Which Monitors?

teamdresch

PaulBrewer wrote: »

There's a dealer friend of mine who swears by Focals. What sort of 'flavour' are they? Are the similar to any other brand?

They just translate really, really well.
Not fatiguing at all.
Lovely top end.

PaulBrewer

seannash wrote: »

paul you dont eat monitors.
even i know that and i know **** all:D

Well there's something made me this Big

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

I think what Paul is talking about is just the classic marginal utility paradox. The more you spend, the less you get. Think about it, and assume the premise that you can 'rate' your level of satisfaction from one to ten.

TelePaul is right!

It's easy enough and affordable enough to make reasonable recordings - it's much more difficult to make great ones and costs a bomb.

So it's easy enough to go 85% down the road, but if you have a desire to improve as all good artists do, your last work is never good enough!

You want it better all the time, well I do. I've never made a record I thought was great - some of them were ok , but I want more, better, bigger!

That last 15% is a killer! But great fun in the chase!

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

Okay listen up, but I warn you, after a little economics theory, you might leave here a changed and lesser person, it's THAT boring.

Diminishing marginal utility refers to the enjoyment you get from the purchase of subsequent units of any product. Let's take Mars bars for example; if you're absolutely famished, one Mars bar will really hit the spot, you'll feel great, money well spent. A second one might taste good too, though not as good as the first one, because you're much less hungry than you were in the first instance. A third one would probably be pushing things - you're quite full at this stage, but we'll say you eat it anyway and derive a small amount of pleasure from it. You've reached a point where a fourth bar would be out of the question - your money is better spent on something else. This is what we call diminishing marginal utility, whereby the usefulness of a good diminishes for every extra unit consumed.

With me so far? Good. Lets relate this to recording.

Supposing you're a newbie who mixes with heaphones (!) but then acquire a pair of hi-fi speakers. The usefulness/utility/functionality/benefit of the hi-fi speakers relative to heaphones is quite high; you notice an instant improvement to your mixes, you tone down the effects and low end. All well and good. Now, let's suppose you upgrade once more to something in the €400 - 500 range; again, you'll notice an improvement. But will it be as radical as the change from headphones to hi-fi speakers? Probably not. Let's go again, only this time you buy something by Genelec; you pay top dollar but how much better are they over your previous purchase? Do they improve your mix to the extent that the move from headphones to hi-fi speakers did? Answer: No.

This is the same with virtually all consumer products.

TelePaul is right(ish) again!

The theory I'm sure is correct regarding Mars bars but in relation to gear the analogy doesn't quite work.

There is only one Mars bar - it is by definition the best one! Therefore it's a 'digital' situation i.e. get one or not.

My argument is buy the Whole Mars Bar!

You may just have the Chocolate, or the Nougat and they're both grand - but it ain't a Mars Bar..... if that's what you want save up and get one!!

I would disagree that the step from Cans to HiFi isn't as big as from Hi-Fi to 'Proper' monitors. (again hard to pin down with the variable that is HiFi)

There have been a few posts already there with practical demonstrations of that.


But ultimately there can be NO argument against using the best tools for jobs - except the willingness/ability to spend.

I aspire everyday I'm in the studio to make great recordings - If I want to 'compete' on the international stage I can't do that unless I have tools.

I know that's the case from trying to do it with half arsed gear for years!!

TelePaul

seannash wrote: »

have to disagree with the last point about genelecs not m,aking a difference.
i went from m audio bx5a's to genelecs.
there was a huge marked improvement in my mixes.i listened back to my old tracks on my new monitors and the difference was huge.
this is just my personal experience and alot of that could have been down to in experience but i swear i thought my mixes sounded great listening back to them on the m audios.not the case:D
if i had have known what the tracks truely sounded like i would have done something about it but i didnt because they sounded great on my crappy speakers

That really wasn't the point I was making. I was referring to the incremental benefit of ANY new gear. Of course high-end equipment is of better quality, but the question is, how much better? Wasn't knocking Genelec, I'd love a pair myself!

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

That really wasn't the point I was making. I was referring to the incremental benefit of ANY new gear. Of course high-end equipment is of better quality, but the question is, how much better?

There's only one way to find out ....:cool:

TelePaul

PaulBrewer wrote: »

TelePaul is right(ish) again!

The theory I'm sure is correct regarding Mars bars but in relation to gear the analogy doesn't quite work.

There is only one Mars bar - it is by definition the best one! Therefore it's a 'digital' situation i.e. get one or not.

My argument is buy the Whole Mars Bar!

You may just have the Chocolate, or the Nougat and they're both grand - but it ain't a Mars Bar..... if that's what you want save up and get one!!

Yep, that's fine, although the basic principle of microeconomics is scarcity - not all of us can afford the high-end mars bar/Genelec speaker, as we satisfy our needs in order of priority; upgrading from an SM 57 (bad example, because they rock!) to a Rode LDC would probably be more sensible than upgrading to a pair of €3000 monitors from a pair of €2500 monitors.

I have no problems with your argument though. I think you should always buy the best quality gear that you can afford and then, more importantly, learn to use it well!!!

TelePaul

PaulBrewer wrote: »

There's only one way to find out ....:cool:

I'll find out one of these days! When my ship comes in, I'll give you a shout. Until then, I'm afraid it's the hi-fi for me!

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

be more sensible than upgrading to a pair of €3000 monitors from a pair of €2500 monitors.

Exactly my point! Though at the other end of the scale!! Unless you can make a significant improvement, hang on til you can.

Increments cost too much.

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

I'll find out one of these days! When my ship comes in, I'll give you a shout. Until then, I'm afraid it's the hi-fi for me!

Hi-Fis can be grand and no point in switchin to another 'Hi-Fi' just because it has a 'Monitor' badge on it!

If you're gettin' results you're doin' it right.

TelePaul

PaulBrewer wrote: »

If you're gettin' results

Uh....yeah.....THAT'S what I'm getting.....

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

Uh....yeah.....THAT'S what I'm getting.....

Of course you'd be gettin' better results if ............

No, lets not start that again!!:eek:

11811

Crickey! quite the debate i've started!! looks like i'm going to wait a little while till i could possibly afford something a little better, i'll just struggle on with the auld cans and dodgy mini hi-fi!
now which headphones should i go for......:D

empirix

since monitors is the subject(can't manage to get a reply on SOS)...........

I have been offered a pair of Event ASP8's for €700, currently i have a pair of Tannoy reveals aktive 5A's - since the tannoys are my first and only set of monitors, i was wondering would it be worth upgrading to the Event's - anybody use them? would there be a significant difference mixing with the Event's - i heard they are pretty good. Primarily into DnB/Electronic music.

Or!!! can anybody recommend better monitors for around €800 as my work is getting a lot better these days and maybe new monitors are needed.

Links below, any info much appreciated, cheers

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/flypage/product_id/6425

http://www.thomann.de/ie/event_asp8.htm

condra

Cuddleworthy wrote: »

which headphones should i go for......:D

That's easy.

Check out these bad-boys..



They haven't been made since the 80s unfortunatly, and require an amp to run. However they sound so crap, anything you mix on them will be fantastic.
If you dont buy them, and instead choose something with modern components, you are a noob and have no place in the world of elite muzos.

On the other hand, if you do buy them, you will quickly start making much better music, and will probably get signed.

PaulBrewer

Cuddleworthy wrote: »

Crickey! quite the debate i've started!! looks like i'm going to wait a little while till i could possibly afford something a little better, i'll just struggle on with the auld cans and dodgy mini hi-fi!
now which headphones should i go for......:D

Wise decision I'd say - what might be a plan, if you are keen to spend, is to invest in a pair of good cans.

You may have read on a parallel post about Beyer DT150s ? It's one of the few things ever that most posters agree they sound good!!

(Not the 100s, they sound like a very loud telephone)

A couple of ton will buy you manky monitors but great quality headphones- and you'll be using the DTs til you go deaf!

A sensible long term investment.

tweeky

Used in every studio in the states these guys are the biz

Sony Pro MDR-7506 Headphones

They are in every studio documentary post 1993, they have "studio Monitor" in large writing on the headband. Get them for $99 in New York.

My tuppence worth on monitors is that like someones choice of partner everyone has their own preference. Make sure you are familiar with the sonic print of the monitor you are using by using a reference CD. For instance if the sound is full and round at the bottom end as in a Dynaudio your mix should reflect that, if they are very present as in a Yamaha NS10 the same applies. One thing i will say is that the amp is sooooo important, people dont realise that no amp is "flat" and every product has a sound, plus you will need a much more powerful amp than the max speaker output to prevent clipping on peaks.

seannash

tweeky wrote: »

they have "studio Monitor" in large writing on the headband.
.

must be true then:D:D

tweeky

don't be a spa!

seannash

ah jesus christ it was only a joke,lighten up;)

condra

I have a pair of 7506. They sound very good but make my ears boil.
Seriously, they get uncomfortable to wear after about 15 minutes.

Personally, I'd find it hard to reccommend them to anyone who does long hours of listening, which is probably most of us here.

My 2 cents.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

dont even consider buying monitors unless you treat your room first .

I have a pair of second hand mackie 624s mk1 which are excellent - but in my pre treated room sounded like crap .

now the room is treated they sound amazing , and mixing and translation is a breeze- something I struggled with stupidly until i relaised the room was the problem.

if your room is not treated ( im talking at least two or 3 good corner bass traps or more ) - you are better off buying a great set of phones and a good head phone amp before you buy monitors


i would like a set of ns10s though .