Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Iraq and Afghanistan-different ideas

Options
2»

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    anybody read or see the green marine in iraq who been plugging his book,s ome irish lad who signed up days after 9/11 and says he has no regrets about going to IRAQ, and literally said he was told to turn his brain off by his superior officer and that's what he did. total fool couldn't justify his actions whatsoever.


  • Options
    #33
    Red Hand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,986 ✭✭✭Red Hand


    lostexpectation wrote: »
    anybody read or see the green marine in iraq who been plugging his book,s ome irish lad who signed up days after 9/11 and says he has no regrets about going to IRAQ, and literally said he was told to turn his brain off by his superior officer and that's what he did. total fool couldn't justify his actions whatsoever.

    Yeah, heard him on some radio show. Someone's always writing some sh*te book about their "experiences".


  • Options
    #34
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    CPT. SURF wrote: »
    It was necessary to mention, not stress as you say, that they were communists because that is the only reason the US got involved. Surprised you did not know that.
    Of course I was aware of the "commies", but I don't see how that possibly justifies anything.
    CPT. SURF wrote: »
    I was referring to another poster who put the whole situation down to US "meddling"...
    I am not blaming the US for the "whole situation"; I quite clearly stated that. But the US obviously has to accept a sizeable portion of the blame for the current situation in Afghanistan (and other nations too) - you admitted as much yourself, no?
    CPT. SURF wrote: »
    I said it was a combination of the actions from both sides. You then go on to make the EXACT point I made in my post and ask me if it is better than my post!
    Eh, no; I was asking (in a slightly sarcastic manner) whether you felt this statement…

    "Ok, so the Soviets (not sure why it was necessary to stress that they were communists) AND the US ****ed up Afghanistan"

    …was more accurate (i.e. better) than my previous statement (which I still stand by).


  • Options
    #35
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    CPT. SURF wrote: »
    Sorry wes, my bad. Thats why I was surprised, I normally like your posts

    NP, happens to the best of us.


  • Options
    #36
    CPT. SURF
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭CPT. SURF


    Of course I was aware of the "commies", but I don't see how that possibly justifies anything.

    Justify what? I dont even know what you are on about there...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    suspectdevice
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭suspectdevice


    Fratton Fred wrote: »

    You have both made very simple summations of the two, very diffeent, situations and ended up blaming the US which in the case of Afghanistan is very unfair.
    America wanted to complete a pipeline between Azerbijani Oil Fields and Bengal/Pakistan, the only way they could do this was by pretending to chase down Bin Laden after 911, oust the Taliban and finish the work.
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Can someone explain to me why the US had to invade Iraq to secure oil, this has always confused me. Surely they could just buy it like they do from Saudi, UAE etc.

    Iraq was not playing ball. It wanted to control it own Oil contracts and sell to the Russians amongst others. The single Superpower could not allow this to happen. Rumsfeld decided to enter Iraq 4 or 5 hours after 9/11 happened. Forget all the morally correct justifications, here it is in black and white.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/04/september11/main520830.shtml

    If you stop playing the American way then you suffer, you can't drop out of the game whenever you like, once in, you stay in. Libya suffered something similar because the Colonel wanted to use the profits from his countries oil to plant forests and build schools and hospitals. America wanted the profits so they bombed them. All in the name of democracy, huh!


  • Options
    #38
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    suspectdevice wrote: »
    Libya suffered something similar because the Colonel wanted to use the profits from his countries oil to plant forests and build schools and hospitals. America wanted the profits so they bombed them. All in the name of democracy, huh!

    I'm inclined to think that if Libya hadn't blown up that disco in Berlin, the bombing of Libya would not have happened. You're pushing it a bit to try to correlate the bombing to an American objection to planting trees.

    NTM


  • Options
    #39
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    It's not as if they actively tried to set the one off against the other.

    Actually there is a possibility that's exactly what happened. It's also a tactic used by the US before and the Brits have been doing it for a hundred years or so.


    They're trying to get the refugees back into Iraq. If the refugees feel safer in Jordan or Syria, there's not much that can be done otherwise.

    ...whilst refusing to be allowed into America. Great stuff there. Blow up the place and then send anyone home that wants to get away from it. Actually there's a lot that can be done. Stop bombing the place and do what the Iraqi's want you to do...which is leave.



    I don't know about the UK, but that loophole in the US law (Civilians contracted by State Dept were out of jurisdiction, civilians contracted by DoD could be) has since been fixed. A State-Dept civilian contractor is currently facing court-martial for an alleged murder comitted earlier this year.

    NTM

    Well that's ok then.


  • Options
    #40
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    I'm inclined to think that if Libya hadn't blown up that disco in Berlin, the bombing of Libya would not have happened. You're pushing it a bit to try to correlate the bombing to an American objection to planting trees.

    NTM

    I'm inclined to think it would have happened wether or not the disco bombing happened or that possibly Libya had nothing to do with it...just like Lockerbie. The US military was trying to provoke a response to get an excuse as it was.


  • Options
    #41
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Why does a discussion like this always turn into "Do the questioners believe that Saddam should have been left in power ?" ????

    The backlash from 9/11 was supposedly against the Taliban, and if the U.S. had said "Saddam supports them, so we need to stop that", then fair enough.....but with all the lies about WMDs and other rubbish anyone who makes excuses or deflects from the facts should stop digging that hole.

    What IS sad is that the war in Afghanistan is still going on, and is barely reported on because of the headline act next door in Iraq.

    What is the story ? What's going on ? Where's Bin Laden and the other terrorist leaders ?

    Have the U.S. Administration finally decided to go after Bin Laden and his crew, or are they just doing what they're doing in Iraq - causing havoc for no reason (at least, none known to the general public) ?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    suspectdevice wrote: »
    America wanted to complete a pipeline between Azerbijani Oil Fields and Bengal/Pakistan, the only way they could do this was by pretending to chase down Bin Laden after 911, oust the Taliban and finish the work.



    Iraq was not playing ball. It wanted to control it own Oil contracts and sell to the Russians amongst others. The single Superpower could not allow this to happen. Rumsfeld decided to enter Iraq 4 or 5 hours after 9/11 happened. Forget all the morally correct justifications, here it is in black and white.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/04/september11/main520830.shtml

    If you stop playing the American way then you suffer, you can't drop out of the game whenever you like, once in, you stay in. Libya suffered something similar because the Colonel wanted to use the profits from his countries oil to plant forests and build schools and hospitals. America wanted the profits so they bombed them. All in the name of democracy, huh!

    got anything to back this up? other than posts on the conspiracy forum of course.

    Was this magical pipeline also going to go through Kosovo or Bosnia?


  • Options
    #43
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    CPT. SURF wrote: »
    Justify what? I dont even know what you are on about there...
    It's quite straight forward really; you implied that the communist presence in Afghanistan justified US involvement. I am saying I fail to see why that is the case. Did the threat of the spread of communism also justify the Vietnam war? I don't think so.
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    What is the story ? What's going on ? Where's Bin Laden and the other terrorist leaders ?

    Have the U.S. Administration finally decided to go after Bin Laden and his crew, or are they just doing what they're doing in Iraq - causing havoc for no reason (at least, none known to the general public) ?
    Didn't you get the memo - nobody cares about Bin Laden anymore; turns out Tehran is to blame for all the world's ills (and possibly Damascus too).


  • Options
    #44
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    sovtek wrote: »
    I'm inclined to think it would have happened wether or not the disco bombing happened or that possibly Libya had nothing to do with it...just like Lockerbie. The US military was trying to provoke a response to get an excuse as it was.

    Given that the German courts convicted a Libyan, and a Palestinian working for Libya, of the bombing, and that the Libyans agreed to pay compensation, it's likely that the Libyans did have something to do with it.

    NTM


Advertisement