Cancer Services Debate Tonight

de5p0i1er

There is a debate in the Dáil on a opposition motion to save cancer services in Mayo and Sligo at 7pm. tonight, 20/05/08. I'm asking anyone near Dáil Éireann at that time to please go there and show your support and help retain vital these services for the west.

Thank You.

guinnessdrinker

I could be wrong but is does the FG motion only include a delay in the downgrading of cancer services in Mayo and Sligo for five years?

I heard Enda Kenny on the radio a few weeks ago and I think this is what he was talking about but it may have changed since. Can anyone give any clarification on this?

ninty9er

de5p0i1er wrote: »

There is a debate in the Dáil on a opposition motion to save cancer services in Mayo and Sligo at 7pm. tonight, 20/05/08. I'm asking anyone near Dáil Éireann at that time to please go there and show your support and help retain vital these services for the west.

Thank You.

These services are vital, but it is not vital that they are in the west. People are missing this point. My nanna lived for 5 years with cancer and got the best possible care in St. Luke's. It didn't really matter to us that she was 100 miles away as long as she was still breathing.

If cutting cancer services anywhere leads to better services for all elsewhere, then that is the way forward.

(P.S. not just anyone can get into Leinster House)

guinnessdrinker

ninty9er wrote: »

If cutting cancer services anywhere leads to better services for all elsewhere, then that is the way forward.

Try explaining that to some of these protesters. They feel strongly enough about the issue to come out and march.

Chakar

I agree with this proposal to close the cancer services in Mayo and Sligo to pave the way for the centralisation of services with the concentration of resources latterly used in the provision of these services.

It's natural that people would prefer to avoid change, but it's for long term gains. They're entitled to their opinion and to express it.

Not just anybody can walk into the grounds of Leinster House and the building. It's done by prior arrangement with a TD, Senator or whoever.

oscarBravo

I can't help but notice that the two Fianna Fáil supporters that are in favour of centralising cancer services both have locations that coincide with proposed locations for those services.

I made the point in another thread that it's all very well centralising services, but if you live in Letterkenny and your nearest cancer centre is in Galway, you're going to spend quite literally all day, every day travelling for an hour's treatment.

Mr.Micro

You dilute any cancer treatment service by having small regional or local services with a limited HSE budget, as these centres are extremely limited as to what treatments they can provide, and a resident specialist oncologist needs to be in situ, again not feasible for a small centre. Most patients in reality have to go to a large hospital anyway for expertise. The only way forward is the centres of excellence where all cancers can be treated,with the right staff and on the limited HSE budget.

Its Politicians getting on the act for their own gains and afraid of losing power at local and national level. These people should get informed before meddling.

oscarBravo

Cool. Why not create one absolutely enormous centre? We could put it in Athlone.

de5p0i1er

oscarBravo wrote: »

Cool. Why not create one absolutely enormous centre? We could put it in Athlone.

Athlone doesn't have enough TD's.

ninty9er

oscarBravo wrote: »

.

I made the point in another thread that it's all very well centralising services, but if you live in Letterkenny and your nearest cancer centre is in Galway, you're going to spend quite literally all day, every day travelling for an hour's treatment.

Not being funny or blunt; but that's the price you pay for a better shot at survival. It's not an emergency service which suddenly requires a person to be admitted to a hospital. You'll find most hospitals can arrange for someone to stay in the hospital if they are having daily treatment. I know the guy in the bed next to me in hospital had been there 5 weeks receiving radiotherapy for throat cancer.

oscarBravo

ninty9er wrote: »

Not being funny or blunt; but that's the price you pay for a better shot at survival. It's not an emergency service which suddenly requires a person to be admitted to a hospital. You'll find most hospitals can arrange for someone to stay in the hospital if they are having daily treatment. I know the guy in the bed next to me in hospital had been there 5 weeks receiving radiotherapy for throat cancer.

So what about my single mega-centre in Athlone? Hell, why not one seriously enormous one in Berlin?

guinnessdrinker

Mr.Micro wrote: »

You dilute any cancer treatment service by having small regional or local services with a limited HSE budget, as these centres are extremely limited as to what treatments they can provide, and a resident specialist oncologist needs to be in situ, again not feasible for a small centre. Most patients in reality have to go to a large hospital anyway for expertise. The only way forward is the centres of excellence where all cancers can be treated,with the right staff and on the limited HSE budget.

Theoretically this is all true and on paper it looks a no brainer.

But one of the main problems is the geographical spread of the centre of excellences. In 2000 Prof Niall O'Higgins published a report that recommended the streamlining of services, with 13 specialist centres across the State. This has now been reduced to 8 centres. The geographic line north of Dublin to Galway will have no centre of excellence.

This leaves patients living in areas of Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim, North Mayo, North Roscommon, West Cavan having to travel large distances to receive their treatment. Now, if we had better infrastructure in place this might not have been such a problem, however we don't. For example there are no rail routes connecting Galway with Donegal, Sligo or Leitrim for instance. Plus the roads in many areas of all those counties sometimes leave a lot to be desired. Whereas the roads connecting Galway, Limerick, Cork to Dublin are all better class. People don't want to travel 3 hours plus in some cases to get to a hospital and then to have to wait for treatment then travel another 3 hours home again.

The reason you see the thousands of people on protest marches against the governments decision is not because they believe the treatment will not be better in the centre of excellences because it will but because they feel an injustice is being done. There should be a centre of excellence located somewhere in the North West.

brianthebard

A person's mindset has as much effect on their recovery as anything and knowing that they have to face a long commute while seriously ill is not going to do anyone any favours. also as GD has already pointed out the report suggested more centres than are being provided. The government doesn't get to decide that one part of the country is less important than another based on geography.

jmayo

Noticable that two of the posters who have no problem with Mayo/Sligo loosing cancer treatment facilities happen to be based in Dublin and Limerick.
Both of whom will probably have multiple cancer treatment facilities available to them. Oh and before they state it may be just as time consuming to access these facilities in rush hour traffic, I would counter with fact that the time taken to go across Dublin may vary according to time of day whereas the disctances from Bellmullet or Buncrana to Galway never varies.
So if we really want to centralise everything then why not go with OscarBravo's idea of Athlone. It has rail links and would probably be the most geogrpahically central.

Of course to continue the trend of placing new high tech central medical facilities in Taoiseach's constinuency (ala the Childrens hospital beside Mater) then the new facility could be placed in Tullamore.

This whole thiing is like the idea of centralising Emergency and trauma facilities. It would be great if there were good roads and air ambulances but we don't and it looks like it will be a long time coming.

Mr.Micro

Guinnessdrinker,

I agree there should be strategic centres of excellence but at the minute cancer suffers are not getting any form of decent service. The small local services as I stated in an earlier post are very limited in what they can do/provide and most cases have to go to a big hospital. At the minute in the area I live in the Oncologist spends 3 days at the main hospital,1 day a small local hospital and another day at another small hospital, this pattern is repeated by his colleagues in other areas. This means that these small hospitals cannot provide any degree of real Oncology treatment but still have to be funded from the HSE budget. IMO there should be centres no more than 40 miles radius if that was possible.

fly_agaric

jmayo wrote: »

So if we really want to centralise everything then why not go with OscarBravo's idea of Athlone. It has rail links and would probably be the most geogrpahically central.

So either the population of Ireland is uniformly distrubuted or acres of land access cancer treatment services too?

The govt. (and private companies also) can (and do) locate their services based on population density. Is there any country where this is not true?

jmayo wrote: »

Oh and before they state it may be just as time consuming to access these facilities in rush hour traffic, I would counter with fact that the time taken to go across Dublin may vary according to time of day

I have to say this, the "rush hour"? More like the "Rush 9 hours" or (soon to be I'm sure) the "Rush Day"!:pac:

jmayo wrote: »

This whole thing is like the idea of centralising Emergency and trauma facilities. It would be great if there were good roads and air ambulances but we don't and it looks like it will be a long time coming.

guinnessdrinker wrote:

People don't want to travel 3 hours plus in some cases to get to a hospital and then to have to wait for treatment then travel another 3 hours home again.

True.

Despite what I posted above I feel this whole thing will end badly, alot more guff about "centres of excellence" will be spouted, existing facilities will be closed, and no improvements in the remaining facilities (or access to them for people who need to travel longer distances) will be made.

ninty9er

It doesn't matter if 5 centres are in Dublin, if the prostate cancer centre is in Limerick, dublin folk will have to travel to Limerick along with the rest of the country for that particular treatment.

And as already stated. There is no requirement to commute, there are always inpatient options.

LostinBlanch

ninty9er wrote: »

My nanna lived for 5 years with cancer and got the best possible care in St. Luke's.

Wasn't St Lukes one of the hopsitals that was going to be sold off / closed down to make way for colocation?

oscarBravo

ninty9er wrote: »

It doesn't matter if 5 centres are in Dublin, if the prostate cancer centre is in Limerick, dublin folk will have to travel to Limerick along with the rest of the country for that particular treatment.

Hand on heart: does anyone honestly believe that anyone from Dublin will have to leave the capital for treatment?

And as already stated. There is no requirement to commute, there are always inpatient options.

Great, now you're tying up beds for people who don't actually need them.

I don't have a problem with centres of excellence, my problem is with the cavalier attitude towards their location.

brianthebard

I didn't hear the news on this debate, how did it go? was there a vote and how did the FF tds from sligo and mayo vote?