Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2008/2009

Chardee MacDennis

Mr Alan wrote: »

Ha Ha Ha....this has to be a pisstake?

http://www.chelsea.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=506917

while i think it is, the only thing that worries me is the validity of this statement:

Benitez has become deeply disillusioned with the complicated politics of Liverpool`s ownership and the unresolved dislike between the club`s co-owners. The fact that Messrs Gillett and Hicks are unable to be in the same room together means that Benitez` transfer plans for the summer are to be put on hold. Benitez foresees that an inability to strengthen key areas of the squad will inevitably lead to continued domestic under-achievement at Liverpool next season, with the resulting criticism.

we know rafa will walk if money isnt forthcoming as he has done before but never to chelsea, i would imagine he would go back to spain.

Bounty Hunter

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Sorry there BH.
I forgot that you obviously know ore than Rafa, and are a much more reliable source!



Villa agreed first option to buy Carson at £10,000,000.
They now want to buy him for less than £6,000,000.
They don't have to buy him if they don't want to, but they can't give out about a valuation, that they already agreed to!!!!!!!!!

strange that you seem to doubt what i said then you go on and say the same but add Villa cant change the valuation. Villa can however say sorry we dont want to take up that 10m option however if carson was being sold for half of that then maybe, and that is what they may have done. as i said i dont want Carson anyway and would prefer Jussi.

and IrishMike your right Villa will find it very hard to stop big clubs circling round young ready to swoop with bids if he continues his brilliant form from this season. but id say if Liverpool fans were surprised by Villa's valuation they certainly wouldent like how much Young would cost, he is consider our most important asset as far as playing staff is concerned. Although It does seem that Youngs talents are being appreciated just as much by fans outside of VP as by outr fans which is nice to see.

edit: just want to make sure you know im not trolling, have never made any baseless claims (i know that wasnt aimed at me) just have an opinion that is different to the average LFC fan and one that gives a different dimension to the discussion here, if you want me another clubs fan gone so be it.

Karmafaerie

Call_me_al wrote: »

while i think it is, the only thing that worries me is the validity of this statement:


we know rafa will walk if money isnt forthcoming as he has done before but never to chelsea, i would imagine he would go back to spain.

Google it.
No results.

The article talks about how there are so many reports of this, but they're the only ones reporting it.

It's all BS.

IrishMike

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

and IrishMike your right Villa will find it very hard to stop big clubs circling round young ready to swoop with bids if he continues his brilliant form from this season. but id say if Liverpool fans were surprised by Villa's valuation they certainly wouldent like how much Young would cost, he is consider our most important asset as far as playing staff is concerned. Although It does seem that Youngs talents are being appreciated just as much by fans outside of VP as by outr fans which is nice to see.

On the contrary, if SWP is worth £20m+ then Young will be worth the same if
he keeps on going the way he is going.
Consistency is what differentiates outstanding players from good players, if he
can continue in the same vein of form for the next season then his worth will skyrocket.
Given the fact that he is English will also push his price up.
Joe Cole however may see him English caps limited so that will hopefully keep
a cap on his price.

Mr Alan

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

edit: just want to make sure you know im not trolling, have never made any baseless claims (i know that wasnt aimed at me) just have an opinion that is different to the average LFC fan and one that gives a different dimension to the discussion here, if you want me another clubs fan gone so be it.

Lads, other clubs fans is wat makes things tick on this site, it obvious when someone is only saying something for a reaction, see "invincibleirish" first post on the matter for an example! accusing every rival clubs fans of it is tiresome and irritating.

Bounty Hunters contribution is very much appreciated from me anyway.

Karmafaerie

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

strange that you seem to doubt what i said then you go on and say the same but add Villa cant change the valuation. Villa can however say sorry we dont want to take up that 10m option however if carson was being sold for half of that then maybe, and that is what they may have done. as i said i dont want Carson anyway and would prefer Jussi.

I make a habit of not quoting myself, and I'm not going to start now, but take a look at what I said again please.

As I said, Villa are more than welcome to not buy him for £10,000,000.
But I'm fed up of Villa fans bitching about how Liverpool are over valuing him.
Not our problem, Villa agreed to that valuation.
Liverpool didn't twist their arm.
Can't blame Liverpool for trying to hold you to it.
Villa want to back out, okay.
Stop bitching about it though.

Chardee MacDennis

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Google it.
No results.

The article talks about how there are so many reports of this, but they're the only ones reporting it.

It's all BS.

google what? the first line is a common fact, from then on is speculation i realise but there is potential of that happening. When Dossena is confirmed it will ally(sp?) some fears.

btw Bounty Hunter we generally welcome anyone to post in here regardless of the team they support but as long as it is constructive and not obvious trolling!

Bounty Hunter

cheers Al

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I make a habit of not quoting myself, and I'm not going to start now, but take a look at what I said again please.

As I said, Villa are more than welcome to not buy him for £10,000,000.
But I'm fed up of Villa fans bitching about how Liverpool are over valuing him.
Not our problem, Villa agreed to that valuation.
Liverpool didn't twist their arm.
Can't blame Liverpool for trying to hold you to it.
Villa want to back out, okay.
Stop bitching about it though.

I never once bitched about it but i did say that there was a difference between agreeing to buy him for 10m and having a first option on him for 10m which they have since decided to not take up because he isnt worth 10m. Pool can try to tell Villa that the only price they willl accept for him is the 10m that they had as a first option but then they wont get a penny for him. anyway like i said a few times i dont want Villa to sign Carson so ill not say anyore on the subject even if you respond quoting me again*.


*well really depends on your response but i dont intend to:D

Boggles

Call_me_al wrote: »

btw Bounty Hunter we generally welcome anyone to post in here regardless of the team they support but as long as it is constructive and not obvious trolling!

What do you mean we?? The Getho mentality is really starting to piss me off, it is a soccer forum, not a Liverpool, Man United, Villa, etc forum.

Stick to the rules and stop shouting troll everytime someone says something about your choosen club, it really did get old along time ago.

Cyrus

Boggles wrote: »

What do you mean we?? The Getho mentality is really starting to piss me off, it is a soccer forum, not a Liverpool, Man United, Villa, etc forum.

Stick to the rules and stop shouting troll everytime someone says something about your choosen club, it really did get old along time ago.

whats a getho

IrishMike

Boggles wrote: »

What do you mean we?? The Getho mentality is really starting to piss me off, it is a soccer forum, not a Liverpool, Man United, Villa, etc forum.

Stick to the rules and stop shouting troll everytime someone says something about your choosen club, it really did get old along time ago.

Think they mean people saying Rafa has been a disgrace and the club
are a disgrace for the handling of the Barry transfer even though its all been
very much above board.
Think they also mean any of the following gems which are constantly repeated:
*Rafa has spent £2billion on transfers
*Liverpool were lucky to win trophy xyz over the past 5 years.
*Rafa constantly rotates his players.
*Without Gerrard and Torres Liverpool would have finished 15th.
*etc etc etc

invincibleirish

Yes im obviously trolling because i really dont want to lose Villas very good captain for very average squad players, similarly im a troll because the manner in which Liverpool have conducted this transfer i have found to be distasteful. I dont think im in a minority of one on this, so i ruffle your feathers because my opinion isnt the consensus on this forum, its the internet, we dont have to play nice.

Cyrus

invincibleirish wrote: »

Yes im obviously trolling because i really dont want to lose Villas very good captain for very average squad players, similarly im a troll because the manner in which Liverpool have conducted this transfer i have found to be distasteful. I dont think im in a minority of one on this, so i ruffle your feathers because my opinion isnt the consensus on this forum, its the internet, we dont have to play nice.

well surely if you take players in part ex MON must see them as better than squa d players?

also he was the one running to the media telling lies, why didnt he just keep schtum if he is such an honourable guy?

Mr Alan

invincibleirish wrote: »

whats really hilarious is that a so called 'big club' are struggling to come up with the filthy lucre to pay for Barry, Man Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal seemingly wouldnt have that difficulty.

invincibleirish wrote: »

It has been good fun riling the LFC thread with demands of £20M and reminding them that Liverpool & Rafa are not in fact god

you know we can read the Villa thread too?

IrishMike

invincibleirish wrote: »

Yes im obviously trolling because i really dont want to lose Villas very good captain for very average squad players, similarly im a troll because the manner in which Liverpool have conducted this transfer i have found to be distasteful. I dont think im in a minority of one on this, so i ruffle your feathers because my opinion isnt the consensus on this forum, its the internet, we dont have to play nice.

Crouch is not an average squad player, he is an established international and a proven premiership goalscorer.
Carson is Villas #1 goalkeeper.
Stop talking ****e please

invincibleirish

Mr Alan wrote: »

you know we can read the Villa thread too?

Yep, im not trying to rise you on purpose, what you qouted were in the context of Liverpool posters in this thread seemingly unawares of Liverpools actions in the media over the Barry deal.

As for Crouch & Carson, there seems to be an element of the 2nd hand car salesman about the continuing praise of them and others. Carson is currently being linked with WBA and Crouch has warmed your bench for the season (and was useless when originally with Villa), not exactly world class now is he?

Mr Alan

We play one up front. his name is Ferando Torres. Crouch is good. But come on the fuuuuk!

Carson has been first choice for the team that came 6th in the league and is still very young. 10 million is a little ambitious, buts closer to ten than it is to four.

and wat actions in the media are you refering to? The story in the Echo a few hours before the Birmingham local papers reported it? get a grip.

IrishMike

invincibleirish wrote: »

Yep, im not trying to rise you on purpose, what you qouted were in the context of Liverpool posters in this thread seemingly unawares of Liverpools actions in the media over the Barry deal.

As for Crouch & Carson, there seems to be an element of the 2nd hand car salesman about the continuing praise of them and others. Carson is currently being linked with WBA and Crouch has warmed your bench for the season (and was useless when originally with Villa), not exactly world class now is he?

14 goals in 28 international appearances would obviously highlight the
ridiculous nature of your post
Maybe he was so poor at Villa because he was playing in a **** team which
was badly managed?
Crouch would be a huge addition to Villa as would Carson.
Both players are too good to be squad players at Liverpool but not good
enough to dislodge Reina or Torres.
Liverpool have excellent players in those positions already, Villa do not.
They also dont have the spending power to buy anyone of a higher calibre.
Randy Lerner for all his noise is not opening his wallet, as such
Villa would do well to buy some Liverpool squad players.

Bounty Hunter

seems to be more Randy Lerners wallet isnt being opened by MON instead of Randy keeping it tightly shut. anyway there is better than Carson out there such as Jussi for free, or with regards to young goalies id put more stock in Hart or Wayne Hennessy. Carsons stock has seriously fallen since he made his England appearances hense West Brom are now chasing his signature instead of his move to Villa being long done.

~Rebel~

IrishMike wrote: »

http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid=%7BB4CEE8FA%2D9A47%2D47BC%2DB069%2D3F7A2F35DB70%7D&newsid=6610831

Aaron Ramsey has just signed for United.
Believe Liverpool put in a bid for him.
Not too disappointed, £5m is risky for a 17yr old who is unproven at a high level.

The link you posted says Man U haven't signed him. Just that they've agreed a fee, along with another club (unnamed) but most likely us judging by the reports yesterday.

The 17-year-old left-sided midfielder has yet to agree personal terms and must also pass a medical before any deal can be completed.

But the Reds aren't the only club in for the teenager. Cardiff have confirmed that "three top Premier League teams" have made bids, with two given permission to speak to the Wales starlet.

On Carson, to be fair before last season he looked the business and looked worth the ten million, but it would be hard to expect any club to pay that now after the way his form collapsed for the second half of the seasn. Still think 6 or 7 is reasonable considering his age and potential though. Has about 15years of top level football left in him! Think he'd be an excellent signing for any of the lower teams or promoted teams as he's already proven he thrives on having plenty of work to do.

And on Crouch, im astonished at how some people are writing him off as a 'reject'. If we played a 442 id want him starting next to Torres. Unfortunately he obviously cant play the wide positions in a 433/451 and Torres is never gonna be displaced if fit. Crouch is an excellent footballer and im amazed anyone who follows his performances (club and country) could think otherwise.

Tusky

~Rebel~ wrote: »

The link you posted says Man U HAVEN'T signed him. Just that they've agreed a fee, along with another club (unnamed) but most likely us judging by the reports yesterday.

Rebel, you havent replied to my PM yet. Whats up ?

invincibleirish

Mr Alan wrote: »

We play one up front. his name is Ferando Torres. Crouch is good. But come on the fuuuuk!.

how about we call it quits and just swap Barry for Torres? no money or Nachos involved, it just creates arguments;)

Mr Alan wrote: »

Carson has been first choice for the team that came 6th in the league and is still very young. 10 million is a little ambitious, buts closer to ten than it is to four..

Lets be realistic Villa finished 6th in spite of rather then because of Carson, his susceptibility to free kicks cost Villa plenty of points this season.

Mr Alan wrote: »

and wat actions in the media are you refering to? The story in the Echo a few hours before the Birmingham local papers reported it? get a grip.

Theres more to it then that but im only repeating myself and others.

~Rebel~

Tusky wrote: »

Rebel, you havent replied to my PM yet. Whats up ?

oops didn't spot it, sorry! ill just phone home and see if someone can transfer the money for me now over the net.

Pepe LeFrits

The beeb reckon Arsenal are the other team to have had a bid accepted, although I imagine if Liverpool are interested then it won't be long before they match the bids also.

Savman

Barry's worth £12-15m in his current form
Crouch is worth upwards £10m - more if he was getting regular first team footy.
Carson probably £5-6m - his value, like his confidence, has plummeted thanks to McClown/Croatia debacle

Now let's move on shall we? Time will tell all and nothing we can do in the meantime except let off steam about something neither set of fans have any control of.

IrishMike

Savman wrote: »

Barry's worth £12-15m in his current form
Crouch is worth upwards £10m - more if he was getting regular first team footy.
Carson probably £5-6m - his value, like his confidence, has plummeted thanks to McClown/Croatia debacle

Now let's move on shall we? Time will tell all and nothing we can do in the meantime except let off steam about something neither set of fans have any control of.

Cant see the Villa fans letting you away with Barrys valuation
I agree with it though due to his age and lack of European experience.

missingtime

Savman wrote: »

Dude, shirley you can't be serious? I would rather eat my own foot than take anything in The Daily feckin Mirror as a factual basis for an educated discussion. :eek:
Come back with a real reference ffs.

I agree that the mirror isn't gospel but the points raised in the article are example enough the manu do not conduct themselves in a reputable manner.
Oh and dont call me shirley.

Bounty Hunter

IrishMike wrote: »

Cant see the Villa fans letting you away with Barrys valuation
I agree with it though due to his age and lack of European experience.

he's probably right not going to stop us putting an 18m price-tag on him though and then holding out for around 15m like Rafa's currently doing with \\crouch for example 15m price tag will sell for 10+m

Karmafaerie

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

cheers Al



I never once bitched about it but i did say that there was a difference between agreeing to buy him for 10m and having a first option on him for 10m which they have since decided to not take up because he isnt worth 10m. Pool can try to tell Villa that the only price they willl accept for him is the 10m that they had as a first option but then they wont get a penny for him. anyway like i said a few times i dont want Villa to sign Carson so ill not say anyore on the subject even if you respond quoting me again*.


*well really depends on your response but i dont intend to:D

Sorry man.
The bitching thing wasn't aimed at you.
You've never done anything but offer proper arguments (unlike some!:p).
A lot of Villa fans are going overboard though.
It's almost as if they're accusing Pool of holding out for what Villa said they were prepared to pay.
If Villa want to back out, fair enough.
That's up to them.

And as for the whole trolling thing, I doubt that anyone here would consider you a troll.
You make posts to get your point accross, not to p**s people off, or get a response.
Not as if it's up to me or anything, but I've no issues with you or other non Liverpool fans constructively posting here.

Esse85

IrishMike wrote: »

14 goals in 28 international appearances

Against rubbish teams mainly in friendly matches including goals against:

1x Uruguay
3x Jamaica
2x Greece
1x Austria
1x Hungary

Other goals he scored

1x Trinidad in WC
2x Andorra in 2008 qualifiers
1x Macedonia in 2008 qualifiers
1x Estonia in 2008 qualifiers
1x Croatia in 2008 qualifiers

Tusky

Esse85 wrote: »

Against rubbish teams mainly in friendly matches including goals against:

1x Uruguay
3x Jamaica
2x Greece
1x Austria
1x Hungary

Other goals he scored

1x Trinidad in WC
2x Andorra in 2008 qualifiers
1x Macedonia in 2008 qualifiers
1x Estonia in 2008 qualifiers
1x Croatia in 2008 qualifiers

Damn. Forgot that goals against poor teams dont count. He did score 4 or 5 goals against Arsenal over the last 3 years as well as being second top scorer (behind Kaka) last year in the Champions League. More than good enough to start for Villa.

Savman

Gas thing is if Liverpool wanted Barry 2 seasons ago they would have got him for £4m! Along comes O Neill and now that price has trebled, if not quadrupled. Madness.

If we're gonna be critical, for all of his strong points he was a very average player for a long time. He now has the benefit of all those years experience behind him, so he reads and controls the game well. It's no coincidence he was in international wilderness for so long, he never knew where his best position was and tried vainly to be a LB when he clearly didn't have the legs for it.

Most Villa fans wouldn't be pleased to see Crouch back, as good as he has become it just doesn't bode well at all going back to old, unsuccessful haunting grounds. I'd say Pompey would be a better move for him, he'd probably work well with Defoe and he'd get a lot of first team footy.

For the record, I'd like Carson @ VP but looks less likely to happen now.

zing

Not sure how reliable this is but it reckons we're still in the running for Ramsey
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/footballnation/football-news/2008/06/03/man-utd-bid-4-5m-for-aaron-ramsey-91466-21015098/

monkey9

Invincibleirish, i'd take the troll comment as a compliment to be honest because it's either that or you haven't an iota about football. Crouch, a Villa reject??? Or maybe you's just had a sh!te manager and a sh!te team at the time.
Whats with the repeatedly used phrase of Liverpool 'acting in a distasteful manner'?. Why, for putting a bid in for a player they know wants to leave Villa? You're right, Barry probably has had his head turned. Had his head turned by eleven years of mediocrity. Had his head turned by watching Champions League football on tv, watching the likes of Liverpool and Utd winning it, Chelsea and Arsenal reaching the final. Maybe a couple of Uefa Cup games over that period isn't enough for him.
And as for the bids that Liverpool have put in that you have read about in the papers. Well, look up the word 'negotiate' in the dictionary and move on.

Melion

Savman wrote: »

Most Villa fans wouldn't be pleased to see Crouch back, as good as he has become it just doesn't bode well at all going back to old, unsuccessful haunting grounds. I'd say Pompey would be a better move for him, he'd probably work well with Defoe and he'd get a lot of first team footy.

Why would portsmouth be a better move for him? He played there before too you know.

IrishMike

Oh for crying out loud he still scored 14 goals in 28 international appearances.
It doesnt matter a jot who he scored against.

Michael Owen has scored 40 goals for England but
2x Romania
2x Luxembourg
2x Albania
2x Liechstein
1x N Ireland
1x Estonia

Should we therefore say he has only scored 30 goals ?

monkey9

If Crouch plays, he scores! Simple as that. He's quality. The system we play doesn't suit him and that's just the way it is. It's unfortunate, i don't want him to leave, but i accept he's too good to be sitting on the bench for the majority of the season

Esse85

IrishMike wrote: »

Oh for crying out loud he still scored 14 goals in 28 international appearances.
It doesnt matter a jot who he scored against.

Michael Owen has scored 40 goals for England but
2x Romania
2x Luxembourg
2x Albania
2x Liechstein
1x N Ireland
1x Estonia

Should we therefore say he has only scored 30 goals ?

Massive difference between 14 and 40.

Owen is world class, Crouch isnt.

~Rebel~

zing wrote: »

Not sure how reliable this is but it reckons we're still in the running for Ramsey
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/footballnation/football-news/2008/06/03/man-utd-bid-4-5m-for-aaron-ramsey-91466-21015098/

Im hoping we are. Not even so much for the player (who i know next to nothing about) but just the fact that we'd be going in with a decent offer for a youth would be a good sign for our transfer budget.

Karmafaerie

Esse85 wrote: »

Against rubbish teams mainly in friendly matches including goals against:

1x Uruguay
3x Jamaica
2x Greece
1x Austria
1x Hungary

Other goals he scored

1x Trinidad in WC
2x Andorra in 2008 qualifiers
1x Macedonia in 2008 qualifiers
1x Estonia in 2008 qualifiers
1x Croatia in 2008 qualifiers

So any of Ronaldo, or Torres' goals against lesser opposition shouldn't count!!!

And maybe when Reading or Derby players score against bigger clubs the goals should count as two!!!

Come on man!!!:rolleyes:

IrishMike

Esse85 wrote: »

Massive difference between 14 and 40.

Owen is world class, Crouch isnt.

Crouch has scored 14 in 28 = 1 goal in 2 games
Owen has scored 40 in 89 = 1 goal in 2.25 games

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Esse85

Melion wrote: »

Why would portsmouth be a better move for him? He played there before too you know.

Because he had a successful spell at Pompey before, Harry Redknappy said he'd like to sign him, Defoe said he'd like to play along side him and because he'd be first choice there.

Is that enough reasons for you:p

gucci

IrishMike wrote: »

Oh for crying out loud he still scored 14 goals in 28 international appearances.
It doesnt matter a jot who he scored against.

Michael Owen has scored 40 goals for England but
2x Romania
2x Luxembourg
2x Albania
2x Liechstein
1x N Ireland
1x Estonia

Should we therefore say he has only scored 30 goals ?

And what about Robbie Keane? And all those goals in international friendlys Ronaldo would have scored for Brasil? ( Not saying Crouch is ronaldo or anything!) But stats can be made to prove anything!

For what its worth, Crouch was by far Englands best player the night they lost to Croatia.

IrishMike

gucci wrote: »

And what about Robbie Keane? And all those goals in international friendlys Ronaldo would have scored for Brasil? ( Not saying Crouch is ronaldo or anything!) But stats can be made to prove anything!

For what its worth, Crouch was by far Englands best player the night they lost to Croatia.

Any more sensible and well thought out comments like that Gucci and ill report it.
It has no place on this thread going by todays standard of posting.

Chardee MacDennis

Esse85 wrote: »

Owen is world class, Crouch isnt.

is anyone actually saying Crouch is world class? i dont think so. but since there are no world class players in the villa team i dont see what the problem is.

Esse85

IrishMike wrote: »

Crouch has scored 14 in 28 = 1 goal in 2 games
Owen has scored 40 in 89 = 1 goal in 2.25 games

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Crouch will never play 89 games for england:rolleyes:

monkey9

Esse85 wrote: »

Because he had a successful spell at Pompey before, Harry Redknappy said he'd like to sign him, Defoe said he'd like to play along side him and because he'd be first choice there.

Is that enough reasons for you:p

I think he was just asking you a simple question.

monkey9

Esse85 wrote: »

Crouch will never play 89 games for england:rolleyes:

Thanks for the confirmation.

IrishMike

Call_me_al wrote: »

is anyone actually saying Crouch is world class? i dont think so. but since there are no world class players in the villa team i dont see what the problem is.

Ashley Young is not far off of it though.
For me he is the best winger in the league except for that rodent features
and his 40 goals.

~Rebel~

Esse85 wrote: »

Crouch will never play 89 games for england:rolleyes:

...Fabio? What are you doing here?!