Are potatoes really vegetables?

Blisterman

Are potatoes even really vegetables? I'd consider them more of a grain.

A: They don't count as one of your five a day fruit or veg.
B: They're mainly carbs.
C: You can make Vodka from them. You can't with any other vegetable I'm aware of.
You can make bread from them.

How is it that they are considered vegetables?

Royale with Cheese

There is no actual definition of a vegetable. It just refers to the edible part of a plant. They are vegetables.

Blisterman

Would that not make nuts, fruits, spices etc. vegetables too?

Faith

A parsnip is mainly carbs and it's a vegetable. All root veg are high in carbs. Potatoes are a vegetable. A grain is a small, hard, individual seed.

oblivious

Blisterman wrote: »

C: You can make Vodka from them. You can't with any other vegetable I'm aware of.

you can make parsnip, carrot, sugar beet, marrow and board beens wine, anything really that has a good source of starch

Mellor

Blisterman wrote: »

A: They don't count as one of your five a day fruit or veg.
B: They're mainly carbs.
C: You can make Vodka from them. You can't with any other vegetable I'm aware of.
You can make bread from them.

A:5 a day is a generalisation, you need vitamins and carbs, potatos, rice, pasta and bread are interchangable for carbs so are grouped together (other root vegs could also be used), and so are high vitamin fruit and veg. Its nothing to do with fact that its veg, its more the type of veg. Spuds being the most common source of "carby veg"

B: As are alot (if not most) root vegtables

C:You can make alcohol from plenty of veg, ones with high starch content (and hense carbs). So this is the root veg again, carrots, beets, etc
You can also make alcohol from fruit (as im sure you know)
All alcohol (beer, cider, wine etc) can be refined into a vodka type spirit

Thats the starchy nature again, could likely use other root vegs also.

oblivious

this site will interest you

http://potatoesonline.com/Nutrition.cfm


THE HEALTHFUL POTATO
Misinformation and misconceptions regarding the nutritional value of the potato abound. In fact, an average (~5.3 oz) potato with the skin contains:

* 45% of the daily value for vitamin C
* 620 mg potassium, comparable to bananas, spinach and broccoli
* trace amounts of thiamin, riboflavin, folate, magnesium, phosphorous, iron and zinc
* all for only 100 calories and no fat.

rubadub

If something has sugars it can be fermented. Enzymes turn the starches to sugar which is then fermented. People brew milk and all sorts of plants.

Contrary to popular belief most poitin was/is made from barley.

A decent definition of "vokda" is a clear odourless colourless alcohol. So it can be made from anything, including normal grape wine.

check www.homedistiller.org if you want more info on the subject.

oblivious

rubadub wrote: »

If something has sugars it can be fermented. Enzymes turn the starches to sugar which is then fermented. People brew milk and all sorts of plants.

technically yes, but brewing/wine yeast need the sugar converted from starch to maltose/simple sugars or already in a simple form like fructose/glucose in wine and honey

rubadub wrote: »

Contrary to popular belief most poitin was/is made from barley..

you need the malted barley to prove the amylase and other enzyme to brake the starch in the potatoes down, potatoes where used as they are cheap source of starch than malted barley and dont proved any flavor, people do make potatoes beer!

the process is no different to What bud or coors do using rice/maize in there beer

rubadub wrote: »

check www.homedistiller.org if you want more info on the subject.

home distiller is illegal in Ireland and dangerous, stick to brewing beer/wine/cider/meads it also prevents the government/revenue of getting funny ideas about banning the hobby. If they or you want any help i would be more than glad to oblige

rubadub

oblivious wrote: »

technically yes, but brewing/wine yeast need the sugar converted from starch to maltose/simple sugars or already in a simple form like fructose/glucose in wine and honey

Yes, thats what I was getting at when I mentioned the enzymes, i.e. it needs human intervention to turn the starch to fermentable sugars do it.

oblivious wrote: »

you need the malted barley to prove the amylase and other enzyme to brake the starch in the potatoes down, potatoes where used as they are cheap source of starch than malted barley and dont proved any flavor, people do make potatoes beer!

the process is no different to What bud or coors do using rice/maize in there beer

Budweiser use potato waste product in their "beer". Using just barley is easier , faster, cleaner and less prone to contamination. I know of very few distillers who use potatoes. If you read more about it you will see potatoes were not used as much as people think. Many think "poitin" was always made from potatoes. Many I heard of in the last century would bypass it completely and just brew with sugar water, from beet or molasses.

oblivious wrote: »

home distiller is illegal in Ireland and dangerous, stick to brewing beer/wine/cider/meads it also prevents the government/revenue of getting funny ideas about banning the hobby. If they or you want any help i would be more than glad to oblige

The dangers are really myths, especially in the age of electricity! you can see all the myths on the site I linked. Myths about the production and the product itself.
Distillation is legal in many countries, rather than banning normal home brewing I think re-legalising home distillation would be more likely. It gives people an alternative to the poor quality commercial product we have to suffer.

oblivious

rubadub wrote: »

. Many think "poitin" was always made from potatoes. Many I heard of in the last century would bypass it completely and just brew with sugar water, from beet or molasses.

Yep not surprised, they want a cheep alcohol and would use the cheapest source of carbohydrate around

rubadub wrote: »

The dangers are really myths, especially in the age of electricity! you can see all the myths on the site I linked. Myths about the production and the product itself.
Distillation is legal in many countries, rather than banning normal home brewing I think re-legalising home distillation would be more likely. It gives people an alternative to the poor quality commercial product we have to suffer.

Sorry the dangers are real and nothing to do with electricity. when you distill a fermention product you will what to take whats called take "cuts" of the running. The first cut contains high concentration of menthol, ever heard of the term "blind drunk" that where it comes from. The last cut contain a higher level of higher solvent which are also dangerous. a distiller what the one in the middle, but because many hone distilling operation use a single still as a posed the the three and some time four distillations they can end up taking to much of the first and last cuts end with some unwanted health effects.

Commercial operations don't mind re-distilling the first cut as they can separate the methanol in later sill and it also adds a lot of flavour to the finished product.


yes there are many guys who home distill in other countries and do a great job, but the problem is that hobbies such as home brewing and distilling attract two type, those interested in the process and those want cheep booze.

while home brewed beer done wrong will give you a bad head the next day, distilling can have far worse consequences. You only have to look to Russian and see what black market vodka has done, there are thousands need liver transplants due to either greed or stupidity in distilling.

rubadub

oblivious wrote: »

Yep not surprised, they want a cheep alcohol and would use the cheapest source of carbohydrate around

It may end up the cheapest due to the higher success rate, i.e. no contams.

I expect some did want a quality product. Not all homebrewers are after a cheap high, and many will pay more for the ingredients and equipment than it might cost them in a pub for a "normal" beer. Same goes for people cooking at home, and distilling at home.

oblivious wrote: »

Sorry the dangers are real and nothing to do with electricity.

I thought you may have been talking of fire hazards with gas stills.

You went on to list a lot of common misconceptions about distilling. You obviously know a bit about brewing. These are the common stories that will just serve to make sure homedistillation is never legal. Some have truth behind them, but extremely exaggerated, especially the going blind bit- it is actually a running joke on distillation websites as it is so ludicrous. Most distillers i encounter are making high quality vodka, it is made with sugar water. Sugar water will contain only trace amounts of methanol. 1 glass of cider would contain many 1000s of times the methanol of a gallon of distilled sugar water, even if no cuts are taken at all.

oblivious wrote: »

but because many hone distilling operation use a single still as a posed the the three and some time four distillations they can end up taking to much of the first and last cuts end with some unwanted health effects.

I could make similar statements and argue that people should not be allowed to cook food at home. It is a fire hazard, and if food is cooked incorrectly it is a health hazard. Many do not BBQ food enough, they are idiots, no reason to ban BBQs. People could drink contaminated home brew beer. Educate yourself people.
Many will distill once in reflux columns which can be the equivalent of 20-30 distillations, FAR purer than most commercial distilleries

oblivious wrote: »

Commercial operations don't mind re-distilling the first cut as they can separate the methanol in later sill and it also adds a lot of flavour to the finished product.

.
It also means more profit, why pour it down the drain like homedistillers do. The entire marketing of commercial products is a slick scam. If vodka is made with correct cuts it is odourless and tasteless. i.e. there is no need for the carbon filtration they brag about in ads. Many are working on the borderline legal amount of methanol they are allowed to get away with. It costs a lot of money to make proper cuts, to stabilise a column, and then toss it out. To make a vodka a little better could cost a distiller 3 times the amount of electricity, they do not mind so much, why would a commercial one though, when they can just mask the taste of this crap by filtering it and treating with chemicals.

oblivious wrote: »

yes there are many guys who home distill in other countries and do a great job, but the problem is that hobbies such as home brewing and distilling attract two type, those interested in the process and those want cheep booze.

Doesnt bother me if people want cheap booze, or cheap food, let them make it. The real issue is tax. I am not saying people should be allowed sell the spirits, just like home made beer cannot. If you want limits then limit the still volume, this is what is done in many countries. Stills are limited to say 5L. This allows illegal commercial operations to be stopped.

oblivious wrote: »

while home brewed beer done wrong will give you a bad head the next day, distilling can have far worse consequences.

There is nothing created in distilling that was not in the beer already. To get methanol posioning would be a hard job to do, you have to save many finely sections initial cuts from large washes. If this is a sugar wash it would take oceans to go blind! You are separating the crap from the homebrewed beer. If a still is limited to 5L then you only put 5L of "beer" in. What comes out has less crap in it than went in.

oblivious wrote: »

You only have to look to Russian and see what black market vodka has done, there are thousands need liver transplants due to either greed or stupidity in distilling.

Are there really? If you study any cases of illicit booze causing poisoning it is 99.999999% of the time industrial methanol or isopropanol being passed off as ethanol. These gangs are not distilling, they raid chemical warehouses and just rebottle the stuff. A recent case happened in India.

A lot of the myths are dealt with on the site

Some other topics might greatly interest homebrewers, especially on brewing to control off tastes, methanol etc.

Faith

If you want to continue debating whatever it is you're debating above, take it to the Beer/Wine/Spirit forum. You've both dragged this thread completely off-topic with boring (to me, anyway) homebrewing arguments.

Tar.Aldarion

This is aboout the best vegetable of all potatoes !

The Sweeper

Oh boo hoo for the days when I'd have locked the thread and banned the posters for discussing distillation (which is illegal in Ireland mmmkay kids)

/gets over self

I would have said a fruit was something from which a plant will specifically seed itself, whereas as vegetable is a plant in itself, only propagating when it goes to seed... If that makes any sense...

oblivious

I do apologize for going of topic, I did point out it was an illegal/dangerous process and thought it better to point out why rather than asking for the thread to be locked.

TPD

I thought a vegetable was something which grows on or below the ground, while a fruit was something which grows above ground, hence tomatoes are fruits.

Alun

TPD wrote: »

I thought a vegetable was something which grows on or below the ground, while a fruit was something which grows above ground, hence tomatoes are fruits.

By that logic, runner beans would be fruits too then

There's a bit if a definition on wikipedia ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetables