Most fatal crashes on normal roads - study

heathersonline

Further to the reports in newspapers yesterday, just wondering if there are any stats available showing Garda presence on single carriageway roads v's motorway / duel carriageways?

The majority of speedchecks and Garda presence I have personally come accross are on motorways, which seems strange given that 95% of accidents occur on single lane roads


http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0520/roadsafety.html?rss

CLADA

5% of accidents occur on motorways.

Motorways are obviously going to be safer but would it be fair to say the statistic is due to the fact that motorways make up a small fraction of the total roadway in Ireland.

Fyr.Fytr

The guards have to be safe too.

They cant stand on a country road with bad bends or else theyll get a belt of a car.

Hence why m-ways now have the little lay-by's for them to park up on.

But it would be nice to see speed checks on smaller roads too, maybe thats also a question of guards not having the rescources, but thats for another topic

Prenderb

Motorways are safer because there's no directional conflicts. No T-junctions, and drivers in the opposite direction are separated by a median and crash barrier (typically). They also have fantastic forward visibility of other drivers, no animals/pedestrians to jump out of the hedge at you, no slow vehicles like tractors, no muck on the roads and so on.

I think that if you look at the accidents per kilometre of a motorway versus a rural regional road you'll see a dramatic difference, because of the factors above - not because of the small percentage of motorway in the country compared to regional/local roads.

That said, there may be a higher percentage of "serious" accidents on them because of the speed factor, i.e. when an accident happens its more likely to be more serious. But they are the safest of our roads.

Sierra Oscar

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

The guards have to be safe too.

They cant stand on a country road with bad bends or else theyll get a belt of a car.

At the same time, this is why speeding leads to more road accidents on normal roads. They are very often dangerous and bendy.

It really does annoy me when I see joyriders speeding along country roads and then realising that there are very rarely any Garda checkpoints on these roads. Also, there does seem to be an element of "filling a quota" when it comes to giving out penalty points if Im not mistaken. Naturally, you are going to end up catching the most speeders and the like on the roads that have the most traffic. However, you still have a very valid point.:)

Fyr.Fytr

I know that sierra oscar, but what I'm saying is its not safe for a guard to be poking out of a bush on some back road so he wont be sent out there to do it

eroo

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

I know that sierra oscar, but what I'm saying is its not safe for a guard to be poking out of a bush on some back road so he wont be sent out there to do it

+1

Although he wasn't on traffic duty,there was the case last year of a Garda being killed outside Foynes,Co.Limerick when are a car knocked him and a voluntary Firefighter down.Point is it was early morning on a country road while they were attending an accident.If the driver couldn't stop in time at the scene of an accident,even though there were ambulance,fire appliances and Garda vehicles present..what makes anyone think he/she could stop in time for a Garda on a back road who steps out to stop said driver??

Sam Kade

What about unmarked cars fitted with a camera? Just because it isn't safe for them to hide in a bush doesn't mean they can't catch them.

Fyr.Fytr

Eroo, the driver of the vehicle was drunk, but see what your saying, oh and its retained firefighter as theyre paid for their services.

Sorry to nit pick but agree with you on that one

Sam thats well and good, but think its down to rescources

eroo

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Eroo, the driver of the vehicle was drunk, but see what your saying, oh and its retained firefighter as theyre paid for their services.

Sorry to nit pick but agree with you on that one

Sam thats well and good, but think its down to rescources

Nit picking??I would expect no less Fyr.Fytr!!:D

I think speed cameras are the safest way forward.It could also free up Gardai for other duties and take out the added hassle of sending out fines via non public post.

Sam Kade

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Sam thats well and good, but think its down to rescources

Are you saying that they can't afford unmarked cars? I saw unmarked cars around years ago eg. toyota starlets with blue flashing lights built into the grill. What do they cost €300 they don't even need a camera in them.

Eru

Sam Kade wrote: »

What about unmarked cars fitted with a camera? Just because it isn't safe for them to hide in a bush doesn't mean they can't catch them.

that would take a car and 2 Gardai away. remember a lot of areas, especially rural areas only have 1 patrol car available on a night shift.

Im not in traffic so I cant say what initiatives or thought goes into the management side of things but I know that your not pushed for certain numbers or fine amount, etc.

Your pushed to do your job and thats it but health and safety has to plpay some part even in a traditionally dangerous job. Pros and cons need to be weighed up and putting a Garda or a car on a winding road at night, possible in bad weather is a bad idea. especially if you consider Gardai have a duty of care to all citizens even those breaking the law. If you crash while fleeing the Gardai or as a result of swerving because of Gardai your passengers can sue the Gardai for failing to protect them from you and contributing to their injuries. Insane but true!

There was a case a few years ago involving a motorbike and the passenger being paralysed (I think, or possible just badly injured)

Fyr.Fytr

Thats the point i was getting at karl, fair play to you

Yea vaguely remember something along those lines about the bike karl.

Sam Kade

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

that would take a car and 2 Gardai away. remember a lot of areas, especially rural areas only have 1 patrol car available on a night shift.

Im not in traffic so I cant say what initiatives or thought goes into the management side of things but I know that your not pushed for certain numbers or fine amount, etc.

Your pushed to do your job and thats it but health and safety has to plpay some part even in a traditionally dangerous job. Pros and cons need to be weighed up and putting a Garda or a car on a winding road at night, possible in bad weather is a bad idea. especially if you consider Gardai have a duty of care to all citizens even those breaking the law. If you crash while fleeing the Gardai or as a result of swerving because of Gardai your passengers can sue the Gardai for failing to protect them from you and contributing to their injuries. Insane but true!

There was a case a few years ago involving a motorbike and the passenger being paralysed (I think, or possible just badly injured)

So what else can they do let people keep getting killed on these roads. These accidents are also a very big cost to the state. If these roads aren't policed they will continue to speed.

Fyr.Fytr

Sam Kade wrote: »

Are you saying that they can't afford unmarked cars? I saw unmarked cars around years ago eg. toyota starlets with blue flashing lights built into the grill. What do they cost €300 they don't even need a camera in them.

Garda galanza's ha ha ha

Sure it wasnt the local wanna be schumacher who just got a halfords giftcard for his 18th?

Boy racer mobiles used by the guards he he, be great for undercover work though

remmurts

I'm going back to the early 90's...

There were 2 or 3 unmarked Maximas in Traffic, all fitted out with (at that time) the latest and greatest VASCAR traffic/camera systems. One stayed in Dublin, another did the rounds of the country divisions...a demonstrator of sorts.

Eventually a whole fleet of unmarked Toyota Camrys (various different colours) was put into service with various different traffic/camera systems. The plan was to have one in every Division.

Don't know that every Div Traffic Unit did actually ever get one.

A number of different vehicles were tested. They did actually listen to input from the various interested parties...Traffic Corps drivers, Transport W/shops mechanics, Telecommunications Section techs, etc, to see which best suited everyone's needs. IIRC, among those tested were BMW, Subaru, Nissan Maxima and the Camry.

Rumour had it that the unmarked Traffic Camry in the Laois/Offaly Division was so effective, and seen as so great a menance to the erratic driving of the locals, that a particularly beligerent farmer, perhaps after several high fines, ran it of the road with some sort of tractor and permamently put it out of commission !!!

eroo

Road deaths cannot be tackled by the Gardai,or the Government or the RSA!!Ya know why?

Because they aren't the ones doing 110km/h in a 60km/h zone..
They aren't the ones driving home after 'just a few' pints..
They aren't the ones driving recklessly while on the phone..*
They aren't the ones breaking red lights..
They aren't the ones driving around stoned off their faces..

It is EVERYBODY's responsibility to reduce deaths.How can that be??Well EVERYONE can reduce their speed,stop drink-driving,put down the phone,stop at the amber light and don't drive if you are foolish enough to be taking drugs..

The Gardai can only do so much,they cannot be everywhere.Joint GS/Govt/RSA initiatives will only be succesful if people listen.It is up to the individual driver to take responsibility for his/her driving.If everyone did that,road deaths would be dramatically reduced..

*Yes Gardai are exempt from the ban on driving while on the phone,but I have yet to see them driving like cowboys while on the phone!

Fyr.Fytr

Couldnt agree more eroo

Eru

eroo wrote: »

Road deaths cannot be tackled by the Gardai,or the Government or the RSA!!Ya know why?

Because they aren't the ones doing 110km/h in a 60km/h zone..
They aren't the ones driving home after 'just a few' pints..
They aren't the ones driving recklessly while on the phone..*
They aren't the ones breaking red lights..
They aren't the ones driving around stoned off their faces..

It is EVERYBODY's responsibility to reduce deaths.How can that be??Well EVERYONE can reduce their speed,stop drink-driving,put down the phone,stop at the amber light and don't drive if you are foolish enough to be taking drugs..

The Gardai can only do so much,they cannot be everywhere.Joint GS/Govt/RSA initiatives will only be succesful if people listen.It is up to the individual driver to take responsibility for his/her driving.If everyone did that,road deaths would be dramatically reduced..

*Yes Gardai are exempt from the ban on driving while on the phone,but I have yet to see them driving like cowboys while on the phone!

Somebody give this man a lollipop and a gold star!

Fyr.Fytr

I want a lollypop

CLADA

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

I want a lollypop

OK, tell us how great we are and i'll PM you one.:D

Fyr.Fytr

My mammy told me not to tell lies

Anywho back on topic me thinks

superhooper

Resources seem to the biggest issue. I see on Sky 1 the UK cops using those in car cameras and they seem effective. Guess you just need extra patrols and new technology. Static cameras are fine in certain areas but you can't have them down every boreen in the place.
Proper signage and road markings on country roads wouldn't go astray either. On that matter I can't ever understand how on wet days and especially nights our road markings are practically invisible. This in the wettest country in the world!! Possibly some penny pinching on behalf of our local authorities me thinks:mad:.

eroo

superhooper,I couldn't agree more!The signage in this country is desperate.However I wouldn't lay the blame on road signs.You have to be driving at a reasonable speed to read them..and not being wasted also helps!Point is,even if we had decent signage,people would still be breaking road traffic laws!

Sam Kade

eroo wrote: »

Road deaths cannot be tackled by the Gardai,or the Government or the RSA!!Ya know why?

Because they aren't the ones doing 110km/h in a 60km/h zone..
They aren't the ones driving home after 'just a few' pints..
They aren't the ones driving recklessly while on the phone..*
They aren't the ones breaking red lights..
They aren't the ones driving around stoned off their faces..

It is EVERYBODY's responsibility to reduce deaths.How can that be??Well EVERYONE can reduce their speed,stop drink-driving,put down the phone,stop at the amber light and don't drive if you are foolish enough to be taking drugs..

The Gardai can only do so much,they cannot be everywhere.Joint GS/Govt/RSA initiatives will only be succesful if people listen.It is up to the individual driver to take responsibility for his/her driving.If everyone did that,road deaths would be dramatically reduced..

*Yes Gardai are exempt from the ban on driving while on the phone,but I have yet to see them driving like cowboys while on the phone!

If criminals didn't commit crimes, if drug dealers didn't sell drugs, if drugs users didn't use drugs, if nobody drank alcohol, if people drove without crashing then we wouldn't need gardai. Unfortunately we don't have a prefect world and people are getting killed on these roads. These accidents cost the state money when they happed the gardai have to come out. So why not use the money to prevent these accidents. As for saying gardai are perfect and don't do anything wrong is nonsense. I know of gardai that were the cause of car accidents, drinking and driving and dangerous driving.

eroo

Sam Kade wrote: »

If criminals didn't commit crimes, if drug dealers didn't sell drugs, if drugs users didn't use drugs, if nobody drank alcohol, if people drove without crashing then we wouldn't need gardai. Unfortunately we don't have a prefect world and people are getting killed on these roads. These accidents cost the state money when they happed the gardai have to come out. So why not use the money to prevent these accidents. As for saying gardai are perfect and don't do anything wrong is nonsense. I know of gardai that were the cause of car accidents, drinking and driving and dangerous driving.

It is an impossible task that is given to every police force.I say impossible because there is no way Gardai can prevent the vast majority of road deaths alone.As I said,Gardai can't be down every back road at 3am on a Saturday when someone is doing 160km/h.Just like they can't stop every crime.As you stated,we do not live in a perfect world.

However,Gardai can prevent road deaths through education.Send in Gardai to talk to kids in 1st year,2nd year,3rd year,4th year,5th year and 6th year.Be blunt and to the point.Let them know what can happen to you if you break the road laws i.e.death or serious injury to you or others.Relate experiences about responding to RTA's.Educating young people is the ONLY way to cut road deaths.After all,we will be the next generation of drivers.Why not instill the morals in this and future generations that will prevent them drink/drug-driving,speeding,driving dangerously?Educate them so that they know from day one what not to do behind a wheel??

Lobster

I find that the gardai always use the same places to do speed checks, where I live anyway and people just slow down at them spots. Its too easy for young people to buy an old high powered car anyway. Whats the sense in a young person still at school having a twincam or impreza? Will education really stop them putting their foot down in those cars that are built to perform?

eroo

Lobster wrote: »

Will education really stop them putting their foot down in those cars that are built to perform?

I believe so.Get people in who have been in accidents or relatives of those who have died to talk about their experiences.Show them what happens when you put the foot down.

Odysseus

To play devils advocate as there is alot of talk about the Gardai and their role in policing the speed limits. I ask the question what about the Gardai themselves?

I do alot of travelling on the roads all on a motor bike. I find that most Garda cars and bikes sail past me when I'm at the legal limit.

Yes they may be on a call and not using their lights etc, however, it happens so much that I suspect this is not the case.

Last example was yesterday morning stopped at a set of lights at on a dual carriageway was a Guard on a bike. As I stopped he looked at my bike, started to rev his, lights went green and guess what: he belted off down the road. I notice this happens alot with Guards on bikes when stopped at lights, the reving was unusual though.

Not to say that all Guards are speeding when they are not responding to calls, and I don't want to appear as a Gardai basher, but it appears to me that a lot of Gardai are speeding too. Has anyone any thought on this?

TheNog

The majority of times we are on calls and are trying to provide a service with good response times but with inadequate resources especially in the country stations with large districts to cover this is proving a sometimes difficult thing to do.

However I do find that colleagues I work with do drive at times too fast when on normal patrol and no calls to go to and every one of them have not done the driving course. Those who have done the course are slower and better drivers when high speed is required.

TheNog

eroo wrote: »

I believe so.Get people in who have been in accidents or relatives of those who have died to talk about their experiences.Show them what happens when you put the foot down.

The Traffic Corps lads in Dublin Castle do a brilliant presentation showing collision scenes and interviews with injured parties and those who have lost loved ones. They travel nationwide to schools and businesses which I think should be implemented in every division and given by members within that division.

Fyr.Fytr

I second that, came into my school.

Very informative, needless to say i took it handy coming home from school that day

One story struck me the most was the one he told us about a rta he delt with where a young girl died. How her parents didnt restrain her etc

It made me think, why do stupid things like that and put the grief on someone elses door step. No doubt everytime he closes his eyes he pictures that little girl. And for what?

Fatal rta's are not a pretty sight, been there done that.

I think the RSA ad that struck me the most was the one about making others make decisions, like the medics deciding to cease cpr, guards on how to break the news etc.


So if you want to go out and be an idiot driver, think of the position your putting others in. Be it the emergency services at scene or your family placing you into a grave, YOUR CHOICE NOT THEIRS!

Don't make others suffer for your decisions is what im trying to say here i think

albertw

superhooper wrote: »

Resources seem to the biggest issue. I see on Sky 1 the UK cops using those in car cameras and they seem effective. Guess you just need extra patrols and new technology. Static cameras are fine in certain areas but you can't have them down every boreen in the place.
Proper signage and road markings on country roads wouldn't go astray either. On that matter I can't ever understand how on wet days and especially nights our road markings are practically invisible. This in the wettest country in the world!! Possibly some penny pinching on behalf of our local authorities me thinks:mad:.

All good points. I was pulled over once in the US for speeding. Squad car was driving the other way and had an in car system that was able to factor in his speed and calculate mine. This was just a normal patrol car based at a station in a small enough town, not highway patrol. If Garda cars here could be fitted with such a system it would reduce the risk of standing on a bend in some boreen. In car systems would leave no excuse for not having better coverage on roads where dangerous speeding occurs rather than catching someone doing 55 coming into a town. It also would mean that every existing patrol car fitted with the technology would effectively be able to check for speeding as they drive about on their regular duty and reduce the time spent standing at a roadside.

I'd much rather have the traffic corps equipped with this technology driving about on the motorways and catching the people doing 160+ than the speed cameras causing everyone to break suddenly! I think it would be much more effective at reducing dangerous driving too.

yayamark

TheNog wrote: »

The Traffic Corps lads in Dublin Castle do a brilliant presentation showing collision scenes and interviews with injured parties and those who have lost loved ones. They travel nationwide to schools and businesses which I think should be implemented in every division and given by members within that division.

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

I second that, came into my school.

Very informative, needless to say i took it handy coming home from school that day

One story struck me the most was the one he told us about a rta he delt with where a young girl died. How her parents didnt restrain her etc

True.He told us that story too, was nearly in tears. One of the saddest stories i've ever heard. Its had a profound effect on his life not a mind the childs parents life.

EVERYONE should hear it.