Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2008/2009

hunter164

The one good thing about it is England aren't in Euro 2008 so he can't have gret performances there which means his price don't go up.

mormank

'so called big club'???? ya. we are currently the top ranked team in europe. go away troll

invincibleirish

Im not a troll and i dont care about Liverpools status as a big club, i care about their clumsy and awkward attempts at tapping up Barry and then trying to play hardball with Villa over the price. If The top 3 wanted Barry they would pay what was demanded, not Liverpool, from that i deduce they cannot afford a straight cash deal, empirical evidence so far supports my assertions.

mormank

if u dont care then why post what u did. you knew it was a stupid remark! liverpool dont pay over the odds. so what?? aresnal are the same. so its really just utd and chelski u are talkin about. both have almost bottomless pits of money. they are the exception, not the rule

Kimbot

invincibleirish wrote: »

Im not a troll and i dont care about Liverpools status as a big club, i care about their clumsy and awkward attempts at tapping up Barry and then trying to play hardball with Villa over the price. If The top 3 wanted Barry they would pay what was demanded, not Liverpool, from that i deduce they cannot afford a straight cash deal, empirical evidence so far supports my assertions.

Sorry but if I remember rightly Villa are trying to go under the £10 Million fee they agreed with Liverpool last season for Carson so Rafa is doing the same with Barry. As far as I am concerned thats a decent bit of thinking from Rafa. Technically if Villa paid 10 for Carson we are getting Barry for in and around 5 Million.

zing

They made an initial cash + player bid and from that you deduce that they can't afford a straight cash deal ? Whether or not they can that's one hell of a leap to make..

gucci

invincibleirish wrote: »

If The top 3 wanted Barry they would pay what was demanded, not Liverpool,.

If the top 3 wanted Barry his price would be ridiculous. Sure maybe Liverpool shouldnt buy him, if hes not good enough for the top 3 then what do they want him for?

invincibleirish

jonny24ie wrote: »

Sorry but if I remember rightly Villa are trying to go under the £10 Million fee they agreed with Liverpool last season for Carson so Rafa is doing the same with Barry. As far as I am concerned thats a decent bit of thinking from Rafa. Technically if Villa paid 10 for Carson we are getting Barry for in and around 5 Million.

MON isnt going to pay 10m for Carson, he's gone back to Liverpool.

invincibleirish

zing wrote: »

They made an initial cash + player bid and from that you deduce that they can't afford a straight cash deal ? Whether or not they can that's one hell of a leap to make..

well after Rafas pathetic attempts at tapping up Barry through the usual LFC mouthpieces he went and offered a rubbish deal for Barry that was dismissed out of hand by MON, you might think this is clever tactics, i see it as wasting time. Do you really think MON is going to settle for a sub par deal? remember MON is the man who got 11.5m out of Liverpool for Heskey and is in the position of strength. If Liverpool are to be taken seriously then they should start talking serious money.

Mr Alan

invincibleirish wrote: »

well after Rafas pathetic attempts at tapping up Barry through the usual LFC mouthpieces he went and offered a rubbish deal for Barry that was dismissed out of hand by MON.

Liverpool made a bid for Barry about a week before MON broke the story publically, hardly classed as tapping up, but lets not let that get in the way of your anger.

Cyrus

invincibleirish wrote: »

well after Rafas pathetic attempts at tapping up Barry through the usual LFC mouthpieces he went and offered a rubbish deal for Barry that was dismissed out of hand by MON, you might think this is clever tactics, i see it as wasting time. Do you really think MON is going to settle for a sub par deal? remember MON is the man who got 11.5m out of Liverpool for Heskey and is in the position of strength. If Liverpool are to be taken seriously then they should start talking serious money.

barry will join liverpool, and we will get a good deal, why?

because he wants to leave

deal with it, and enjoy riise and carson :cool:

Handsome Bob

To be fair, an offer to £8M-£10M plus the choice of Crouch (valued at £10M) or Pennant (£5M-£6M) is not a "rubbish" deal. Anyone who thinks that that is a rubbish deal must also think that West Brom were right to demand over £10m from Arsenal last season for Curtis Davies.......

IrishMike

invincibleirish wrote: »

well after Rafas pathetic attempts at tapping up Barry through the usual LFC mouthpieces he went and offered a rubbish deal for Barry that was dismissed out of hand by MON, you might think this is clever tactics, i see it as wasting time. Do you really think MON is going to settle for a sub par deal? remember MON is the man who got 11.5m out of Liverpool for Heskey and is in the position of strength. If Liverpool are to be taken seriously then they should start talking serious money.

Tapping up Barry?
He lodged a formal bid through the proper channels which MON decided to
publicly rubbish in a press conference
May i ask how on earth that is considered tapping up.
Oh and by the way when a player wants to leave a club, that does not put
them in "a position of strength".
Stop your damn trolling for crying out loud, if Barry wants to leave Liverpool will get him for £12m or so.
Probably end up being £5m + Crouch which is not a bad deal for either side.

Boggles

LZ5by5 wrote: »

To be fair, an offer to £8M-£10M plus the choice of Crouch (valued at £10M) or Pennant (£5M-£6M) is not a "rubbish" deal. Anyone who thinks that that is a rubbish deal must also think that West Brom were right to demand over £10m from Arsenal last season for Curtis Davies.......

.

Crouch certainly would be a great signing IMO, but with Villa already having a big striker, I can't see him fitting in. As for Pennant Blah, no Villa fan is going to get excited about that.

IrishMike

Boggles wrote: »

.

Crouch certainly would be a great signing IMO, but with Villa already having a big striker, I can't see him fitting in. As for Pennant Blah, no Villa fan is going to get excited about that.

Would honestly be disappointed to see pennant leave the club.
If he does leave it would be for aroun £6m which is small money when you
consider the lack of wingers there are
He has huge potential but never seems to consistently deliver.
Played very very well in the last few games of the season, would like to
see him being given another chance to be honest unless we push the boat
out and sign a top quality winger in his place.
Think its kinda pointless selling pennant and replacing him with someone like
Riera or Bentley neither of whom are world class.

invincibleirish

Mr Alan wrote: »

Liverpool made a bid for Barry about a week before MON broke the story publically, hardly classed as tapping up, but lets not let that get in the way of your anger.

MON publicly ridiculed Liverpools offer after weeks of media speculation(driven by the Liverpool media) citing it was a done deal. whilst the tapping up on Barry may not be official, the manner in which Liverpool have chosen to conduct this transfer has been distasteful, unsettling a player and then trying to buy on the cheap and manipulating the media to conduct their dealings, unfortunately its indicative of the way the PL has become.

Handsome Bob

Boggles wrote: »

.

Crouch certainly would be a great signing IMO, but with Villa already having a big striker, I can't see him fitting in. As for Pennant Blah, no Villa fan is going to get excited about that.

Agreed. It's interesting how MON described the deal as cash + a "mish mash" offer of players. Mish mash would lead me to believe that more than one player was on offer. Now, if Liverpool offered £8m plus 2 players out of Carson, Pennant, Crouch andd Riise that is an excellent offer. Pennant on his own not great but Carson AND Pennant would be fantastic (especially since Liverpool value Carson at £10m, that's £10m they can keep).

For MON to describe that as a poor deal is beyond me. I have huge disdain for this extortion policy that surrounds english players.

invincibleirish

LZ5by5 wrote: »

To be fair, an offer to £8M-£10M plus the choice of Crouch (valued at £10M) or Pennant (£5M-£6M) is not a "rubbish" deal. Anyone who thinks that that is a rubbish deal must also think that West Brom were right to demand over £10m from Arsenal last season for Curtis Davies.......

Crouch & Pennant are 2nd rate players, why do you think MON didnt want them? Curtis Davies was bought in by MON and was a success before he got injured, that 10m wont look crazy in a year or two.

Handsome Bob

invincibleirish wrote: »

MON publicly ridiculed Liverpools offer after weeks of media speculation(driven by the Liverpool media) citing it was a done deal. whilst the tapping up on Barry may not be official, the manner in which Liverpool have chosen to conduct this transfer has been distasteful, unsettling a player and then trying to buy on the cheap and manipulating the media to conduct their dealings, unfortunately its indicative of the way the PL has become.

Distasteful? I wouldn't say that. For distasteful, Brian Reade's column in last saturday's Mirror is an excellent read, an insight into what "bullying" tactics really are in forcing clubs to sell players.

Boggles

IrishMike wrote: »

W
He has huge potential but never seems to consistently deliver.

Agreed he has huge potential, but similar to Keiran Richardson he is no way consistent enough.

Pennat is 25 now so I think he is too old to be keeping him because of potential, if Liverpool do get 6 million for him it will be a great deal because thats more or less what they paid for him.

IrishMike

invincibleirish wrote: »

Crouch & Pennant are 2nd rate players, why do you think MON didnt want them? Curtis Davies was bought in by MON and was a success before he got injured, that 10m wont look crazy in a year or two.

Crouch is an English international with an exceptional scoring record who is being trailed by Portsmouth, Newcastle, Juventus etc.
2nd rate? I dont really think so.
Proven premiership striker with a very very good goalscoring record.

invincibleirish

IrishMike wrote: »

Tapping up Barry?
He lodged a formal bid through the proper channels which MON decided to
publicly rubbish in a press conference
May i ask how on earth that is considered tapping up.
Oh and by the way when a player wants to leave a club, that does not put
them in "a position of strength".
Stop your damn trolling for crying out loud, if Barry wants to leave Liverpool will get him for £12m or so.
Probably end up being £5m + Crouch which is not a bad deal for either side.

:rolleyes:yes as he was making his bid (described by MON as 'absolutely crazy', Liverpool were filtering news to the press that a deal was done whilst MON had dismissed the deal out of hand and Liverpools derisory offer.

have a read here of events, you'll find references on Villas position of strength and the useless players offered by Rafa.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2008/05/09/ufnvilla109.xml

zing

you might think this is clever tactics, i see it as wasting time. Do you really think MON is going to settle for a sub par deal? remember MON is the man who got 11.5m out of Liverpool for Heskey and is in the position of strength. If Liverpool are to be taken seriously then they should start talking serious money.

I don't think it clever or otherwise - I see it simply as bargaining. Make an initial offer and based on the response come back with a revised one, and so on until both parties are happy with the outcome.

The days of Heskey, Diouf, Diao, etc.. are over - these days LFC will not pay over the odds for players and we've seen plenty of examples of that over the last few years (Avles, Malouda, etc..) - if the fee gets too much they'll just walk away. MON is in a position of strength not but only until the day Barry tells him he wants to leave - his position changes straight away then.

King John V

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Now, if Liverpool offered £8m plus 2 players out of Carson, Pennant, Crouch andd Riise that is an excellent offer.

It's an excellent offer for Villa but it's hardly an even deal. Admittedly none of the list are world class but Crouch is worth £7-10m, Pennant at least £5-6m and Riise £4-5m. That would rate Barry at £20m or more...no chance.

invincibleirish

IrishMike wrote: »

Crouch is an English international with an exceptional scoring record who is being trailed by Portsmouth, Newcastle, Juventus etc.
2nd rate? I dont really think so.
Proven premiership striker with a very very good goalscoring record.

Barry is an England regular & occasional captain,and is a Club captain with 2 years on his contract, Liverpool think 10m is enough to part Barry from Villa, a club newly enriched and not having to worry about selling before buying (unlike some;)).

Carrick & Hargreaves both fit a similar profile to Barry, they went for higher sums then 10, Barry is in the 16m-20m bracket in todays market, Liverpool may not think he is worth that, but why should Villa sell on the cheap?

Handsome Bob

invincibleirish wrote: »

:rolleyes:yes as he was making his bid (described by MON as 'absolutely crazy', Liverpool were filtering news to the press that a deal was done whilst MON had dismissed the deal out of hand and Liverpools derisory offer.

have a read here of events, you'll find references on Villas position of strength and the useless players offered by Rafa.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2008/05/09/ufnvilla109.xml

No-one knows what the exact details of the deal was. Some media outlets have claimed it was £8m plus a choice of two players out of Crouch, Pennant, Riise and Carson. If AV took £8m plus Crouch valued at £10m and Carson who is valued at £10m that's a total of £28m. MON is just desperately trying to hang on to his best player, and I don't blame him for that. But please don't try and describe a deal that you don't know anything about as "out of hand", especially if some media outlets are to be believed in what the deal actually was.

King John V

invincibleirish wrote: »

Carrick & Hargreaves both fit a similar profile to Barry, they went for higher sums then 10, Barry is in the 16m-20m bracket in todays market, Liverpool may not think he is worth that, but why should Villa sell on the cheap?

The media publicity was unnesecary but £10m is an obvious opening bid. I'm sure Rafa would go to 15m or slightly more if needed. £15m certainly wouldn't be cheap. While he's a class player, at 26/27 his resale potential is only going to go down hill over the next number of years. It hardly makes sense to pay more than that imo.

invincibleirish

zing wrote: »

I don't think it clever or otherwise - I see it simply as bargaining. Make an initial offer and based on the response come back with a revised one, and so on until both parties are happy with the outcome.

The days of Heskey, Diouf, Diao, etc.. are over - these days LFC will not pay over the odds for players and we've seen plenty of examples of that over the last few years (Avles, Malouda, etc..) - if the fee gets too much they'll just walk away. MON is in a position of strength not but only until the day Barry tells him he wants to leave - his position changes straight away then.

Its crude in that Liverpool made an offer, it was rejected by MON, Liverpool then conducted a media campaign implying it was a done deal, when it wasnt. The issue here isnt whether or not Barrys head has been turned, it has (Stevie G whispering sweet nothings in his ear), the issue is that this has been dragged out by Liverpool in the hope Villa will eventually succumb and accept a bad deal. They wont, Villa are just waiting for the right offer on their terms, not Liverpools.

mike65

Quickie question - could Barry buy-out his contract?

Mike.

IrishMike

invincibleirish wrote: »

Barry is an England regular & occasional captain,and is a Club captain with 2 years on his contract, Liverpool think 10m is enough to part Barry from Villa, a club newly enriched and not having to worry about selling before buying (unlike some;)).

Carrick & Hargreaves both fit a similar profile to Barry, they went for higher sums then 10, Barry is in the 16m-20m bracket in todays market, Liverpool may not think he is worth that, but why should Villa sell on the cheap?

Carrick & Hargreaves do not fit a similiar profile to Barry.
Carrick was 24, an England international and was after a brilliant season with
Spurs which tempted United to pay over the odds for him.
Hargreaves was after winning yet another championship with bayern, had
played countless times in the CL and was proven at the highest level.
He was also 26 a year younger than Barry.

Barry has never played in the CL and has only 20 england caps in 8 years.
The offer was not "insulting" as you consistently say.

Handsome Bob

King John V wrote: »

It's an excellent offer for Villa but it's hardly an even deal. Admittedly none of the list are world class but Crouch is worth £7-10m, Pennant at least £5-6m and Riise £4-5m. That would rate Barry at £20m or more...no chance.

Totally and wholeheartedly agree. What I was trying to say is that for MON to describe the deal as poor is just a smokescreen. Barry is meant to be the foundation for making Villa a great team. It could be pyschological blow of significant proportions to the AV if he's sold. MON is just saying it is a poor deal because he simply doesn't want to sell, and I can't blame him for that. He is very clever in how he went public because I'm not sure if Rafa will go for a public mudslinging match if it gets any uglier.

invincibleirish

LZ5by5 wrote: »

But please don't try and describe a deal that you don't know anything about as "out of hand", especially if some media outlets are to be believed in what the deal actually was.

Im going on MONs comments, you do realise he generally conducts himself in a pleasant manner, particularly in relation to other clubs and sensitive transfer dealings. He has used aggressive language in relation to Liverpools tactics on the Barry transfer because Liverpool have being acting in a distasteful manner.

zing

Where's this media campaign that you go on about ? All I remember reading was MON & Rafa clairfying and counter clarifying each others remarks. Did I miss something else along the way ?

Mr Alan

invincibleirish wrote: »

Im going on MONs comments, you do realise he generally conducts himself in a pleasant manner.

as does Rafa.

invincibleirish wrote: »

He has used aggressive language in relation to Liverpools tactics on the Barry transfer because Liverpool have being acting in a distasteful manner.

he used aggressive language cause he does not want to lose his captain/best player.

Tusky

invincibleirish wrote: »

Im going on MONs comments, you do realise he generally conducts himself in a pleasant manner, particularly in relation to other clubs and sensitive transfer dealings. He has used aggressive language in relation to Liverpools tactics on the Barry transfer because Liverpool have being acting in a distasteful manner.

OR maybe he is just seriously pissed off thats its highly likely his best player and captain will leave the club ? When you are trying to build something it must be very annoying when the teams above you, that you are trying to compete against can pretty much take any of your players.

invincibleirish

IrishMike wrote: »

Carrick & Hargreaves do not fit a similiar profile to Barry.
Carrick was 24, an England international and was after a brilliant season with
Spurs which tempted United to pay over the odds for him.
Hargreaves was after winning yet another championship with bayern, had
played countless times in the CL and was proven at the highest level.
He was also 26 a year younger than Barry.

Barry is, like Carrick & Hargreaves, an England midfielder, he has had a brilliant season(s) at Villa. thats his bracket. He has more caps then Carrick and made his England debut before Hargreaves. He has captained England and is also captain of a top 6 PL team. As i say he is easily worth £20m in todays market.

invincibleirish

mike65 wrote: »

Quickie question - could Barry buy-out his contract?

Mike.

yes he could, but AFAIK no player has done so yet.

Handsome Bob

invincibleirish wrote: »

Im going on MONs comments, you do realise he generally conducts himself in a pleasant manner, particularly in relation to other clubs and sensitive transfer dealings. He has used aggressive language in relation to Liverpools tactics on the Barry transfer because Liverpool have being acting in a distasteful manner.

Again I don't believe Liverpool have conducted themselves in anyway distasteful. MON is the one who blew his top at what was simply an offer, no signs of tapping up. MON has got ugly and Liverpool have simply called his bluff with the likes of Gerrard encouraging Barry.

But if you really want to know what distastefull transfer tactics are, have a read of this

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/columnists/reade/

Though I am against Real Madrids actions towards Ronaldo and Man U, the man who is at the centre of the article knows full well how shady transfer tactics can get, he simply doesn't like a taste of his own medicine.

zing

invincibleirish wrote: »

As i say he is easily worth £20m in todays market.

Then you've little to worry about so as unless the likes of Chelsea or Real come knocking you're very very unlikely to be selling him at that kind of money.

Boggles

If Barry goes on to achieve half of what Carrick has at United, Liverpool should bid 30 million.

2 Leagues and a Champions league in the 2 years he has been at Old Trafford, you can't argue with that.

Tusky

Dont know if its already been posted but Dossena is due at Melwood for a medical.

King John V

invincibleirish wrote: »

Barry is, like Carrick & Hargreaves, an England midfielder, he has had a brilliant season(s) at Villa. thats his bracket. He has more caps then Carrick and made his England debut before Hargreaves. He has captained England and is also captain of a top 6 PL team. As i say he is easily worth £20m in todays market.

A player's value is relative to the level of demand of the bigger club, the need to sell of the smaller club, but also the player's desire to move. So comparing various deals can be misleading. My impression of Barry is that he feels the time is right to move on and play champion's league matches. The reluctence to push things too fast to soon is down to loyalty to his current team and their fans. It reflects the decency of the man imo.

Karmafaerie

InvincibleIrish, grow up.

You do realise that both parties are lying through their teeth here right?!

MON said that he had never had contact with Liverpool.
Then Rafa pointed out that they had talked two weeks earlier.
To which MON came out and started shouting about how yes, maybe they did talk, but that it was different to Rafa's acc.

Completely ignoring the fact that a couple of days earlier he LIED and said that he had no contact at all with Liverpool, and that the first he knew about Pool's interest was reading it in the paper.

Or how about you claim that Liverpool leaked info to the press, completely ignoring the fact that the day after Liverpool faxed in an offer, it appeared in the Birmingham media.

Or did Rafa break into the Villa Park dressed up as Martin O'Neill and leak it!


Welcome to the wonderfull world of football.

As soon as your team starts to get successfull.
They become just as dirty as the rest.


Both parties are jockying for position.
Nothing more.

IrishMike

invincibleirish wrote: »

Barry is, like Carrick & Hargreaves, an England midfielder, he has had a brilliant season(s) at Villa. thats his bracket. He has more caps then Carrick and made his England debut before Hargreaves. He has captained England and is also captain of a top 6 PL team. As i say he is easily worth £20m in todays market.

£20m? Not an earthly hope he will go for anywhere near that.
If he signs for Liverpool it will be because he has told MON that he wants to leave.
If he does that then Villa have no real choice but to sell him which means
he will go for less than they would get if it was an open market bidding war.
You really seem to have a chip on your shoulder about his, Liverpool have
done nothing wrong, they have actually been suprisingly quiet about the
speculation so i have no clue why you keep getting your knickers in a knot.
As carragher would say " Calm down calm down"

King John V

Boggles wrote: »

If Barry goes on to achieve half of what Carrick has at United, Liverpool should bid 30 million.

£30m?

IrishMike

Boggles wrote: »

If Barry goes on to achieve half of what Carrick has at United, Liverpool should bid 30 million.

2 Leagues and a Champions league in the 2 years he has been at Old Trafford, you can't argue with that.

If Barry was to be the catalyst for Liverpool winning the Premiership by himself
then i dont see any Liverpool supporter having a problem with spending £30m
on him.
Problem is he wont be and neither has Carrick been for United.
He has been average or slightly above average since his arrival.
Its more the fact that Rooney, Rio and Ronaldo have all played exceptional
the past 2 years that has won United their 2 in a row.
Seriously carrick has been a small part of the reason, Evra it could be claimed
had a much bigger impact for a lot less of an outlay.

Karmafaerie

invincibleirish wrote:

Mike65 wrote:

Quickie question - could Barry buy-out his contract?

Mike.

yes he could, but AFAIK no player has done so yet.

He can't.

That's only for players of 28 and over.

Handsome Bob

Tusky wrote: »

Dont know if its already been posted but Dossena is due at Melwood for a medical.

Nice! Right, so what is the word on this guy? For £8m, I expect him to be a cut above what we already have at full back.

Boggles

King John V wrote: »

£30m?

If Liverpool win the league twice and champions league in the next 2 years with Barry at the helm, 30 million would be a bargain, no? :pac:

I think 10-12 million plus Carson will be the deal and will be a fair deal.

Savman

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Completely ignoring the fact that a couple of days earlier he LIED

Have to chime in here, cos that's utter crap. You're accusing MON of lying? Christ Jebus he's one of the few characters that has stuck to integrity and morals throughout this entire affair. The story appeared in the Liverpool Echo the morning after Liverpool faxed a bid to AVFC. A bid that was declined as it were.

Also as for this statement:

They become just as dirty as the rest.

More rubbish. Please don't drag us down to your level. You may well be the bigger club but it wouldn't do you any harm to act like it once in a while.