Drogba versus Benitez

dublinario

Genuinely, I'm not laying in the boot to Drogba after last night's Champions League final. I tried to start this thread yesterday before the game, but my Broadband went haywire. It annoyed me in the lead-up to last night's match, and ever since the final whistle of the semis, (seemingly) the entire media adopted the angle that Drogba had served comeuppance upon a wanton detractor in Benitez.

I'm not naive, and I appreciate how this was a 'good story' (in the cynical world of football journalism), particularly with the hook of Drogba (allegedly) sticking a picture of Benitez above his locker to motivate himself. But take a step back and ask: how did Drogba come out of this the hero, and Benitez the villain?

All Benitez did was draw attention to the diving antics of arguably the premiership's most inveterate diver, fearful that Drogba's cheating could adversely affect the game's outcome. Drogba is then painted a hero just because the criticism motivates him to a rare simulation-free game? The man who accurately highlights cheating is painted as the villain, and a player is lauded for merely playing fair?

mike65

Drogba used Rafas correct observation as a tool. Drogba is also a tool.

Mike.

gucci

Oh this is so convenient, we can have a full dedicated thread Dider Drogba....Now im off to start another on John Terry.

I think Drogba is a tool also for what it is worth.

leninbenjamin

Benitez played mindgames that backfired. Drogba used his comments to motivate himself. happens all the time, nothing unusual about it. the media just overblew the story as usual.

dublinario

gucci wrote: »

Oh this is so convenient, we can have a full dedicated thread Dider Drogba

Well, I did call the thread Drogba versus Benitez, so I hardly had an ulterior motive!

I'll declare my colours lads, I'm a Liverpool fan. But I think Drogba's antics would disgust me regardless of my team. Diving is my bugbear, and it drives me ballistic to see a 15 stone athlete going down like he's been shot every 5 seconds. Makalele was at it last night too, pretending he needed smelling salts to be revived from a flailing arm that barely scraped him. If a light caress knocks human beings out, how is there such a sport as boxing?

As I said, I'm a Liverpool fan, but there are quite a few players I admire on UTD, and Vidic is one of them. When Drogba gave him a light slap, did he go down like a tonne of bricks? No. He tried to kill Drogba, and might have done so where it not for the restraint of his team mates. Were the roles reversed, Drogba would probably be emerging only now from a fake coma, just as fake doctors were moving to unplug a fake life-support machine.

helimachoptor

dublinario wrote: »

As I said, I'm a Liverpool fan, but there are quite a few players I admire on UTD, and Vidic is one of them. When Drogba gave him a light slap, did he go down like a tonne of bricks? No. He tried to kill Drogba, and might have done so where it not for the restraint of his team mates. Were the roles reversed, Drogba would probably be emerging only now from a fake coma, just as fake doctors were moving to unplug a fake life-support machine.

Probably! I for one would not cross Vidic

dublinario

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Benitez played mindgames that backfired. Drogba used his comments to motivate himself. happens all the time, nothing unusual about it. the media just overblew the story as usual.

I don't disagree with that Leninbenjamin. That's undoubtedly what happened. Benitez was trying to influence the ref before the game, but I don't necessarily think that makes him sly or conniving in this particular instance, because he was voicing a legitimate concern about a rampant cheat.

Drogba took Benitez comments as a slight, and motivated himself to an awesome, match-winning display, in which he showcased all the brilliant qualities he possess in his arsenal. What p*ssed me off was that not one journalist had the guts to state the bleedin obvious: that he shouldn't need such comments -- and remember, they were truthful and accurate -- from a rival manager to spur him to a fair and brilliant game. Seriously, I didn't read one article that even alluded to this simple, obvious point, and I think that's a sad indictment of sports journalism, and how conditioned the media now are to cheating.

ciaran76

Drogba should look at Gerrard on how to dive.;):p

dublinario

ciaran76 wrote: »

Drogba should look at Gerrard on how to dive.;):p

I wouldn't deny that one mate. I have to take that on the chin, Gerrard does dive, much as it disgusts me.

jank

Those damm foreigners, ruining our game!

Bubs101

As a Chelsea fan I fully support Drogba when it comes to his feud with Benites. For one, regardless of how apparently lame the way he motivates himself is, every person has different ticks and there is no doubt that his worked

All Benitez did was draw attention to the diving antics of arguably the premiership's most inveterate diver, fearful that Drogba's cheating could adversely affect the game's outcome. Drogba is then painted a hero just because the criticism motivates him to a rare simulation-free game? The man who accurately highlights cheating is painted as the villain, and a player is lauded for merely playing fair?

The second problem I have is easily depicted here. He didn't accurately depict highlights of cheating, he manipulated them to make Drogba look like he dived all the time and to put pressure on referees not to give him free kicks, simple as. If he wanted to highlight some diving before the game from in my opinion, the games worst diver, he could have just turned to his captain and told him there's to be no diving tonight. He didn't. Infact, in that match not one Chelsea player dived but there were some instances of Liverpool play-acting, such as Hyppia in the box. Rafa is a tool because he is a hypocrite, Drogba is a tool because he fights with his teammates

ciaran76

I think also the media wont ask him any tough question nor any footballer in that case is beacuse either the player or his team could end up blanking that reporters newspaper and no lovely interviews for that paper in the future.

Thats the horrible fact in todays world.:(

dublinario

Gerrard is a diver Bubs101, I accept that. But I don't think Benitez was necessarily trying to win free kicks in highlighting Drogba's antics before the game. Carragher and others were on yellow-cards, and I think it was a legitimate concern that a Drogba dive could result in a player of ours missing the final (obviously a moot point considering we got thumped!)

Two wrongs don't make a right though Bubs101. Just because Gerrard dives, it doesn't make Drogba's behaviour any less disgusting. I would argue that even among the pantheon of today's worst divers, Drogba is the king. Whereas other divers maybe go down in the box trying to get a peno, Drogba goes miles farther and goes down constantly, anywhere on the pitch, reducing the game to a stuttered affair interspersed with bouts of fake physio for fake injuries.

That's the crux of what elevates Drogba, I feel, above all other divers. Giles touched on it recently on the RTE panel: Drogba regularly goes off the pitch to get fake treatment for fake injuries. Maybe other divers have done this once in a blue moon, perhaps given how dramatically they went down. But Drogba, to my mind, is the only player who does this regularly, to the point that you start to wonder if his brain is wired incorrectly, and he actually convinces himself that he was fouled, and is hurt.

It disgusts me more than I can articulate lads. Essentially, Drogba is happy to leave his team play with 10 men several times a game, and in doing so also takes rests, and exhibits behaviour for which it is pretty impossible to find a motivation. Say he goes down easy from a nothing challenge at the half-way line, and then goes off the pitch for fake treatment, leaving his team at 10 men for about 1 or 2 minutes. What has he achieved? There's no peno involved. Is he obsessed with sympathy? Is he delusional? Does he hate running for 90 minutes?

Pepe LeFrits

I like Drogba. He makes a great panto-villain.

Bubs101

dublinario wrote: »

Gerrard is a diver Bubs101, I accept that. But I don't think Benitez was necessarily trying to win free kicks in highlighting Drogba's antics before the game. Carragher and others were on yellow-cards, and I think it was a legitimate concern that a Drogba dive could result in a player of ours missing the final (obviously a moot point considering we got thumped!)

Essien was on a yellow card too and yet you didn't see Grant highlight Gerrards diving before the match, he took the higher road and so should have Benitez

dublinario wrote: »

Two wrongs don't make a right though Bubs101. Just because Gerrard dives, it doesn't make Drogba's behaviour any less disgusting. I would argue that even among the pantheon of today's worst divers, Drogba is the king. Whereas other divers maybe go down in the box trying to get a peno, Drogba goes miles farther and goes down constantly, anywhere on the pitch, reducing the game to a stuttered affair interspersed with bouts of fake physio for fake injuries.

That's just personal opinion. For me, Gerrard is by far the worst diver for the simple fact that at least Ronaldo and Drogba get called out constantly for their diving but Stevie gets left alone. He doesn't have the reputation of the other two which makes him much more dangerous when it comes to his diving. Also, Drogba doesn't go down constantly in all games, like all goos divers, he picks his spots and then goes down. If he did it all the time he'd be sent of sharpish in every match

dublinario wrote: »

That's the crux of what elevates Drogba, I feel, above all other divers. Giles touched on it recently on the RTE panel: Drogba regularly goes off the pitch to get fake treatment for fake injuries. Maybe other divers have done this once in a blue moon, perhaps given how dramatically they went down. But Drogba, to my mind, is the only player who does this regularly, to the point that you start to wonder if his brain is wired incorrectly, and he actually convinces himself that he was fouled, and is hurt.

It's all part of the play acting. For one, it makes it look more legitiamate. Second, he could just need a rast and that's a very very clever way of getting one. As I've already said, I don't like the man, but I'd certainly consider him on a higher plane than Stevie G

DerKaiser

Ok, 1. Drogba is not the worst diver in the world, Gerrard and Ronaldo are WAY worse, Drogba maybe 2-3 years ago, but he is playing honestly at this point in his career I'm sick of numpty muppets and their jealousy for the worlds greatest striker

2. Benitez is a clown, not a great tactician who slandered Drogba as a way to psyche him out but it backfired on him and just focus the Ivorian more, Benitez is not only a bumbling cretin of a manager, who ignores all other competitons unsportingly in the hope that he'll get the same lucky wave he had in 2005, he has also shown how thick he is in the mind games arena

3. Drogba was more than entitled to celebrate his goal in front of Benitez as Lampard was in that glorius 4-1 at Anfield to Shhhh! the kop with his finger as Mourihno did, it's banter, and if you're too sensitive for this, I suggest you stop watching football mate, things could get ugly for you

Blackhorse Slim

DerKaiser wrote: »

Ok, 1. Drogba is not the worst diver in the world, Gerrard and Ronaldo are WAY worse, Drogba maybe 2-3 years ago, but he is playing honestly at this point in his career I'm sick of numpty muppets and their jealousy for the worlds greatest striker

Are you Drogba's agent?

There's no doubting his ability, but he still dives persistently. Every bump he gets he exaggerates, feigns injury, looks pleadingly at the ref and linesman. Much like Ronaldo. Gerrard dives occasionally, similar to, say Rooney, and it gets highlighted when he does. Drogba and Ronaldo do it every game, that is the difference.

RE*AC*TOR

Drogba is a saint. Benitez is quite obviously mentally retarded.

What more needs to be said?

Pepe LeFrits

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

What more needs to be said?

The location of the popcorn!

yom 1

DerKaiser wrote: »

2. Benitez is a clown, not a great tactician who slandered Drogba as a way to psyche him out but it backfired on him and just focus the Ivorian more, Benitez is not only a bumbling cretin of a manager, who ignores all other competitons unsportingly in the hope that he'll get the same lucky wave he had in 2005, he has also shown how thick he is in the mind games arena

Thats quite insightful - do you work for The Sun? Cos with that amount of sensationalist bull$hit you should!

IrishMike

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

Drogba is a saint. Benitez is quite obviously mentally retarded.

What more needs to be said?

May i also just add that Rafa has spent 2 billion in the last 4 years and thats
sterling and not euro.
Also Liverpool would be 15th in the league without Gerrard and Torres.
Oh and Drogba reads to 78 elderly women in a fulham nursing home every thursday evening.

fullstop

dublinario wrote: »

I wouldn't deny that one mate. I have to take that on the chin, Gerrard does dive, much as it disgusts me.

Don't forget Torres...

dublinario

DerKaiser wrote: »

Ok, 1. Drogba is not the worst diver in the world, Gerrard and Ronaldo are WAY worse, Drogba maybe 2-3 years ago, but he is playing honestly at this point in his career I'm sick of numpty muppets and their jealousy for the worlds greatest striker

He's a great player. I wouldn't dispute that. I take issue with his diving, not his ability.

DerKaiser wrote: »

2. Benitez is a clown, not a great tactician who slandered Drogba as a way to psyche him out but it backfired on him and just focus the Ivorian more, Benitez is not only a bumbling cretin of a manager, who ignores all other competitons unsportingly in the hope that he'll get the same lucky wave he had in 2005, he has also shown how thick he is in the mind games arena

Nice to see you're circumspect. He's a bumbling cretin who has won major honours in two different countries. He is also quite dignified for the most part (I know Everton fans would disagree). There has to be a little give and take in any intelligent debate, but if you're going to cast Benitez has a "...bumbling cretin", I can see this descending into flamesville pretty quick.

DerKaiser wrote: »

3. Drogba was more than entitled to celebrate his goal in front of Benitez as Lampard was in that glorius 4-1 at Anfield to Shhhh! the kop with his finger as Mourihno did, it's banter, and if you're too sensitive for this, I suggest you stop watching football mate, things could get ugly for you

Too sensitive for what? No one even mentioned the celebration, so get off your high horse.

dublinario

Bubs101 wrote: »

Essien was on a yellow card too and yet you didn't see Grant highlight Gerrards diving before the match, he took the higher road and so should have Benitez

If Grant had highlighted Gerrards antics, I think it would have been fair enough. I don't agree that silence was a high road, because it implies that calling a diver a diver is a low road.

Bubs101 wrote: »

That's just personal opinion.

I don't have any impersonal opinions, so I have to make do with the contents of my own brain.

Bubs101 wrote: »

Also, Drogba doesn't go down constantly in all games, like all goos divers, he picks his spots and then goes down. If he did it all the time he'd be sent of sharpish in every match

That's a mental assertion. You're claiming that Drogba's diving is subtle? Well I (and practically every other non-Chelsea fan in the world) must all be mighty astute then to see through his brilliant charade. The reason he doesn't get sent off is because he goes down under minimal contact, rather than no contact. Doesn't make it any less reprehensible.

Bubs101 wrote: »

It's all part of the play acting. For one, it makes it look more legitiamate. Second, he could just need a rest and that's a very very clever way of getting one.

Again, you have a pretty low standard of 'cleverness' if you regard Drogba's antics as being such. It isn't Stephen Hawkings territory to know that faking an injury will give you a rest. It's just disgusting. If all 22 players were all blessed with Drogba's 'cleverness', sure we may as well pack up and start watching baseball.

Bubs101 wrote: »

As I've already said, I don't like the man, but I'd certainly consider him on a higher plane than Stevie G

What a lame argument. Drogba's not so bad, because this guy's worse? Can you address Drogba without reference to Stevie G?

dc69

DerKaiser wrote: »

Ok, 1. Drogba is not the worst diver in the world, Gerrard and Ronaldo are WAY worse, Drogba maybe 2-3 years ago, but he is playing honestly at this point in his career I'm sick of numpty muppets and their jealousy for the worlds greatest striker

Anyone who says Gerrard is a worse diver than Drogba needs to hit specsavers tbh.Drogba doesnt deserve to be allowed on a football pitch and showed his class last night when he faked an injury and got sent off,thus costing his team the CL

Also Torres is the worlds greatest striker.Drogba has at the most in 1 season scored chelski 33 goals in total but most seasons its 15,thats not the greatest striker in the world.

dublinario

I'm not surprised that Gerrard and Ronaldo's names are being pulled into this thread. I guess it was inevitable. I haven't tried to defend Gerrard once. I just think that, if your only defence of Drogba is "well...eh, these guys are eh...worse", that isn't really a defence in the first place. It's a comparison, but nothing like a defence.

dc69

dublinario wrote: »

I'm not surprised that Gerrard and Ronaldo's names are being pulled into this thread. I guess it was inevitable. I haven't tried to defend Gerrard once. I just think that, if your only defence of Drogba is "well...eh, these guys are eh...worse", that isn't really a defence in the first place. It's a comparison, but nothing like a defence.

Yeah but gerrards diving is rare enough,mabe once a match,drogba and ronaldo are ridiculous.

gucci

DerKaiser wrote: »

Ok, 1. Drogba is not the worst diver in the world, Gerrard and Ronaldo are WAY worse, Drogba maybe 2-3 years ago, but he is playing honestly at this point in his career I'm sick of numpty muppets and their jealousy for the worlds greatest striker

2. Benitez is a clown, not a great tactician who slandered Drogba as a way to psyche him out but it backfired on him and just focus the Ivorian more, Benitez is not only a bumbling cretin of a manager, who ignores all other competitons unsportingly in the hope that he'll get the same lucky wave he had in 2005, he has also shown how thick he is in the mind games arena

3. Drogba was more than entitled to celebrate his goal in front of Benitez as Lampard was in that glorius 4-1 at Anfield to Shhhh! the kop with his finger as Mourihno did, it's banter, and if you're too sensitive for this, I suggest you stop watching football mate, things could get ugly for you

Amazing post.......were you also the author of George W's dossier on Iraqs weapons of mass destruction?

DerKaiser

I've never read the sun and I don't have a horse of any height

Drogba is painted with the brush of his actions in seasons past, I admit that, but he has copped on big-time, to suggest he dives in every is totally exaggerational,

And Benitez did well to win honours with Valencia, but I have no respect for him since he came to england, Liverpool are still 4th team in england and the CL in '05 was a fluke, he does nothing for me whatsoever

Clouseau-esque almost

and btw pool fans calling ME sensationalist is a bit rich, stating that your team is good for a start

Jazzy

another thread about diving. oh how very interesting.

so im guessing that this will be full of "yeah i know everyone dives but the player on the team i support isnt as bad a diver as the player on the team you support" type comments. smashing.

the olympics is on in the summer boys. plenty of proper diving in that if ya want to get yer jollies

dublinario

Jazzy wrote: »

another thread about diving. oh how very interesting.

If you're not interested, why post? I think that makes less sense than adding to the glut of diving-related threads. In my defence, I started this thread specifically on the negative press Benitez had garnered for criticising Drogba's diving, versus the fulsome praise Drogba had garnered for playing a rare, clean game. Also, I haven't once resorted to "your team's diver is worse than mine".

gucci

DerKaiser wrote: »

Drogba is painted with the brush of his actions in seasons past, I admit that, but he has copped on big-time, to suggest he dives in every is totally exaggerational,

Ahhh faffing about waving your arms and falling on your arse every second time the ball is hoofed over your head is diving. He does that every game, because basically sometimes the team just hoof the ball aimlessly up to him,

DerKaiser wrote: »

And Benitez did well to win honours with Valencia, but I have no respect for him since he came to england, Liverpool are still 4th team in england and the CL in '05 was a fluke, he does nothing for me whatsoever

I think you'll find the '05 win wasnt a fluke, now that united won the Champions league on penalties, that means that Liverpools win in 2005 has been upgraded*


*Thats what i have been telling one of my man utd mates today,who spent the last 3years telling me what a fluke liverpools win was.

Jazzy

dublinario wrote: »

In my defence, I started this thread specifically on the negative press Benitez had garnered for criticising Drogba's diving, versus the fulsome praise Drogba had garnered for playing a rare, clean game.

i know, but ya see the press are very fickle like that and as pepe le fritz said, its like a pantomine. i dont really take all that sort of pre game talk seriously at all and if ppl do then bad things might happen... i.e - vidic saying drogba was a diver before last nites game and then poor old didier getting sent off for slapping him and thus not being able to take a penalty. then we all got to see john terry dive but the silly bugger only went and did that when he was taking a penalty... oh john.

Also, I haven't once resorted to "your team's diver is worse than mine".

yeah but other posters have

dublinario

DerKaiser wrote: »

And Benitez did well to win honours with Valencia, but I have no respect for him since he came to england, Liverpool are still 4th team in england and the CL in '05 was a fluke, he does nothing for me whatsoever

So that's it then? Case closed? Benitez has absolutely no talent as a coach, whatsoever? Because what, he fluked the CL in 05? Which part? Just the final, or all the teams on the way? Just the penos, or the three goal comeback? Or was the whole run a fluke? And what, 07 was lightening striking twice then, in getting to a second final?

If you peddle such nonsense down the pub, do your mates listen to you? If you don't rate Benitez, fine, but you don't enhance your debating credentials by portraying him as Roddy Collins. If he's wanting, fine. If he's lacking, ok. But he's clearly not as bad as your childishly making out. I think Ferguson is a brilliant manager, Wenger is in many ways a genius, and Grant is being very harshly treated by the press. If you can't talk about an opposition team's manager with even slight detachment and without thinly veiled hatred, what can you really add to any debate other than incitement to derail it?

Bubs101

dublinario wrote: »

If Grant had highlighted Gerrards antics, I think it would have been fair enough. I don't agree that silence was a high road, because it implies that calling a diver a diver is a low road.

Benitez wasn't so much calling a diver a diver but trying to influence the referee's decisions before the match. Alot of managers do it but it was an attempt at an underhand tactic that backfired massively.

dublinario wrote: »

That's a mental assertion. You're claiming that Drogba's diving is subtle? Well I (and practically every other non-Chelsea fan in the world) must all be mighty astute then to see through his brilliant charade. The reason he doesn't get sent off is because he goes down under minimal contact, rather than no contact. Doesn't make it any less reprehensible.

Well, the referees seem to fall for it quite alot and they are far more qualified than you and practically every other non-Chelsea fan in the world. Also, if he goes down under minimal contact than he's just assisting the referee by showing that a foul was commited. If anything he should be applauded for helping officials

dublinario wrote: »

Again, you have a pretty low standard of 'cleverness' if you regard Drogba's antics as being such. It isn't Stephen Hawkings territory to know that faking an injury will give you a rest. It's just disgusting. If all 22 players were all blessed with Drogba's 'cleverness', sure we may as well pack up and start watching baseball.

That's like saying if all 22 players were blessed with Drogba's skill and pace we'd see an amazing game. All players are different so I don't see your point there

dublinario wrote: »

What a lame argument. Drogba's not so bad, because this guy's worse? Can you address Drogba without reference to Stevie G?

Well what are we meant to say, Drogba doesn't dive? For the record, it's not a lame argument at all. If Rafa points out that Drogba is a diver and attacks his character because he believes it's bad for the game, not to give his team an advantage (according to him), he should do the same thing for Stevie G

dublinario

Bubs101 wrote: »

Benitez wasn't so much calling a diver a diver but trying to influence the referee's decisions before the match. Alot of managers do it but it was an attempt at an underhand tactic that backfired massively.

I largely agree with you on that Bubs. I just found it annoying that not one journalist had the balls to write a piece saying "he shouldn't need motivating to play fair". Is it a coincidence that one of his best ever games in a blue shirt was also one of his cleanest? Drogba's an oustanding talent: he has it in him to play at a world class level for 90 minutes, fairly.

Bubs101 wrote: »

Well, the referees seem to fall for it quite alot and they are far more qualified than you and practically every other non-Chelsea fan in the world.

You can't really believe this, can you? Surely you're just arguing now for argument's sake? If the referees are so qualified and adept at spotting diving, then I guess there's no such thing as diving. My mistake. Apologies for wasting everybody's time.

Bubs101 wrote: »

Also, if he goes down under minimal contact than he's just assisting the referee by showing that a foul was commited. If anything he should be applauded for helping officials

(Yawn). This is just getting silly. On what planet is 'minimal contact' synonymous with 'foul'? Last time I checked, football was a full-contact sport. 'Minimal contact' does not mean a foul. Perhaps you're thinking of badminton?

Bubs101 wrote: »

That's like saying if all 22 players were blessed with Drogba's skill and pace we'd see an amazing game. All players are different so I don't see your point there

Really? It's not a difficult point, but I'll replay it: you say Drogba's play-acting is 'clever', but if everybody was so 'clever' then we'd have 22 people play-acting and the game would be as stop-start as American Football. It would also be sh*t.

Bubs101 wrote: »

Well what are we meant to say, Drogba doesn't dive? For the record, it's not a lame argument at all.

No, it really is a lame argument Bubs. It's the "knives aren't dangerous, because guns are more dangerous" argument. It doesn't stack up. I'm debating Drogba here, and you (and others) are looking for an 'out' with Gerrard and Ronaldo. Start a Gerrard thread, and you won't find me doing the same. There's a better way to argue, but it takes a little more thought.

Bubs101

In fairness, if you want to debate whether Drogba is a diver it would be a very very short thread

DerKaiser

Come on! Drogba gets continually harrassed about diving, every team has divers, many way worse than Drogba, credit the man for what he is, a magnificent world class footballer and let's have less of your celery.

Man Utd beat a few teams convincingly to get to the final, pool only beat leverkussen convincingly in '05, that pool side were the most limited team to EVER win the champions league, but hey, if Greece can win the Euro championship then I suppose Liverpool can win the champions league.

dc69

DerKieser has in my eyes won the award for the stupidest person on boards.ie

Fluke?

3 finals in 4 years!

DerKaiser

Stupid? At least I can spell DerKaiser correctly, 3 fluked finals in 4 years, pool fans are blind and totally unobjective to a man, it was a pleasure to knock your arses out of the champions league and do it PROPERLY! No phantom goals, no penalty shoot outs, by scoring goals

Numpty ****ing moron

selpher

Can't argue with what Rafa did. Jose always did it. He wanted to influence the ref or keep drogba from diving and winning free kicks, either of which would be a plus. I just think if he said nothing then Drogba would've played like he did last night and we might not have got through.

dublinario

DerKaiser wrote: »

Come on! Drogba gets continually harrassed about diving, every team has divers, many way worse than Drogba, credit the man for what he is, a magnificent world class footballer and let's have less of your celery.

I've conceded several times in this thread that he's a brilliant player. He really is awesome. But I don't think there's many divers that would be "way worse" than Drogba, even if you feel he isn't thee worst. I think if you asked anybody to draft their top 5 premiership divers he'd probably be in there. Is that just because he's high profile? I don't think so. I think it would be a fair reflection of how much he dives and simulates injuries.

DerKaiser wrote: »

Man Utd beat a few teams convincingly to get to the final, pool only beat leverkussen convincingly in '05, that pool side were the most limited team to EVER win the champions league, but hey, if Greece can win the Euro championship then I suppose Liverpool can win the champions league.

I agree that it's definitely one of the most limited squads I can recall to win the champions league, when you consider we had Cisse and Smicer to come off the bench, Baros on the pitch, Kewell and Traore in the starting 11, Biscan in the squad, Nunez got caps along the way etc. Benitez' coaching qualities have been maligned in this thread, but surely that makes his achievement all the better?

As for not beating good teams along the way, we beat Monaco, Deportivo, Juventus and Chelsea to name a few. "Convincingly" is subjective. I'm not trying to flame you DerKaiser, but I can't understand how any sensible person wouldn't be embarrassed to still peddle the whole 'flukey run' theory after we repeated the feat in 2007? I didn't think 2005 was a 'flukey run' at the time, but when we got to the final again 2 years later? The jury's in. No fluke, just good tactics in Europe (as opposed to our muckness in the Premiership!)

dc69

DerKaiser wrote: »

Stupid? At least I can spell DerKaiser correctly, 3 fluked finals in 4 years, pool fans are blind and totally unobjective to a man, it was a pleasure to knock your arses out of the champions league and do it PROPERLY! No phantom goals, no penalty shoot outs, by scoring goals

Numpty ****ing moron

Why would I bother double checking your stupid german name,your posts are bad enough already.your so bitter you couldnt finish the job properly.With your hero captain bottling it.Dont take your frustrations out on Liverpool fans cause you werent good enough.We beat chelski in 2 of those finals,you make your own luck,fluke doesnt come into the equation when you do it 3 out of 4 years.

Feels good to have a cl trophy in the cabinet:p

You make me feel sick that I supported Chelski last night:(

Whats a numpty?

I think you mean bottlers i.e chelski lol

Enjoy your ban.

dublinario

DerKaiser wrote: »

Stupid? At least I can spell DerKaiser correctly

What a grievous error to not be able to spell "DerKaiser", rolling off the tongue as it does. You're starting to get hot under the collar DerKaiser if that's what you've resorted to.

DerKaiser

A numpty is an idiot

I'm sorry guys, pool are a very limited team and you were not convincing in your last three seasons, finals or no finals, under Houllier when you won the plastic treble you were so bloody boring and un technical in fact Liverpool have been pretty rubbish since around 1990, at least when you had your success in the '70s and '80s it was by playing decent football, but you can't tell Liverpool fans that, they don't listen, all they can do is attack the teams above them out of spite and jealousy

dublinario

DerKaiser wrote: »

I'm sorry guys, pool are a very limited team and you were not convincing in your last three seasons, finals or no finals, under Houllier when you won the plastic treble you were so bloody boring and un technical in fact Liverpool have been pretty rubbish since around 1990, at least when you had your success in the '70s and '80s it was by playing decent football, but you can't tell Liverpool fans that, they don't listen, all they can do is attack the teams above them out of spite and jealousy

I think we play better ball under Benitez than we did under Houllier, but I would accept that it still frequently isn't neutral-friendly. Our record in Europe under Benitez I think holds up well against the other 3 of the big 4, and I don't think it can be intelligently watered-down with cries of 'boring', no English team really dominates in Europe, through all the stages of the competition. Both Chelsea and UTD have had their troubles on the road in recent campaigns, and neither have been gung-ho either. Benitez is definitely successful at planning and strategising our European endeavours (although i would accept the criticism that we're usually out of the title race, and hence can focus on Europe).

dc69

Chelski's football is essentially the same style as Liverpools

Its funny when a chelski fan tells you,your team play boring football.

dublinario

dc69 wrote: »

Chelski's football is essentially the same style as Liverpools

Its funny when a chelski fan tells you,your team play boring football.

I'd have to agree with you dc69. I think Arsenal and UTD fans would have a solid platform from which to criticise Liverpool's football. Chelsea on the other hand, play some truly turgid stuff, and lost a brilliant manager (albeit on the whim of an oligarch) for that very reason.

dublinario

...the days of Duff and Robben bombing down either wing, terrorising opposition on the way to a comfortable 3 goal win seem a long time ago now. Then again, Chelsea did run UTD very close this season, so they're obviously doing something right.

DerKaiser

Come on! You can't compare pool with Chelsea, we are MUCH better to watch dude! You have physical power and that's it! We have that power and pace and technical nouse, check the league table if you've any questions

dublinario

The league table doesn't lie DerKaiser, true enough. I genuinely don't find Chelsea all that great to watch though. I think one of the differences between Liverpool and Chelsea is that, over the last few years, you look at the Liverpool squad and can kind of understand why we haven't been pretty to watch i.e., some awful players.

Chelsea don't have that excuse, yet their uber-expensive squad has played football that has paled in comparison to UTD and Arsenal. Let's take Liverpool out of the equation for a second DerKaiser: would you accept that Chelsea's football is (on average) nowhere as attractive as UTD or Arsenal's?