William Joyce - Lord Haw Haw

marcsignal

'William Joyce' AKA 'Lord Haw Haw' was Germany's Infamous Irish Radio Propagandist.

He was born in America but moved to Galway in Ireland when he was a young boy. In 1921 the IRA in Ireland tried to kill him, and so he fled to England, he was just 15 years old. He went to University in England and later joined Mosley's Blackshirts. When WW2 broke out he fled to Germany with his wife. They were well looked after there, and he got a job in a Radio Station. When he was captured at the end of the war in a forest in Germany, he was caught because a British Soldier called 'Major Perry' recognised his voice from the radio, and questioned Joyce about his identity. Joyce reached into his inside jacket pocket to get his fake ID, and a jumpy Major Perry accidentally shot him right in the Arse! The bullet went straight through both arse cheeks, so he had 4 bullet wounds, 1 in and 1 out in each cheek.

A tragic figure, roaring alcoholic, and wife beater. Below are links to some of his actual broadcasts.

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-NYTimesReportsExeterDamaged.mp3

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-Denmark&NorwayInvaded1.mp3

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-Denmark&NorwayInvaded2.mp3

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-Holland&BelgiumInvaded.mp3

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-TheFallOfFrance.mp3

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-BalkanIntentionsDenied.mp3

and his Final Broadcast on April 30th 1945, as Hitler committed suicide in Berlin.
Joyce was clearly Pissed Drunk making this broadcast.

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw%27sLastBroadcast.mp3

Joyce was Hanged for 'Treason to the Crown' by the British in Wansworth Prison in January 1946, because he held a British Passport. He was the last person hanged for Treason in England to date.

Fratton Fred

marcsignal wrote: »

'William Joyce' AKA 'Lord Haw Haw' was Germany's Infamous Irish Radio Propagandist.

He was born in America but moved to Galway in Ireland when he was a young boy. In 1921 the IRA in Ireland tried to kill him, and so he fled to England, he was just 15 years old. He went to University in England and later joined Mosley's Blackshirts. When WW2 broke out he fled to Germany with his wife. They were well looked after there, and he got a job in a Radio Station. When he was captured at the end of the war in a forest in Germany, he was caught because a British Soldier called 'Major Perry' recognised his voice from the radio, and questioned Joyce about his identity. Joyce reached into his inside jacket pocket to get his fake ID, and a jumpy Major Perry accidentally shot him right in the Arse! The bullet went straight through both arse cheeks, so he had 4 bullet wounds, 1 in and 1 out in each cheek.

A tragic figure, roaring alcoholic, and wife beater. Below are links to some of his actual broadcasts.

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-NYTimesReportsExeterDamaged.mp3

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-Denmark&NorwayInvaded1.mp3

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-Denmark&NorwayInvaded2.mp3

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-Holland&BelgiumInvaded.mp3

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-TheFallOfFrance.mp3

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-BalkanIntentionsDenied.mp3

and his Final Broadcast on April 30th 1945, as Hitler committed suicide in Berlin.
Joyce was clearly Pissed Drunk making this broadcast.

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw%27sLastBroadcast.mp3

Joyce was Hanged for 'Treason to the Crown' by the British in Wansworth Prison in January 1946, because he held a British Passport. He was the last person hanged for Treason in England to date.

Not so tragic, more a nasty fascist traitor.

Apparantly he did a deal with the British government. he was hung but they spared his wife, who died years later in a doorway from alcoholic poisoning.

DublinWriter

The recently published biography on him is fascist...sorry, fascinating reading.

Good work with the links OP...I was trying to find his last drunken broadcast.

He fast became a liability with the Nazi elite during the last years of the war and was increasingly seen as a joke.

Fratton Fred

did he not have a British passport but qualified for one? Theoretically he was not British but the British gave him citizenship so they could hang him I believe.

marcsignal

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Not so tragic, more a nasty fascist traitor.

I meant tragic in the sense that the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing. His political views were inconsistant. He considered himself a pro British Irishman, and lied on his passport application to obtain a British Passport, spent the war broadcasting Anti-British Propaganda, and that sealed his fate in the end. But I'm just curious to know your opinion, do you mean a nasty traitor to Ireland or England, or both ?? because it still is the subject of much contention, historically.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Apparantly he did a deal with the British government. he was hung but they spared his wife, who died years later in a doorway from alcoholic poisoning.

Yeah that's correct, his daughter from his first marriage eventually has his body exhumed from Wansworth Prison, and interred in Galway in 1976.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

did he not have a British passport but qualified for one? Theoretically he was not British but the British gave him citizenship so they could hang him I believe.

That's interesting, I wasn't aware of that ?? I didn't notice any reference to it in Mary Kenny's book about him.

Fratton Fred

marcsignal wrote: »

I meant tragic in the sense that the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing. His political views were inconsistant. He considered himself a pro British Irishman, and lied on his passport application to obtain a British Passport, spent the war broadcasting Anti-British Propaganda, and that sealed his fate in the end. But I'm just curious to know your opinion, do you mean a nasty traitor to Ireland or England, or both ?? because it still is the subject of much contention, historically.

Yeah that's correct, his daughter from his first marriage eventually has his body exhumed from Wansworth Prison, and interred in Galway in 1976.

That's interesting, I wasn't aware of that ?? I didn't notice any reference to it in Mary Kenny's book about him.

Maybe traitor is the wrong word, but he broadcast some pretty nasty stuff at times. He was a believer in Hitler's policies, that in itself would make him a nasty facsist in my book.

I'll try and find the article I read, I recall his wife was also an avid fascist. Joyce should not have been hung because his nationality may have been Irish and a British court could not try him for treason, However his wife was from Carlisle I believe and ws without a doubt guilty of treason, but Joyce king of took the bullet (or noose) for her.

marcsignal

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Maybe traitor is the wrong word, but he broadcast some pretty nasty stuff at times. He was a believer in Hitler's policies, that in itself would make him a nasty facsist in my book.

Absolutely, he was definitely Fascist, no question, in fact he was 'boxed off' and eventually thrown out of the Blackshirts for being too extreme, which was some achievement, considering. It's generally believed he developed his Anti-Semitic tendencies in the Blackshirts in England in this period. Research shows it was unlikely he could have developed these views in Ireland as a boy because there were only about 6 Jews living in the Galway region at the time, and not enough to have drawn any negative attention to Jews generally there by the local population.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

However his wife was from Carlisle I believe and was without a doubt guilty of treason, but Joyce kind of took the bullet (or noose) for her.

Yes, I can't remember her name, but I believe he met the second wife in the Blackshirts, so definitely a Fascist too.

kowloon

I believe I am related to him on my mothers side

marcsignal

kowloon wrote: »

I believe I am related to him on my mothers side

Your Joking !! :eek: Well fair play, you've got Balls for posting, ill give you that

kowloon

I'm not sure exactly where he is on the family tree and the grandfather who knew never boasted about it. I'll look it up some day. I don't think having a nutter in the family has to reflect on everyone else. I'm no crazy fool:D

Belfast

Fratton Fred wrote: »

did he not have a British passport but qualified for one? Theoretically he was not British but the British gave him citizenship so they could hang him I believe.

He had American, Irish and German citizenship. He was never a British citizen.

Belfast

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Not so tragic, more a nasty fascist traitor.

Apparantly he did a deal with the British government. he was hung but they spared his wife, who died years later in a doorway from alcoholic poisoning.

Yes he was a fascist , but a traitor ?

Who was he a traitor to ?

Belfast

marcsignal wrote: »

'William Joyce' AKA 'Lord Haw Haw' was Germany's Infamous Irish Radio Propagandist.

He was born in America but moved to Galway in Ireland when he was a young boy. In 1921 the IRA in Ireland tried to kill him, and so he fled to England, he was just 15 years old. He went to University in England and later joined Mosley's Blackshirts. When WW2 broke out he fled to Germany with his wife. They were well looked after there, and he got a job in a Radio Station. When he was captured at the end of the war in a forest in Germany, he was caught because a British Soldier called 'Major Perry' recognised his voice from the radio, and questioned Joyce about his identity. Joyce reached into his inside jacket pocket to get his fake ID, and a jumpy Major Perry accidentally shot him right in the Arse! The bullet went straight through both arse cheeks, so he had 4 bullet wounds, 1 in and 1 out in each cheek.

A tragic figure, roaring alcoholic, and wife beater. Below are links to some of his actual broadcasts.

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-NYTimesReportsExeterDamaged.mp3

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-Denmark&NorwayInvaded1.mp3

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-Denmark&NorwayInvaded2.mp3

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-Holland&BelgiumInvaded.mp3

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-TheFallOfFrance.mp3

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw-BalkanIntentionsDenied.mp3

and his Final Broadcast on April 30th 1945, as Hitler committed suicide in Berlin.
Joyce was clearly Pissed Drunk making this broadcast.

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIAudio/Germany/HawHaw%27sLastBroadcast.mp3

Joyce was Hanged for 'Treason to the Crown' by the British in Wansworth Prison in January 1946, because he held a British Passport. He was the last person hanged for Treason in England to date.

The real reason he was Hanged was he got up Churchill's nose.

marcsignal

Belfast wrote: »

The real reason he was Hanged was he got up Churchill's nose.

I have to agree, I've always questioned, whether it was right to hang him, but I can understand why he got up Churchill's nose. He made his job harder. He was sapping British morale badly in 1940, and it was only when England fought off the Germans, in the Battle of Britain, and after the Blitz (Nov1940 - May1941ish) that people started to see "Haw Haw" more as a joke figure.

During the Blitz Joyce created havoc with the British Public's nerves. Telling people their town was going to be bombed, and there was little or nothing the RAF could do about it at night. Or one of his favourites was scaremongering about secret weapons, with some truth mind, because the Germans deliberately used Time Delay Fuses in bombs during the Blitz. During the first use of the infamous 'Butterfly Bombs' (not to be confused with 'buzzbomb') Joyce had a field day, scaring the sh1te out of people.

He spent the whole war slagging Churchill off in a really heavy way. I think you can even hear examples in some of the posted links. I don't just mean 'slagging' in a political context, he often abused Churchill personally about his American roots and his sympathy for the Jews. This kind of thing had never been heard on the radio before. From what I understand the War Office were very concerned about the amount of people listening.

I'm sure I read in Mary Kenny's book 'Germany Calling' that he had a British Passport, and according to wiki :

He was acquitted of the first and second charges. However, the Attorney General, Sir Hartley Shawcross, successfully argued that Joyce's possession of a British passport, even though he had mis-stated his nationality to get it, entitled him (until it expired) to British diplomatic protection in Germany and therefore he owed allegiance to the King at the time he commenced working for the Germans. It was on this technicality that Joyce was convicted of the third charge and sentenced to death on 19 September 1945. His conviction was upheld by the Court of Appeal on 1 November, and by the House of Lords (on a 4-1 vote) on 13 December.

DublinWriter

Belfast wrote: »

He had American, Irish and German citizenship. He was never a British citizen.

Even considering there's no such thing as 'British Citizen', he was neither.

He was tried, convicted and hung for acts of Treason to the British Crown. I think it's in his biography that he applied for, and got, a British passport during his brief stay in England after leaving Ireland.

Fratton Fred

DublinWriter wrote: »

Even considering there's no such thing as 'British Citizen', he was neither.

He was tried, convicted and hung for acts of Treason to the British Crown. I think it's in his biography that he applied for, and got, a British passport during his brief stay in England after leaving Ireland.

according to my passport there is

I found the article. Lets face it, for what he did, at the time, he was always going to get hung

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/98/a4362798.shtml

Fratton Fred

Belfast wrote: »

Yes he was a fascist , but a traitor ?

Who was he a traitor to ?

Belfast wrote: »

The real reason he was Hanged was he got up Churchill's nose.

splitting hairs? He had a British Passport and lived and worked in London for a number of years.

the reason he was hanged was because he was directing porpaganda at the British Public. Most people saw him as a joke, especially when he announced the sinking of a RN ship that was actually a training base in Brighton:D

He was a fascist, he took great delight in talking about allied losses and he was advocating Britian gave in and signed a treaty with Germany. He knew what the Nazis were up to and was a willing supporter. I'm not sure too many people will be shedding tears over his death.

Belfast

Fratton Fred wrote: »

splitting hairs? He had a British Passport and lived and worked in London for a number of years.

the reason he was hanged was because he was directing porpaganda at the British Public. Most people saw him as a joke, especially when he announced the sinking of a RN ship that was actually a training base in Brighton:D

He was a fascist, he took great delight in talking about allied losses and he was advocating Britian gave in and signed a treaty with Germany. He knew what the Nazis were up to and was a willing supporter. I'm not sure too many people will be shedding tears over his death.

He was not British. He got a British passport by fraud. He wanted to be British, but that did not make him British.

Many British worked for the Germans including in the Waffen SS and did not Hang.

Belfast

Fratton Fred wrote: »

according to my passport there is [

Fred is right the British passport does say citizen.

it depends on how you define citizen.

One definition of a citizen is a member of society who has rights.

Britain does not have a system of positive rights as advocated in the "rights of man by Thomas Paine" .

Britain has a system of privileges as advocated by the Irish man Edmund Burke.

privileges are granted by the crown.
rights come from a written constitution.

the link below should clear up the subject

British subject or British citizen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_subject

the link below gives some good information on the difference between a Citizen and a Subject

A Citizen or a Subject
http://anarchangel.blogspot.com/2005/03/citizen-or-subject_14.html

Fratton Fred

Belfast wrote: »

He was not British. He got a British passport by fraud. He wanted to be British, but that did not make him British.

Many British worked for the Germans including in the Waffen SS and did not Hang.

Did you read the link? that is pretty much the point made in the article.

Belfast

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Did you read the link? that is pretty much the point made in the article.

Yes

Grizzly 45

Belfast wrote: »

He had American, Irish and German citizenship. He was never a British citizen.

He was born in the USA on 24/4/1906 at1377 Herkimer St Brooklyn ,new York to Micheal and Gertrude Joyce,native of Mayo,and naturalised US citizen.By and large that makes him a Yank.They returned to Ireland in 1909.Moved from Ballinrobe to Salthill in 1913.Joyce claimed he worked as an informer to the Auxies,due to his father losing property to the IRA,seeing a few atroticies in the Galway area by both IRA and RIC and his father being a pro Monarch.Family moved then to Lancashire in1921.

The reason Joyce was hung was because,in the time he left Britan to go to Germany in the days before war was declared,was he fraudently obtained a British passport.The prosecution arguement was despite having a false passport,Joyce could have availed of protection of the British Crown if he needed it,and therefore owed a duty of loyalty to the British Crown.Joyces lawyer argued that Joyce could only leave Britan on a fraudlent passport and had no intention of availing of Crown protection,and that an alien only had the duty of loyalty ot the Crown on British teritory.However the Jury found in favour of the prosecution and found Joyce guilty.The other charges against Joyce of broadcasting throught the war and becoming a german citizen were dropped on the third day of the trial.
All in all the evidence of Treason was shakey at best,and would have been demolished in more peaceful times.however in the post war years blood was still high and Joyce had been a PITA to the English public over the war years and they wanted blood in any shape or form.

[Taken and abridged from Renegades,Hitlers Englishmen by Adrian Weale by Warner Books.]

Tenger

Belfast wrote: »

He had American, Irish and German citizenship. He was never a British citizen.

Yes. Watched History channel about him the other day. He applied for sometimes and claimed to have been elligible for British citizenship (I think due to place of birth) After the war the British used this as the reason he could be tried for Treason to the Crown.


Incidently I have a photocopy of his Iron Cross 1st Class certificate. It is signed upside down by Hitler,obviously it was just in a pile of similar documents for Adolf to sign in a rush. I have a friend who used to work in the UK Home Office. His work over the last 3-4 years involved releasing files from WWII,he has told me some of the things he has seen in those files. But he doesn't tell me everything,confidentiality clause and all that.

marcsignal

Just came across this today

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1209142/Microphone-used-Lord-Haw-Haw-broadcast-Nazi-propaganda-UK-goes-sale.html

McArmalite

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Not so tragic, more a nasty fascist traitor.

Apparantly he did a deal with the British government. he was hung but they spared his wife, who died years later in a doorway from alcoholic poisoning.

Appearently when they hung him, the sudden massive jerk burst the scar on his face open and blood spewed from it. Ouch :eek:

McArmalite

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

He was born in the USA on 24/4/1906 at1377 Herkimer St Brooklyn ,new York to Micheal and Gertrude Joyce,native of Mayo,and naturalised US citizen.By and large that makes him a Yank.They returned to Ireland in 1909.Moved from Ballinrobe to Salthill in 1913.Joyce claimed he worked as an informer to the Auxies,due to his father losing property to the IRA,seeing a few atroticies in the Galway area by both IRA and RIC and his father being a pro Monarch.Family moved then to Lancashire in1921.

The reason Joyce was hung was because,in the time he left Britan to go to Germany in the days before war was declared,was he fraudently obtained a British passport.The prosecution arguement was despite having a false passport,Joyce could have availed of protection of the British Crown if he needed it,and therefore owed a duty of loyalty to the British Crown.Joyces lawyer argued that Joyce could only leave Britan on a fraudlent passport and had no intention of availing of Crown protection,and that an alien only had the duty of loyalty ot the Crown on British teritory.However the Jury found in favour of the prosecution and found Joyce guilty.The other charges against Joyce of broadcasting throught the war and becoming a german citizen were dropped on the third day of the trial.
All in all the evidence of Treason was shakey at best,and would have been demolished in more peaceful times.however in the post war years blood was still high and Joyce had been a PITA to the English public over the war years and they wanted blood in any shape or form.

[Taken and abridged from Renegades,Hitlers Englishmen by Adrian Weale by Warner Books.]

From a Google I've picked up some interesting stuff - " Most of William Joyce’s relations are too ashamed of him even to speak about the connection. His English relatives, having suffered verbal abuse and even loss of employment because of William, are ashamed that he was hanged as a pro-Nazi traitor. His Irish family associates are ashamed that he had been so pro-British as a young boy that he aided and abetted the notorious Black and Tans in Galway in the 1920s, which, among a certain generation of Irish people, was almost worse than going over to Hitler. (A Galway historian remembers his Sinn Féin aunt calling Willie Joyce, loathesomely, “a scut” when he was running around with the Crown forces as a lad, but considerably softening towards him, and being amused by him, when she heard him verbally bashing the Brits from wartime Berlin.) "

It is actually amusing that he had been pro british in Ireland and anti British in Berlin

Here some more http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=87350

CDfm

Joyce fraudulently obtained a British Passport and was hanged really on a technicality. He was not really a very nice guy and was an associate of Mosleys Fascists in the UK between the wars. I don't think he was popular in Galway either when growing up.

Thats not to say he was treated differently to how the British treated their own. Another notable case at the time was John Amery who was the son of Leo Amery and brother of Julian Amery who both served as government ministers in Conservative Governments. He pleaded guilty to treason organising the British Freikorps and there was a lot of evidence of mental illness.

Joyce was not the original Lord Haw Haw - it was another guy Norman Baillie-Stewart. PG Wodehouse and others also broadcast and he was cleared of treachery and this has since attracted controversy.

CDfm

A character who I found more interesting from an Irish point of view was Francis Stuart an Irish writer and pro-Nazi. He sued and settled with the Irish Times over an Article by Kevin Myers accusing him of being a Nazi.

He was married to Maude Gonnes daughter and that made him Sean McBrides brother-in-law. He also broadcast on German radio.

Frank Ryan also was there. So you had Anti-British and Pro-British in Berlin at that time.

There was controversy too deveral years back when Maire Mac an tSaoi (Mrs Conor Cruise O'Brien to you and me)resigned from Aosdana after he was elected as a fellow.

Fuinseog

the Indo recently refered to him as the thirds reich number one propagandist, but he was small fry. if he had kept his head low and his mouth shut he would still be alive.

Fuinseog

that wan from the indo, marý kenny has a biography (very average) on him.

he was awarded the Kriegsdienstkreuz second class.

CDfm

He had a pre war association with Sir Oswald Mosley the UK politician and fascist leader and dad of the formala one dude who was caught with the prosies and uniforms a few months back. So its not like he hadnt been involved to some extent in "British" politics as he had been an activist in Mosleys British Union of Fascists/Blackshirts and had been its deputy leader in the 1930s.

marcsignal

I came across this today

http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/hawhaw/8905.shtml

The BEEB are doing a web feature on Lord Haw Haw at the monent.
There's some broadcasts there I never heard before too !

enjoy

.