Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2008/2009

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malice_ wrote: »

I'd bring him instead of van Persie (assuming he's fit of course).

You'd bring Kuyt ahead of a fit vp?

Get a bleedin' grip will you.

Malice

DesF wrote: »

You'd bring Kuyt ahead of a fit vp?

Get a bleedin' grip will you.

Get a grip yourself, this is the Liverpool thread, am I not allowed to have a favourable opinion of a Liverpool player?

Whatever about Kuyt's league scoring record, seven goals in the Champions League is a pretty damn good return isn't it? Not to mention his ability to track back and essentially run all day.

Bounty Hunter

cant see Kuyt being axed especially as he scored for them last night (as did Babel) and can fill more than one role.

The Recliner

malice_ wrote: »

Get a grip yourself, this is the Liverpool thread, am I not allowed to have a favourable opinion of a Liverpool player?

Whatever about Kuyt's league scoring record, seven goals in the Champions League is a pretty damn good return isn't it? Not to mention his ability to track back and essentially run all day.

But lets be fair, I support liverpool but I would take a fit van Pierse anyday

Just a shame he is never fit

Tusky

malice_ wrote: »

Get a grip yourself, this is the Liverpool thread, am I not allowed to have a favourable opinion of a Liverpool player?

Whatever about Kuyt's league scoring record, seven goals in the Champions League is a pretty damn good return isn't it? Not to mention his ability to track back and essentially run all day.

Fit Van Persie > Kuyt. End of discussion!

whatawaster

Nemeth's second goal the other night was superb, at any level. Showed great skills and close control to beat his man, great off the ball movement and intelligence and wonderful finish. He is well capable of being our third or fourth striker this season.

rosboy

Dosenna deal may not be straight forward.

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=710566

Stky10

rosboy wrote: »

Dosenna deal may not be straight forward.

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=710566

No huge surprise if it doesn't work out. The deal has supposedly been sorted for a couple of days, and all he's done is delay. We should just accept it and move on to somebody who wants to move and won't get homesick after a month or so and want to move home again.

joe123

Just wondering how come nobody is mentioning the David Bentley rumour? Was on skysports yesterday and is on goal.com today.

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=710849

He would be one of my top choice buys this year for liverpool. Hes tricky has an eye for a pass and goal and his free kicks alone.... He can play on the right and if gerrards not playing he could fill in that role behind torres.

If we get him would be a top purchase I reckon. There saying 12 million but I reckon wel have to offer something like 15 million plus pennant probably.

IrishMike

joe123 wrote: »

Just wondering how come nobody is mentioning the David Bentley rumour? Was on skysports yesterday and is on goal.com today.

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=710849

He would be one of my top choice buys this year for liverpool. Hes tricky has an eye for a pass and goal and his free kicks alone.... He can play on the right and if gerrards not playing he could fill in that role behind torres.

If we get him would be a top purchase I reckon. There saying 12 million but I reckon wel have to offer something like 15 million plus pennant probably.

15m + pennant or 16m + pennant and voronin !
Really really prefer to see liverpool sell pennant for 5m and offer 20m for silva instead.

IrishMike

Worst paper in the world ever is at it again.

Chelsea will continue to pursue the players sacked boss Avram Grant wanted to sign this summer - and will pay up to £50m for Liverpool striker Fernando Torres. (Daily Mail)

RE*AC*TOR

Slow news day

IrishMike

Yesterdays gossip

Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez is ready to rubberstamp Peter Crouch's move to Portsmouth.
The People says Crouch has already agreed personal terms worth £4 million-a-year and will move to Fratton Park for a fee rising to £12 million.

Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez is ready to try again for Wigan Athletic winger Luis Antonio Valencia.
The People says Benitez will move for the Ecuador dazzler if he cannot convince Blackburn to drop their asking price for David Bentley.

Malice

The Recliner wrote: »

But lets be fair, I support liverpool but I would take a fit van Pierse anyday

Just a shame he is never fit

Tusky wrote: »

Fit Van Persie > Kuyt. End of discussion!

I though poor Dirk would have a bit more support. Oh well, I suppose it's a good thing I'm not picking the squad .

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malice_ wrote: »

I though poor Dirk would have a bit more support. Oh well, I suppose it's a good thing I'm not picking the squad .

There is support, there is red-tinted specs, and there is delusional.

Dirk Kuyt is not as good as RvP, and he never will be.

To say that you'd have DK in a squad, any squad, ahead of RvP is delusional as to his actual ability.

Boggles

malice_ wrote: »

Whatever about Kuyt's league scoring record, seven goals in the Champions League is a pretty damn good return isn't it? Not to mention his ability to track back and essentially run all day.

7 goals, you sure, that would make him second top scorer?

mormank

it was 5 goals...7 goals, pffffft

IrishMike

8 Cristiano Ronaldo Man. United
6 Steven Gerrard Liverpool
6 Fernando Torres Liverpool
6 Lionel Messi Barcelona
6 Didier Drogba Chelsea
5 Dirk Kuyt Liverpool
5 Ryan Babel Liverpool
5 Raúl González Real Madrid


Still an impressive haul for a winger.
Kuyt deserves his place in the Dutch squad but not at the expense of RVN or RVP
Man id love 3 letter initials

zing

joe123 wrote: »

Just wondering how come nobody is mentioning the David Bentley rumour? Was on skysports yesterday and is on goal.com today.

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=710849

He would be one of my top choice buys this year for liverpool. Hes tricky has an eye for a pass and goal and his free kicks alone.... He can play on the right and if gerrards not playing he could fill in that role behind torres.

If we get him would be a top purchase I reckon. There saying 12 million but I reckon wel have to offer something like 15 million plus pennant probably.

From the Liverpool Echo on May 19.

Reports that Blackburn’s David Bentley also features on Benitez’s wanted list are wide of the mark.

Given the journalist involved that's generally a good enough indication that he's not a target.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/05/19/javier-mascherano-to-help-restore-liverpool-s-trophy-pride-100252-20931180/

IrishMike

Hopefully that is true.
Can see Bentley becomming the next Aaron Lennon or Pederson, 1 brilliant season then
becomming an above average player for the rest of his career.
No to Bentley, yes to Young, Silva, Villa or Joaquin!

zing

mormank wrote: »

it was 5 goals...7 goals, pffffft

7 if you include the 2 against Toulouse in the qualifier - but the qualifiers don't count for the official stats so it's officially 5

joe123

IrishMike wrote: »

Hopefully that is true.
Can see Bentley becomming the next Aaron Lennon or Pederson, 1 brilliant season then
becomming an above average player for the rest of his career.
No to Bentley, yes to Young, Silva, Villa or Joaquin!

I havent seen joaquin play much recently but it seems to me he is an overrated lazy pile of over ratedness...unless someone is about to tell me he was amazing towards the end of last season.

David Villa would cost twice as much as David Bentley and really just an unrealistic target. Silva looks good but I still think Bentley is proven and used to the premiership who knows what could happen silva. Weve had a Morientes and weve had a torres....

IrishMike

Bentley is not proven imho, he had one good season.
He was not spectacular at all and is overhyped because he is looking like he will take
beckhams place for England but thats not saying much due to the lack of English wingers.
We have already bought Pennant who Wenger thought wasnt good enough, why would
we go and do the same with Bentley?

Weve had a Morientes who cost £5m if memory serves me correct, Torres cost £20m
Pennant cost £5m and Silva will cost £15m +
You get what you pay for but i for one definitely think Silva is a completely superiour
player to Bentley and has the potential to get even better.

jesus_thats_gre

More stories today of Chelsea trying to sign Torres for £50m

zing

A few weeks ago they were supposedly offering 1b - now it's 50m. You can spot Rick's involvement a mile away :rolleyes:

mormank

zing wrote: »

7 if you include the 2 against Toulouse in the qualifier - but the qualifiers don't count for the official stats so it's officially 5

ok so in the 2006 season gerrard scored about 25 goals in the champions league. didnt he get a couple of hattricks in the qualifiers against tns and the like.

5. kuyt got 5!

mormank

IrishMike wrote: »

Bentley is not proven imho, he had one good season.
He was not spectacular at all and is overhyped because he is looking like he will take
beckhams place for England but thats not saying much due to the lack of English wingers.
We have already bought Pennant who Wenger thought wasnt good enough, why would
we go and do the same with Bentley?

Weve had a Morientes who cost £5m if memory serves me correct, Torres cost £20m
Pennant cost £5m and Silva will cost £15m +
You get what you pay for but i for one definitely think Silva is a completely superiour
player to Bentley and has the potential to get even better.

if its true that you get what you pay for then it doesnt matter who we sign between bentley and silva cos they will cost roughly the same..also ronaldo cost utd 12million and veron cost utd 30million. you're right, you get what you pay for. good point!!!

why do ppl harp on about spending big. you need to target the most correct players and then not baulk at the fee. he may be expensive and he may be cheap. arsene wenger won many titles and his net spend was lower than that of fulham over the same time period!

zAbbo

You get what you're willing to pay!

tonc76

www.breakingnews.ie

Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez has played down his side’s chances of winning the Premier League next season, describing the title as “an option”.

The Reds finished fourth in the season just ended, 11 points behind champions Manchester United.

Their last league title came back in 1990 but Benitez did not sound overly confident of ending that depressing streak in 2008/2009.

“It is an option, for sure,” he told the club’s website, www.liverpoolfc.tv. “We know our weaknesses and our strengths. We know where we need to improve, so we’ll try to build a new team looking at these things.

“It’s more difficult than in Spain because the top sides spend big, big money. We will try to do our best and the key for me is to not talk about the title.

“The key is to be near the top, to be contenders. If we stay close then I think we are capable of doing it.

“It’s more difficult because after two years of Chelsea winning the league and spending big money, United needed to do the same.

“They started spending big money and Arsenal were also spending big money on young players. We are trying to do the same but because they (Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal) are continuing to spend big money, it makes it more difficult to catch up.

“You also see Aston Villa, Newcastle, West Ham and Everton spending money and having strong teams. It’s not easy to be in the top four and be contenders but because we have a young squad we can try again.”

dardoz

I'm glad he's being a realist. Its better than saying every year: "This is our year" and looking like a tool year after year.

He's dead right in everything he has said. It is getting more and more difficult to compete for the championship with the amount of money Chelsea and ManU are spending.

I didn't know Everton were spending much money tho..

IrishMike

mormank wrote: »

if its true that you get what you pay for then it doesnt matter who we sign between bentley and silva cos they will cost roughly the same..also ronaldo cost utd 12million and veron cost utd 30million. you're right, you get what you pay for. good point!!!

My point is they will cost roughly the same but that silva is a vastly superior player and that Bentleys price is inflated because he is English.

ppl harp on about spending big. you need to target the most correct players and then not baulk at the fee. he may be expensive and he may be cheap. arsene wenger won many titles and his net spend was lower than that of fulham over the same time period!

What exactly are you trying to say?
United won the league, spent 30m and then won it again.
Wenger spent nothing for the past 4 years and won nothing.
The days of young players being nurtured and building a team solely around
them are gone when Chelsea can just buy the best and brighest players.
There are very very few hidden gems in Europe at cheap prices so you
now need to spend to be successful.
Above average players can be got for average money but there are very few
if any world class players that can be gotten for small money.

spockety

Optimistic? No.

Realistic? Probably.

mike65

"an option" wtf? Its a possibility, no?

Mike.

zAbbo

I think Rafa is good at picking potential top quality players for low prices, Look at Agger and Skretel, both picked up for a combined price of £12.3m

I hope all our signings are made before Euro08, but that is probably unrealistic given the bargaining power of players in those tournaments.

I'd be happy with Silva, and another attacking option, plus Dosenna.

zing

mormank wrote: »

ok so in the 2006 season gerrard scored about 25 goals in the champions league. didnt he get a couple of hattricks in the qualifiers against tns and the like.

5. kuyt got 5!

No - he scored 7 goals in the CL this season - 7. No one has tried to claim he outscored anyone else or that he should have gotten a bloody award or anything but to say he didn't score those 2 goals against Toulouse when UEFA themselves say he did is just ridiculous.

And no one is disputing that from the group stages onwards - when the stats officially start - that he scored 5. However malice_ made the original statement with

seven goals in the Champions League

and that statement is true no matter what way you look at it. 2 of them may have been before the group stages but he still scored them.

And yeah - back in 05-06 Gerrard had something like 7 goals to his name before the group stages bu they didn't count in the stats at the end of the tournament. But he still scored them.

Pyjamarama

Have to say i'm not optimistic about the summer... i'm hoping all the paper talk is just junk but apart from Dosenna (who i've seen a fair bit of and he is quality) none of the players we've been linked with really excite me. I don't believe we're a million miles behind but we're gonna need a boat load of luck to be anywhere near the top next year.

It really does look like we have fup all money...

missingtime

Pyjamarama wrote: »

It really does look like we have fup all money...

thats not so bad...teams will stop charging us stupid money for players we want.
i'm just afraid that if we bring in too many players the team will never get a chance to gel.
all this talk about silva sounds good...i dont know if we have been linked with him though (any links?) - i can see his price going up though after the euros if he plays well.
maybe torres will have a word with him

mormank

ya i understand the english connection will inflate prices. ferdinand and rooney are two great examples of this. however i think they have justified their prices. my point was that to say you get what you pay for is a clear contradiction as they both cost the same but u want one over the other!!

as for the days of young players being brought up etc...look at barca the year they won the champions league and were widely regarded as the best attacking team for the past 5 years. messi cost them nothing, now mooted the best player in the world or second, victor valdes =nothing. puyol=nothing. oleguer=nothing. xavi=nothing. iniesta=nothing. motta=nothing. van bommel=nothing. larsson=nothing. two players were signed for over ten million, ronaldinho and eto'o. every other player cost ten million or less...

also your argument about arsenal not winning anything recently isnt valid cos my point was merely that they have been very successful during wenger's time there without spending big. the fact that they have not won the league over the past couple of years cannot be put down to not spendin as they have already shown that they can win the league without big spendin, just they cannot dominate it for ten years

mormank

zing wrote: »

No - he scored 7 goals in the CL this season - 7. No one has tried to claim he outscored anyone else or that he should have gotten a bloody award or anything but to say he didn't score those 2 goals against Toulouse when UEFA themselves say he did is just ridiculous.

And no one is disputing that from the group stages onwards - when the stats officially start - that he scored 5. However malice_ made the original statement with
and that statement is true no matter what way you look at it. 2 of them may have been before the group stages but he still scored them.

And yeah - back in 05-06 Gerrard had something like 7 goals to his name before the group stages bu they didn't count in the stats at the end of the tournament. But he still scored them.

this is just you being pedantic. we all know that when we talk about goals scored in the champions league we all mean the champions league proper...sigh..:(

jesus_thats_gre

mormank wrote: »

this is just you being pedantic. we all know that when we talk about goals scored in the champions league we all mean the champions league proper...sigh..:(

He is being pedantic? Surely you are taking the piss?

mormank

no. everybody who talks about it talks about goals scored in the champions league proper. whether it be one season's top scorer or all time top scorer. im sure the all time champions league score list would be different if we started including games against TNS and Cork city...

jesus_thats_gre

Saying that he scored 7 in the competition is a fair statement. To say so it not pedantic. It is recognising his goals that contributed to our advancement into the CL proper.

To argue that they shouldn't be discussed, nevermind recognised, and then accuse someone else of being pedantic is rediculous.

Remember, no one is stating that he should be recognised as having scored 7 in the top scorer charts.

zAbbo

You're completely talking through your hoop mormank, and trying to win an argument which doesn't exist.

Seeing as this is a Liverpool thread, and we're talking about CL goals scored in games which Liverpool played, it's absolutely fair to count the qualifying rounds.

Someone said Kuyt had "seven goals in the Champions League" which is correct, no-one said Kuyt outscored someone who didn't play any qualifying games.

Those two goals obviously count, otherwise we may not have made it through the early rounds.

I can't believe I'm having to point this out (someone already has as well), but you'd taking anal pedanticness to a whole new level (and in this thread, that's something)

Next we'll be ruling out some of the 5 goals because they were at home/against crap opposition/offside/inside the box etc.

zAbbo

zAbbo wrote: »

You're completely talking through your hoop mormank, and trying to win an argument which doesn't exist.

Seeing as this is a Liverpool thread, and we're talking about CL goals scored in games which Liverpool played, it's absolutely fair to count the qualifying rounds.

Someone said Kuyt had "seven goals in the Champions League" which is correct, no-one said Kuyt outscored someone who didn't play any qualifying games.

Those two goals obviously count, otherwise we may not have made it through the early rounds.

I can't believe I'm having to point this out (someone already has as well), but you'd taking anal pedanticness to a whole new level (and in this thread, that's something)

Next we'll be ruling out some of the 5 goals because they were at home/against crap opposition/offside/inside the box etc.

Same way as some people try to discount Ronaldo's penalties/freekicks.


He scored the goals in the tournament entitled "Champions League".......qualifying rounds are, i believe, part of the tournament....so those goals have to count....its very simple. Sure he may have played 2 extra games to other players but that what "goals per game" ratios are for.

tok9

why does it even matter.... it's not going to make him a better or worse player if they are or are not counted by us!! What really matters is as one person said to me.. kuyt has done a job for us this year and now we really need to improve on him. also some people are hoping that kuyt does not get axed from the dutch squad. i don't see the problem if he is. he'll be much fresher and better equiped then other players if he is dropped. obviously morale is an issue though. now that should be all that is needed to say on kuyt... i hope.:)

jesus_thats_gre

tok9 wrote: »

why does it even matter.... it's not going to make him a better or worse player if they are or are not counted by us!! What really matters is as one person said to me.. kuyt has done a job for us this year and now we really need to improve on him. also some people are hoping that kuyt does not get axed from the dutch squad. i don't see the problem if he is. he'll be much fresher and better equiped then other players if he is dropped. obviously morale is an issue though. now that should be all that is needed to say on kuyt... i hope.:)

Thats the thing, it doesn't matter in the slighest.

As always on this thread though, a FAN makes a reasonable point about a player for the club without making any bold claims yet someone, who tends to be relatively new to the thread and the supporter of another club, always disects what is said to death, makes some outlandish statement and the thread decends into pointless bickering for 5 or 6 pages.

This leads to accusations of throlling and so on as it is nearly impossible not to become petty or defensive in a situation like this. This naturally leads to calls for only fans to be able to post on these threads.

I genuinely believe that there isn't a single Liverpool fan that contributes to this thread that want supporters of other clubs retricted from posting on this thread. All we want is to able to talk about our club without some pedantic knobend turning it into a free for all.

MementoMori

Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez is ready to rubberstamp Peter Crouch's move to Portsmouth.
The People says Crouch has already agreed personal terms worth £4 million-a-year and will move to Fratton Park for a fee rising to £12 million.

Given the previous ludicrous nonsense low valuations of Crouch i have to say this rising to £12m pleases me greatly. A hell of a lot more like whats he actually worth. As long as they don't inisist on sending Kranckjar in Anfield's way I'd have to say I'd be ok with this especially if the money was put towards getting a striker/right-winger type of player.

Rgarding the lack of a width thing given the stories mentioning Bentley and the fact that Pennant was offered to Villa in the Barry deal, it's finally apparent that Rafa is definately in the market for a winger. Which is a massive relief.

The Dossena thing - apparently looks like wait and see - given the Italian tendency to stay at home could easily see this falling through. Anyone any ideas of any possible replacements in the same price range, if this happens?

Also on Sat's BBC gossip it mentioned that Arbeloa (along with Carson, Riise, Crouch) was one of the players Benitez was willing to listen to offers for. Very Strange methough. Also said that funds at Liverpool for the summer were £20m plus what could be raised by sales. Boo

jesus_thats_gre

One of the reports seemed to suggest that Rafa was trying to raise 50 million in player sales to bolster the 20 million that he already has for transfers in the summer.

mike65

100 posts!

Getting 12 million for Crouch would be a brillaint piece of buisness. He's only a year on his contract after all.

Mike.

raido9

Deleted User wrote: »

He scored the goals in the tournament entitled "Champions League".......qualifying rounds are, i believe, part of the tournament....so those goals have to count....its very simple. Sure he may have played 2 extra games to other players but that what "goals per game" ratios are for.

So David Healy would be a good bet for the golden boot at Euro 2008 so?