Irish DVB-T rollout plan

Hero Of College

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Generally speaking if you have Tg4 you have a UHF aerial and will not need to change it , some will need to change their aerials even if they have TG4 but only if the 'band' changes as it may . UHF is sub divided into bands a b c and d and a band d aerial may be crap at band a , etc etc.

If you do not have tg4 but do have rte1 and rte2 you probably only have a vhf aerial (a letter H shaped aerial ) so you need a uhf aerial too . In order to ensure that there are no 'band 'issues you should get a wideband uhf aerial like this

http://www.cdstv.co.uk/shop_details.asp?productID=60

it may help with weak tg4 reception too.

If you do have good tg4 you will simply need a box ( a receiver) costing under €100 by next year and simply plug the aerial into it , scan for channels and connect to tv with scart .

Thats great.....but do I run a length of coaxial from this new aerial and run it right into the TV or is a new box or something needed. Sorry to be such a noob. As it happens, I used get decent reception on RTE 1 and 2 and SHODDY reception on TG4, with almost NONE on TG4.

PS..can I split this digital signal or do I need two aerials for two teles etc?

Many thanks.

SPDUB

Sponge Bob wrote: »

costing under €100 by next year

Proof please

Sponge Bob

Hero Of College wrote: »

Thats great.....but do I run a length of coaxial from this new aerial and run it right into the TV or is a new box or something needed. Sorry to be such a noob. As it happens, I used get decent reception on RTE 1 and 2 and SHODDY reception on TG4, with almost NONE on TG4.

Sort out TG4 first and if you can't get someone to do it for you . Can't advise you better if we don't know where you are though , you appear to be in fringe main transmitter coverage not on a good relay :cool:

Trust me its important!! Relays will have no DTT out till 2013 in some cases where main transmitters will have it in 2009 .

watty

I agree with the Mighty Sponge.

And 2013 could be optimistic for some areas
13 TX = 77% households
44 TX = 90%
188 TX = 95%
last 5% need Satellite.

If you are in the 5% to 10% last covered

Sponge Bob

watty wrote: »

And 2013 could be optimistic for some areas

If you are in the 5% to 10% last covered

The "last 5%" should be told straight out that Sky is the only solution and that they can have digital TV today with Sky , never mind 2009 .

A minister with more cojones and principles than Ryan would be honest and
would insist that they get a special deal on a Sky sub ( linked with their TV licence ) seeing as his department will not supply digital TV, officially _forever_ it looks like right now .

He should also tell them their existing signal will be turned off in 5 years leaving them with nothing . Why should they pay a TV licence any more I ask myself ??

Ryan hopes he will get away with it, he won't of course and does not care anyway the smug south Dublin wood pellet peddler that he is

SPDUB

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Originally Posted by spudUladdie

Proof
Product Roadmaps under NDA stuff Just take my word for it that mpeg4 boxes will be in the shops for €100 presently , OK !!

Ta!

Your answer is very convincing when you felt the need to use personal insults.

Pity I expected more from you .

Sponge Bob

LOL

I signed the feckin NDA so thats all I can say . There is no evidence that the mpeg4 boxes will not be around for €100 by 2009 .

SPDUB

Sponge Bob wrote: »

LOL

I signed the feckin NDA so thats all I can say . There is no evidence that the mpeg4 boxes will not be around for €100 by 2009 .

So that gives you the right to insult someone .

Strange you managed to say the same information this time without resorting to insults

Sponge Bob

aw feckit I edited it out, I still told you nothing specific , OK !!!

bk

Lads, it is hardly surprising that there will be sub €100 DTT boxes by next year, it is the usual march of technology.

After all right now Roku/Netflix have launched a box for $99 that streams NetFlix movies in MPEG4.

So MPEG4 decoing costs are obviously dropping very fast.

Hero Of College

What boxes are you all using to watch these channels at the moment??

watty

People using a very wide range of USB modules, PCI cards, TVs with built in Digital and Set-boxes. Many are not fully compatible and will be less so in the future.

bk

You know, I was thinking, RTE could end up in big trouble with this new DTT service.

I assume that most people who currently get just analogue with 4 - 8 channels, will end up getting FreeSat. I wonder how many people won't even bother to get a DTT box? And of the ones who do, I wonder if they end up finding it too much hassle to switch to the DTT box, from the FreeSat box (specially if it is a DVR)?

Unless combo boxes come out, which are well integrated (EPG, etc.) and cheap, I think RTE could really be in trouble, they could end up losing lots of ratings.

Sponge Bob

bk wrote: »

Unless combo boxes come out, which are well integrated (EPG, etc.) and cheap, I think RTE could really be in trouble, they could end up losing lots of ratings.

You mean 2 or even 2 x 2 tuners , but both Sat and Terrestrial .

They have come out all right but are not cheap ( €500+) and do not yet support the freesat "extensions" to the normal DVB-S stream , or the MHEG5 DTT overlay which will be used here and in the UK ...but otherwise only in New Zealand despite efforts to make it ubuitous ( you like these links bk)

Therefore their usability as PVRs is qestionable.

As for future proofing , it is possible that DVB-T2 will be rolled out in the UK next year. Another new tuner to consider .

TheDriver

I would disagree with you as most will get a dtt box to watch rte channels on but I think the sub channels on dtt could be in trouble

bk wrote: »

You know, I was thinking, RTE could end up in big trouble with this new DTT service.

I assume that most people who currently get just analogue with 4 - 8 channels, will end up getting FreeSat. I wonder how many people won't even bother to get a DTT box? And of the ones who do, I wonder if they end up finding it too much hassle to switch to the DTT box, from the FreeSat box (specially if it is a DVR)?

Unless combo boxes come out, which are well integrated (EPG, etc.) and cheap, I think RTE could really be in trouble, they could end up losing lots of ratings.

KeRbDoG

TheDriver wrote: »

I would disagree with you as most will get a dtt box to watch rte channels on but I think the sub channels on dtt could be in trouble

I would hope that dual tuner STBs come out, dvb-s and dvb-t which would be fully compatible with RTEs mpeg compression.
The BBC's Freesat EPG is starting to be hacked around with and I would say that RTEs will be too when DTT is released and kablamo! yea have a nice box with free (after the box/disk/antenna) RTE/BBC/UTV/C4 and more with a full EPG - all with perfect signal
But for now, I would say most folks will bounce between a RTE DTT box and a FreeSat box.

bk

TheDriver wrote: »

I would disagree with you as most will get a dtt box to watch rte channels on but I think the sub channels on dtt could be in trouble

Yes, most will get DTT boxes, but there is also a good chance that many, if not most will also get FreeSat boxes and if they do, I can see many people surfing around the Freesat channels and not bothering to dig the DTT box remote from under the cushions.

Think about it from the point of view of Joe Soap, you have two boxes, DTT and Freesat with two remotes and two completely separate EPG's etc.

Your busily channel surfing around Freesat channels, BBC, ITV, C4, C5, etc. lots of quality channels, lots of quality TV, I could easily see a lot of these folk not bothering to pick up the DTT remote to see what is on RTE.

There is definitely a big danger there for RTE.

watty

Irish DTT EPG is just supposed to be ordinary MHEG5. Very standard.

Almost 70% get RTE already via Satellite, Cable, MMDS or IPTV. I don't see much danger.

bk

watty wrote: »

Almost 70% get RTE already via Satellite, Cable, MMDS or IPTV. I don't see much danger.

But how many of them will decide to stop wasting €30 per month and get most of the channels for free instead?

I'm not saying it will happen over night, but it is certainly a long term threat to RTE.

zilog_jones

bk wrote: »

Think about it from the point of view of Joe Soap, you have two boxes, DTT and Freesat with two remotes and two completely separate EPG's etc.

But people currently with Freesat/FTA boxes or (I feel sorry if anyone still puts up with this:) analogue MMDS need two remotes anyway. If one remote can control the TV's volume and standby (like the Sky and new UPC remotes), most people won't need the TV remote at all.

Zaphod

zilog_jones wrote: »

No mention of a DVR from them either

At launch, we will offer our customers the opportunity to purchase a premium dual tuner STB with a personal
video recorder (PVR). This will provide these additional premium services:
• Record a channel while watching another
• Pause/rewind live TV
• Provide access to a range of premium on demand content, generally known as push video on demand.82
OneVision will look to develop assistive services in innovative and novel ways. We are committed to working with
disability groups and content holders to launch television services that can utilise the functionality of PVRs. As
detailed in Section 3.5.1.j we will work with special interest groups and content holders to maximise the
availability of signed content. Content can be streamed overnight to users’ PVRs and be available for them to
view at their convenience. As we have also detailed in Section 3.5.1.j we will also be ensuring that our minimum
set top box specification comes with Audio Description facility enabled.
Section 3.5.1.j details the amount of content that is available for assistive services for each of the channels we
have in our proposed line up. OneVision is committed to using this content with the DTT / PVR technology and
making it available to the people who can benefit most from it.

bk wrote: »

I'm surprised no mention of HD, Sky and UPC will almost definitely be selling HD big time by 2009

There is a section on HD in each of the three application documents. Mostly vague hand-waving.

bk

zilog_jones wrote: »

But people currently with Freesat/FTA boxes or (I feel sorry if anyone still puts up with this:) analogue MMDS need two remotes anyway. If one remote can control the TV's volume and standby (like the Sky and new UPC remotes), most people won't need the TV remote at all.

But that is my point, I'm not on about the TV remote, people who get BBC FreeSat and DTT, will need two remotes, one remote for the BBC FreeSat and a second remote for the DTT FTA box and potentially a third remote for the TV volume and to switch the sources (from the DTT box scart/hdmi input to the FreeSat box scart/HDMI input).

But it is more then even that, it is also two completely different EPG's and two completely different interfaces and two different locations for the recorded shows.

I can just see it being confusing for Joe Soap and many just ending up sticking on the FreeSat box most of the time, because of the hassle changing to the DTT box.

zilog_jones

bk wrote: »

But that is my point, I'm not on about the TV remote

But for the situations I listed they'd previously be using their TV remote for the RTÉ channels, so if one of the STB remotes could control the TV it's not any increase/decrease than before.

Actually, can HDMI do switching signals like SCART?

I can just see it being confusing for Joe Soap and many just ending up sticking on the FreeSat box most of the time, because of the hassle changing to the DTT box.

I question how educated the vast majority of Joe Soaps regarding satellite TV and how there's FTA stuff and Freesat and all that. I've come across a lot of people who don't know the difference between cable, MMDS and Sky, never mind the free alternatives. I can see a lot of people going with the DTT subscription services either from MMDS or nothing because they don't know any better. And then there's the many people who can't install a dish for whatever reason (rented accomodation etc.) or don't like the thought of it.

I can't see a lot of people adopting a DTT/Freesat combination or if there'll be much of a market for a combo box, then again I've never lived in a UK analogue fringe reception area so haven't a clue what they'd be willing to put up with. If MMDS goes and UPC get their arse in gear regarding better encryption, things may get interesting.

scath

Oireachtas TV, yes is being broadcasted on the DTT trial. Currently encrypted. It will be on the DTT RTE PSB mux free-to-air along with the Irish Film Channel. Oireachtas TV will be a public service broadcaster itself once the Broadcasting Bill 2008 is enacted in the next few months. Take at the docs there to see what the 3 are proposing by way of charges barnicles.

Mullighanish= Quarter 3, 2009. Same all 3 bidders. See: http://www.bci.ie/DTT/easy_tv/append1_tech.pdf, save and rotate counterclockwise.

By September 2009 that would appear to be watchable via set top box (MPEG4 only) and usb+aerial on your laptop.

barnicles wrote: »

Any body know when dtt is coming to Mullighanish.

Also is Oireachtas TV on DTT

Antenna

scath wrote: »

and usb+aerial on your laptop.

the percentage of people nationwide that will have acceptable DTT reception with an indoor aerial (including a USB stick) is very small.
For most people DTT reception on an indoor aerial will be either nill, or unstable or very prone to breakup from people walking about, vehicles outside (if on ground floor) etc

a lot of people here seem to have success with DTT reception with indoor aerials in Dublin, but bear in mind the transmission power in Dublin is fairly substantial for what is a relatively small geographic area with mostly flat terrain, - this will not be the case elsewhere in the country.

turly

Quite a few of the recently-launched TV sets are available with dual MPEG-2 DVB-T and MPEG-4 tuners (Sony W4000 series, Philips 9603/7603 series).

Mind you, I'm fully expecting that these MPEG-4 tuners will be somehow different to those required by the Irish DVB system.
Different in a way that will cost money to fix :-)

parasite

scath wrote: »

Mullighanish= Quarter 3, 2009.

Hopefully that's a worst case scenario and it'll be trialled long before that ...

parasite

parasite wrote: »

Hopefully that's a worst case scenario and it'll be trialled long before that ...

I know the feeling, was living in Dublin up to last month and miss the simplicity and clarity of the DTT signal. Back to using snowy analogue at the moment as the house I'm in has no roof antenna (the previous owner had Sky). So I'm getting the UK terrestrials clearer than our own ones!

GerardKeating

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You can see Clare from that area but not Maghera I don't think , there is no TV3 out there Gerard unless you have some mondo cable stayed aerial with amplification too I would think.

The Casla relay was built in the mid 1990s to deal with grave limitations on the Maghera UHF signal in South Connemara , TG4 was imminent you see .

Casla was one of the last relay RTE ever built in fact

Will be moving in about two weeks, but should find out for myself, but do you know if one would need a outdoor or roof aerial for reception from Casla, or would an indoor aerial gvie a good signal.

lucernarian

The allocations for Maghera are bizarre. Very top of UHF band, with rather hilly terrain in its service area.