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McGreevy has not read the treaty either

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    #2
    Sherifu
    Registered Users Posts: 17,727 ✭✭✭✭Sherifu


    McCreevy.

    Is he voting on it?


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    #3
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Not sure why you're complaining. I'd say 90% or people won't of read it when they're voting, either. And going by what the likes of Libertas claim the treaty means, they haven't read it either.


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    #4
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Vinegar Hill wrote: »
    So we are just supposed to take it on faith to vote YES to Lisbon.
    What's stopping you from reading it yourself? If someone tells you to vote one way or another and you take heed of what they say, you are still placing your faith in their advice if you have not informed yourself of the contents of the treaty, irrespective of how this individual is advising you to vote.


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    #5
    Vinegar Hill
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭Vinegar Hill


    I have read it and know how I will vote. I think it sad however that 3 of the champions of the YES vote (Cowen, Couglin, and McGreevy) have not even read it.


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    #6
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    They have not read it in it's entirety. That's different to not even reading it. You're twinsting their words.


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    #7
    Monotype
    Registered Users Posts: 6,710 ✭✭✭Monotype


    humanji wrote: »
    They have not read it in it's entirety. That's different to not even reading it. You're twinsting their words.

    I don't know - it sounds more like a guilty 'I haven't read it'.

    I would expect the leaders of the country to read it - ALL of it - I would consider it their duty.


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    #8
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Monotype wrote: »
    I don't know - it sounds more like a guilty 'I haven't read it'.

    I would expect the leaders of the country to read it - ALL of it - I would consider it their duty.

    Would you? I would expect them to rely on expert advice.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #9
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    And as citizens it's all our duties to read all of it, and bugger all people will do it. At least they're being honest about it.

    I would feel a little better if they did read it all, but as said above, it doesn't really matter if they read it or not as we should all be making up our own minds.


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    #10
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    Vinegar Hill wrote: »
    I have read it and know how I will vote. I think it sad however that 3 of the champions of the YES vote (Cowen, Couglin, and McGreevy) have not even read it.

    Well as staunch promoters of Lisbon, I would expect these people to have read the entire document for themselves so that they'd understand the full text, in light of telling (yes: I mean 'telling') the people of Ireland to vote Yes!

    Regards!


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    #11
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Where's Scofflaw when you need someone to assure you that at least some ****er has read the treaty.

    Rest assured we'll all be happy when he tells us the the "experts" have read the treaty and are sure that we'll be more than happy with it.

    Come on Scofflaw, I'm wavering.


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    #12
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Irish and Proud wrote: »
    Well as staunch promoters of Lisbon, I would expect these people to have read the entire document for themselves so that they'd understand the full text, in light of telling (yes: I mean 'telling') the people of Ireland to vote Yes!
    :rolleyes:

    Of course the 'No' side are just "politely asking" people to vote 'no', aren't they? And I suppose Gerry Adams has memorised the entire document, hasn't he?


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    #13
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Where's Scofflaw when you need someone to assure you that at least some ****er has read the treaty.

    Rest assured we'll all be happy when he tells us the the "experts" have read the treaty and are sure that we'll be more than happy with it.

    Come on Scofflaw, I'm wavering.

    Well, you can read the White Paper yourself. If, afterwards, you are still under the impression that the Department of Foreign Affairs failed to read the Treaty, and offer the government its "expert" advice, do get back to me.

    reassuringly,
    Scofflaw


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    #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Vinegar Hill wrote: »
    I have read it and know how I will vote. I think it sad however that 3 of the champions of the YES vote (Cowen, Couglin, and McGreevy) have not even read it.
    [Sarcasm]Have you learned it off by heart now? because we will be examining you on it later[/sarcasm]

    To be honest,we're hearing a lot of guff about ministers not having read the treaty cover to cover.
    I challenge anyone here mouthing that inconsequential nonsense to tell me if they have read every piece of legislation cover to cover passed since 1922 before they vote in general elections?
    Because by your own logic,you are voting blind without doing so...


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    #15
    Fleming15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭Fleming15


    Well for a start, the treaty has not even been finalised. So I think that would provide a large obstacle for anyone prepared to read the lot.

    So we have a bunch of do gooders voting yes, while all SANE people realise that this EU, we are all in this togeather, peace out, is a lot of tatter. Vote NO and show these politicians who the boss is. Of course we have a population of gimps who love power seemingly powerful people, catch yourselves on.


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    #16
    santry_goonshow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 236 ✭✭santry_goonshow


    Not only did McCreevy say he didn't read the treaty, he also said that people in ireland generally shouldn't read it or (troublingly) "we'd never get anything done in the irish system" if people sat down to do that.

    I have to say I am an ambivalent neutral, to the point where I wasn't even going to vote. I'm against a EU army, but for better tax harmonisation within the EU if it forces our right-wing parties to gather funds to run proper education provision and health services and recognise that we live in a society (the economy only being an aspect of that).

    So I am now thinking why didn't the govt. run the Lisbon Treaty to have a proper range of sub-issues for people to reflect, for example the formation of closer military co-ordination, the parameters of tax harmonisation, the number and nature of commissions, etc. They did this before in an abortion referendum where they recognised the "complexity of sub issues". If no was returned it would give the govt a clear mandate and instruction to seek a clause to be agreed with our partners. Too democratic huh?


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    #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Fleming15 wrote: »
    So we have a bunch of do gooders voting yes, while all SANE people realise that this EU, we are all in this togeather, peace out, is a lot of tatter. Vote NO and show these politicians who the boss is. Of course we have a population of gimps who love power seemingly powerful people, catch yourselves on.
    Wow...Thats just breath taking...
    It's persuaded me...


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