illegal to hire someone on the basis that they are female

A law based on generalising:
You can refuse to hire someone if they are female