RKQ meeting of Architectural Technicians

RKQ

We had an excellent meeting last night. It was a very relaxed and friendly meeting of 10 self employed individuals, in Portloaise. We travelled from a number of counties, from across the country, so we felt Portlaoise was the most central location. A lot of experiences and views were shared over three and a half hours. The debate was very enlightening and positive, as the IATGN was not on the agenda. We found two solutions to AIB problem.
I feel we have the experience, friendship and momentum to achieve our goals, for the good of our Profession. Contact the usual email address for further information. All Architectural Technicians need to get involved in getting their Profession recognised, in Ireland. We need to continue to work together to achieve progress.
It is unfortunate that the IATGN web site went off line last night also. It was a great forum for communicating to all members of the network. Their is nothing to fear from honest debate. The truth is out there!

Slig

what?

smashey

I'm aware of this happening in a few areas throughout the country but I'm not sure if this is the right place for it. I'll see what Mellor and muffler think.

muffler

I dont really understand the abbreviation of the title and Im not sure this is the right forum for this topic but I do see the need for it to be debated. In a way it is relevant to the forum but Im not convinced that this is the right place or time.

Is there another forum we can put it or is their a separate web site we can link to and redirect others to?

Deputy Dog

But you's arent professionals, an Architect is a professional, a cad technician isnt what an architect is, far from it. Im disrespecting your job, im just saying it takes or should take more than drawing and being a cad technician to consist as being described as a profession.

Perhaps, im missing somehting here?

sydthebeat

DD..... :eek:

Whos talking about Cad Technicians???

Please stay on topic.... Architectural Technicians are most dfinitely professionals....

muffler

Deputy Dog wrote: »

But you's arent professionals, an Architect is a professional, a cad technician isnt what an architect is, far from it. Im disrespecting your job, im just saying it takes or should take more than drawing and being a cad technician to consist as being described as a profession.

Perhaps, im missing somehting here?

Make a comment like that again and what you will be missing is your right to post here and thats a promise.

Dont think for 1 minute that you are going to come on here and belittle my fellow professionals. Take this as a yellow card and infraction given.

Any further nonsense like this will get you a red card.

smashey

Deputy Dog wrote: »

But you's arent professionals, an Architect is a professional, a cad technician isnt what an architect is, far from it. Im disrespecting your job, im just saying it takes or should take more than drawing and being a cad technician to consist as being described as a profession.

Perhaps, im missing somehting here?

You're missing a grasp of the English language. As muffler said, any more stupid comments like that and you won't be posting here again.

RKQ

We met as Professionals, with a wish to promote our Profession. We do not fear taking steps to regulate and improve our profession. We are eager to meet and discuss a number of issues, with like-minded people, in the hope of improving our profession. We are happy to use Cad as a design tool, in our offices. I did not mention Cad in my post. A number of us are employers. A number of us may be eligible for membership of RIAI yet a number of us would prefer to remain Technicians! We would be happy to see a Profession Oganisation in Ireland, that would represent our interests and promote our Profession. Sadly this organisation does not YET exist. We are eager to help in its formation and development. I do hope that we can have a positive and open debate on this board.

muffler

Deputy Dog wrote: »

Perhaps, im missing somehting here?

Yes - The sheriff

Slig

I am missing something here!! I am an architectural technician with absolutely NO wish to become an architect, never wanted to be one and am proud of my profession, it does annoy me that there is no professional body for arch tech and it annoys me when people with no qualification refer to themselves a architectural technicians as it annoys architects when non-qualified designers call themselves architects.

I dont think this is the proper forum however for this discussion, I think Art and Architecture is probably more appropriate as this forum should not advocate any professionals and there are probably more professionals there to debate this

Slig

Sorry Deputy Dog but you are missing something, an Architectural technician is NOT a cad technician and with a degree I think I should be able to refer to my qualification as a profession. A cad technician has a 2 week course in autocad.
Comparing a cad technician to an Architectural technician is like comparing an ambulance driver to a doctor. An Architectural technician specialises in the construction aspect of a design, making the architects concept a reality and translating the features of the design into shapes and structures that can be built, insulated, waterproofed and through design will blend into the rest of the building. Architects dont do details, in fact only a small part of an architects job is actually design, in large projects architects are the heads and lead the design team of engineers, architectural technicians etc. They need to insure that the project is on time and budget and that all problems are sent to the correct professional.

Mellor

Deputy Dog wrote: »

But you's arent professionals, an Architect is a professional, a cad technician isnt what an architect is, far from it. Im disrespecting your job, im just saying it takes or should take more than drawing and being a cad technician to consist as being described as a profession.

Perhaps, im missing somehting here?

missing something indeed.

Slig wrote: »

in large projects architects are the heads and lead the design team of engineers, architectural technicians etc. They need to insure that the project is on time and budget and that all problems are sent to the correct professional.

Just to expand on this, the person running a large job doesn't have to be an architect, some of the biggest jobs in this country were run by technicians. Some of the most senior people in the countrys biggest practices are technicians.
Just incase a layperson drifting by gets the wrong idea

sas

Mellor wrote: »

Just incase a layperson drifting by gets the wrong idea

Lay person here.

What is the difference between an architectural technician and an architect?

The more I've read this thread the more I've wondered about this. Obviously the 3rd level courses vary at some point but in what manner? Is there an apprenticeship period post college similar to accountancy?

I've also heard the term architectural technologist. How does that vary from technician or is it the same thing?

smashey

sas wrote: »

Lay person here.

What is the difference between an architectural technician and an architect?

The more I've read this thread the more I've wondered about this. Obviously the 3rd level courses vary at some point but in what manner? Is there an apprenticeship period post college similar to accountancy?

I've also heard the term architectural technologist. How does that vary from technician or is it the same thing?

I'll leave this to Mellor. My head fries at the thought of typing an explanation.

sinnerboy

Different training SAS . I'm a tekkie myself .

Architects are trained to create spaces . Tekkies are trained to enclose them .

Best sound bite / over simplification I can think of to explain

We work together in practices , but this is not always the case .

sinnerboy

3 canabals were temping in a large architectural practice

They would "have" a staff member for lunch each day .

The elder canabal said one day " careful from now on - they are getting suspicious around here . Only pick staff they won't notice missing "

Few days later on the way to the dole office the elder says " I said only staff they won't notice missing - but OH NO ! you two HAD to eat a technician" :pac::pac::pac:

Mellor

sinnerboy wrote: »

Different training SAS . I'm a tekkie myself .

Architects are trained to create spaces . Tekkies are trained to enclose them .

Best sound bite / over simplification I can think of to explain

We work together in practices , but this is not always the case .

Thats a simple enough example, which is generally the best kind

I normally go with, Architects design how a building looks, and Techies design how to build it,
Its not perfectly accurate, but its ok.

Schooby

Looked for definitions, none easily found but got random job requirments from recruitment agencies which might clarify to some extent:

Arch technician:
Strong Technical skills and a good working knowledge of current building regulations, Enthusiasm and proficiency in AutoCAD essential. 3D Graphic skills an advantage. Previous experience of working drawings / detailing on large scale projects desired

Architect:
design flair and project management experience. Ability to control and have responsibility for own cost base is required as is the need to be fully conversant with Irish planning and regulatory requirements. Excellent contract admin background, good communication skills and AutoCAD experience essential.

ardara1

Chartered Inst Arch Technologies -

Web site: http://www.ciat.org.uk/
I have the greatest respect for the organization and it's membership, top man last year was from Ireland! Quite a sizable grouping within Ireland.

muffler

Schooby wrote: »

Arch technician:
Strong Technical skills and a good working knowledge of current building regulations, Enthusiasm and proficiency in AutoCAD essential. 3D Graphic skills an advantage. Previous experience of working drawings / detailing on large scale projects desired

That would be a standard enough requirement.

Schooby wrote: »

Architect:
design flair and project management experience. Ability to control and have responsibility for own cost base is required as is the need to be fully conversant with Irish planning and regulatory requirements. Excellent contract admin background, good communication skills and AutoCAD experience essential.

And that would also be a frequent requirement for a technician from the cherry picking companies looking for a good technician.

Slig

And to simplify it further, most of the professionals on this forum asking questions on HOW to build something are Architectural Technicians/Architectural Technologists/Technical Architects/Assistant Architects/Architectural Engineers (all names for the same profession and all too much of a mouthfull when asked what you do!)

sinnerboy

correction - most of those ANSWERING questions are .... as described

Slig

sinnerboy wrote: »

correction - most of those ANSWERING questions are .... as described

And to simplify it further, most of the professionals on this forum asking questions on HOW to build something are Architectural Technicians/Architectural Technologists/Technical Architects/Assistant Architects/Architectural Engineers (all names for the same profession and all too much of a mouthfull when asked what you do!)

thats what I said

sydthebeat

slig, you said 'ASKING' instead of 'ANSWERING'... just SBs way of upping the profession....

RKQ

Now that we have accurate definitions.

1. How do we promote our Profession?
2. How do we ensure that the general public understand the definitions?
3. How should we work together to form a Irish professional organisation?
4. Should RIAI(Tech) and CIAT join together, in Ireland?

Slig

sorry, thats me dislexia showing, I focused on the wrong word.
what are the professional bodies available for an arch tech to join?

sydthebeat

Slig wrote: »

sorry, thats me dislexia showing, I focused on the wrong word.
what are the professional bodies available for an arch tech to join?

at the moment either RIAI (tech) or CIAT

both involve a lenghty process, dependant on your experience....

Mellor

ardara1 wrote: »

Chartered Inst Arch Technologies -

Web site: http://www.ciat.org.uk/
I have the greatest respect for the organization and it's membership, top man last year was from Ireland! Quite a sizable grouping within Ireland.

The CIAT are a good organisation, and thet, imo, recognaise the abilities of an Arch. Tech in greater depth than the RIAI.

RKQ wrote:

Should RIAI(Tech) and CIAT join together, in Ireland?

I think a stand alone org is need, it would be too hard to merge too pre-existing organisations. Especialy considering involves merging the irish branch of the CIAT, with the (Tech) section of the RIAI. Merging some of one with some of another is messy (


I'm sure most of you are aware that there was an irish organisation, which disbanded and members transfered to the BIAT (the CIAT pre 2006)

Mellor

Slig wrote: »

Architectural Technicians/Architectural Technologists/Technical Architects/Assistant Architects/Architectural Engineers (all names for the same profession and all too much of a mouthfull when asked what you do!)

Agreed on the mouthful, but I would say they are the same. In fact, I would say they are all different, I separate each of those into its rightful place, all 5 of them.
Some people would be offended it they were refered to by the wrong one, as some are slightly belittling.

No6

Hey RKQ, good to see you've got the ball rolling here too!! Joining the RIAI is very quick if you've attended a RIAI recognised course, DIT WIT and fromerly LIT and I believe CIT at one stage but not anymore and have 2 years post qualification experience in an RIAI practice. Otherwise you have to do the entrance exam. Joining CIAT takes a bit of time but its up to you to put the work in for your POP records, the biggest problem with CIAT here is that no colleges are recognised so you've got to do all the sections no exemptions, its just more work. CIAT is only for techs thought and i've found them very proactive sor far. In relation to the Architect vrs Technician thing, the training is different and to my mind the results depends on the individual, I've worked with very talented Architects and Technicians and also some very bad ones and all shades inbetween. The technician biggest problem as far as I can see is the lack of understanding form the outside the profession of what we actually can do, The RIAI have protected their title and fair play to them but nobody is looking after us and no one will except ourselves!! I liken it to "The Blues had a baby and called it Rock & Roll" - the Tech profession is even younger than Rock & Roll, give it time all we need is Elvis!! Shake those hip RQK!!