RKQ meeting of Architectural Technicians

topcatcbr

just found this threat great work

topcatcbr

RKQ wrote: »

We had an excellent meeting last night. It was a very relaxed and friendly meeting of 10 self employed individuals, in Portloaise. We travelled from a number of counties, from across the country, so we felt Portlaoise was the most central location. A lot of experiences and views were shared over three and a half hours. The debate was very enlightening and positive, as the IATGN was not on the agenda. We found two solutions to AIB problem.
I feel we have the experience, friendship and momentum to achieve our goals, for the good of our Profession. Contact the usual email address for further information. All Architectural Technicians need to get involved in getting their Profession recognised, in Ireland. We need to continue to work together to achieve progress.
It is unfortunate that the IATGN web site went off line last night also. It was a great forum for communicating to all members of the network. Their is nothing to fear from honest debate. The truth is out there!

How did i miss this was it advertised

RKQ

The meeting was advertised on the IATGN web site, for two weeks. It came about as a result of the IATGN National Committee feeling it could not approach a bank regarding its policy change, regarding Certificates of Compliance.
A large number of Self employed individuals felt this important issue should be addressed.
We met last thursday, in Portlaoise. Our numbers continue to grow.
We welcome all interested people, including paye. We need to create a policy that will address issues as they arise. We need to be proactive.

I started this tread, to build on the positive outcome of our meeting. We felt it was important to let everyone know that we exist and want to increase in number. As self employed individuals, we have great determination and drive. We need to achieve results.

We are very interested in improving our profession and getting recognition from the Law Society, all financial istitutions and all Government Departments.

We believe in an Irish organisation being formed, like CIAT in the UK. We hope the IATGN can achieve this. We will help in any way we can but we will also do what is necessary to protect our business'.

We feel that open and constructive debate is important, unfortunately the IATGN discussion board went off line on Thursday.
You are welcome to pm for details of our next meeting.

topcatcbr

RKQ wrote: »

The meeting was advertised on the IATGN web site, for two weeks. It came about as a result of the IATGN National Committee feeling it could not approach a bank regarding its policy change, regarding Certificates of Compliance.
A large number of Self employed individuals felt this important issue should be addressed.
We met last thursday, in Portlaoise. Our numbers continue to grow.
We welcome all interested people, including paye. We need to create a policy that will address issues as they arise. We need to be proactive.

I started this tread, to build on the positive outcome of our meeting. We felt it was important to let everyone know that we exist and want to increase in number. As self employed individuals, we have great determination and drive. We need to achieve results.

We are very interested in improving our profession and getting recognition from the Law Society, all financial istitutions and all Government Departments.

We believe in an Irish organisation being formed, like CIAT in the UK. We hope the IATGN can achieve this. We will help in any way we can but we will also do what is necessary to protect our business'.

We feel that open and constructive debate is important, unfortunately the IATGN discussion board went off line on Thursday.
You are welcome to pm for details of our next meeting.

I am an arch tech living in portarlington
I check the IATGN for news only and rarly look at its discussion board as i find it is not very active. I would be interested being involved.

RKQ

Hi Topcatcbr. Welcome to our group! Drop me a line for details. All email addresses etc will be treated confidentially.
We grew from the discussion board on the IATGN site. We were referred to as the "Independent Initiative" by the National Committee.
We share the same goals as the IATGN and are members of it but our meeting was totally independent of the IATGN.
Our actions will be decided by concensus. We have no problem in taking the initiative and being proactive for the good of all.
There are many "changes" on the horizon, that affect us all. We must work together to secure our future. The definitions above are quite accurate today, this may not always be the case. We need to be recognised by the general public, as a Profession.
On a lighter note, it was great to meet as individuals, with common goals and chat about every day issues, Architecture, Technology, Planning, BER, Air tightness etc. As a group we are talented and specialist in a number of areas. Its great to be able to share our knowledge and experiences.
Boards.ie is an excellent board, very well run. There are some very interesting treads on this site.

muffler

RKQ wrote: »

Now that we have accurate definitions.

1. How do we promote our Profession?
2. How do we ensure that the general public understand the definitions?
3. How should we work together to form a Irish professional organisation?
4. Should RIAI(Tech) and CIAT join together, in Ireland?

One of the first things you should have done and should still do is discuss this with the forum mods before embarking any further on your crusade.

muffler

RKQ wrote: »

Hi Topcatcbr. Welcome to our group! Drop me a line for details. All email addresses etc will be treated confidentially.
We grew from the discussion board on the IATGN site. We were referred to as the "Independent Initiative" by the National Committee.
We share the same goals as the IATGN and are members of it but our meeting was totally independent of the IATGN.
Our actions will be decided by concensus. We have no problem in taking the initiative and being proactive for the good of all.
There are many "changes" on the horizon, that affect us all. We must work together to secure our future. The definitions above are quite accurate today, this may not always be the case. We need to be recognised by the general public, as a Profession.
On a lighter note, it was great to meet as individuals, with common goals and chat about every day issues, Architecture, Technology, Planning, BER, Air tightness etc. As a group we are talented and specialist in a number of areas. Its great to be able to share our knowledge and experiences.
Boards.ie is an excellent board, very well run. There are some very interesting treads on this site.

I cant speak for the other mods here but they will have their own say on this Im sure but Im not happy with you welcoming anyone to anything on this forum especially using a phrase like

Hi Topcatcbr. Welcome to our group! Drop me a line for details. All email addresses etc will be treated confidentially

As I said in another post you should be talking to us here and not trying to set up your own organisation through a forum of boards.ie

sinnerboy

For what it's worth I agree with muffler .
This forum ain't the place

RKQ

Sorry Muffler & Sinnerboy. I'm just trying to get a debate going. I'm not trying to set up a group. Just trying to get some interest going. Let people know whats happening and get their point of view.....

1. How do we promote our Profession?
2. How do we ensure that the general public understand the definitions?
3. How should we work together to form an Irish professional organisation?
4. Should members from RIAI(Tech) and CIAT join together, in Ireland?

How do I contact ye to discuss this tread?

sydthebeat

I think it would be a shame if someone is deliberately restricted from trying to progress our profession in a proactive and hand-on way. Yes, this forum is probably not the proper place, in theory, for this use..... but surely you could bend the rules for once. perhaps make it a sticky and direct all associate posts there?

Our profession has been in the doldrums for way too long now, and with the inception of the building control bill, and the registering of the title of architect, you will definitely see uninformed sectors make provisions for only architects to be acceptable for process..... the certification from financial institutions is only the first..... we all know how ludicrous it is at the moment when the technician compiles the FSC or DAC application, yet cannot sign off the work because the requiring body doesnt recognise us....

Perhaps we could be a bit more accommodating of what RKQ is trying to do?

muffler

PMs all the way lads.

The public will be bored otherwise.

topcatcbr

RKQ wrote: »

Sorry Muffler & Sinnerboy. I'm just trying to get a debate going. I'm not trying to set up a group. Just trying to get some interest going. Let people know whats happening and get their point of view.....

1. How do we promote our Profession?
2. How do we ensure that the general public understand the definitions?
3. How should we work together to form an Irish professional organisation?
4. Should members from RIAI(Tech) and CIAT join together, in Ireland?

How do I contact ye to discuss this tread?

Well done I think we need an independent forum (like this one) to express these issues.

I am an architectural technician and am not a member of either of RIAI(Tech) or CIAT as i do not see how either one can properly represent us. the RIAI are primarily interested in their Architect members as was evident by the work done by them in relation to the new building control act. They ensured that their architect members could sign certs of compliance but left their tech members hanging. I don't have a problem with this as they are only doing what they were set up to do and look after their architects. While the CIAT is a good organization it is based in the UK and does not recognise any Irish third level qualification for full membership. Thus a lengthy process to become a full member.
I understand that they are trying to change the building control act to allow its members to issue certs of compliance.

How do we promote our Profession
We promote our profession by doing the best job we can and upholding professional standards. Respect will follow.

Public understanding i dont know

How should we work together to form an Irish professional organisation
We should use our ties with the RIAI and CIAT as a spring board as the CIAT did during their early years

Should members from RIAI(Tech) and CIAT join together, in Ireland?
This is up to them but i believe their is allot of interest in an irish orgonization.

I think the time is now to set up an Irish organization for Irish Architectural techs to deal with Irish issues. We should however hold on to the ties with the RIAI and CIAT as they have a lot of combined expertise and experience which will prove invaluable.

Supertech

Topcatcbr - the building control act has nothing to do with Certs of Compliance ....

sydthebeat

Supertech...

the building control act can be used by financial institutions to refuse certs from non-recognised professions.... it has already happend... not directly as a result of the act, but certainly accommodated by the act....

this is a good thing.... i make no bones about it...

however technicians missed the boat with the act as to getting the profession Legally and Legitimately recognised.....
Why would a financial institution accept certs from a profession that has
a. no legal standing
b. no legal definition
c. no lobby group
d. no historical weight of argument....

Slig

Thats the part that really sickens me.
I cant sign a cert of compliance in my own right but I am the only one in our office that is capable of carrying out an inspection

sydthebeat

There goes this thread ....... :rolleyes:

No6

Lets please keep to the subject in hand , Arch tech's do have a problem in gaining recognition from institutions such as the Law Society and the Banks. This is because we are new young profession only around 40 years or so. We will hopefully have an Irish body which will represent us in the IATGN, but they are only in the process of setting themselves up and are currnetly as a group unable to assist self employed Techs. To my mind its time for us techs to get off our collective butts and stop slagging other professions because we havn't got the recognition we feel we deserve and get out there and get it ourselves.

topcatcbr

I also believe Arch Techs are the best people to issue these certs and infact are usually the people who do this work in practice and signed off by others. This does not mean that Architects & engineers are not capable of doing so also. It all depends on the individual.

Supertech

Not to labour the point - but ,the part of the act we're discussing (which deals with the registration of the Titles Architect, Building Surveyor and Quantity Surveyor) has nothing to do with Banks or Financial Institutions. It simply stops people who are not qualified in any of the professions referred to above from using those titles. It hasn't accommodated anything as yet, because not all the processes are in place for it to work fully. These processes will allow people who feel that they should be allowed to use these titles by virtue of experience and time served practicing as architects, surveyors or QS's to prove their capability. To suggest it has been used by financial institutions to limit those from whom they will accept certificates is wrong. They have used membership of professional organisations to limit those certifying, not the Building Control Act. In a sense thay have gone a step further than the Act, and demanded proof of qualification - without which no practitioner can join one of these organisations. It's a subtle difference, but important to make note of it. By the way, you are 100% correct with your final points (a,b,c,d) - I agree completely. But AT's have been here before and failed. Most can't seem to be bothered.

No6

Aggreed supertech Apthy is the enemy of AT's but we're damn good at it or perhaps we're just too busy!!

Mellor

I've edit a few posts to remove unwanted material, and references to such.
Any more of that and this will be locked.

topcatcbr

Supertech wrote: »

Not to labour the point - but ,the part of the act we're discussing (which deals with the registration of the Titles Architect, Building Surveyor and Quantity Surveyor) has nothing to do with Banks or Financial Institutions. It simply stops people who are not qualified in any of the professions referred to above from using those titles. It hasn't accommodated anything as yet, because not all the processes are in place for it to work fully. These processes will allow people who feel that they should be allowed to use these titles by virtue of experience and time served practicing as architects, surveyors or QS's to prove their capability. To suggest it has been used by financial institutions to limit those from whom they will accept certificates is wrong. They have used membership of professional organisations to limit those certifying, not the Building Control Act. In a sense thay have gone a step further than the Act, and demanded proof of qualification - without which no practitioner can join one of these organisations. It's a subtle difference, but important to make note of it. By the way, you are 100% correct with your final points (a,b,c,d) - I agree completely. But AT's have been here before and failed. Most can't seem to be bothered.

I have looked over the BC act and it appears that you are correct. ty

muffler

Mellor wrote: »

I've edit a few posts to remove unwanted material, and references to such.
Any more of that and this will be locked.

Mellor has been busy and shouldnt have been if people would have a bit of respect for other professions and fellow comrades.

I said before that I had reservations about this topic and doubted if this was the right forum for the topic but Im going to warn everyone now. Mellor has made it clear that the thread will be locked if there are any further indiscretions but I can assure you here and now that if any of you dont post responsibly and in accordance with the charter then you wont post here at all.

I cant make it any simpler than that.

Behave like adults please.

kadman

Just came across this thread, seems more like an AT appreciation society being set up.;)

Surprised that someone that posted in an " open debate " on the subject, was dealt with so harshly, maybe I,m going soft in my old age:eek:

kadman

muffler

kadman wrote: »

Surprised that someone that posted in an " open debate " on the subject, was dealt with so harshly, maybe I,m going soft in my old age:eek:

Explain that please.

kadman

muffler wrote: »

Explain that please.

Hi Muffler

Is Deputy Dog not entitled to air his views on an open debate forum , without the threat of disciplinary actions.

kadman

muffler

kadman wrote: »

Hi Muffler

Is Deputy Dog not entitled to air his views on an open debate forum , without the threat of disciplinary actions.

kadman

I'll reply to that seeing as I asked the question. Deputy Dog give up the right to air his views with his pathetic trolling comments. He knows where he stands and thats the end of it.

However if you have a problem with the moderation of this forum then take it to feedback but dont bring it up here again.

Mellor

Deputy Dog's views, were wrong. He knew this, was very aware of what he was saying, and only posted them to annoy people.
He purposely created a new account to do this. His is now site banned I believe. (This includes his main account which had a few thousand posts).

I have a pretty good idea why he did it, but i am keeping it to myself.

muffler

sydthebeat wrote: »

I think it would be a shame if someone is deliberately restricted from trying to progress our profession in a proactive and hand-on way. Yes, this forum is probably not the proper place, in theory, for this use..... but surely you could bend the rules for once. perhaps make it a sticky and direct all associate posts there?

Our profession has been in the doldrums for way too long now, and with the inception of the building control bill, and the registering of the title of architect, you will definitely see uninformed sectors make provisions for only architects to be acceptable for process..... the certification from financial institutions is only the first..... we all know how ludicrous it is at the moment when the technician compiles the FSC or DAC application, yet cannot sign off the work because the requiring body doesnt recognise us....

Perhaps we could be a bit more accommodating of what RKQ is trying to do?

Im just after re-reading this thread and apologies I missed this post the first time round.

Im an arch technician so therefore its as much to my benefit as others to ensure that we get the recognition we deserve. I think we all agree on that point. I also believe that there should be a seperate governing body (other than the RIAI) for technicians/tecnologists here in Ireland and that the said governing body would have full recognition from the Law Society, Finanacial institutions etc.

I certainly wasnt trying to stifle debate on the issue but my concerns were for this forum. RKQ (who I hope will remain as a member/user here) joined boards.ie with the sole intention of starting this thread and its certainly a thread that contains a lot of issues that need to be addressed but I dont want to see this forum being used as a springboard for the launch of a new organisation or group or a place where members from another grouping (who perhaps may have had a falling out for all we know - its strange that a web site goes down on the very night that certain members are meeting in private session) will decide to get together and debate their own agenda.

This is a private site and therefore a private forum but obviously with access to the public. Its got its own set of rules and I for one dont want to see any one individual or group step over the line when it comes down to rules. This thread/topic has huge and far reaching implications both in the short and long term for every technician in Ireland and these implications need to be debated but I still feel this is the wrong place for it.

At the outset the the OP should have contacted the forum mods in relation to this topic but having said all that there are discussions ongoing behind the scenes with a view to accommodating debate on the topic and how to progress matters from here. Im not in a position yet to say what those discussions are but if (and Im hopeful) that something positive comes from them then you can all thank smashey who has been working on the issue without the knowledge of the people here.

In conclusion this topic does need to be addressed and I hope that we will be in a better position in the next couple of days to advise as to how it can be done without involving this forum.

topcatcbr

Any Update muffler