A New Current model Accord 2.2 Diesel Exec now €38k

tw0nk

Your right there Cyrus, and to answer your question about the interior, its a good bit nicer than the usual Jap car interiors. I been thinking long and hard on what my next car will be and it will be my first really nice car as only now I can afford it, at first I was looking at bmw and audi (I feel im a little too young for merc) but the audi a4 and 3 series just didnt impress me too much for the money.

I will admit though that the 320d is a nice car to drive and the audi a4 quattro is absolutely amazing to drive but very pricey. For value for money the accord wins in my book, but as e92 said earlier, they probably should have released models with smaller engine size and that would have dramatically increased sales.

Just to finish off, if I had the money my choice would be a 530d with the m pack, they look stunning and are a dream to drive.

Stevie Dakota

I was looking at a loaded petrol Accord a while back, nearly new, took it for a drive and it to be honest I can't remember a damn thing about it. That could be because the dealer also had an older 520i (E39) that I took for a spin afterwards, I was stunned at how much better the BMW was in every respect. Now I know that is not comparing like with like, but the Honda does aspire to BMW levels of quality, but on this experience it was nowhere near.

tw0nk

It may sound funny but one gripe I have about the accord is the steering wheel, its too thin, even the leather zetec steering wheel on my focus is better, as a matter of interest, is it hard or expensive to replace a steering wheel?

VH

E92 wrote: »

I always liked the old Accord, but I always thought it had ideas about its station in life(as does the new one) and a lot of people seem to have agreed with me on it with the amount of sales they had(or rather didn't have)....

.....versus the A4 and 3-series?

Is that a bad thing?

Biro

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

I was looking at a loaded petrol Accord a while back, nearly new, took it for a drive and it to be honest I can't remember a damn thing about it. That could be because the dealer also had an older 520i (E39) that I took for a spin afterwards, I was stunned at how much better the BMW was in every respect. Now I know that is not comparing like with like, but the Honda does aspire to BMW levels of quality, but on this experience it was nowhere near.

Maybe you should drive a Honda Legend.

Biro

E92 wrote: »

The same Autocar I read was rather underwhelmed by the new Accord.

I always liked the old Accord, but I always thought it had ideas about its station in life(as does the new one) and a lot of people seem to have agreed with me on it with the amount of sales they had(or rather didn't have).

If they offered it with smaller engines and lowered the price I'm sure it would have sold by the bucket load, and it would have deserved to too if they did.

Can you tell me so why an A4 has ideas that it is worth €6,000 more than a car bigger than it with similar build quality and refinement? And why a pokey 3 series is worth more than an Accord because it has sharper steering? Be honest - you don't have experience with these cars extensively, so you're going solely by the reports of biased English journalists who will never say anything bad about their beloved (overrated) 3-series, mondeo and focus. The Mondeo is good, the Focus is OK, the 3-series isn't worth it's ratings. Mechanically good with a nice chassis isn't enough to give it the ratings that it gets. The 4 pot diesel is very good, but a 318i doesn't come close to a petrol Accord for value and overall feel. A slightly more expensive plastic doesn't make up for a pokey cabin.

Cyrus

agree with some of that, but the point is the best 3 series is far far better than the best accord (without getting into the Ms)

a 335d/i is far better than anything honda offer, now i know it costs €€€€ more but thats why the bmw has the better rep.

E92

Biro wrote: »

Can you tell me so why an A4 has ideas that it is worth €6,000 more than a car bigger than it with similar build quality and refinement?

What car is that? The cheapest A4 will be €35,100 from July, according to a guy who sells them.

Anyway cars like the A4/3 series have a "better" badge, which like it or lump it, rightly or wrongly is a fact of life and that's why they can charge more(whether they should or shouldn't is another debate) for the same car. And if you look at the sales figures, plenty of people don't seem to mind paying for a badge(not that I'm defending them or anything, personally I wouldn't be seen dead in a 316i, but that is the reality of the situation), and they hold a premium in the used car market too, so you're not really paying a whole pile more when you take depreciation into account, which most people tend to ignore for some reason.

If you want a decent version of a Mondeo/Avensis you're practically at the price of an A4/3 series anyway and those cars will be worth so much more when you try to sell them, dealers aren't going to be too keen on a 2.0 Titanium X Mondeo for example, while they'll love you for having a bog spec 318i to trade in. So you're not really paying more for a BMW/Audi, because you'll get your money back when you try and sell them on.

Biro wrote: »

And why a pokey 3 series is worth more than an Accord because it has sharper steering?

RWD is dearer to make than FWD. Direct injection petrol engines aren't cheap either. The 3 series petrol emits less CO2 than the diesel Accord, and nearly matches it for economy, so you get diesel economy and all the benefits of petrol power thrown in for good measure. RWD takes up more space than FWD anyway, BMW might have good engineers, but they can't defy physics:D!

Biro wrote: »

so you're going solely by the reports of biased English journalists who will never say anything bad about their beloved (overrated) 3-series, mondeo and focus.

Why are they "biased"? Is it because you don't like their opinion;)?

I have found when I drive cars/go in cars that while they're not always right, generally I find the same things right/wrong with a car that they do. The only thing I find myself at odds with is their relentless love of diesel power(not that is overrated if ever something was overrated).

bazz26

Cyrus wrote: »

maybe im wrong but your tone seems to indicate a certain defensiveness? im not having a go at them im genuinely interested, they do nothing for me personally, the look ok in that honda futuristic style but dont seem to have any genuinely quick models? is the interior an improvement on usual jap cars?

Not at all, I was simply trying to explain that it is horses for courses in the sense that an Accord does nothing for you, a 3 Series does nothing for me either.

tw0nk

E92 wrote: »

The 3 series petrol emits less CO2 than the diesel Accord, and nearly matches it for economy, so you get diesel economy and all the benefits of petrol .QUOTE]


E92, can you please clear something up for me about BMW's....

This efficient dynamics thing and new engines that is the reason for all these major economy and emission improvements..... is it just 08 BMW's and onwards or do all "new shape" bmw's have this technology? I do a lot of mileage every day (140 miles) and if the petrol BMW matches the accord for MPG I might lean a bit towards a 05 new shape 318

Biro

E92 wrote: »

If you want a decent version of a Mondeo/Avensis you're practically at the price of an A4/3 series anyway and those cars will be worth so much more when you try to sell them, dealers aren't going to be too keen on a 2.0 Titanium X Mondeo for example, while they'll love you for having a bog spec 318i to trade in. So you're not really paying more for a BMW/Audi, because you'll get your money back when you try and sell them on.

That's my point in one way. If you want a better badge and a true step up in overall package, you need to go to the A6 and 5-series. I don't see the point in paying more to get less. Why isn't the 3-series and A4 the same size as the Mondeo/Accord/Avensis/Passat to begin with? Then you can compare like with like. The fact is that if you want similar sized cars with the prestige badge you have to leap to the middle sector.

E92 wrote: »

RWD is dearer to make than FWD. Direct injection petrol engines aren't cheap either. The 3 series petrol emits less CO2 than the diesel Accord, and nearly matches it for economy, so you get diesel economy and all the benefits of petrol power thrown in for good measure. RWD takes up more space than FWD anyway, BMW might have good engineers, but they can't defy physics:D!

It emits less CO2 simply because half the test is in traffic, where the 3-series engine is off. I wouldn't rate that as an arguement for or against a car really.

E92 wrote: »

Why are they "biased"? Is it because you don't like their opinion;)?

No, because we hear nothing else from them in one sense! They have a point of view and don't change it, therefore are biased.

E92

tw0nk wrote: »

E92, can you please clear something up for me about BMW's....

This efficient dynamics thing and new engines that is the reason for all these major economy and emission improvements..... is it just 08 BMW's and onwards or do all "new shape" bmw's have this technology? I do a lot of mileage every day (140 miles) and if the petrol BMW matches the accord for MPG I might lean a bit towards a 05 new shape 318

Unfortunately in the case of the 3 series, it's only this year's cars. It's not like there's anything extraordinary about EfficientDynamics, all it is is a couple of goodies borrowed from hybrid cars(and from cars over 20 years ago); auto start stop for 4 cylinder manual models, the energy normally lost by braking is used to power some of the car's electrics and charge up the battery, lower rolling resistance tyres, flaps which close when not necessary making the car more aerodynamic, optimum gearshidfft indicator, and more advanced engine technologies as alluded to by me in my previous post. It does however seem to give genuine economy improvements though, unlike hybrids which are a bit of a false dawn on the economy front. BMWs/MINIs with ED have been tested by car magazines and they did find BMWs/MINIs to be more economical in the real world than comparable rival cars, as the official tests suggest they are.

The older versions are a bit more frugal than rival cars, but nothing worthy of me consistently banging on about it;)!

Biro

tw0nk wrote: »

E92 wrote: »

The 3 series petrol emits less CO2 than the diesel Accord, and nearly matches it for economy, so you get diesel economy and all the benefits of petrol .QUOTE]


E92, can you please clear something up for me about BMW's....

This efficient dynamics thing and new engines that is the reason for all these major economy and emission improvements..... is it just 08 BMW's and onwards or do all "new shape" bmw's have this technology? I do a lot of mileage every day (140 miles) and if the petrol BMW matches the accord for MPG I might lean a bit towards a 05 new shape 318

I'll be honest here, I think the economy figures are a load of bull. BMW have found a method of extracting an improvement from the economy of the engines that plays exactly into the CO2 test hands. Fair play to them! But in your real world situation, I'd be willing to put money on the Accord getting better mileage. A demo for 2 weeks should give you a better picture.

E92

Biro wrote: »

It emits less CO2 simply because half the test is in traffic, where the 3-series engine is off. I wouldn't rate that as an arguement for or against a car really.

BMW reckons that auto start stop will improve fuel consumption by just 3%. That means the other 20% of the 23% fuel consumption improvements that BMW claim are there from the EfficientDynamics system came from somewhere else!

If as you claim that ASS is somehow singlehandedly responsible for the mpg figures that BMW managed to "extract" form the EU tests, can you explain to me why the 6 cylinder models with ED showed a bigger improvement in the official EU tests than the 4 cylinder models with ED, vis a vis their non ED sisters, when 4 cylinder models are equipped with ASS and the 6 cylinder models are not?

Biro

E92 wrote: »

If as you claim that ASS is somehow singlehandedly responsible for the mpg figures that BMW managed to "extract" form the EU tests, can you explain to me why the 6 cylinder models with ED showed a bigger improvement in the official EU tests than the 4 cylinder models with ED, vis a vis their non ED sisters, when 4 cylinder models are equipped with ASS and the 6 cylinder models are not?

I can't! But I'd still like to test the theory with a demo for 2 weeks.

groupb

groupb wrote: »

The new accord was tested by Autocar a couple of weeks back and it did very well , easily beating the A4 diesel and only just loosing out to the mondeo.

You're right E92. last week they only gave it 3.5 stars and put it 4th in the class behind the mondeo, mazda6 and citroen C5.
Just looking at the pictures of it and it looks worse than the new mazda 6.

niceirishfella

here's my angle on it - the Honda Accord 2.2Diesel is king of the Jap mid range diesel motors on the market -

but to me, it cannot compete against a BM or Audi - maybe i'm just a snob but there ya go.

groupb

It is the snob in you in the case of audi.I can't understand anyone that thinks an audi is good enough to compete with a BMW or a honda or a ford for that matter. A BMW is a quality rear drive car that generally drives well and has class leading engines. An audi has what? At least honda build cars that are different. They may not be class leaders but they are'nt rehashed vw's flogged by a slick marketing team.

Bee

Stephen wrote: »

^^ That still boils my piss. Why can't I opt in with my '07 car you tight bastards :mad:

Because of the knit your own sandals, $crew you mate,we are saving the planet! Oirish Green party gob$hites!:p

Just imagine sane people voted these amateurs into power and to show how dumb they were, Green party supporters that have supposedly done the enviormentally friendly thing by having previously bought diesels and now are being rewarded( $crewed) by their own party to now suffer major depreciation due to the vrt fiasco.

E92

Bee wrote: »

Green party supporters that have supposedly done the enviormentally friendly thing by having previously bought diesels and now are being rewarded( $crewed) by their own party to now suffer major depreciation due to the vrt fiasco.

Which is of course strictly ironic because petrol is much cleaner than diesel, despite what the Greens and CO2 tests will tell you.

EIN

E92 wrote: »

Which is of course strictly ironic because petrol is much cleaner than diesel, despite what the Greens and CO2 tests will tell you.

i wonder what the current fuel prices are doing to sales, combined with the slowdown of construction (4x4 sales) , i would imagine that some people are finding it tough going keeping their 4x4's landcruisers, pajeros and the like ,, in fuel!

also i heard from a friend in the finance area, that loads of tradesmen who are now out of work due to the slowdown in construction are now handing back jeeps to banks as they cant afford them...

the high price of diesel may impact on some peoples decisions on what to buy..

billbond4

Bee wrote: »

Because of the knit your own sandals, $crew you mate,we are saving the planet! Oirish Green party gob$hites!:p

Just imagine sane people voted these amateurs into power and to show how dumb they were, Green party supporters that have supposedly done the enviormentally friendly thing by having previously bought diesels and now are being rewarded( $crewed) by their own party to now suffer major depreciation due to the vrt fiasco.

Yeah, the green party are a joke, they tell you to buy a "green" diesel car,
But ooh and by the way it has to be a 08 car (so the goverment can make more money on vrt)
i.e. screwing the ordinary working joe,who cant afford a 08 car, im waiting for the next election and a green party TD to call to my door, and feck them out of it, they have all great ideas, but can implent them, muppets !!

They will probably say next, only buy a white car,so it doesnt heat up as much so you dont need AirCon in your car.

E92

Even with the ridiculous tax breaks given by Governments in the continent, diesel is almost catching up with petrol prices.

It's not just in Ireland that diesel is getting dearer, far from it in fact.

Statements like those by Éamon Gilmore yesterday are despite what he would like us to believe are simply untrue.

Doesn't bother me though. People can't drive petrols properly so rather than admit that they are wrong they blame the petrol engine and incorrectly say that it's "slow" compared to diesel.

The latest direct injection turbocharged petrols are starting to make great inroads on diesel economy, as well as having plenty of torque at low revs too, so it will be interesting to see how that pans out in the future.

Unquestionably though diesel will be cheaper for the vast majority of people come July.

Unless diesel starts becoming 30% dearer than petrol then because of the lower road tax(though this advantage will reduce over time as petrol engines get more frugal with direct injection and turbo technology) and with the new VRT rules making diesels not a lot dearer, or in some cases cheaper then it makes a lot of sense to go diesel in the short term at least.

E92

billbond4 wrote: »

They will probably say next, only buy a white car,so it doesnt heat up as much so you dont need AirCon in your car.

ROFL:D!