Computer Science or Computing in DIT

Eccentric Toast

I know both courses have things im interested in but i dont know which is better for me. A friend who does Computing and he says its less theory than Computer Science.

Im interest in computer Languages, programming and games development and from what the computer science info page says its my better choice, but im looking for opinions from people who actually do the courses.

Any info would be appreciated

Creamy Goodness

i don't know much about DT211 but looking at the course outline here http://www.dit.ie/DIT/study/undergraduate/programmes08/dt211.html Games Programming comes under an optional module in 4th year.

dt211 also focuses a lot on networks where you have intro to networking in year 1, networking 1 and 2 in year 2.

looking at that list there are a few modules i wish were in dt228, mainly how to build a pc (straight A as building a pc is like expensive lego), Practical Programming and Databases - something dt228 doesn't do is teach practical programming you get the basics and that's it also mixing in databases there is good as databases are fecking everywhere these days and i don't see them not being around in the long term.

i'll focus more on what i do actually know now. i'm currently in third year (technically as i'm still on 6 month work placement).

dt228 was a bit of a mess when i joined it, first year was way too easy basically you turned up for lectures you passed, and in one module you wrote a word letter and a invoice in excel and you got an A.

second year was extremely tough but they restructure the whole computer science course meaning that instead of having 14 subjects in second year for the full year, we had 6 and 6 each semester. this did lead to some people in the class being "like wtf? they are going way too fast and covering too much", they were right, lecturers were cramming in 2 semesters into one. it was painful.

now onto what i like about the course - don't want to be too negetive .

year 1 as described here http://www.comp.dit.ie/dt228/yr1.html is much more structure and tailored to new students.

i'll give you some comments on the first year courses and if ya want more on 2nd or 3rd year just say.

programming
you program in C which believe you mean will mean a **** load when you go out into the work place, in C you have pretty much full control over the PC but you aren't taught how to fully harness this power and it's pretty much left up to yourself to do that yourself which is too right. C is one of the fundamental languages and really kicks you into shape as a programmer.

problem solving
is a good module that uses general programming techniques that you'll learn from programming module but doesn't really focus on the language, more so on how to break a big problem into several tiny problems and fix them all and then gel them back together again.

algorithmic design
i think this module is tied in with problem solving, it was when i done the course, anyone who's in first/second year confirm that this is a separate subject now?

computer architecture and technology
the best way to sum up this course is the following: there is a full one hour lecture on what happens when you left-click your mouse.

operating system
so wish i had this in first year, it's by far my favourite module and i only had it for a semester. in this you'll learn all about different OS' but mainly it's a windows vs unix course that goes into the advantages and disadvantages of each and some of their key features, like disk fragmentation, deadlock, kernal etc. the labs is why i enjoyed this so much, you get to start shell scripting which for some reason i just shone to and currently on my work placement(i'll talk about this more in a moment) it's basically what i'm doing.

intro to databases
this will make you familar with databases, not so much how to use them in every day situations but well enough to understand what they are about and why we need them, also will teach you how to properly design a database. i didn't have this course in first year so maybe someone that did can explain what was actually covered, but i'm assuming it was the entity relationship model, MS access and slight bit of SQL.

web development 1
this will tell you all you need to know about making a html page with a bosco image on it, that's pretty much all i learned from it. you'll cover the standards like (x)html and css, then in the next years progress onto javascript and server side scripting like php.

mathematics
basically will teach you the principles about 1's and 0's which are at the heart of a computer. you'll also learn some simple encryption techniques but nothing too strenous.

communications and personal development
this was just communications when i done it so maybe someone can tell ya what the personal development part is, but basically this just boiled down to writing a business lettter to complain about something and a 15 minute presentation with 2 others of your class on a topic of your choice. this is where i had the funniest time in college ever. let's just say someone done a presentation on google, used a google april fools joke as fact, cue the lecture being fascinated (wasn't a computer lecturer), cue me bursting my **** laughing so much the presentation was interupted more than once.

business
this wasn't on the year 1 course for me, so maybe someone else can enlighten you to what that is.

i won't go through the rest of the years for dt228 but will mention some things about 3rd year as that's when it gets interesting (in terms of streams)

in third year you have to pick two streams from three.

• Computer Systems Administration
• Software knowledge engineering
• Games programming

this is where dt228 excels over dt211 imo, and would suit you to a T especially as you mentioned games programming in your post.

since games is only an option in 4th year of dt211 it means that it will only be a module if there's interest, if there's no interest, there's no games.

whereas in dt228, it's a fully fledged stream for 3rd year and 4th year.

in the second semester you have the choice of staying in college and doing more modules and a group project, or you can go out and do work placement. I was very lucky with my placement and got a good one, but some of the company names on dit list of places of work placement is impressive: google, cisco, ericsson, leo pharma, aig, ebs, esb, local governments and with oppurtunities to go to new york or china. everyone i've spoke to that done work placement is loving it, and are dreading go back to college mainly missing the money part .

in dt211 they have a similar but far more inferior work placement scheme (in my opinion of course) you work 2 days per week and continue on doing college the other 3 days.

this is a major disadvantage in my books tbh because you're not seen as a great asset to your employer, think about it, you're there for two days, then you're gone for five then back. it would be very hard for managers to give you a role in a project.

well that's my views so far of dt228 computer science, i haven't read over the long post so many things i said may be wrong especially on dt211 as i haven't done that course so the facts could be skewed and i'm sure someone will be on from dt211 to give you the flip side of the coin.

any more question just fire away.

Creamy Goodness

the course is filled to the max number of spots in first year think it's 70 or 80. but that drops rapidly. sure two guys who were sitting beside me at the induction got up and left as soon as they heard maths was on the course.

i know nothing about DT354 as it's an aungier street course. but i see they do object based programming in first year, i find that a little strange as i feel you need to have a good understanding of the basics of structural programming before you move on to the object orientated stuff, but that's probably just me.

it's kind of hard to describe my role in work placement as i'm doing several things, i suppose a support tools designer or something along that line. i'm mainly using Perl for the automation but also need a good understanding of C++ as i do have to look through designers code a bit.

one of them includes the automation of creating statistics on faults found in designers code.

another thing would be creating a web interface program that allows people to create a sort of to-do list for specific areas of the company which sends out automatic emails to the people who are responsible for said to-do item.

also the setting up and configuration of a linux server to host some web apps etc.

creating a inhouse competition web page to test the designers knowledge of good programming practices.

one of the great things about my work placement (and i don't know if anyone elses is like this) but i'm actually treated as an employee, i'm given duties that regular employees have to do and also attend a lot of meeting with high ups and they actually value your opinion. one thing i can tell you is that i was really surprised at this because i've had other IT jobs before where i was asked for my opinion only to have it thrown back in my face only for the company to come back two years later saying you were right please come back. *raises middle finger* and it also beats other jobs i've had like warehouse distribution manager where you're basically treated like ****e by your superiors.

Eccentric Toast

Thanks Cremo i think youve secured my decision in Computer Science.
Great info thanks again

also one more question i just finished a 1 year FETAC course on Computers, what are the chances of a FETAC student getting in compared to a LC student do you know?

Creamy Goodness

Eccentric Toast wrote: »

Thanks Cremo i think youve secured my decision in Computer Science.
Great info thanks again

also one more question i just finished a 1 year FETAC course on Computers, what are the chances of a FETAC student getting in compared to a LC student do you know?

i wish i could answer that, but i haven't a clue sorry.

perhaps someone else might enlighten us both.

Stench Blossoms

Eccentric Toast wrote: »

Thanks Cremo i think youve secured my decision in Computer Science.
Great info thanks again

also one more question i just finished a 1 year FETAC course on Computers, what are the chances of a FETAC student getting in compared to a LC student do you know?

You'd have a better chance of getting in but with you'd still have to start in first year.

projectmayhem

Eccentric Toast wrote: »

Thanks Cremo i think youve secured my decision in Computer Science.
Great info thanks again

also one more question i just finished a 1 year FETAC course on Computers, what are the chances of a FETAC student getting in compared to a LC student do you know?

some FETAC places have direct entry to DIT upon course completion. you can apply directly to the college but you probably won't be granted advanced entry into 2nd year

Naikon

Eccentric Toast wrote: »

I know both courses have things im interested in but i dont know which is better for me. A friend who does Computing and he says its less theory than Computer Science.

Im interest in computer Languages, programming and games development and from what the computer science info page says its my better choice, but im looking for opinions from people who actually do the courses.

Any info would be appreciated

I am going to have to agree with the general consensus here.
Just finished DT211 year 1 here, and from the outset, some aspects of course just seems a bit of a mess.

I still don't know how I am assessed in two of my modules, and feedback is almost non-existent in terms of assesments/CA.
Networking sounds nice in theory, but it is really just the CCNA stuff stretched over three years. The CCNA can be done intensively in a few months.
From looking at the "mentor" page for dt228, it's shocking how much more "organized" the overall course structure/delivery looks. Though I can't say for definite though as I am not in 228. The DT211 handbook still hasn't been updated to include the fact you learn C in first year, and not Pascal as usually mentioned.

I should also note, that you read the handbook very carefully on how assessments are carried out, I just found some time back that in one or two subjects, such as programming, the results you achieve in the CA part aren't included in your final result. There were instances were lecturers weren't following the assessment criteria exactly as stated in the handbook either. I found the actual content of most modules is interesting, it just seems the delivery is a bit messy. There are no lectures till February after Christmas just to note, so the course feels a bit rushed from this period onwards.

I am rambling on here, but from my experience this year, coupled with the fact I am considering a transfer to 228/moving college , I would pick DT228.
I asked this very question last year, and I made a mistake:(
Best of luck to you.

Naikon

projectmayhem wrote: »

some FETAC places have direct entry to DIT upon course completion. you can apply directly to the college but you probably won't be granted advanced entry into 2nd year

Advanced entry is probably a better bet, I say this because there are 5 places for each course if you take the level 5 route.
You also need 5 distinctions minimum to be even considered for entry on a level 5 basis. Not easy as a mate of mine found out.

With advanced entry, a two year FETAC cert is equivalent to a higher certificate.
Therefore, the place restriction doesen't really apply with advanced entry, at least
not to the same degree as level 5.

I reckon the best method of securing a place, is to complete the FETAC level 5 course, and if you are not successful through
the CAO, simply spend an extra year to obtain the level 6 cert, where you wil most likely be accepted due
to the fact that DIT offer you places in second year based on your direct application to the college...not the CAO.

Irishtrekkie

I had a BTEC cert , differant but simliar to FETAC level 6 i think, i know that helped me get in as i put it down on my CAO , And i was offered a place in DT/228 (i applyed for first year ) , before the CAO places where given out.

Eccentric Toast

I got my FETAC results finally and just some more help would be appreciated it was a LV5 course on Network and Computer Maintenance CCNMX
i got 5 Distinctions, 3 Merits and 1 Pass and was wondering is this enough to get me even considered for this course.

Creamy Goodness

Congrats first of all.

second of all, whether you get into the course is based solely on the dicussion of the school of computing, they don't have a set in stone amount of distinctions/merits/passes etc.

you'll need to get in contact with them me thinks.

Spunge

I got into the computing course last year with a lvl 5 cert in computer programming (CITXX i think).

I think they have some places reserved for lvl 5 fetac people.
On the dit website it said i needed 5 distinctions including 1 in programming and 1 in computer architecture, i think thats the offical requirments but you may be able to get in otherwise, id say email the course heads and ask.

heres the dit info for fetac requirments. even if you dont have the specific modules you should e-mail them as you might be able to get in anyway.

http://www.dit.ie/study/undergraduate/fetac/

BaRcOe

First of all thanks to Cremo as your post really gave me a good insight to what 228 is all about.

I have 228 down as my number 1 choice because I have liked the sound of it since last year. I'm mad into computers, Ive opened my pc many times, changing things, looking around..etc.

The thing is, some of my friends also have this down on their Cao but its not their 1st choice. I know they're only using it as a course to fall back on if 1st choice isnt granted and heres me, trying to scrape over the points required for what has been a low points entry requirement course, 228.
Thats why numbers drop rapidly in this course, Cremo, because they're people that have no true passion for computers and lost out on their original course by 10 points.

I want to know what goes on behind the scenes at Ebay and Google.
If I miss it by 10 points and someone else just falls into it as a 3rd choice, its me who should really be in that chair.

I know Sh** happens.

there just my thoughts and opinions

FreeOSCAR

BaRcOe wrote: »

First of all thanks to Cremo as your post really gave me a good insight to what 228 is all about.

I have 228 down as my number 1 choice because I have liked the sound of it since last year. I'm mad into computers, Ive opened my pc many times, changing things, looking around..etc.

The thing is, some of my friends also have this down on their Cao but its not their 1st choice. I know they're only using it as a course to fall back on if 1st choice isnt granted and heres me, trying to scrape over the points required for what has been a low points entry requirement course, 228.
Thats why numbers drop rapidly in this course, Cremo, because they're people that have no true passion for computers and lost out on their original course by 10 points.

I want to know what goes on behind the scenes at Ebay and Google.
If I miss it by 10 points and someone else just falls into it as a 3rd choice, its me who should really be in that chair.

I know Sh** happens.

there just my thoughts and opinions

Good Luck on Wednesday, im sure you will be fine

Creamy Goodness

That happens man, it's the thing that's really ****ty about the whole points system. i really wish there was another system in place but there's not. It happens in every course people are there but don't want to be and it leave genunine people out of the course.

Try not to worry about it, i'm sure you'll do fine, and if not, there's always ways into the course due to the hundred's of FETAC courses around. So what if it means another year in college, imo i'd look it at another year of learning.

DIT is the right choice - even though i am a fairly harsh critic of it sometimes - and when you get to third year you will have the chance to find out what goes on at google or many other cool companies that are in the IT sector.

Best of luck and hope ya enjoy the course \o/

ohh and 84x is the bus to get in the mornings

BaRcOe

Fetac Entry requirements for DT228

5 Distinctions which must include C20012 and C20013

Can someone link me up/ explain?

Irishtrekkie

have to agree with the points system itself is a pain in the a*s.

and yes you see alot of people in the course who got the points to get
in , but relize its not what they wanted or just dont put the effort in
and disapear over the year, which is a shame.

but yea good luck BaRcOe tell us if you get into the course.

BaRcOe

I got 260. I'm delighted.

Got the over the requirement for Maths, I got a B3

Irish(higher level)- D1
English(higher level)- C1
Maths(ord)- B3
Geography(higher)- D1
French (ordinary)- C1
Tech Drawing(ord)- D1
I failed Business(higher).

Does my grade E in business affect the requirements?

So this course dropped to 210 last year on 2nd round.

Am I likely to get a place now with my 260, as it was my 1st choice?

Is it next Monday onwards places start getting offered? When will I find out?

I was just on Qualifax and seen the number of palces in this course has dropped down to 70?
Last time I looked it was 80. why has this changed? hmm

Irishtrekkie

You need to relax man , 260 is very good , and considering the points for the course has been going down every year , cause they cant get enough people to join the course.
i say the poinst will be around 210-250 again this year, the fact that its your first choice means you should get in hopefully , business will not in any way effect getting in , lol we do business in first year
(its not big part to be honest , most people just like to do enough to get a decent grade , it was easy enough last year, more so if you have done business before like i have) and they do not care if you have done it before or not

And hmm Qualifax might be wrong i dont see why they numbers would go down, and i think there where 83-85 people actually in the course at the start of last year , but that number droped fast enough.

Creamy Goodness

BaRcOe wrote: »

I got 260. I'm delighted.

Got the over the requirement for Maths, I got a B3

congrats, on getting what you needed, say goodbye to ****ty education forever.

BaRcOe wrote: »

Does my grade E in business affect the requirements?

no, buisness is for suckers :P

BaRcOe wrote: »

Is it next Monday onwards places start getting offered? When will I find out?

think you can accept offers from 6am on monday, yes.

BaRcOe wrote: »

I was just on Qualifax and seen the number of palces in this course has dropped down to 70?
Last time I looked it was 80. why has this changed? hmm

Qualifax probably haven't a clue, there should be no reason for that to change, ring the school of computing though just to be on the safe side.

again congrats, now get off the internet and celebrate your results and leaving school forever \o/

Irishtrekkie

" say goodbye to ****ty education forever. "


lol agreed , what a great country we live in , i mean there is still not a computer subject on the leaving cert , way to help people get ready for college.

Naikon

Irishtrekkie wrote: »

" say goodbye to ****ty education forever. "


lol agreed , what a great country we live in , i mean there is still not a computer subject on the leaving cert , way to help people get ready for college.

"Education" it is:rolleyes:

I chuckle when I read articles about this country described as an 'high tech workforce/society'.
To the 600 pointers...well done. Now get back to flipping those burgers:p
Hell, since starting an IT job/College, LC results have not been
mentioned even once. So ****ing overhyped these exams are.

BaRcOe. well done. You've passed the worst part....believe me.
Now GTFO from boards and go enjoy yourself.

Irishtrekkie

I think the fact that the LC is just a joke , is the reasons why computer sci , courses have just a big drop out rate , people dont do anything to do with computing for their LC , and have no idea what is about , then find out they dont like it , also i would think if there was a computing subject on the LC , alot more people might see that they like it, and not think of it as this super hard ot nerdy thing to do (says the guy with the star trekk name ) , and we would get higher numbers to do these courses. Oh well i am not minister for education

yoyo

Irishtrekkie wrote: »

I think the fact that the LC is just a joke , is the reasons why computer sci , courses have just a big drop out rate , people dont do anything to do with computing for their LC , and have no idea what is about , then find out they dont like it , also i would think if there was a computing subject on the LC , alot more people might see that they like it, and not think of it as this super hard ot nerdy thing to do (says the guy with the star trekk name ) , and we would get higher numbers to do these courses. Oh well i am not minister for education

Agree totally, at the start of first year, there were people in the course who didn't understand how to do a ALT-CTRL-DEL to login to the system, no joke, and they were doing computer science, didnt last too long :P, the leaving definately needs some sort of computer module, like its more important these days than half the subjects in the lc course

Nick

Irishtrekkie

yoyo wrote: »

Agree totally, at the start of first year, there were people in the course who didn't understand how to do a ALT-CTRL-DEL to login to the system, no joke, and they were doing computer science, didnt last too long :P, the leaving definately needs some sort of computer module, like its more important these days than half the subjects in the lc course

Nick

Well yea, i dont mind if they dont know anything ,once they are willing to put the effort in, but it seems alot of people end up getting embrassed cause you will have people in the class who will know alot more or whatever,

i mean i guess i might know some more stuff about certain subjects on my course since i finished course before i came to dit , so i have no probleming helping out people in my class , but it works both ways , luckly i have a good groups of friends and was able to get help with my maths and borrow some notes (the only way i passed). I mean i dont think you can get throught college without a little help along the way.

just feel sorry for those people doing the course who at the start dont say anything to other people in the class or the lectucters and fall behind and then leave course , as the one thing Ireland seems to need now as we are all being told people in I.T. and computering.

Its also annoying cause its really never too late , i know people who failed christmas exams and it was a wake up call to hit the grinds and they then do brilliant at summer exams. Sorry for the rant lol , i guess it just i dont mind if computer sci , is not for everyone , just wish the goverment would do more so people have some idea what its about , and also hate seeing people wasting their time in college (you can kinda see why there is talk of bringing back fees ( they better not ).

FreeOSCAR

Yeh why in the name of god isnt Computing a subject thought in the Leaving Cert? Because most schools dont have enough money to buy 30pcs never mind 100 whilst other schools could afford lots more. Thats why I think so anyways.

Irishtrekkie

FreeOSCAR wrote: »

Yeh why in the name of god isnt Computing a subject thought in the Leaving Cert? Because most schools dont have enough money to buy 30pcs never mind 100 whilst other schools could afford lots more. Thats why I think so anyways.

well my school had about 60 pcs , they where a public school so it was not like we are super posh or full of money. and they did let us all do training and get a free ECDL , which was nice considering they cost money to do in a proper test centre. And i dont know , i sure you would be able to do a computer related subject with 20 pcs in a school , if the goverment gave them money. oh well

FreeOSCAR

Irishtrekkie you mentioned you were in the gamesoc, is it just PC lan sessions that you have or do you play with consoles aswell? And by consoles I mean the 360 and PS3 not the Wii.

Irishtrekkie

FreeOSCAR wrote: »

Irishtrekkie you mentioned you were in the gamesoc, is it just PC lan sessions that you have or do you play with consoles aswell? And by consoles I mean the 360 and PS3 not the Wii.

well yes we play anything and everything in gamesoc, we had a halo 3 tournment in the xbox live centre last year but they moved . we also had a guitar hero 3 and street fighter competitions in D.I.T . , and yes we have alot of pc heads ( i know i am one ) , so we pay for out members when they go to the 3 days lans ( they are great fun , but you wont get alot of sleep).
i know some of these lans ( like gamecon) have xbox sections .

Kevin street should also being getting a fair few xbox 360s for an xna lab this year, we have been talking to lecturers about being able to use these after college hours for events.

Gamesoc is not just about playing games but also learning stuff about the game industry , we had guys doing robocode and xna last year, and dare to be digital, and also keep our members uptodate on stuff the gamedevelopers.ie are doing.

i know long winded answer, but yes we play consoles too.

FreeOSCAR

Well two other guys and myself actually came 1rst in that robocode competition two years ago and we were down there with you guys in March aswell. Was a good laugh. Yeh we get to use the game lab this year (I heard they were putting it in Aungier St). I might enroll in September although Ill be on Work Exp for half the year so Ill see. Would like to have a few LAN games in college. Cheers.