Cowan: Profanity and Threats

ferdi

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0521/dail.html

Fine Gael has criticised the Taoiseach for using unparliamentary language towards the Opposition in a conversation captured on the Dáil microphones this morning.

However RTÉ News understands Brian Cowen was not referring to Fine Gael.

The party had just been involved in angry exchanges over health spending.

After Leaders' Questions, Brian Cowen was heard using profanity in a conversation with Tánaiste and Enterprise Minister Mary Coughlan.

A Government spokesman confirmed the microphones had picked up what he said was 'a private exchange that was not on the Dáil record.'

Fine Gael's Dan Neville cited the remarks in a statement, claiming Mr Cowen had displayed his intolerance for the difficult questions which his party had been putting to him on health spending.

He claimed the Taoiseach had lost it and his use of the f-word referred to Fine Gael.

But after the angry exchanges over health Mr Cowen had been questioned by Labour's Eamon Gilmore on price increases and what he said had been the failure of the National Consumer Agency and other bodies to act.

RTÉ News understands that what the Taoiseach said to Ms Coughlan was: 'We need to get a handle on this, will you ring those f***ers.'

That was a reference to the relevant officials rather than the opposition. The incident is now closed, but may well pass into Leinster House folklore.

Cowen threatens Dail hecklers


At one point in the exchanges over health, Mr Cowen told the Fine Gael spokesman on Health, Dr James Reilly, that if the heckling continued, he could arrange that Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny would not be heard in the chamber again.

The row erupted after Mr Kenny questioned the Taoiseach about health expenditure.

A charge that Fine Gael had not backed a single initiative aimed at improving health services drew instant howls from Mr Kenny's front bench.

Dr Reilly was the most vocal, bellowing across the chamber that Mr Cowen was playing the man not the ball.

Amid continued noisy exchanges, the Taoiseach warned that he could organise similar behaviour from his own benches, before bluntly threatening Dr Reilly.

Mr Kenny protested, the Ceann Comhairle intervened and calm was restored.

Bertie Ahern frequently had to endure barracking from the Opposition during Leaders' Questions, sometimes complaining to the Ceann Comhairle.

But Mr Cowen signalled today he would not be taking it from Fine Gael and Labour, even if he has left himself open to a charge of conduct unbecoming of a Government leader.

lol.

Dave!

Legend!

RuailleBuaille

I don't see how it makes him a legend at all. This is our taoiseach, head of our democratically run government and his response to awkward questions is to threaten the opposition. I'm very surprised I must say, I'dve thought Cowen would be more than able for heckling, that he would respond with some devastating witticism and move on. This does not bode well...

oscarBravo

I have to say, I do find the constant barracking in the Dáil tedious. In any other context, shouting down the person who's currently speaking would be considered the height of rudeness and wouldn't be tolerated.

RuailleBuaille

oscarBravo wrote: »

I have to say, I do find the constant barracking in the Dáil tedious. In any other context, shouting down the person who's currently speaking would be considered the height of rudeness and wouldn't be tolerated.

And telling them you'll 'arrange it so they won't be heard' isn't?
In this case, I don't think it was 'barracking' as such, it was more a reaction to the fallacy stated that FG have not backed ONE health initiative.
I'm not pro FF or FG but IMHO it is beneath the leader of our country to respond in such a puerile manner.
Any argument that descends into threats is a lost argument.
Mo dha phingin.

oscarBravo

RuailleBuaille wrote: »

And telling them you'll 'arrange it so they won't be heard' isn't?

That wasn't exactly a constructive contribution either. Childishness isn't confined to any side of the house.

In this case, I don't think it was 'barracking' as such, it was more a reaction to the fallacy stated that FG have not backed ONE health initiative.

If the "reaction" took the form of trying to shout down whomever had the floor at the time, then it was inappropriate.

I'm aware that it has become de facto accepted behaviour, but it's pathetic that a parliamentary chamber is the only place of business where shouting at someone while they're talking doesn't seem to be frowned upon.

I'm not pro FF or FG but IMHO it is beneath the leader of our country to respond in such a puerile manner.

No disagreement here.

Any argument that descends into threats is a lost argument.

Debates are not supposed to be arguments - certainly not in any other arena.

humberklog

FG are re-tracing the road taken by Cameron against Brown. As soon as Brown's immediate bounce started to wane the Tories barracked Brown senseless (backing down from election started ball rolling). Blair, like Ahern, was very hard to trap in debate within the house. I don't think FG will get the same results against Cowen. I sense Cowen's thrown this one back in his own style but if he's clever (which he is) he'll allow FG to do damage to themselves by coming across as distructive hecklers.

rollie

HAH RTE wouldnt even say fu$$er's (and neither can i) but i really wanted them to say it on the nine o' clock.

with regards to the threats and the like...im not a big fan of him but hes definately setting a precident for the rest of the term, heckeling doesnt help anyone

ninty9er

Frankly, he said what he meant about "them fuckers (Consumer Affairs)".

What's the odds YFG president will have a hissyfit letter about it in some national newspaper tomorrow. Even worse it'll get published:rolleyes:

guinnessdrinker

Cowen's behaviour today was far from statesman like. I don't expect our leader of government to be perfect in every way but at least behave with a bit of dignity.

If he can't answer a question in the dail why does he have to attack the opposition, this is childish. To respond to oppossition heckler's by saying he would ensure that they would not be heard is just stupid. If he just rose above this he would have came out much better, can he not see this?

Sherifu

It's his honest opinion of some officials. There's nothing wrong with it. Politics needs more of it if anything.

RuailleBuaille

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

Cowen's behaviour today was far from statesman like. I don't expect our leader of government to be perfect in every way but at least behave with a bit of dignity.

If he can't answer a question in the dail why does he have to attack the opposition, this is childish. To respond to oppossition heckler's by saying he would ensure that they would not be heard is just stupid. If he just rose above this he would have came out much better, can he not see this?

+1 from me.

Lol at the righteous indignation here.
(1) Cowen wasn't talking about Kenny or the opposition-he was using every day slang to describe a group not for the microphone but overheard.
(2) Kenny,you or I or anybody doesn't use that word every day sometimes several times a day..of course we do.
I'll bet it's used in the cabinet room and in the shadow cabinet often enough.

What a kafuffle over nothing and of course a silly mis hearing by Kenny.

is_that_so

Not bothered about the F word, not something to get upset about. Hardly any of us is without sin on this.
However much there's an element of childishness to it all , there is also a worry, in that if this is how he reacts to what was effectively a very local issue, albeit a very emotive one. what will he threaten when they go after him about something that affects all of us. That said there should be no surprise. His verbals with Richard Bruton on radio during the general election suggests that he is inclined to do this. He can be dismissive and intolerant especially if he is not "winning" the argument.

mike65

I think his use of language in the house is a reflection of the man and his less than urbane ways. Whether you regard that as plain speaking or ignorant gom is up to you.

I think BIFFO could be found wanting when the heat gets turned up.

Mike.

Red Alert

At least Michael McDowell knew how to respond in a robust and (at times) funny manner without resorting to bad language. He has some nerve for tackling people attacking Bertie in a personal manner when he goes for the man not the ball as well.

CtrlSource

ferdi wrote: »

At one point in the exchanges over health, Mr Cowen told the Fine Gael spokesman on Health, Dr James Reilly, that if the heckling continued, he could arrange that Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny would not be heard in the chamber again.

Okay, maybe i need more caffeine to stimulate my foggy neurons this morning, but does anyone know what he meant by this? Was it just a schoolyard threat or is there some ancient legislation that allows the Taoiseach to silence the Leader of the Opposition?!

guinnessdrinker

I don't think anyone has a problem with the F word as such. It's just people don't expect our Taoiseach to come out with it in the Dail or to engage in childish behaviour.

Is it too much to ask for to have a dignified Taoiseach. Maybe an outright statesman is too much to ask for, we haven't had one in a long time, maybe Jack Lynch was the last one that came close to it.

It's not just Cowen though, a lot of our politicians don't seem to care about dignity in any public office.

On a side note, can anyone imagine someone like Barack Obama behaving like Cowen did yesterday. I know he is not a leader of a country, I just picked him as an example.

Maybe Cowen et al are just being paid too much money and they feel they don't have to justify their saleries by acting like responsible politicians should.

brianthebard

You'd think he'd be able to control his temper a bit better and not let a bit of heckling get the better of him, he's been in the Dail for years he should be used to it by now. It really does seem like he's throwing his weight around, a bit '' I'm taoiseach, respect me!!!!"

CtrlSource

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

Is it too much to ask for to have a dignified Taoiseach. Maybe an outright statesman is too much to ask for, we haven't had one in a long time, maybe Jack Lynch was the last one that came close to it.

Like him or loathe him, Charles Haughey was statesmanlike.

Lemming

CtrlSource wrote: »

Like him or loathe him, Charles Haughey was statesmanlike.

No. Charlie Haughey appeared statesmanlike. The reality was anything but when you scratched beneath the thin veneer.

CtrlSource

i'm not saying he was the greatest statesman ever, but he was certainly statesmanlike. i'm talking about his public face here, not how he treated people in private. So, from that point of view, he was pretty impressive.

ART6

Deleted User wrote: »

Lol at the righteous indignation here.
(1) Cowen wasn't talking about Kenny or the opposition-he was using every day slang to describe a group not for the microphone but overheard.
What a kafuffle over nothing and of course a silly mis hearing by Kenny.

Quite. Storm in a teacup anyone? Tabloid media at it's best.

Mind you, going on to threaten a rabble rousing in response to FG childishness didn't do him any favours.

mcaul

CtrlSource wrote: »

Okay, maybe i need more caffeine to stimulate my foggy neurons this morning, but does anyone know what he meant by this? Was it just a schoolyard threat or is there some ancient legislation that allows the Taoiseach to silence the Leader of the Opposition?!

78 FF voices versus the whispers of Enda Kenny.

No contest.

From what I've seen, FF & Labour give respect to other speakers, whilst FG behave like pre-pubesant children with the teacher out of class! Hopefully FF won't resort to this behaviour.

Crash

To be honest, having seen the sneppet from the Dail the other night around 11 or 12 in RTE, I felt Cowen was quite right. He was attempting to say something, was repeatedly being barracked across, and simply said "if this is the way you want to act, I can do the same, because i'm not going to tolerate this".

Wasn't helped by the fact that Kennys reply came across quite whingy - both could've saved some face there.

Fleming15

This story tells us how far we have fallen.

The country is talking about the remark of a big gulpin. There are a lot more important issues to be concerned with.

Sherifu

Fleming15 wrote: »

This story tells us how far we have fallen.

The country is talking about the remark of a big gulpin. There are a lot more important issues to be concerned with.

Let me guess, chem trails?