KRM shopping centre...WHEN will the decision be made?????

Sully

You would think that KRM could do something about the delays tho.. is there nothing they can do to prevent it?

Roen

All that shower of Lisa Simpsons up in the WASICD have to do is delay things long enough for the economic downturn to work it's 'magic' and pretty much anyone with the means to invest in the city will have buggered off somewhere else.

fricatus

Roen wrote: »

All that shower of Lisa Simpsons up in the WASICD have to do is delay things long enough for the economic downturn to work it's 'magic' and pretty much anyone with the means to invest in the city will have buggered off somewhere else.

Please... don't insult Lisa Simpson. She may be sensitive, idealistic and care for the environment, but she's also intelligent and practical, something the WASICD are not.

jimmytheman

ABP - Newgate letter 1.jpg

ABP - Newgate letter 2.jpg

ABP - Newgate letter 3.jpg

read this --- its from bord planeala today -
makes for grim reading!!!!
sorry

KingLoser

hey jimmy,

are you sure this isn't a letter from pleanala to an appealant asking for more information and clarification on their appeal?

...or did i just read all that completely wrong?

Sully

Seems to be.. and they dont like the size of the hotel. I would trust the Boards decision or requests compared to the council tho.

jimmytheman

but when will the poor lads in KRM get a decision ---
if they pull out this town is ****ed!!!!
sorry for the language -
but it really annoys me -
this is a much needed city centre amienity

foot fall in city centre has fallen 38% compated with same time last year !

WE NEED LOTS OF NEW RETAIL IN CITY CENTRE
and we need it asap

BBM77

WLR were trying to sensationalize it on the news today but I think it is not too bad. There does not seem to be a reduction in the number of shops which is the most badly needed part of the development. Also An Bord Pleanala stated that the area is suitable for a shopping development. I think overall it is positive news. The further delays are frustrating alright but KRM seem to be determined to see the centre to the end so that is some reassurance.

Sully

Ballybrickenman wrote: »

WLR were trying to sensationalize it on the news today but I think it is not too bad. There does not seem to be a reduction in the number of shops which is the most badly needed part of the development. Also An Bord Pleanala stated that the area is suitable for a shopping development. I think overall it is positive news. The further delays are frustrating alright but KRM seem to be determined to see the centre to the end so that is some reassurance.

Slow news day then?

sunnyse

Ballybrickenman wrote: »

The further delays are frustrating alright but KRM seem to be determined to see the centre to the end so that is some reassurance.

I wouldn't think they have much choice at this stage, the interest repayments alone must be huge and add on professional fees on top then they've put a fortune into this. It wouldn't surprise me to see the site go up for sale once permission is eventually granted. from experience I know enthusiasm for projects like this can run out within a company if it's dragged out over years.

Freddie59

Roen wrote: »

All that shower of Lisa Simpsons up in the WASICD have to do is delay things long enough for the economic downturn to work it's 'magic' and pretty much anyone with the means to invest in the city will have buggered off somewhere else.

And lets not forget the Waterford Council of 'Trade Unions':rolleyes:. FFS it's straight out of Fr. Ted. And organisation claimning to represent union members objecting to something which will generate hundreds of jobs.

WTF?! I'm a union member for over 30 years and no-one asked for my opinion either verbally or in the shape of a democratic ballot. They certainly do not represent me or the majority of union members who are in favour of this development.

Then you have sitting councillors rowing in behind them. It's even an affront to Fr. Ted.:mad:

Bards

The last bit on Page 3. worries me - Quote "It should be noted that any response received may be circulated and may require a new public notice"

for this -'read' new oral hearing and expectant delays of upwards of 12 months or more.:mad::mad:

Bduffman

Is it just me or shouldn't some of these problems been forseen by the developers? I know they can't predict every possible objection but some of them (at least from the laymans point of view) seem obvious. Have these people not been involved in this kind of development before?

Freddie59

Bduffman wrote: »

Is it just me or shouldn't some of these problems been forseen by the developers? I know they can't predict every possible objection but some of them (at least from the laymans point of view) seem obvious. Have these people not been involved in this kind of development before?

You're probably right. But then you don't expect others to treat the planning process as some game of chess either.

BBM77

Bduffman wrote: »

Is it just me or shouldn't some of these problems been forseen by the developers? I know they can't predict every possible objection but some of them (at least from the laymans point of view) seem obvious. Have these people not been involved in this kind of development before?

Ah, no matter what KRM did their application would have been appealed by the people who appealed the city councils decision.

Roen

This from today's Property supplement in the Irish times

Green light for €280m Waterford centre

ELLA SHANAHAN

PLANNING&DEVELOPMENT: KRM CONSTRUCTION Partnership, developers of a proposed €280 million mixed-use commercial development in Waterford city centre, say their intention is to proceed with the development over the whole of the 5.2-acre site, in spite of a significant scaling down of their original proposal by An Bord Pleanála.

The developers say that, while disappointed with the setback, the most important point from their perspective is the acceptance that the city centre site they have assembled over several years is "suitable for the type of mixed development proposed".

But Brendan McCann, dubbed a "serial objector" because of his objections to, or observations on, a large number of developments in the Waterford city area, and one of a number of objectors to the KRM proposal, chalks this up as another success.

He says An Bord Pleanála "pretty well agrees with much of our comments on the development. It was over-scaled and inappropriate to the street scale."

An Bord Pleanála ruled that the overall height of most of the development should be reduced by 7.5 metres, around the height of a major retailing floor (about 12ft).

It said the proposed hotel should be completely redesigned and include a reduction in the overall height. It insists on the retention of buildings on both ends of the main shopping street, Michael Street, and a significant increase in the separation distance between the development and the residential properties on Alexander Street on the northern side of the development.

The residential component of the development - over 20 apartments - is to be retained.

Una Ryan of the Waterford Alliance for Sustainable Inner City Development, another objector, is happy with the board's ruling.

She points to the fact that Waterford's inner city still has a thriving residential community living in houses, rather than apartments, in quite a number of streets and across a range of housing abutting the proposed development.

John Andrews, senior planner with Waterford City Council, which rejected KRM's initial proposal, but worked closely with the developers on this second proposal, says his gut feeling is that the revisions requested do not affect the "commerciality" of the project.

He says the developers "when they saw the detail, I would say they were much more relaxed. This would have seemed to be an indication that the board are disposed to grant it."

KRM, through a spokesman, said prospective clients continued to be interested in the project.

They declined to name those clients but industry sources consider that Marks & Spencer and possibly Debenhams (who have a smaller than required shop in the former Roches Stores in City Square) may well be joint anchor tenants. Other British high street retailers, who do not yet have a presence in Waterford, could also be interested.

Research conducted by Behaviour & Attitudes, and provided by KRM, indicates, conservatively, retail leakage from Waterford of over €19.2 million per annum because of the absence of a major commercial centre in the city.

Cabaal

so its going ahead but just scalled back, we'll see in the current climate if it'll still be built

mike65

Hmm, Marks and Sparks in town on on the ORR?

The development will need a Blue Chip name.

Mike

trishw78

Excellent... Lets get this out to tender quickly 'cause I'm going to need a job in September.

Also I'd say that the working hours will be extremely tight. and don't you know that they'll be watched like hawks 1 minute over and all hell will break loose.

Sully

It hasnt got approval yet.. KRM are just promissing to stick with it.

Anywhome.. M&S already said they wont move into a city center premisses and they want to be in the ORR where there is plenty of parking.

merlante

Sully wrote: »

It hasnt got approval yet.. KRM are just promissing to stick with it.

Anywhome.. M&S already said they wont move into a city center premisses and they want to be in the ORR where there is plenty of parking.

I don't think they should be given any choice. They're not the ones who are going to pick up the pieces if Waterford becomes a doughnut city and dies from the inside out.

There will be plenty of parking as part of the development, and people will be able to avail of any other parking available in the city centre as well.

Sully

merlante wrote: »

I don't think they should be given any choice. They're not the ones who are going to pick up the pieces if Waterford becomes a doughnut city and dies from the inside out.

There will be plenty of parking as part of the development, and people will be able to avail of any other parking available in the city centre as well.

I don't know if this was even made public, but it seems to be fairly well known that they wanted to but the council and McCannt wanted it in the city centre and they wanted to be out in the ORR. They didn't get their way so they left for Clonmel. Apparently, that's the way all their stores are now - they want people to have decent parking so they can bring out their shopping.

Maybe if KRM addresses this issue, they will re-consider? I have my doubts tho.

Psychedelic

yeah you're right. basically marks & spencers said they want an outer city site or nothing. they should have been told to go fúck themselves, cheek of them thinking they can blackmail our city.

yet it seems people badly want marks & spencers. i have to ask why? i don't think i've ever been in any of their stores, but what the hell is so special about them? price and selection? i'd say if we got m&s people would get bored after a while and would be looking for the next big brand to locate here.

deisemum

Psychedelic wrote: »

yeah you're right. basically marks & spencers said they want an outer city site or nothing. they should have been told to go fúck themselves, cheek of them thinking they can blackmail our city.

yet it seems people badly want marks & spencers. i have to ask why? i don't think i've ever been in any of their stores, but what the hell is so special about them? price and selection? i'd say if we got m&s people would get bored after a while and would be looking for the next big brand to locate here.

Marks & Spencer is my favourite shop. Their customer service and quality of it's products is superior to most other shops I've ever been in.

trishw78

M&S is brilliant far superior than Dunnes infact in days gone by you could call Dunnes the poor mans M&S.

It was and is the highlight of the shopping trip to Cork and Dublin for a lot of people.

CantGetNoSleep

M&S food is delicious

Maybe if any possible City Centre site they wanted to open in was allowed to built then they might consider that rather than the ORR

KingLoser

Why do I get the feeling that some people in this town would bend over and allow M&S to build a shop up their sh*thole if they asked.....?

BBM77

KingLoser wrote: »

Why do I get the feeling that some people in this town would bend over and allow M&S to build a shop up their sh*thole if they asked.....?

Because you are right! I had this conversation with a number of people. No matter what you say like - it has been shown that allowing places like this on the outskirts does more damage than good to a city. It all boils down to the same answer from these people – I don’t care what damage it does, as long as M&S comes. A selfish attitude or what.:(

trishw78

I see in this weeks Waterford Today the city council are going to be doing some sort of survey with the businesses in the city centre to see what can be done to improve the situation

fricatus

trishw78 wrote: »

I see in this weeks Waterford Today the city council are going to be doing some sort of survey with the businesses in the city centre to see what can be done to improve the situation

I read in Wednesday's Irish Times property supplement that there's a big nationwide retail survey about to happen - apparently this is the biggest that's ever taken place in this country. Maybe someone has a link or knows what it's called? It was a borrowed copy of the paper that I was reading, so I don't have it any more.

By the way - and this is from memory - the biggest shopping destinations in the country are as follows:

1. Dublin city
2. Cork city
3. Dundrum (750)
4. Limerick city
5. Galway city (450)
6. Blanchardstown
7. Liffey Valley
8. Waterford city (380)
9. Swords (360)

I think that's right, and the figures are approximate (once again from memory) and are in millions of euro spent.

Once again, if anyone has a link to the actual information, it would be great to tell us where we stand. I don't know how far ahead Blanch or LV are, but surely we can leapfrog them with this KRM thing?