Fell off the back of a truck

society_pillar

Hi,
I bought a media streamer online recently for 150stg. The parcel arrived but instead contained 20 mp3 players valued at >2000stg. Its been nearly a week since they arrived and the selling company has not contacted me.

If the company does not attempt to contact me in the next ? timeframe do I have any legal right to keep the equipment? (and I'm not saying that I definitely will.....pangs of conscience).
thanks!

Fleming15

If I see anything dodgy I ring my local Garda.

We are all one, you can't just go around robbing of multi billion dollar companies and expect a decent society.

Pull your socks up.

swingking

are we talking ipods

Ste.phen

Contact them and let them know, I imagine they'll be fairly grateful!

Fleming15

Bunch of do gooders.

Go to henry street, hawk the lot and take yourself and the bird on a holiday.

What is this rubbish about moral conscience. Do the big companies have much of a moral conscience??????????

Same old story.

society_pillar

why are you accusing me of robbing? The company is so inept that they

- send me a completely incorrect order
- don't notice it after a week or can't be bothered to contact me

then I can't be bothered ringing a UK customer service line from my mobile.

eth0_

Legally, you must inform them of the mistake (preferably in writing). If they don't collect or arrange collection of the goods within six months, they become yours.

Del2005

They may not notice till their next stocktake and then they could come looking for them. If you still have them you can send them back but if you've sold them there could be legal issues.

Send them and e-mail letting them know that you got the wrong shippment, you'd be on to them (and here) complaining like mad if you'd ordered £2k of stuff and only got £150. You may get something free off them as goodwill.

Cabaal

eth0_ wrote: »

Legally, you must inform them of the mistake (preferably in writing). If they don't collect or arrange collection of the goods within six months, they become yours.

this is correct,
anything else is illegal and don't forget they could come looking for them anytime within the next 6 months

Of course if you tell them, remember they should be paying shipping back etc if they want them back, if you do tell them by phone, fax, e-mail, letter etc, be sure to keep detailed records then leave it 6 months and if you hear nothing do what you want

ruprect

eth0_ wrote: »

Legally, you must inform them of the mistake (preferably in writing). .

Cabaal wrote: »

this is correct,
anything else is illegal

I don't understand this at all. From what you say it sounds like if a company sends you something without you ever ordering it you are legally obliged to inform them about this? and not doing so is illegal?

If so then you would have to report all your junk mail. And if there is some value issue, then who determines value?

e.g. I got a pen in a package from a ebay supplier with his business name on it. Am I legally obliged to report this? what if it was 20ipods with his name on them?

foggy_lad

ruprect wrote: »

I don't understand this at all. From what you say it sounds like if a company sends you something without you ever ordering it you are legally obliged to inform them about this? and not doing so is illegal?

If so then you would have to report all your junk mail. And if there is some value issue, then who determines value?

e.g. I got a pen in a package from a ebay supplier with his business name on it. Am I legally obliged to report this? what if it was 20ipods with his name on them?

it is not unsolicited items received in the mail! the op ordered an item from this company and they or their delivery company made a mistake and sent him a bulk order of another item obviously meant for some shop,

so the only legal thing to do is stated above inform them that their goods are ready for collection and if not collected in 6months they become the property of the op

ruprect

foggy_lad wrote: »

it is not unsolicited items received in the mail! the op ordered an item from this company and they or their delivery company made a mistake and sent him a bulk order of another item obviously meant for some shop

I would be interested in reading the actual laws about this. Is there a time frame. e.g. if he ordered something years ago from them is it still the case. What is the defintion of "unsolicited items"?

I ordered some equipment from the US. Afterwards they sent me several fancy brouchure magazines, I was worried they had signed me up to some subscription by not ticking a box. i.e. it was a full on decent magazine you might buy in a shop. Where is the line legally drawn where you are supposed to say "this is not right", the legal defintion, not "common sense".

What if I ordered an item, the company sent me a package with what I thought was worthless freebies and tossed them out. Then they come looking for it.

gar_29

as far as i know, this is the textbook definition of "theft by finding". not as serious as "normal" theft, but still illegal. you need to take reasonable steps to contact the owner of the goods.

Del2005

ruprect wrote: »

I would be interested in reading the actual laws about this. Is there a time frame. e.g. if he ordered something years ago from them is it still the case. What is the defintion of "unsolicited items"?

I'm sure a mail order company would have decent lawyers who could show you if you wanted.

I ordered some equipment from the US. Afterwards they sent me several fancy brouchure magazines, I was worried they had signed me up to some subscription by not ticking a box. i.e. it was a full on decent magazine you might buy in a shop. Where is the line legally drawn where you are supposed to say "this is not right", the legal defintion, not "common sense".

A lot of places once you order off will send you their brouchures if you don't opt out, which is usually hard to see.

What if I ordered an item, the company sent me a package with what I thought was worthless freebies and tossed them out. Then they come looking for it.

They have to pay for the shipping back so most won't look for them, but if you get more then you ordered you are supposed to tell them.

Grawns

You can easily do nothing and wait for them to contact you. ( I wouldn't be too worried about the theft by finding thing) Wait the six months and if nothng happens then sell them. It's your conscience

uRbaN

I'm pretty sure that 20 Mp3 players valued at about £100 each will be missed. Chances are the orders got confused and the penny has been slow to drop. Sounds like the OP is trying to justify holding on to the items (perfectly normal in my opinion) but its probably best if you do contact the selling company.

gar_29

Grawns wrote: »

You can easily do nothing and wait for them to contact you. ( I wouldn't be too worried about the theft by finding thing) Wait the six months and if nothng happens then sell them. It's your conscience

they're only principles if you stick to them when it doesn't suit.

Grawns

gar_29 wrote: »

they're only principles if you stick to them when it doesn't suit.

Just answering the question. Am not here to judge.

DaveyGem

Grawns wrote: »

You can easily do nothing and wait for them to contact you. ( I wouldn't be too worried about the theft by finding thing) Wait the six months and if nothng happens then sell them. It's your conscience

Doesn this come under the unsolicited goods law...

If memory serves, if you kepp them for 6 months with out a the company contacting you about them i think they're yours

check it out with that irish consumer agency thingy

seamus

This was covered before a few times here. One case I remember was a guy who ordered a laptop from Dell, rang up when the delivery was delayed, received his laptop, then received a second laptop a week later.

It's in the statute books, I couldn't arsed looking it up. If you receive something in the mail that you didn't request, then you are entitled to hold onto those goods if the company doesn't come to collect them within 6 months. The catch is that you *must* inform them of the mistake within 5 months of having received the goods.
Afaik, if you don't inform them of the mistake within 5 months, then they are entitled to collect them at *any* time, even after 6 months, but they have a month from the date of being informed. So if you let them know of the mistake after 7 months, they have a month from that date to collect the goods.

In the OP's case, it's likely that there is an order number for the order that he placed. If the correct order number is on the box or any such documentation, then just the items are wrong, so they made a mistake with the order. This means that it's not a case of unsolicited delivery, but an incorrect order. In that case, the OP has no entitlement whatsoever to hold onto the goods and they must be returned.

If there are no identifying numbers on the box, or the order number is not the same as the one the OP received from the company, then they count as unsolicited goods.

tbh

there is a guy - probably on minimum wage and possibly trying to support a family who's in line to lose his job over this. food for thought.

ejmaztec

Would notifying them in Klingon about their error be sufficient to cover the 6 month rule? If they can't translate it, then presumably you can keep the goods.

ruprect

Del2005 wrote: »

I'm sure a mail order company would have decent lawyers who could show you if you wanted.

Maybe the law forum would be a better bet. I like reading about laws and spotting loopholes.

Going by Cabals post it is illegal for the poster not to inform them. That is what I wonder about. I am not thinking of the person who gets it pulling a fast one, I am also wondering if the company sending it could pull a fast one using some loophole. Am I allowed get 20tons of manure delivered to my neighbours house "by mistake" passing myself off as the company? and he must legally inform me of the error, and then I have 6months to collect it?

Del2005 wrote: »

A lot of places once you order off will send you their brouchures if you don't opt out, which is usually hard to see.

My point is that 6months from now that company could come looking for their brochures back, am I obliged to keep them for 6months. Could they come back claiming I must have sold on magazines worth €100 a go.

seamus wrote: »

If you receive something in the mail that you didn't request, then you are entitled to hold onto those goods if the company doesn't come to collect them within 6 months.

You say entitled, but from reading other posts it seems like you might be obliged to keep them.

axer

ruprect wrote: »

I would be interested in reading the actual laws about this. Is there a time frame. e.g. if he ordered something years ago from them is it still the case. What is the defintion of "unsolicited items"?

PART VI MISCELLANEOUS

[GA] Unsolicited goods.

47.—(1) Where—
[GA]

( a ) unsolicited goods are sent to a person with a view to his acquiring them and are received by him, and
[GA]

( b ) the recipient has neither agreed to acquire nor agreed to return them,
[GA]

and either—
[GA]

(i) during the period of six months following the date of receipt of the goods the sender did not take possession of them and the recipient did not unreasonably refuse to permit the sender to do so, or
[GA]

(ii) not less than 30 days before the expiration of that period the recipient gave notice to the sender and during the following 30 days the sender did not take possession of the goods and the recipient did not unreasonably refuse to permit the sender to do so,
[GA]

then the recipient may treat the goods as if they were an unconditional gift to him and any right of the sender to the goods shall be extinguished.
[GA]

(2) The notice referred to in subsection (1) shall be in writing and shall state—
[GA]

( a ) the recipient's name and address and the address at which the sender may take possession of the goods (if not the same) and
[GA]

( b ) that the goods are unsolicited.
[GA]

(3) A person who, not having reasonable cause to believe there is a right to payment, in the course of any business, makes a demand for payment, or asserts a present or prospective right to payment for what he knows are unsolicited goods sent to another person with a view to his acquiring them, shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]

(4) A person who, not having reasonable cause to believe there is a right to payment in the course of any business and with a view to obtaining any payment for what he knows or ought to know are unsolicited goods—
[GA]

( a ) threatens to bring any legal proceedings,
[GA]

( b ) places or causes to be placed the name of any person on a list of defaulters or debtors or threatens to do so, or
[GA]

( c ) invokes or causes to be invoked any other collection procedure or threatens to do so,
[GA]

shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]

(5) In this section—
[GA]

"acquire" includes hire,
[GA]

"send" includes deliver,
[GA]

"sender" includes any person on whose behalf or with whose consent the goods are sent and any other person claiming through or under the sender or any such person,
[GA]

"unsolicited" means, in relation to goods sent to any person, that they are sent without any prior request by him or on his behalf.

From the sale of goods and supply of services act 1980

The big questions is - did the seller send the items that were sent in error to the OP "with a view to his acquiring them and are received by him"? Maybe the OP can argue that from his point of view they did however how come the OP didn't go looking for the item that he did in fact order? I think it is a case where they cannot charge him for having the goods, they can only look for them back and if they are going to look for them back then more than likely they are going to do it in the first 6 months anyway. Then again is this even the act to quote since the business is UK based?

In my mind fairness should work both ways but OP it is up to you, everyone has different morals.

Del2005

ruprect wrote: »

Maybe the law forum would be a better bet. I like reading about laws and spotting loopholes.

Going by Cabals post it is illegal for the poster not to inform them. That is what I wonder about. I am not thinking of the person who gets it pulling a fast one, I am also wondering if the company sending it could pull a fast one using some loophole. Am I allowed get 20tons of manure delivered to my neighbours house "by mistake" passing myself off as the company? and he must legally inform me of the error, and then I have 6months to collect it?


My point is that 6months from now that company could come looking for their brochures back, am I obliged to keep them for 6months. Could they come back claiming I must have sold on magazines worth €100 a go.


You say entitled, but from reading other posts it seems like you might be obliged to keep them.

Just tell them to send a courier to pick them up, and you are only available on a Monday from 4pm-4:30pm, no company is going to send a courier to pick up a few brouchures and even if they do couriers rarely ever arrive at the correct time:D

But this is totally different to the OP, they ordered one item and received someone elses order or got a totally incorrect order.

And as tbh has said some persons job is on the line for this.

axer

Del2005 wrote: »

And as tbh has said some persons job is on the line for this.

I don't think that is relevant imo.

ruprect

axer wrote: »

I don't think that is relevant imo.

Neither do I. The job is on the line if they are returned or not, some employee didn't do their job right.

Del2005

ruprect wrote: »

Neither do I. The job is on the line if they are returned or not, some employee didn't do their job right.

If £2k worth of product disappears the person looses their job, if £2k worth of product gets shipped to the wrong place and is returned the get a b0ll0xing. Thats how most places work. Honest mistakes happen, but if they don't turn up then the employee is a suspect.

Have you never made a mistake?

I think it's great the way people here are impling for the OP to keep them, yet if the OP had come on and said he'd ordered £2k worth of gear and only got £150 everyone would be calling the company every name under the sun.

axer

Del2005 wrote: »

If £2k worth of product disappears the person looses their job, if £2k worth of product gets shipped to the wrong place and is returned the get a b0ll0xing. Thats how most places work. Honest mistakes happen, but if they don't turn up then the employee is a suspect.

The packages went out. They have a record of that so why would the employee be suspect? Who's to say that the person who sent it out was not a manager or the owner of the company? Either way it is irrelevant. Do you think that by sending the items back you somehow save someones job, feed their family etc etc?

EDIT: BTW I am don't think the OP should keep them but that has nothing to do with whether someone loses their job or not. If they do it regularly i.e. fu'ck up like this, then they should lose their job. If it was a once off fu'ck-up then they wouldn't lose their jobs whether the items are sent back or not. Actually it would be failure of the company (incl managers who create the systems, policies etc.) to not notice the items were sent to the wrong person and to not demand them back - if they do ask for the items back then the company can pick them up and they get back their 2k worth of mp3 players - end of story.

foggy_lad

op DO THE DECENT THING!

KTRIC

Notify them in Irish, completely legal as its now a recognised EU language.