Manchester United Transfer Rumours/Discussion 2008/2009

Killme00

Boggles wrote: »

United will have no problem moving on from Ronaldo, the biggest issue is replacing the goals, that means Prolific striker time, there is no winger out there IMO who would reach 15 prem goals.

I agree but assists is more important for me from wingers. Nani looked to have excellent delivery last night, so if we could add another winger/playmaker and a natural finisher then i think the goals will come.

Mitch Connor

Killme00 wrote: »

Without getting into the money side of things Ronaldo did not win the league on his own. If Ronaldo didnt get all those goasl, then someone else would have.

Alot of people seem to think that Ronaldo owes us something. He doesnt. Whenever a player leaves Utd, i always watch their progress wherever they go. I am delighted that Forlan started banging them in in Spain, same for Ruud and even Beckham.

Ronaldo does owe United fans something, he certainly does. He owes a CRAP LOAD more respect then he has shown us. If he wanted to move on, he should have just said it, straight out. This crap about no wanting to disrupt the Portugal campaign is just that, crap. Surely it would have been less distracting (or at worst no more distracting) if he had kjust said he wanted to leave and that was it - wouldn't have had the press asking him, and anyone who would talk to them, about it every single day.

He owes us respect, which he has not shown.

Killme00

Tauren wrote: »

I reckon it will either be 70million cash, or about 50million and a player. (Probably, unfortunately, Robinho - i'd prefer Sneijder or Ramos)

Schneider looked great before his injuru this year, i really like the look of him but they wouldnt get rid of him as he has only arrived. What about Robben?

Boggles

Killme00 wrote: »

I agree but assists is more important for me from wingers. Nani looked to have excellent delivery last night, so if we could add another winger/playmaker and a natural finisher then i think the goals will come.

I word, Fabergas! Why Not!!

Mitch Connor

Killme00 wrote: »

Schneider looked great before his injuru this year, i really like the look of him but they wouldnt get rid of him as he has only arrived. What about Robben?

Wouldn't touch Robben - has never looked as good as he did in his first season with Chelsea, and is far to injury prone.

Killme00

Tauren wrote: »

Ronaldo does owe United fans something, he certainly does. He owes a CRAP LOAD more respect then he has shown us. If he wanted to move on, he should have just said it, straight out. This crap about no wanting to disrupt the Portugal campaign is just that, crap. Surely it would have been less distracting (or at worst no more distracting) if he had kjust said he wanted to leave and that was it - wouldn't have had the press asking him, and anyone who would talk to them, about it every single day.

He owes us respect, which he has not shown.

I dont think this is true. He owes that to the manager and to carlos but not to me. For all we know he has already spoken to Carlos or Fergie and they have asked him to keep schtum while they work on targets. If its announced then his price will go down and the targets prices will go up.

Killme00

Tauren wrote: »

Wouldn't touch Robben - has never looked as good as he did in his first season with Chelsea, and is far to injury prone.

He didnt suit Morinho's style of football but being played as an out and out winger, i think he would be great for us. I agree on him being injury prone though, what age is he.

Ashley Young FTW

Mitch Connor

Killme00 wrote: »

I dont think this is true. He owes that to the manager and to carlos but not to me. For all we know he has already spoken to Carlos or Fergie and they have asked him to keep schtum while they work on targets. If its announced then his price will go down and the targets prices will go up.

fair enough, but it is the fans that have been paying his wages, and cheering his name. The fans that supported after WC06, and the rape allegations. I think every player owes the fans of their club respect.

Boggles

Tauren wrote: »

The fans that supported after WC06, and the rape allegations. I think every player owes the fans of their club respect.

Come on now, he could have raped a baby panda, the fans weren't going to give him flack since the World cup, he has scored 70 odd goals and we have been extremely successful.

For me Ronaldo owes me nothing, the 80 million we get for him will be payment enough.

Killme00

I have been asking myself today how would Matt Busby deal with this situation. Fergie has been very quiet which tells me that he is up to something.

Racing Flat

Killme00 wrote: »

Without getting into the money side of things Ronaldo did not win the league on his own. If Ronaldo didnt get all those goasl, then someone else would have.

My point wasn't that he won it on his own but that he was by far the most influential player. By a long, long way, to the extent that has never been seen in the Premiership, or maybe even the League before that. There are great players like Torres, van Nistlerooy etc. but every so often you get a player who is incredibly influential, and it seems like they can drag the team to victory almost singlehandedly, either by brilliance or attitude/presence e.g. Maradona with Napoli and Argentina, Valderama with Colombia, Matthaus with Germany, Zidane, maybe Roy Keane and now most certainly Ronaldo with Utd.

Racing Flat

Tauren wrote: »

Ronaldo does owe United fans something, he certainly does. He owes a CRAP LOAD more respect then he has shown us. If he wanted to move on, he should have just said it, straight out. This crap about no wanting to disrupt the Portugal campaign is just that, crap. Surely it would have been less distracting (or at worst no more distracting) if he had kjust said he wanted to leave and that was it - wouldn't have had the press asking him, and anyone who would talk to them, about it every single day.

He owes us respect, which he has not shown.

What I can't fathom is that he could have shown this respect and still get what he wants. All he had to do is say 'I don't want to leave' or if he didn't want to lie 'I am under contract to Utd., end of duiscussion'. and then as soon as he is back at Utd. he could tell them he wants to leave and then they could sort it out professionally. Must have an incredible ego.

I'd LOVE if Utd. sold him to Barcelona just to spite Madrid though:p.

grames_bond

Boggles wrote: »

Your right, no chance it will be translated straight to transfer funds. It will help thou, we still have to shell out 20 odd million for Tevez..

20 million is well worth it for a constant profressional like tevez! i think ronnie will have one more season with us then feck off for 40 mill next summer!

Killme00

Racing Flat wrote: »

My point wasn't that he won it on his own but that he was by far the most influential player. By a long, long way, to the extent that has never been seen in the Premiership, or maybe even the League before that. There are great players like Torres, van Nistlerooy etc. but every so often you get a player who is incredibly influential, and it seems like they can drag the team to victory almost singlehandedly, either by brilliance or attitude/presence e.g. Maradona with Napoli and Argentina, Valderama with Colombia, Matthaus with Germany, Zidane, maybe Roy Keane and now most certainly Ronaldo with Utd.

Ronaldo is a different type of player to all of these guys. Each and every one of them 'were' the team that they were in. In Ronaldo's case, he is not the team, Rio, Vida, Rooney, Tevez and Scoles all did as much to win the league as Ronaldo. He played a huge part but he is not the team.

And as Arsenal proved this year, Henry was not their team.

Indie18

to be honest utd would be in more trouble if the lost tevez and rooney than if they lost ronaldo. don't get me wrong he is quality but in my opinion he could be replaced quicker than either of the other two.

MrPillowTalk

Indie18 wrote: »

to be honest utd would be in more trouble if the lost tevez and rooney than if they lost ronaldo. don't get me wrong he is quality but in my opinion he could be replaced quicker than either of the other two.

LOL

MrPillowTalk

Killme00 wrote: »

Ronaldo is a different type of player to all of these guys. Each and every one of them 'were' the team that they were in. In Ronaldo's case, he is not the team, Rio, Vida, Rooney, Tevez and Scoles all did as much to win the league as Ronaldo. He played a huge part but he is not the team.

And as Arsenal proved this year, Henry was not their team.

LOL

Mr Alan

had to chuckle at that one too

Indie18

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

LOL

good point i suppose.

Racing Flat

Killme00 wrote: »

Ronaldo is a different type of player to all of these guys. Each and every one of them 'were' the team that they were in. In Ronaldo's case, he is not the team, Rio, Vida, Rooney, Tevez and Scoles all did as much to win the league as Ronaldo. He played a huge part but he is not the team.

And as Arsenal proved this year, Henry was not their team.

I disagree. The season just past anyway, he created and got goals in matches that Utd. never looked like winning. They used to say Schmeichel was worth 15 points a season, but Ronaldos performances were in my opinion worth significantly more. Without him a lot of the 3 points may have been 1 point. However, I agree with you that if he leaves the may not really miss him as 1) they have good enough other players who might come out of themselves a little more when not having Ronaldo to pull them out of the sh1te like what happened at Arsenal when Henry left and 2) they have the resources to buy people like Nani and Anderson, so that they can replace like with like. Some people say you can't replace the best player in the world, but they can and probably wil replace him with someone who has teh potential to be the best player in the world. Hence when he leaves the transition will be seamless enough, just like when Cantona, or Keane left, simply because the club is powerful enough to cope. Hence maybe they would be aswell to get rid of him. He may never be as valuable as he is now. Perhaps that's why Ferguson is being quiet, maybe he wants rid, and he' just trying to do it in the best way, ie find the ideal replacement.

Killme00

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

LOL

Collectively that is

Indie18

Racing Flat wrote: »

I disagree. The season just past anyway, he created and got goals in matches that Utd. never looked like winning. They used to say Schmeichel was worth 15 points a season, but Ronaldos performances were in my opinion worth significantly more. Without him a lot of the 3 points may have been 1 point. However, I agree with you that if he leaves the may not really miss him as 1) they have good enough other players who might come out of themselves a little more when not having Ronaldo to pull them out of the sh1te like what happened at Arsenal when Henry left and 2) they have the resources to buy people like Nani and Anderson, so that they can replace like with like. Some people say you can't replace the best player in the world, but they can and probably wil replace him with someone who has teh potential to be the best player in the world. Hence when he leaves the transition will be seamless enough, just like when Cantona, or Keane left, simply because the club is powerful enough to cope. Hence maybe they would be aswell to get rid of him. He may never be as valuable as he is now. Perhaps that's why Ferguson is being quiet, maybe he wants rid, and he' just trying to do it in the best way, ie find the ideal replacement.

i agree with most of what you say but i don't care who you are nobody wants rid of a player like ronaldo

Racing Flat

Killme00 wrote: »

Rio, Vida, Rooney, Tevez and Scoles all did as much to win the league as Ronaldo. He played a huge part but he is not the team.

Eamonn, is that you?

Killme00

Racing Flat wrote: »

Eamonn, is that you?

I meant collectively

Mr Alan

Villa and Berbatov, Villa and Eto'o, Torres and Villa there is countless replacements for Rooney and Tevez, name me one for ronaldo......

Racing Flat

Indie18 wrote: »

i agree with most of what you say but i don't care who you are nobody wants rid of a player like ronaldo

Of course, but you've got to make the most out of a bad situation, which might be cashing in and keeping team spirit etc. As Fergie has shown before, no-one is bigger than the team. Who would have got rid of Stam, Keane or van Nistlerooy? But those bold managerial moves all probably worked out for the better of the club in the long run. You wouldn't want rid of Ronaldo the player, but Roanldo the player who is demanding more money and not showing committment to the club you might be better off without.

Racing Flat

Killme00 wrote: »

I meant collectively

So, if you're saying 5 players collectively did as much to win the League as Ronaldo, surely that supports my point that he was the most influential player, and went a long way to winning it 'singlehandedly' as much as that is possible...

Killme00

Mr Alan wrote: »

Villa and Berbatov, Villa and Eto'o, Torres and Villa there is countless replacements for Rooney and Tevez, name me one for ronaldo......

Name me one replacement for Eric Cantona, RVN, Roy Keane, Jaap Staam.

Fergie will find one.

Racing Flat

Mr Alan wrote: »

Villa and Berbatov, Villa and Eto'o, Torres and Villa there is countless replacements for Rooney and Tevez, name me one for ronaldo......

Messi maybe? Or at a push Kaka? But it's probably not very realistic to replace him directly, better off trying to find a younger player who might be as good as Ronaldo after 4-5 years of development, just like the great Ronaldo himself needed time to develop. Maybe this is what they see in Nani? But I've not seen enough of him to know whether he might progress to that level.

Indie18

Mr Alan wrote: »

Villa and Berbatov, Villa and Eto'o, Torres and Villa there is countless replacements for Rooney and Tevez, name me one for ronaldo......

i'm not saying it would be easy to replace ronaldo. on the other hand he is not all he is cracked up to be. i mean he hardly impressed in the euros did he. the last two seasons he was great for utd but he can't keep that up year after year. your right in saying rooney and tevez can be replaced but so can ronaldo so can any player.............................and what the hell is the picture in your sig i recognise it but i don't know what it is.

sharkDawg

Mr Alan wrote: »

Villa and Berbatov, Villa and Eto'o, Torres and Villa there is countless replacements for Rooney and Tevez, name me one for ronaldo......

There were successful Utd teams before Ronaldo and will be after!

grames_bond

Killme00 wrote: »

Name me one replacement for Eric Cantona, RVN, Roy Keane, Jaap Staam.

Fergie will find one.

great point, there was no like for like replacement for any of these players....especially keano, the remaining players all had to come into their own to try and claim that spot and fill that void, and as a result we ended up with a more rounded team, now im not sayin i want ronnie to leave but what i am saying is that we will not fall apart if he does leave!

Mr Alan

I'm not doubting that, but currently in world football he is irreplacable imo

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm not doubting that, but currently in world football he is irreplacable imo

Yet during the season you were saying he was over-rated.

Whats the betting that if he stays he will become over-rated again.

Mr Alan

Tauren mate, pretty sure for quite some time i've been saying he is the best player in the world.

not perfect, but the best in the world no doubt.

ShiverinEskimo

In Fairness I have seen Alan agree that Ronaldo is the best player in the World. He does think he is over-rated too though - alan just has really high standards.

Spud83

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

In Fairness I have seen Alan agree that Ronaldo is the best player in the World. He does think he is over-rated too though - alan just has really high standards.

Hmmm supports the wrong team then.:)

Boggles

Ronaldo can't be replaced, his goals and assists can.

2 years ago we lost Keane, RVN (140 games - 108 goals). A year later we lost Solskjar and Saha.

We all know what happened then.

The mere suggestion that United will struggle is farcical.

Ferguson addressed it by changing Paul Scholes to accommodate Carrick, he addressed it further by going out last year and basically purchasing nearly an entire midfield.

Captain Neville gets injured, does he panic and rush out and buy a right back, no (mainly because Chelsea bought them all ) He turns Brown who in fairness noone would have missed two years ago into what he was this year, fantastic.

I think Ferguson knows what he is doing, I for one with or without Ronaldo am looking forward to next season.

kryogen

i am willing to take prop bets on this, for everyone thats so 100% sure he is gone if you would like to pm we can arrange some friendly prop bets on it. i am willing to put my money where my mouth and belief is.

We have seen this year after year with speculation and ****e, and definate transfers that never happen, Ronaldinho to Man U, Gerrard to Chelsea, Viera to Madrid, Fabregas to Madrid, Kaka to Madrid!

and transfers that do happen, Henry to Barca, Viera to Inter, Beckham to Madrid

i dont believe he is going anywhere, i wouldnt be overly surpirsed if he did mind, but i dont think it will happen,same as after the WC when was "definatly" going aswell.

To all who think he is gone, would you really be that surprised if he stays?

ok, so pm me if anyones interested, id prefer to keep it off the thread!

NaiveMelodies

Heres your odds then:
Where will Ronaldo start next season?

Real Madrid 4 - 6
Man Utd 11 - 10
Any other club 16 - 1

kryogen

really? sky had the odds up a few minutes ago and they had

Madrid 4/5
United 10/11
they have him as

9/2 to be top scorer in la liga and 4/1 to be top scorer in the prem

13/2 to win the champions league with any team next season

cant remember the odds to win the league with any club off the top of my head

the bet im proposing is an even money bet

kryogen

would anyone be intersted in Van Der Vaart?

http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid=%7BB4CEE8FA%2D9A47%2D47BC%2DB069%2D3F7A2F35DB70%7D&newsid=6612190

the last part is about him, the first bit is as always about you know who


also, apparently Spurs are after RVN, if these rumors are to be believed then i would be very confident of Berba being on his way.

http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=99393

NaiveMelodies

kryogen wrote: »

really? sky had the odds up a few minutes ago and they had

Madrid 4/5
United 10/11
they have him as

9/2 to be top scorer in la liga and 4/1 to be top scorer in the prem

13/2 to win the champions league with any team next season

cant remember the odds to win the league with any club off the top of my head

the bet im proposing is an even money bet

Emm its paddypower figures for me.

Thats gas tho the top scorer bet.

Unfortunately, im in the same boat as you so i wont be betting with yourself but im sure therll be plenty takers.

Smegball

kryogen wrote: »

would anyone be intersted in Van Der Vaart?

I'd love to see Van Der Vaart at United

Tom65

I don't think we need any midfielders. If Ronaldo leaves, then someone along the lines of Robinho (ie, someone who can play wing or up front). But in terms of central midfielders we already have Carrick, Scholes, Hargreaves, Anderson, Fletcher.

kryogen wrote: »

also, apparently Spurs are after RVN, if these rumors are to be believed then i would be very confident of Berba being on his way.

http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=99393

Does anyone think that we didn't do particularly well out of the RVN transfer money-wise? They paid (according to Wikipedia) £12.5m (€18m) and he's scored 51 goals in 62 games. That article quotes £16m for him. Not much use now, obviously, but just a thought.

NaiveMelodies

Tom65 wrote: »

Does anyone think that we didn't do particularly well out of the RVN transfer money-wise? They paid (according to Wikipedia) £12.5m (€18m) and he's scored 51 goals in 62 games. That article quotes £16m for him. Not much use now, obviously, but just a thought.

Ye and i also think we sold beckham cheaply, considering his marketing value.

Spud83

I think both were cases of player wants to go + club wants them to go = less transfer value.

Also in Beckhams case he had told Man Utd that he would only leave for Madrid so we really didn't have much of a bargaining position there.

CHD

you will neva know how much RVN cost Madrid.Real dont pay all up front either probably made more in installments.

Tom65

only1stevo wrote: »

Ye and i also think we sold beckham cheaply, considering his marketing value.

To be honest, I only think we got as much as we did because of his marketing value. Consider I've heard around £8m quoted for Frank Lampard to Inter. I'd say in terms of overall ability they're about the same (or the Beckham that was sold to Madrid with Lampard nowadays).

Hobart

Boggles wrote: »

Ronaldo can't be replaced, his goals and assists can.

2 years ago we lost Keane, RVN (140 games - 108 goals). A year later we lost Solskjar and Saha.

We all know what happened then.

The mere suggestion that United will struggle is farcical.

Ferguson addressed it by changing Paul Scholes to accommodate Carrick, he addressed it further by going out last year and basically purchasing nearly an entire midfield.

Captain Neville gets injured, does he panic and rush out and buy a right back, no (mainly because Chelsea bought them all ) He turns Brown who in fairness noone would have missed two years ago into what he was this year, fantastic.

I think Ferguson knows what he is doing, I for one with or without Ronaldo am looking forward to next season.

It goes beyond all that. Way beyond it. Technically he is irreplaceable, in the current setup. Kaka and Messi are possibly the only players that can do what Ronaldo does for Utd, but it's not about replacing him, far from it.

I don't think that there is a football fan in the world that would not stand up and be counted whenit comes to recognising what Fergie has done for Utd, not one. He's been a complete legend with them, and will be for his remaining years.

Utd have proven in the past that they are all about the sum of their parts and not about individualisation. people talk about Keane, Beckham, RVN and Stam. Fegie was at that long before these guys were finished knocking one out behind the sheds at the hint of a twelve year old's skirt. don't forget the Paul McGrath's of this world, the Bryan Robsons, Andrie Kenchelskis, Pauk Ince's etc... the list is long and bloodied of the corpses Fergie has left behind when the nay-sayers were saying "they'll never survive afetr this".

Of course Utd will survive and be successful. No doubt. It's in Fergie's blood, he can't help but breed these guy's and nurture them and unleesh them. Anybody remember Ole? What about Cantona? Schmeichel? Bruce? All under the radar singings, all fantastic players.

So it's not about Utd's ability to "bounce back" after the loss of a player, as history would suggest they are more than capable of doing it.

What's happening is that Ronaldo (to his shame I must add) is making a complete fool of himself, and Fergie, and Fergie won't like it. A simple 30 sec press conference would have clered up any ambiguity. And stopped all the press attention around the Euros. how come his manager can announce, mid-tournament, that he is leaving for Chelsea, and yet he cannot state what he is doing one way or the other? I know why. It's because he wants to leave and play for Real. No question, that's what Ronaldo wants. How he does it is a different issue all together, but he does want to go.

The issue is how does he construct a situation whereby he can leave? It's obvious that Ferbie and Gill want him to stay. What does he do? His marketing and image rights are massive, and Utd will be wary of not only losing a top player but losing a money pit, which they so obviously did with Beckham. i know somebody quoted a year here for Real to recoup the layout on Beckham, I thought it was closer to 4 months.

If he goes, and I think he will, he will have allowed Real to ride "rough shod" over United and made a complete idiot out of Fergie, Gill and Carlos. That, I believe, is the real issue behind the transfer. He obviously wants to go, it's the politics that are stopping it, not the players desire.