Which Monitors?

sei046

Well yes and no. A lot of monitors out at the minute are just hifi as far as im concerned. BUT dont buy something on that premise anyway, Save for the best within possible reach

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

I mix through a hi-fi stereo. I'm guessing ANYTHING I buy would be better than what i currently have, yes?

Not necessarily!

In my experience lower end monitors are 'monitors' in name only - cheap components and amps probably used in the HiFis too.

If you've a workable hifi set up at the moment soldier on and save your beans till you can make a decent leap up the ladder.

4 or 500 quid yokes probably won't improve anything.

TelePaul

PaulBrewer wrote: »

4 or 500 quid yokes probably won't improve anything.

Jesus really? Wow. I trawl through auctions for old home stereo units - you know the ones with two tape decks, CD player and with the vinyl resting on top? They generally come with some nice big speakers too.

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

Jesus really? Wow. I trawl through auctions for old home stereo units - you know the ones with two tape decks, CD player and with the vinyl resting on top? They generally come with some nice big speakers too.

My point is - If you have a workable system at the moment why bother making any changes unless they are productive ones?

'Big' monitors don't necessarily mean better!

Doctor J

My first foray into monitors was a set of active Alesis M1 MkII. The difference was astonishing, night and day over a set of hi-fi speakers. Now I'm using a set of Adam A7 and, again, there is a definite step up in quality.

Not everyone can afford to blow a grand or two on monitors and there are decent monitors out there for reasonable money which can be a step up for people with basic home studios. If a fella is talking about buying a used set of M1's then it's clear his budget is about €200 and surely responses should take that into consideration? Maybe, in time, he might go for something a lot better but, for the moment, suggesting monitors over a grand isn't helping the guy.

Sometimes I think this forum gets a little blurred between ideal world and real world. People have to start somewhere and what posters are actually looking for sometimes gets brushed aside, yeah some good recommendations of good gear, but a bit too far beyond what's relevant to what the guy is asking about.

Not directed at anyone, just based on observations over a period of time. It's great there are so many helpful responses but there are people operating on tight budgets, suggesting what's best within their means can be more helpful than just what is best.

TelePaul

PaulBrewer wrote: »

'Big' monitors don't necessarily mean better!

Oh yeah, I get that. Cheers.

condra

I got a pair of Event TR6 from Musicstore for 400 quid. I'm extremely pleased with them and would reccommend them whole-heartedly.

I suspect that coming from hi-fi speakers, you would notice a distinct difference IMO.

The KRK and Samson Rubicon monitors also seem to be popular in that sort of price range.

You often see M1 mkII monitors for decent prices on adverts/b+s. They have a good name for their price range.

Personally, I don't subscribe to NS-10 hype and have no interest in them.

sei046

But its really important that people realise that small small steps in a particular area can be very expensive

seannash

sei046 wrote: »

But its really important that people realise that small small steps in a particular area can be very expensive

yes progressively buying better and better will ultimately cost you more in the long run.

Doctor J

In my experience the biggest step up was the leap from hi-fi to real monitor. Bear in mind your average home hi-fi isn't designed to sound accurate, it's designed to sound like a pumpin' disco in your sitting room. A lot of people aren't going to buy progressively better and better, they just want something better than home hi-fi and they can do that without missing a mortgage payment.

teamdresch

Focal Solo6. Best buy I ever made by a long,long,long distance.

Doctor J

And about €1400 over the OP's budget.

sei046

I reccomend second hand so. Just try and get the best possible value you can

seannash

sei046 wrote: »

I reccomend second hand so. Just try and get the best possible value you can

yep thats how i got my genelecs.they were mint condition too but got them considerably cheaper.
go ebay:D

teamdresch

Doctor J wrote: »

And about €1400 over the OP's budget.

Yes, and you'll find I wasn't the first to talk about monitors outside of the budget.

frobisher

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Not necessarily!

In my experience lower end monitors are 'monitors' in name only - cheap components and amps probably used in the HiFis too.

If you've a workable hifi set up at the moment soldier on and save your beans till you can make a decent leap up the ladder.

4 or 500 quid yokes probably won't improve anything.

Huh?! 400 or 500 won't improve anything? Of all the "expensive gear or die" posts you've made that has to be one of the ones I disagree with most. I'd strongly suggest anyone thinking of upgrading their monitoring to ignore that advice. Obviously it depends on what your hifi system is, but €400 or €500 can undoubtedly offer a large improvement on the average hifi and if you go used can offer a huge improvement.

sei046

Actually Paul you can get a set of NS10s for less than that and they would be an awful lot more useful than your average HIfi speaker

PaulBrewer

frobisher wrote: »

Huh?! 400 or 500 won't improve anything? Of all the "expensive gear or die" posts you've made that has to be one of the ones I disagree with most. I'd strongly suggest anyone thinking of upgrading their monitoring to ignore that advice. Obviously it depends on what your hifi system is, but €400 or €500 can undoubtedly offer a large improvement on the average hifi and if you go used can offer a huge improvement.

Ah Frobizzle I expected better from you - You do me, and yourself a disservice.

"expensive gear or die" me arse! I've never said that and by putting in in quotations implies I did.

Good gear or die, perhaps - I am the man after all who advocates a heap of 57s for drums after all - so it's GOOD gear, it's just unfortunate a lot of it is expensive.

400 Euro inc Vat - What new pair powered monitor sounds good for that money? Tell me, I want to sell them?

Anything I've heard in that bracket gives you fizzy top, a dipped midrange, 'one note' ported bass cabs that muck up the low end and amps that crap out at any decent volume? You can get that from any decent Hi - Fi ! (don't skip over the 'decent' )


I have a wee Sony Midi Hi Fi rig that's grand, 279 Euro in Xtra Vision
The top ends reasonable, the mid isn't too dipped and there's passable bass.

Criticize me by all means, but I'll only accept it on what I actually said.

With your experience I expected better ....

( Now I think of it where IS that Sony Hi-Fi??)

PaulBrewer

sei046 wrote: »

Actually Paul you can get a set of NS10s for less than that and they would be an awful lot more useful than your average HIfi speaker

Please read my post from the 23rd below ....


"The big problem in cheap ones usually is the 'Bum- Tiss' issue i.e overemphasized low end to make the box sound 'bigger' (bum) and over emphasized top end to sound 'shiny' (Tiss) - you're left completely clueless about what you're hearing!

Some of the worst dogs I've tried are by Alesis and Tannoy. (Both brands I can sell!)

Maybe track down a secondhand pair of NS10Ms on Ebay? They will, without a shadow of a doubt, blow out any new competition in that price range."

Lads you're killin me ....

sei046

Ah Paul will you relax! I was referring backing you up when Fro questioned the sub 400 euro comment.

PaulBrewer

sei046 wrote: »

Ah Paul will you relax! I was referring backing you up when Fro questioned the sub 400 euro comment.

How can I relax?, there's fizzy top and muddy bass all over the gaff!:p

sei046

OR! Auralex!

PaulBrewer

sei046 wrote: »

OR! Auralex!

That might help ok!

PaulBrewer

teamdresch wrote: »

Focal Solo6. Best buy I ever made by a long,long,long distance.

There's a dealer friend of mine who swears by Focals. What sort of 'flavour' are they? Are the similar to any other brand?

sei046

I know of them but not much about them. Remember reading good stuff about them though

seannash

PaulBrewer wrote: »

There's a dealer friend of mine who swears by Focals. What sort of 'flavour' are they? Are the similar to any other brand?

paul you dont eat monitors.
even i know that and i know **** all:D

TelePaul

I think what Paul is talking about is just the classic marginal utility paradox. The more you spend, the less you get. Think about it, and assume the premise that you can 'rate' your level of satisfaction from one to ten.

sei046

eh wah?!

TelePaul

sei046 wrote: »

eh wah?!

Okay listen up, but I warn you, after a little economics theory, you might leave here a changed and lesser person, it's THAT boring.

Diminishing marginal utility refers to the enjoyment you get from the purchase of subsequent units of any product. Let's take Mars bars for example; if you're absolutely famished, one Mars bar will really hit the spot, you'll feel great, money well spent. A second one might taste good too, though not as good as the first one, because you're much less hungry than you were in the first instance. A third one would probably be pushing things - you're quite full at this stage, but we'll say you eat it anyway and derive a small amount of pleasure from it. You've reached a point where a fourth bar would be out of the question - your money is better spent on something else. This is what we call diminishing marginal utility, whereby the usefulness of a good diminishes for every extra unit consumed.

With me so far? Good. Lets relate this to recording.

Supposing you're a newbie who mixes with heaphones (!) but then acquire a pair of hi-fi speakers. The usefulness/utility/functionality/benefit of the hi-fi speakers relative to heaphones is quite high; you notice an instant improvement to your mixes, you tone down the effects and low end. All well and good. Now, let's suppose you upgrade once more to something in the €400 - 500 range; again, you'll notice an improvement. But will it be as radical as the change from headphones to hi-fi speakers? Probably not. Let's go again, only this time you buy something by Genelec; you pay top dollar but how much better are they over your previous purchase? Do they improve your mix to the extent that the move from headphones to hi-fi speakers did? Answer: No.

This is the same with virtually all consumer products.

seannash

TelePaul wrote: »

Okay listen up, but I warn you, after a little economics theory, you might leave here a changed and lesser person, it's THAT boring.

Diminishing marginal utility refers to the enjoyment you get from the purchase of subsequent units of any product. Let's take Mars bars for example; if you're absolutely famished, one Mars bar will really hit the spot, you'll feel great, money well spent. A second one might taste good too, though not as good as the first one, because you're much less hungry than you were in the first instance. A third one would probably be pushing things - you're quite full at this stage, but we'll say you eat it anyway and derive a small amount of pleasure from it. You've reached a point where a fourth bar would be out of the question - your money is better spent on something else. This is what we call diminishing marginal utility, whereby the usefulness of a good diminishes for every extra unit consumed.

With me so far? Good. Lets relate this to recording.

Supposing you're a newbie who mixes with heaphones (!) but then acquire a pair of hi-fi speakers. The usefulness/utility/functionality/benefit of the hi-fi speakers relative to heaphones is quite high; you notice an instant improvement to your mixes, you tone down the effects and low end. All well and good. Now, let's suppose you upgrade once more to something in the €400 - 500 range; again, you'll notice an improvement. But will it be as radical as the change from headphones to hi-fi speakers? Probably not. Let's go again, only this time you buy something by Genelec; you pay top dollar but how much better are they over your previous purchase? Do they improve your mix to the extent that the move from headphones to hi-fi speakers did? Answer: No.

This is the same with virtually all consumer products.

have to disagree with the last point about genelecs not m,aking a difference.
i went from m audio bx5a's to genelecs.
there was a huge marked improvement in my mixes.i listened back to my old tracks on my new monitors and the difference was huge.
this is just my personal experience and alot of that could have been down to in experience but i swear i thought my mixes sounded great listening back to them on the m audios.not the case:D
if i had have known what the tracks truely sounded like i would have done something about it but i didnt because they sounded great on my crappy speakers