Reality check

Tom Dunne

A fellow passenger on the train this morning left one of those free papers open and an add for NUI Maynooth caught my eye. It was a PhD studentship in several fields of computing that took my interest and with NUIM only up the road from me, it certainly would suit.

As regular readers will know, I would love to do a PhD. I would like to think I am of the calibre to do PhD, already having a masters and having plenty of industry experience.

It wasn't until I got to the end of the add that I was gobsmacked and a little dismayed. For the "privilege" they are offering a whopping €16k a year, plus expenses.

Now, how in God's name to they expect to attract the best and the brightest with money like that? I can imagine going home to my wife and saying "Hey honey, mind if we drop below the poverty line for four years while I pursue my dream?"

All this talk of fourth level education is just that, talk.

reregholdsworth

understand where you're coming from with this. I think that PhD studentships are really targeted at recently graduated graduates with less financial responsibilities than people like yourself. Could you not look at doing a part-time PhD or work on a project which was industry funded? That way you could remain (just?) above the poverty line.
What exactly are you looking to get out of a PhD? I know that you are a lecturer in IT in Tallaght, presumably it is in your departments best interests to have as many quality researchers as it has teachers. Would it not benefit from funding your researches in another university?

Another possibility might be supplementing your income by taking on a couple of courses in the Open University. That pays around £3500 sterling per course per semester, for what is reckoned to be six hours work per week. Given your experience you would probably not run over the six hours.

€16K a year is generous - what's scandalous is that some places do not allow you to lecture as part of the agreement. But in reality, I wouldn't go back to do a PhD unless it was a higher wage, although I imagine I could inflate it higher with grinds/lectures/tutorials.

Tom Dunne

reregholdsworth wrote: »

What exactly are you looking to get out of a PhD? I know that you are a lecturer in IT in Tallaght, presumably it is in your departments best interests to have as many quality researchers as it has teachers.

Not any more. I am in a regular 9-5 job now, lecturing in the evening at another IT.

I would like to do a PhD for two reasons:

• Because I want to. Simple as that. I love learning, I love knowledge and I want more.
• On a more serious level, if I got a PhD, I should then hopefully get back into lecturing full time, which is what I really want

reregholdsworth wrote: »

Another possibility might be supplementing your income by taking on a couple of courses in the Open University. That pays around £3500 sterling per course per semester, for what is reckoned to be six hours work per week. Given your experience you would probably not run over the six hours.

As above, I already lecture part-time and the money isn't too bad. But let's be honest here, I would be willing to let the life style drop a bit, but not by that much.

But it's a valid point about them aiming this at the likes of younger students straight out of college. Why though? What's the point? Why aren't they aiming it at the likes of me? I could bring a large body of experience, maturity and knowledge that them young whipperspnappers couldn't even contemplate.

newestUser

One of the first threads on this forum was along similar lines.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055052249

I made the following post in that thread:

You don't have to be broke while being a research student in Computer Science.

Your basic grant/funding works out at approx 16-19k. That's tax free.

You may be eligible for a local authority grant. That's 3k, and your fees paid.

There's lot's of opportunitities to get money for labs/tutoring/etc. I got nearly 5k for this last year. I recall once getting paid approx 32 euro p/h for tutorials.

You have very flexible working hours. If you want, you can get a part-time job as well (if you don't mind the additional work!). I work part-time in a call centre, it's uber-flexible, I pick and choose hours I want to work. If my PhD requires a lot of my time, I can disappear for a few weeks. That can add another 4-5k.

All of this is virtually tax free. While being a research student, I've managed to save a deposit for a house (and then some!), while living in rented accomodation in Dublin. And I've managed to have a life as well, ie I'm not sitting on a crate eating pot noodles 7 nights a week. Which I think goes to show that it's not only possible not to be permanently broke, but to actually make money, while doing a PhD. I do work a lot though.

That 16k is tax free. You might be able to get additional grants which are tax free. You can supervise labs, tutorials, etc which typically pays about 25 euro an hour. As I've said, I managed to get work which paid 32 euro an hour. You won't pay a penny of tax on this as your taxable income won't (presumably) be enough to enter the tax net.

I know it's still not ideal, especially for someone with your circumstances. A PhD isn't a proper job though, you're not providing services which are of immediate value and benefit to others. It's not like you're an accountant or a doctor, it's a very self-indulgent body of work which has no commercial focus and far more often than not, won't directly produce anything of commercial value. In this case, why should it be well paid?

Only do a PhD if doing a PhD is reward enough in itself. The opportunities that a PhD will offer you in terms of jobs and money don't justify the sacrifice and work. You give two reasons for doing a PhD:

1. Because I want to.
2. On a serious level, I want to be a lecturer.

I actually think your first reason is the more serious and practical. The rewards that other people offer you for having a PhD are scant; the rewards that are there for you personally are plenty.

<EDIT> in addition to telling your wife that you're going to be moving below the poverty line for a few years, after that's finished, are you prepared to have the conversation where you tell her that you're moving to England for an assistant lecturer job to get your first foot on the lecturing ladder, because there's no lecturing positions currently open in Ireland?

Red Alert

I think a lot of job and career changes involve hard decisions, not just for PhD's NewestUser.

Marcus.Aurelius

I'm on 15k a year for a PhD with UCD. Lecturing is hard to come by and isn't well paid in Universities (€20 per hour for postgrads) compared to over €30 in Institutes of Technology (or so I'm told)

Tom, why not do the PhD part-time? You get 8 years to do it. Trinity, UCD and DCU allow it, IIRC.

May be a hell of a lot better than losing your 9-5 and evenings, you can work the weekend or something to suit yourself. More time to do proper planning too!

Tom Dunne

newestUser wrote: »

it's a very self-indulgent body of work which has no commercial focus and far more often than not, won't directly produce anything of commercial value. In this case, why should it be well paid?

Can you see what's wrong with that? Why is it self-indulgent? Why should it have no commercial focus? Why shouldn't it produce anything of commercial value? I have an idea for research that I believe has great commercial potential (further developing my MSc thesis). I would love to take it to the next level and possibly make money out of it, though that is not my primary objective.

Why aren't the likes of the government bodies trying the damndest to entice people like me out of the workforce and into the "knowledge economy"? It's an investment in the future.

newestUser wrote: »

<EDIT> in addition to telling your wife that you're going to be moving below the poverty line for a few years, after that's finished, are you prepared to have the conversation where you tell her that you're moving to England for an assistant lecturer job to get your first foot on the lecturing ladder, because there's no lecturing positions currently open in Ireland?

To me, this wouldn't be a worry. I have built up enough contacts in various third level institutions to be of benefit.

Tom Dunne

maoleary wrote: »

compared to over €30 in Institutes of Technology (or so I'm told)

Actually €62

maoleary wrote: »

Tom, why not do the PhD part-time? You get 8 years to do it. Trinity, UCD and DCU allow it, IIRC.

Yeah, the head of the dept. I do a few hours for is keen for me to do it part-time. He was my supervisor for my MSc and thinks it would make a great PhD.

I would prefer to commit to it fully, rather than part-time.

OT: just giggling away to myself here for when my wife reads this. She thought I had dropped this idea.

newestUser

Can you see what's wrong with that? Why is it self-indulgent? Why should it have no commercial focus? Why shouldn't it produce anything of commercial value? I have an idea for research that I believe has great commercial potential (further developing my MSc thesis). I would love to take it to the next level and possibly make money out of it, though that is not my primary objective.

The commercial potential of the research carried out by PhD students varies.
It's virtually never done with an eye to producing something of commercial value. My PhD experience went a bit like this:

Stage 1: There is so much to learn about this area, I'm drowning in information here
Stage 2 (1/2 years later): Right, I'm getting a grip on things now, I think I know what this area is about, let's investigate how I can make it better.
Stage 3 (6 months later): Hmmm, here's an idea for my PhD thesis, let me try create a prototype as a proof of concept....
Stage 4 (1 year later): ARGH! I must write up my work!!!

That's a pretty standard progression. At no stage did 'how will this affect the commercial potential of my prototype' enter my head. Because, the process itself is difficult enough without introducing yet another set of variables, and producing something that has commercial value is different from producing something that has academic value.

A PhD is supposed to be your apprenticeship as a scholar, where you learn how to produce original knowledge of high quality. It's not an apprenticeship as an entrepreneur. You can take the practices, skills, and attributes you've developed during your PhD and go about starting up a new business, but, in my experience, there's no space for the entrepreneurial aspect in the PhD process. You're just too busy trying to deal with the academic aspect!

This is a complex issue. The bubble-like atmosphere of academic research can be somewhat irritating and I do think that there's not enough ROI on the money spent on funding third level research in terms of start-up companies, etc, and that there should be more a commercial focus on what research is carried out. But it's not an easy problem to solve. Off the top of my head, I think that attention should be focussed on providing PhD graduates (ie post-docs) with the opportunities to use their skills, commercialise their work, etc. instead of trying to increase the commercial focus of the work that PhD students do. The PhD process is difficult enough, without trying to get students to think about the commercial aspect of their work. Getting students to think along these lines may damage the academic merit of their work. Most PhD students wouldn't be able to handle it. It's hard enough learning to think like a researcher, without having to think like an entrepreneur as well, and I suspect that pushing PhD students in this direction will cause them to fall between two stools.

This is a complex issue, which I'm not particularly qualified to comment on (even though I've just finished a PhD!), and may arouse, ahem, passionate debate. However I can sure as f*ck tell you one thing: there was no room in my PhD process for considering the commercial aspect of my work. Seriously. No time. The academic side of things was too demanding. And I suspect that if this did form a significant part of my PhD, what I would be doing would not be considered research: research is making an original contribution to an existing body of knowledge. Commercial value doesn't enter the equation. And encouraging PhD students to consider the commercial value of their work may push them to produce work which, although has commercial value, doesn't have academic value.

Tom Dunne

newestUser wrote: »

A PhD is supposed to be your apprenticeship as a scholar, where you learn how to produce original knowledge of high quality. It's not an apprenticeship as an entrepreneur. You can take the practices, skills, and attributes you've developed during your PhD and go about starting up a new business, but, in my experience, there's no space for the entrepreneurial aspect in the PhD process. You're just too busy trying to deal with the academic aspect!

Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree fully. It would not at all be acceptable that commercial interests "tarnish" the quality of research a PhD produces. If a PhD student had one eye on research and the other on the bank balance, not only would he go cross-eyed, but I personally believe it would change the nature of such research.

newestUser wrote: »

This is a complex issue, which I'm not particularly qualified to comment on (even though I've just finished a PhD!), and may arouse, ahem, passionate debate.

Well then, you are more qualified to debate this than me.

newestUser wrote: »

However I can sure as f*ck tell you one thing: there was no room in my PhD process for considering the commercial aspect of my work. Seriously. No time. The academic side of things was too demanding.

Again, I fully accept that. But, and it's a big but, shouldn't the likes of funding bodies be looking at the commercial potential? Leaving the academics to concentrate on, well, the academic stuff? Shouldn't they be looking at how they can attract the brightest and best? And to do that entails some kind of carrot. And let's be honest here, there is no bigger carrot than money.

Shouldn't they be worrying about the potential of a project, and not the student? Shouldn't they be the ones who will take the research and then apply that, perhaps as you suggest, to post-docs?

I should point out that I am probably coming across as a very money-orientated person, when I am in fact not. I am a true academic, or so I would like to think. I just feel there is such potential being lost with the likes of me who cannot see any remote incentive to do a PhD.

blucey

First, lets look at this coldly.
If you are only into a PhD for commercial reasons, its the worng thing to do. The payoff to a Phd, in most all cases, is negative. You get less, on average, over your working life, than those without.
Second, 16 tax free plus fees is perfectly adequate for a new graduate. If Tom you really really want to do a PhD, have a commercial idea that it may spawn, and the contacts in academia...then do it PT. Write a proposal, send it to someone and off you go. I have two academics in other institutions working with me towards a PhD. So it can be done. I did it myself, PT in Scotland.
Third, a PhD is NOT about a commercial issue. If that were the case then no more PhDs in anything other than what SFI or IRCSET deign to fund. A PhD must and should be done for the love of research. Otherwise its ...I dunno, a slog anyhow.
Fourth, for a huge number of PhD students they get ZERO. But they do it. Because they love research, not because they want to be the new Bill Gates erk...isnt one enough?)
Finally, I for one want to see someone doing a PhD give up something. Time for sure, money maybe. Some skin in the game helps to keep everyone sharp.

blucey

First, lets look at this coldly.
If you are only into a PhD for commercial reasons, its the worng thing to do. The payoff to a Phd, in most all cases, is negative. You get less, on average, over your working life, than those without.
Second, 16 tax free plus fees is perfectly adequate for a new graduate. If Tom you really really want to do a PhD, have a commercial idea that it may spawn, and the contacts in academia...then do it PT. Youre well able for it. Write a proposal, send it to someone and off you go. I have two academics in other institutions working with me towards a PhD. So it can be done. I did it myself, PT in Scotland.
Third, a PhD is NOT about a commercial issue. If that were the case then no more PhDs in anything other than what SFI or IRCSET deign to fund. A PhD must and should be done for the love of research. Otherwise its ...I dunno, a slog anyhow.
Fourth, for a huge number of PhD students they get ZERO. But they do it. Because they love research, not because they want to be the new Bill Gates erk...isnt one enough?)
Finally, I for one want to see someone doing a PhD give up something. Time for sure, money maybe. Some skin in the game helps to keep everyone sharp.

Afuera

blucey wrote: »

The payoff to a Phd, in most all cases, is negative. You get less, on average, over your working life, than those without.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. Is this based on your opinion or have there actually been studies done to work out the average payoff for a PhD?

pow wow

Afuera wrote: »

That's an interesting way of looking at it. Is this based on your opinion or have there actually been studies done to work out the average payoff for a PhD?

Maybe (s)he is taking into account the potential income lost for the duration of your PhD hence the average being lower than if you'd spent that 4/5 years in a full-time (and commensurately paid!) job.....or maybe we're just all doomed.

blucey

Afuera wrote: »

That's an interesting way of looking at it. Is this based on your opinion or have there actually been studies done to work out the average payoff for a PhD?

Taken from "The Return to a University Education in Great Britain
O’Leary and Sloane National Institute Economic Review.2005; 193: 75-89"
"At the doctoral level, sample sizes are rather small with subsequently higher standard errors (in some cases), but on the whole these indicate that doctoral study is a worthwhile investment over and above an undergraduate degree. Business and Financial Studies (20.21 per cent) again emerges as the subject attracting the greatest premium relative to undergraduate study, closely followed by Medicine and Related (17.81 per cent). Reasonable returns are also evident in Combined (11.16 per cent), Sciences (7.85 per cent) and Social Sciences (7.50 per cent), while lesser returns are on offer in Engineering and Technology (4.97 per cent), Maths and Computing (4.78 per cent) and Arts (4.48 percent). It is interesting to note also that the returns to both Arts and Engineering and Technology PhDs are less than the rewards from gaining a masters-level qualification in these subjects"
So I stand somewhat corrected; Note however that this doesnt take into account, as a poster says, the lost wages for 4 years v say 1 year with a masters. This can be substantial.
This paper also notes the excess returns to a degree over a non-degreee earler : For male undergrad / masters / doctorate its 20/29/31%, for women 35/54/60 %. So a very small return extra guys .
Download at http://ssrn.com/abstract=566781

newestUser

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I should point out that I am probably coming across as a very money-orientated person, when I am in fact not. I am a true academic, or so I would like to think. I just feel there is such potential being lost with the likes of me who cannot see any remote incentive to do a PhD.

There's nothing wrong with being a commercially/money orientated person. There's nothing wrong with wanting to create something of commercial value. I don't believe that creating something of academic value is morally superior than creating something of commercial value.

However, a PhD is an apprenticeship as a scholar/scientist. It's not an apprenticeship as an entrepreneur. Thinking like a scientist is not the same as thinking as a businessman, it's a different process. They're two completely different jobs. One's not morally superior to the other, it's just that I feel that compelling PhD students to consider commercial aspects of their work can be pointless and counter-productive.

Now I'll justify the self-indulgent comment I made. When you do a PhD, you are on a very long leash. Your supervisor meets up with you every couple of weeks (hopefully!), chats about your work for a bit, then lets you go do your thing. You can't be micro-managed (indeed, relative to other jobs, you can't be managed at all!) because the point of doing a PhD is to prove you can come up with an original idea, and proof for that idea, that meets the standards of complexity, relevance, and originality that other people who already have the degree in that area feel merits a doctorate. You can't be told what to do, you just have to be let go and make your own mistakes and do your own thing, and come up with your own ideas, and draw your own conclusions, and 95% of the time, you'll be going down dead ends, making mistakes, you won't have a clue what you're talking about, you won't have a clue what you want to do, and when you figure that out, you won't have a clue how to do it! A lot of time is spent going over things in your head, developing your thought process, having lots of cups of tea, pacing your room, wondering aloud, talking to other people about your half-baked ideas, and generally contemplating and reflecting. In this respect, it's a very self-indulgent process. You're not providing any service to anyone, you're literally spending years of your life thinking about an idea, and thinking about the way you're thinking about that idea, etc. Compared to what a nurse/doctor/guard/teacher does, it is pretty self-indulgent. But it's okay to indulge yourself.

The laissez-faire environment of post-grad research can lead to people being self-indulgent in less noble ways as well. I've had my supervisor walk in on me with my feet up on the desk, with the Simpsons or Friends full screen on the monitor, jumbo breakfast roll in one hand, can of coke in the other, and he didn't give a f*ck. In many computer science labs (indeed, in most I've been in) you could walk in at noon, play video games for four hours, then p!ss off home, and nothing would be said. You could come in and use the labs facilities to run your own business on the side (within reason), and nothing would be said. I've never encountered any kind of work environment outside of post-grad research labs that would be so indulgent. The money might be cr@p in research, but the freedom is great. You can use that freedom anyway you want.

reregholdsworth

just a quick thought on the commercial versus research values of doctoral research - especially in regard to computer science.

Is it not the case that many PhD projects which have been undertaken recently in Irish universities have been vehicles designed to further the commercial interests of faculty members?

hence the enthusiasm or otherwise of project supervisors...

I am not completely informed on this matter and so am receptive to being corrected.

blucey

reregholdsworth wrote: »

just a quick thought on the commercial versus research values of doctoral research - especially in regard to computer science.

Is it not the case that many PhD projects which have been undertaken recently in Irish universities have been vehicles designed to further the commercial interests of faculty members?

hence the enthusiasm or otherwise of project supervisors...

I am not completely informed on this matter and so am receptive to being corrected.

Id say a few ole facts or references would help here. Also, you have to distinguish between getting a doctoral candidate to do your research on the cheap for MyCorp and being sponsored by a campus company.

blucey

newestUser wrote: »

Now I'll justify the self-indulgent comment I made. When you do a PhD, you are on a very long leash. Your supervisor meets up with you every couple of weeks (hopefully!), chats about your work for a bit, then lets you go do your thing. You can't be micro-managed (indeed, relative to other jobs, you can't be managed at all!) because the point of doing a PhD is to prove you can come up with an original idea, and proof for that idea, that meets the standards of complexity, relevance, and originality that other people who already have the degree in that area feel merits a doctorate. You can't be told what to do, you just have to be let go and make your own mistakes and do your own thing, and come up with your own ideas, and draw your own conclusions, and 95% of the time, you'll be going down dead ends, making mistakes, you won't have a clue what you're talking about, you won't have a clue what you want to do, and when you figure that out, you won't have a clue how to do it! A lot of time is spent going over things in your head, developing your thought process, having lots of cups of tea, pacing your room, wondering aloud, talking to other people about your half-baked ideas, and generally contemplating and reflecting. In this respect, it's a very self-indulgent process. You're not providing any service to anyone, you're literally spending years of your life thinking about an idea, and thinking about the way you're thinking about that idea, etc. Compared to what a nurse/doctor/guard/teacher does, it is pretty self-indulgent. But it's okay to indulge yourself.

I would debate the bolded point. I make a point of meeting my doctoral students every week, if at all possible, plus regular chats/coffee/pints etc.

Also, while you do have to come up with a novel idea etc, you shouldnt spend 95% of the time wild goose chasing. Your supervisor should direct you in broad areas, and let you go. Part of the problem is that people feel they can take 4/5/6 years to do what should be 3 or 4 at max. Its a PhD, not a lifelong research plan. . IMHO

Hes right re the feet on desk however. so long as the brain is working, the body can chill

Afuera

blucey wrote: »

Taken from "The Return to a University Education in Great Britain
O’Leary and Sloane National Institute Economic Review.2005; 193: 75-89"...

Thanks for following that up with some sources. Certainly gives some food for thought. Since those links seem to be focused on the UK, I wonder if it applies similarly to all countries? I'd imagine that the payoff would be far greater in the States for example.

Tom Dunne

Some excellent discussion going on here.

newestUser wrote: »

Now I'll justify the self-indulgent comment I made.
<snip>
But it's okay to indulge yourself.

This is a very interesting point. Having thought about it, what I would be proposing would be self-indulgent in a way. I have a piece of software, that I created as part of my MSc, that is fairly specialised and would, I feel, make a great research area. Or at least, the foundations for solid research.

Also, as I mentioned in my second or third post, one of the main reasons I want to do it is "just because". So, more self indulgence.

newestUser wrote: »

I've had my supervisor walk in on me with my feet up on the desk, with the Simpsons or Friends full screen on the monitor, jumbo breakfast roll in one hand, can of coke in the other, and he didn't give a f*ck. In many computer science labs (indeed, in most I've been in) you could walk in at noon, play video games for four hours, then p!ss off home, and nothing would be said. You could come in and use the labs facilities to run your own business on the side (within reason), and nothing would be said. I've never encountered any kind of work environment outside of post-grad research labs that would be so indulgent. The money might be cr@p in research, but the freedom is great. You can use that freedom anyway you want.

I wouldn't see that as much of a problem, tbh. I supervise post-grad students also, and I personally wouldn't have a problem with them playing games, feet up on the desk, etc. as long as the work was being done at some stage. In fact, I would be more inclined to encourage a break from the usual grind to keep the mind fresh.

blucey wrote: »

Hes right re the feet on desk however. so long as the brain is working, the body can chill

Exactly. Downtime is needed at some point.

blucey

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Some excellent discussion going on here.



This is a very interesting point. Having thought about it, what I would be proposing would be self-indulgent in a way. I have a piece of software, that I created as part of my MSc, that is fairly specialised and would, I feel, make a great research area. Or at least, the foundations for solid research.

Also, as I mentioned in my second or third post, one of the main reasons I want to do it is "just because". So, more self indulgence.




I wouldn't see that as much of a problem, tbh. I supervise post-grad students also, and I personally wouldn't have a problem with them playing games, feet up on the desk, etc. as long as the work was being done at some stage. In fact, I would be more inclined to encourage a break from the usual grind to keep the mind fresh.



Exactly. Downtime is needed at some point.

Tom - the great thing about being a wee bit older is that you can take on and manage complex projects. So, again, I say go contact the leading three researchers in the area in Ireland, introduce your wrk, and askk if they are interested in supervising a PhD in that or a closely related area (PT). You should get a bite.

Tom Dunne

blucey wrote: »

Tom - the great thing about being a wee bit older is that you can take on and manage complex projects. So, again, I say go contact the leading three researchers in the area in Ireland, introduce your wrk, and askk if they are interested in supervising a PhD in that or a closely related area (PT). You should get a bite.

You know what, I think I will do that. Actually, I know for a fact that there are people in the college I work in who deal regularly with the funding bodies, I might have a chat with them first.

Phaetonman

Funding for students isn't too easy to come by. Much better off having a few young and ambitious students go through the pain of phd study than blowing all the money just so a single dinosaur can live comfortably.

Get real, 16K is plenty of money for a lot of students.

And why bother get a PhD if you have a masters and a lecturing job. I'm guessing its the usual I.T. inferiority complex have to keep up with the Unis.

Tom Dunne

Phaetonman wrote: »

Funding for students isn't too easy to come by. Much better off having a few young and ambitious students go through the pain of phd study than blowing all the money just so a single dinosaur can live comfortably.

Get real, 16K is plenty of money for a lot of students.

And why bother get a PhD if you have a masters and a lecturing job. I'm guessing its the usual I.T. inferiority complex have to keep up with the Unis.

Ouch. Somebody is a grump this morning.

Red Alert

Phaetonman banned for one week for two breaches of the forum charter: being abusive to other posters and trolling.

Marcus.Aurelius

Tom,

62 *&(*ing euro????!!!!!

GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Tom Dunne

maoleary wrote: »

Tom,

62 *&(*ing euro????!!!!!

GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Yes.

Which reminds me, I must put in my timesheet for this semester. Roll on the holidays.

NextSteps

If you decide to do it PT, be sure to get your work to pay your fees and/or agree a certain amount (even 2 weeks) of study leave per year. (And explain to your wife about how you won't be seeing her for the next six years or so.)

dfx-

newestUser wrote: »

A lot of time is spent going over things in your head, developing your thought process, having lots of cups of tea, pacing your room, wondering aloud, talking to other people about your half-baked ideas, and generally contemplating and reflecting.

:eek:

I'm doing the wrong PhD!