RKQ meeting of Architectural Technicians

muffler

topcatcbr wrote: »

Any Update muffler

Yes indeed, there is something planned for here and I have been provisionally notified but things are just not in place yet.

Smashey has been doing a bit of consulting with the admins and there will be something positive happening in the next few days I would think. Smashey is away for a dirty weekend so I will leave it to him to make any formal announcement at the beginning of the week. I dont want to steal his thunder

smashey

Right all, sorry for the delay in getting back but here is what we have.

Sometime during the next day or so, we will have a hosted forum called "Architectural technicians discussion forum". Long winded I know but it gets the message across. This forum will be specifically for technicians & technologists from all over the country to post regarding current happenings. Obviously, we would like to get as many people signed up to it as possible so as soon as we have it, send a link to anyone you think would be interested. I see great potential in this and given boards.ie's reputation, I believe it can become a central point of contact for all who are affected.

I'd like to give a big thanks to the admins of boards.ie and Vexorg in particular for his understanding and assistance in this matter.

muffler

smashey wrote: »

I'd like to give a big thanks to the admins of boards.ie and Vexorg in particular for his understanding and assistance in this matter.

I'll drink to that :pac:

No6

Looking forward to it!!

RKQ

Well done Smashey!
We need to have this forum.

We have so much to discuss, we need a forum to swap ideas.
I came on this site to start debate and discussion.
I have no intention of starting a "New Group".

Let the open, frank and honest debate begin!
Well done to all concerned...

smashey

Okay, I've been in touch with Vexorg again and we have it ironed out. Vex suggested we make it a sub forum of this one and I think that is the way to go.

I also asked him to shorten the name to Arch Tech discussion as this will cover both technicians and technologists.

As it stands now, it will be created the next time Vexorg logs in.

archtech

Great !

muffler

smashey wrote: »

As it stands now, it will be created the next time Vexorg logs in.

Didn't he emigrate at the weekend?

Black Bear 66

Just a quick hello and congrats to RKQ on starting this thread. I myself am a self employed architectural technician (c. 7 years) and feel strongly about the whole issue. I would like to see something positive being done to protect our standing and the future of our occupation. Albeit, I do feel that the majority of architectural technicians are happy to work for an architect within an office environment and not look outside of the box too much. So I do feel it is time for those who are either self-employed or PAYE workers (interested in protecting the future of our occupation) to collectively get our ideas together. Just to say that I am here to help in any way that I can as an individual and in my capacity as a aelf-employed architectural technician.:)

Slig

Is it up yet? or have I just missed it

No6

Still waiting for an announcement, anyone going to Dublin on thursday for this

RIAI ARCHITECTURAL TECHNICIAN COMMITTEE MEETING in DIT (Room 259) on THURSDAY 19 JUNE following RIAI CPD lecture at 4.00pm. Your attendance is important and would be welcome.
In case you have not yet received an invitation, we wish to inform you that the RIAI Architectural Technician Committee has organised a meeting of the RIAI Architectural Technician membership which will take place in Room 259 DIT Bolton Street on Thursday 19 June.
The meeting is open to all architectural technicians and technologists, whether members of the RIAI or not.

topcatcbr

No6 wrote: »

Still waiting for an announcement, anyone going to Dublin on thursday for this

RIAI ARCHITECTURAL TECHNICIAN COMMITTEE MEETING in DIT (Room 259) on THURSDAY 19 JUNE following RIAI CPD lecture at 4.00pm. Your attendance is important and would be welcome.
In case you have not yet received an invitation, we wish to inform you that the RIAI Architectural Technician Committee has organised a meeting of the RIAI Architectural Technician membership which will take place in Room 259 DIT Bolton Street on Thursday 19 June.
The meeting is open to all architectural technicians and technologists, whether members of the RIAI or not.

I hope to make it

topcatcbr

Black Bear 66 wrote: »

Just a quick hello and congrats to RKQ on starting this thread. I myself am a self employed architectural technician (c. 7 years) and feel strongly about the whole issue. I would like to see something positive being done to protect our standing and the future of our occupation. Albeit, I do feel that the majority of architectural technicians are happy to work for an architect within an office environment and not look outside of the box too much. So I do feel it is time for those who are either self-employed or PAYE workers (interested in protecting the future of our occupation) to collectively get our ideas together. Just to say that I am here to help in any way that I can as an individual and in my capacity as a aelf-employed architectural technician.:)

Welcome black Bear.

Slig

Aside from providing representation, what is the purpose of joining an institution.
Will they keep me up to date with regulations that affect me, eg. health and safety regs, building regs etc.?
Will they provide me with details of CPDs?
What else will they do?

muffler

Slig wrote: »

Is it up yet? or have I just missed it

Unfortunately a small delay. Everything is in place for the forum but I think Vexorg is on holidays at the moment so it should be up and running in the next few days when he gets back.

We always afford Vex the honour of switching on the lights

save energy

The case for joining an Institution

Hopefully Lobby for acceptance of compliance and Practical completion certs from Arch Tech Graduates with experience and post-graduate professional practice diploma, negotiate rates and conditions for PI insurance, improve the standard and perception of the trade of Technologist, to make it a Profession with a code of conduct. Register the title Architectural Technologist with an Amendment to the Building Control Bill 2005. Most importantly they need to develop Arch Tech's as experts in building physics and energy use.

professional body, Definition

Trade association of an organized profession (accounting, law, medicine, etc.) that certifies successful completion of its requirements, and thereupon awards a license and bestows a recognized appellation (Chartered Accountant, Attorney at Law, Doctor Of Medicine, etc.). Professional bodies usually prescribe a discretionary or mandatory code of conduct for their members. These bodies exercise political control over their membership, and have monopoly over the profession's formal education, certification, licensing, symbols, etc.

sydthebeat

Professional Representative Body = Recognition

RKQ

I would hope that our Professional Body would provide everything that all other Professional bodies provide our construction industry peers.

1. Recognition of Profession.
2. Advice and backup to all members, on all aspects.
3. In-house training courses.
4. Regular CPD at local centres around the country.
5. P.I insurance.
6. Representation at Government level. Proactive in new laws / Regulations.
7. Representation on Building Control Advising Body.
8. Representation on College Course / inspecting body.
9. Ability to discuss problems with Councils, Banks etc
10. Everything its members want! Decided democratically.

Has the debate begun?
I hope so....

No6

False passports for when we have to flee the country?? sure its only 40 or 50 million!!!!.... sorry RKQ I couldn't help it!! seriously though any body professional or otherwise is only as good as its members if we all just sit there and wait for someone else to get it happening it never will there are currently three options out there RIAI, CIAT & IATGN (in no order of preference!!) get involved in one or all of them

RKQ

Hi No6, glad to see you on these pages!

Just been on the IATGN site but no Forum page!
At least the RIAI tech details are there... the only news since April!

I'm sure the National Committee is strong and active but the web site lets it down badly.

As a member of the IATGN, I am eager to know how the IATGN is getting on.
When, if ever, will the forums be up and running?
The IATGN needs to actively communicate with its members.

Open positive debate and active communication is the way forward.

I agree that people need to join one or all of the above.
We also need to get involved... its our future.

Do we want a say in it?

topcatcbr

One of the big problems I can see with both RIAI and CIAT is that they do not fully recognise the Irish Arch tech qualifications

RIAI only recognise awards from DIT & WIT whereas CIAT will only recognise UU qualification.

This situation is not in the interest of the Irish professional Arch Tech and would be one of the first things that should be addressed by an Irish Institution.
Another thing we need is for a part time evening & weekend Course for those Arch Techs with only a diploma course to be brought up to Hons Degree level. Hons Degree in Arch Tech was not available in ireland before 2003. AFAIK. and unless you live in the south east Cork or Waterford is still not.

archtech

topcatcbr wrote: »

RIAI only recognise awards from DIT & WIT whereas CIAT will only recognise UU qualification..

CIAT's reconition of Irish courses was discussed here a few moths ago . In Summary WIT is in the process of gaining accreditation with CIAT for the Bsc (Hons) Degree (level 8). With regard to DIT's the problem is that the DIT course is unfortunately only a level 7 course in FETAC's accreditation and in short CIAT's hands are tied in accrediting the course until it becomes level 8.


As regards why we need a professional body there's many reasons.

• Professional Representation
• Set Educational Standards for the future professionals
• Cpd & training of existing professionals
• Professional standards for members, code of conducts etc
• Support + advice for members (contract admin/ general practice advise etc)

Regarding who's best to provide that professional body, I don't believe that one Institute will "fit all". Furthermore I'm not sure how many of use will actually join, I would be very surprised if more than 1000 members joined. (hope I'm wrong), unless of course the title of Architectural Technican/Technologist becomes a registered title under the building control bill.

RKQ

Can we expect the Government to register the title Architectural Technician under the building control bill? When we can't decide what to call ourselves.

We were trained as Architectural Technicians. Then an Organisation in another country got a Charter from a Queen. This Organisation wanted to differenciate itself from other Architectural Technicians around the world, so they invented the term Architectural Technologist and provided a Degree.

Do we really need to copy this organisation? ( What do the French, Spanish or Germans call Architectural Technicians)

Secondly if the Public don't know what a Technician is, how will they understand the term Technologist?

Thirdly, how can we expect a Registered Name for a group thats not a recognised Profession ( hate to say it ) We can't say we are as organised and influencial as Building Surveyors, Quantity Surveyors or Architects.

Unfortunately we will need course recognition and similar standards, a Irish organisation,etc before we can even dream of registered title! Sitting back and waiting for someone else to do something, just won't work.

archtech

Regarding the debate as to what we call ourselves, for the moment we shouldn't be focusing on that, an organisation representing Architectural Technology is more important at this stage. whether its technician/technologist or technician architect or whatever at these terms can be decided when the structure is in place and the various levels of membership within the institute are determined.

The architectural technology profession is a relatively new profession compared to Architect and hasn't sold itself so it would be hard for the public to know what we do. this is mostly properly due to the fact that we as a profession haven't promoted ourselves in the past. When have you ever seen a project board with architectural technician/technologist on it, most architectural technicians/technologists promote their business are "Architectural Services or Consultants"... so if we're not prepared to promote our own profession using our titles it will be hard for the public to know what we are.

Chartered membership is accepted within the Construction profession in Ireland. We have

• Chartered Architect
• Chartered Engineer
• Chartered Surveyor

so I don't have any issue with becoming a Chartered Architectural Technologist, nor Irish Architectural Technology professionals beginning members of CIAT, most surveyors are members of the RICS. Theres lot of chartered engineers and architects about Ireland too.

Totally agree with we need similar standards in the education of Architectural Technology in Ireland which we are currently not seeing outside of WIT and DIT at present. Some of the standards in the so call architectural technology courses at present are very poor when measured against a "similar award" from a more established institute.

Mellor

RKQ wrote: »

Can we expect the Government to register the title Architectural Technician under the building control bill? When we can't decide what to call ourselves.

Its nothing to do with decision on name, its about separating the two sides, those who want to advance and those who don't. Thats how it started, I would hope we are all in the one boat now.
As for registering, is it possible to retrospectivly add it to the Act or SI

We were trained as Architectural Technicians.

I wasn't. I was aware of the difference during training.

Then an Organisation in another country got a Charter from a Queen. This Organisation wanted to differenciate itself from other Architectural Technicians around the world, so they invented the term Architectural Technologist and provided a Degree

.
This isn't true, the BIAT was chartered only a few years ago, Early 2006 or late 2005. The term technologist exists since the 80s.

The term technician was the original, and is a little subservient in most industries. When our skills and abilities started to expand into more dedicated work the possibility of a true expert role emerged. Sadly, some people decided to remain content in their pre-existing role and others wanted to push it further (as we all do now I hope). So to highlight that a new name was created to distinguish advancement, the original proposal was technical architect but clashed with title registration, so we got technoligist.

Do we really need to copy this organisation? ( What do the French, Spanish or Germans call Architectural Technicians)

Various other names, I believe the fen is "projecteur", and other countries have similar.
The reason we copied the UK is simply because we are an english speaking country. This is obvious and the hostile attitude doesn't help imo.

Thirdly, how can we expect a Registered Name for a group thats not a recognised Profession ( hate to say it ) We can't say we are as organised and influencial as Building Surveyors, Quantity Surveyors or Architects.

no recognaised, can you explain that, as I must be misunderstanding.

Unfortunately we will need course recognition and similar standards, a Irish organisation,etc before we can even dream of registered title! Sitting back and waiting for someone else to do something, just won't work.[/QUOTE]
Nobody is suggesting an accross the board recognition, that would be foolish. But their are two accredited AT courses. That is fact, they have been regcognaised as being better than the rest, yet we practise, they get nothing.

topcatcbr

Should we now move this thread to arch tech

No6

Lads I think that this body is already putting itself in place, isn't that what the IATN is doing, setting up the ATI in line with the 5 year plan published last year. It may not be quick enough for some of us but they're about two years ahead of nothing and have put a huge ammount of work into it. I also have to say CIAT in Ireland is run an Irish comittee. Neither organisation can get or will ever get the recognition we all feel we deserve if they don't get numbers to join, CIAT has about 300 to 400 members, IATGN has 1600 but when they have to pay a few hundred euros a year for the ATI how many will that become? Anybody go to the RIAI meeting in Bolton street last night, if so how did it go?

muffler

topcatcbr wrote: »

Should we now move this thread to arch tech

Yip. Good idea.

RKQ

I'm a member of the IATGN and am not sure it still exists!
No web page forum, little or no news, no communication! I understand people are busy but surely they can communicate with their members....

Still to read an answer to the question :-
Can we expect the Government to register the title Architectural Technician under the building control bill? When we can't decide what to call ourselves.

The Government can't and won't register a name, until its clear what it is. Will "progressive" ology types frown on sub servant "Technician" or will we all have to become "Technologists"? Its everything to do with name!

Mellor please explain "This is obvious and the hostile attitude doesn't help imo". Can we then join a USA organisation? I don't understand the reference to hostile, as I tried not to mention the country. I was around in the 80's and didn't come across the term till it was invented by CIAT.

With regard to French or Spanish or German organisations, I feel if we were more interested in Europe / Germany in the past, we might now be more familiar with air tightness, higher insulation standards etc.

I understand why we looked to the UK in 80's for employment and their Building Regulations but now we have our own Building Control system and we must align it with the best in Europe.

Likewise with CIAT, if its the best in Europe fine, if not, lets seek out the best. The same goes for "Chartered" if its the best standard, otherwise ditch the old class world crap.

I've nothing against CIAT, they seem to have an excellent group in Ireland. Well organised.
Maybe I can not deny or confirm membership.

I'd appreciate it if you could answer my post without childishly quoting each line. I trust we are professional adults taking part in a positive and honest debate. I am discussing issues in general to get honest feedback.

Motivation to improve, advertise or standardise our Profession is lacking!

sydthebeat

As far as i was led to believe, the term architectural technician or architectural technologist does not exist anywhere, its not recognized. Therefore how does one differentiate themselves as either a technician or technologist?

mellor, you say 'we got technologist'.... who gave this title out?
What advancement do you claim happened to distinguish between a technician and technologist?