Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2008/2009

Karmafaerie

Anybody who comes into the thread now, is really gonna think that we're being linked to Pirlo!!!:D

Tusky

IrishMike wrote: »

The guy is one of the best players in the world right now.
Milan are not in the CL, how do you know he would not move?
And to say what if he didnt adapt is pretty pointless argument that could
be thrown at every single transfer target.
He is 29 not 34, he has 4 or 5 years at the very top left.

We will just have to agree to disagree. We will never know for sure if he would adapt as its not going to happen!

Theres a difference in regardsing to the adapting argument. Hes 29 and has never played outside of Italy so its a bigger gamble.

Chardee MacDennis

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Anybody who comes into the thread now, is really gonna think that we're being linked to Pirlo!!!:D

well in fairness we have been going on about Villa like there is a good link to him as well. just shows the lack of speculation that we've been forced to make up our own.

zAbbo

Pirlo is a great player, but the Milan and Italian midfield have been built around him over the last 5 years. I don't think we can accommodate him, and dare I say it - he wouldn't have the pace to perform as well in the Premiership as he does in Italy.

Similar to Riquleme, and what we tried to do with Alonso, focus everything through them in order to control the tempo of the game.

I think the formation with Torres up front, puts more emphasis on ball playing centre halves like Agger and Skretel, this change in direction from hoofed balls by the back 4 makes us a better team to watch, and will in time makes us a more successful team.

It was unfortunate that Agger was out most of the season, and Skretel only came in at Christmas, so Rafa couldn't put that plan into practise as much as he wanted to.

So while we'd all love players like Pirlo, the fact is that we'd have to shoe horn him into the team, and if he wasn't available we don't have an alternative who can fill the role he'd occupy.

On one hand, we need players who can distribute the ball, we also need players who can show for the ball and offer an outlet, this I think is the reason we're looking at Barry.

I'm a big fan of his, I think it's a shame he hasn't got at least 50 international caps at this stage, he has all the attributes and proven record to be a success at Liverpool.

IMO - I don't think Pirlo would ever join us, if he wants CL football and success - Milan are a much better prospect.

But if ever there was a time to leave Italy and Milan, I think it would be now

Malice

zAbbo wrote: »

IMO - I don't think Pirlo would ever join us, if he wants CL football and success - Milan are a much better prospect.

But if ever there was a time to leave Italy and Milan, I think it would be now

Not that it has anything to do with Liverpool but AC Milan aren't in the Champions League next season so if he wants Champions League football he might move on. I doubt he will though and I would say that his lack of pace would leave him very exposed in England. Dare I say it, a lot like Morientes .

jesus_thats_gre

Lads, there was a website posted earlier on this thread that logged the position that a player played in every match throughout the season. I have looked but can't find it. Do any of ye know it off the top of your head?

Melion

Pirlo is one of my favourite players in the world but i just dont think he'd work in England, it would be a very similar situation to Veron when he went to the PL. IMO no player in the world has vision like Pirlo and the ability to spot a pass but he just wouldn't get the time on the ball in the PL that he gets in Italy.

zAbbo

malice_ wrote: »

Not that it has anything to do with Liverpool but AC Milan aren't in the Champions League next season so if he wants Champions League football he might move on. I doubt he will though and I would say that his lack of pace would leave him very exposed in England. Dare I say it, a lot like Morientes .

For next season - yes, after that Milan have a much better chance of getting into Europe than we have.

Tusky

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Lads, there was a website posted earlier on this thread that logged the position that a player played in every match throughout the season. I have looked but can't find it. Do any of ye know it off the top of your head?

http://www.football-lineups.com/

Worth noting. I was reading a 'stats' section of a newspaper the other day after the Holland v Italy game & France v Romania games. The fastest players from the two were Ribery and surprisingly, Kuyt!

Kuyts top speed was also faster than Riberys.

tonc76

Tusky wrote: »

http://www.football-lineups.com/

Worth noting. I was reading a 'stats' section of a newspaper the other day after the Holland v Italy game & France v Romania games. The fastest players from the two were Ribery and surprisingly, Kuyt!

Kuyts top speed was also faster than Riberys.

Saw that too think Kuyt's top speed in Mondays game was 28.5km/h roughly 0.5km/h faster than Ribery:D

zing

Tusky wrote: »

Kuyts top speed was also faster than Riberys.

hehe - who was he running away from ?

raven136

villa,pirlo,silva...do people here know something that i dont.I thought that we were flat broke and have to sell some average squad players to raise money for more above average players.No more Torres type signings i think.
Maybe Rafa has won the euromillios or sumthing;)

Mr Alan

I actually wouldnt be suprised if Kuyt had an excellent season next year.

He has been getting better and better in that wide role.

jesus_thats_gre

Cheers lads!

Tusky

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Cheers lads!

You misspelled my username. :pac:

gucci

Whats the odds on The Dirk Destroyer being player of the tournament??

Tusky

gucci wrote: »

Whats the odds on The Dirk Destroyer being player of the tournament??

157,000/1

Ive put 5 cent on it.

Boggles

Tusky wrote: »

157,000/1

Ive put 5 cent on it.

Worth 5 cent, that would be a return of 8 grand

raven136

lads does anyone have a link to a fans sites that has the lyrics to all our fans songs.Cheers

gucci

Tusky wrote: »

157,000/1

Ive put 5 cent on it.

I better put 5cent on it too, those odds are gonna be slashed after he ROASTS Gallas, Sagnol and co in the next game.

Stky10

Mr Alan wrote: »

I actually wouldnt be suprised if Kuyt had an excellent season next year.

People said the same thing last summer....

Malice

raven136 wrote: »

lads does anyone have a link to a fans sites that has the lyrics to all our fans songs.Cheers

Try here on Red and White Kop.

Daemonic

Mr Alan wrote: »

I actually wouldnt be suprised if Kuyt had an excellent season next year.

He has been getting better and better in that wide role.

Wouldn't surprise me either. He seems happy playing there so maybe Rafa has let him know thats his Liverpool position, like it or lump it and he's just adjusting to it properly now. With Euro 2008 and pre-season in that position he could surprise us all. [/deluded???]

IrishMike

Stky10 wrote: »

People said the same thing last summer....

Yes and they were right.....

Tusky

IrishMike wrote: »

Yes and they were right.....

No they werent. Kuyt was absolutely dire for 75% of the year. He played very well towards the end though. Lets not forget that Kuyt played as a striker for most of the year and only got 3 goals in the league, two of which were penalties.

colly10

IrishMike wrote: »

Yes and they were right.....

He was average at best, he will hopefully improve in that position next year, I just wouldn't bank on it, he's not really a winger

Edit: Being honest I thought he was muck, I said a few times last season that if that guy can get paid what he does, maybe I should get off the smokes, spend all day on the treadmill till eventually I can run around aimlessly for 90 mins

IrishMike

Juventus are baulking at Liverpool's asking price for midfielder Xabi Alonso.

Tuttosport says Liverpool's £16 million valuation is deemed too steep by Juve directors, who are now considering alternatives.

Just flipping perfect
And Kuyt had an excellent 2nd half of the season.
He scored 5 in Europe and took a while to adapt to his new position and to get over
the death of his father, but when he did he was top class.
11 assists from a converted winger is nothing to be sniffed at!
All things considered if he has another season next year like he did this year i dont think
anyone will have any problem with him.

Malice

colly10 wrote: »

He was average at best, he will hopefully improve in that position next year, I just wouldn't bank on it, he's not really a winger

Edit: Being honest I thought he was muck, I said a few times last season that if that guy can get paid what he does, maybe I should get off the smokes, spend all day on the treadmill till eventually I can run around aimlessly for 90 mins

I agree with you that he's not really a winger but if he's going to continue improving as a wide midfielder then he deserves to make the position his own. It's not as if he's going to be under that much pressure from Pennant .

One thing I wish people would realise is that Kuyt doesn't run around aimlessly. Watch a puppy tearing around a garden trying to sniff ten things at once. That's running around aimlessly! Kuyt closes down the opposition and defends from the front. By giving opposition defenders no time on the ball more often than not they are reduced to an aimless hoof upfield which generally concedes possession.

Mr Alan

Torres talked about the effectiveness of Kuyts runs the other day, saying how much space he opens up for him when needs be.

If its good enough for fernando, its good enough for me.

Tusky

IrishMike wrote: »

All things considered if he has another season next year like he did this year i dont think
anyone will have any problem with him.

Well considering most people are hoping Rafa buys a replacement for him this summer, you are incorrect.

He was good for the last 3 months or so but terrible for most of the season. If he could play like he did at the end of the year, for the entire year, Id be happy with him.

colly10

malice_ wrote: »

It's not as if he's going to be under that much pressure from Pennant .

True, but if we had money and real title ambition its a position that we would be looking to improve on, he is one of our few first choice players that aren't really up to first choice standard if you want to win the prem

Edit: Actually we better get at least Bently for that position

IrishMike

Just wondering what more people would be looking for out of Kuyt ?
He played half the season as a winger and came joint 3rd in assists from open play in the premiership
He was 2 behind Rooney and Ashley Young and 2 ahead of Bentley.
You judge a winger on his assist levels and his overall contribution to the team.
If you look at kuyt in those terms he has had an excellent season.
Lets try playing Babel as a striker and see how long it takes him to adapt.
If he played their for the season, scored 12 or 14 goals but was rubbish for the first 3
months people would still be very happy with that return.
Why is the same logic not applied to Kuyt?

zAbbo

Tusky wrote: »

No they werent. Kuyt was absolutely dire for 75% of the year. He played very well towards the end though. Lets not forget that Kuyt played as a striker for most of the year and only got 3 goals in the league, two of which were penalties.

Kuyt himself admitted her performed poorly, I think he had a bereavement in the family as well (his father?)

His wide right position isn't a new one, and it is often used in Dutch football, he filled that role with Holland during the WC06 as well.

Tusky

IrishMike wrote: »

Just wondering what more people would be looking for out of Kuyt ?
He played half the season as a winger and came joint 3rd in assists from open play in the premiership
He was 2 behind Rooney and Ashley Young and 2 ahead of Bentley.
You judge a winger on his assist levels and his overall contribution to the team.
If you look at kuyt in those terms he has had an excellent season.
Lets try playing Babel as a striker and see how long it takes him to adapt.
If he played their for the season, scored 12 or 14 goals but was rubbish for the first 3
months people would still be very happy with that return.
Why is the same logic not applied to Kuyt?

Heres the stats for Kuyt. Striker = one of the 2 in a 4-4-2 or the wide striker in a 4-2-3-1. Im counting the wide right position as a winger.

In the league

Striker:
started: 15
sub: 3

TOTAL : 18

Winger:
started: 8
sub: 3

TOTAL : 11

I was going to do champions league as well but the site has gone kaput. My point stands. He was played as a striker for most of the year and he was awful. When he was switched to the wide position he slowly improved specially at the very end of the season.

colly10

IrishMike wrote: »

Just wondering what more people would be looking for out of Kuyt ?
He played half the season as a winger and came joint 3rd in assists from open play in the premiership
He was 2 behind Rooney and Ashley Young and 2 ahead of Bentley.
You judge a winger on his assist levels and his overall contribution to the team.
If you look at kuyt in those terms he has had an excellent season.
Lets try playing Babel as a striker and see how long it takes him to adapt.
If he played their for the season, scored 12 or 14 goals but was rubbish for the first 3
months people would still be very happy with that return.
Why is the same logic not applied to Kuyt?

I thought Babel was bought as a striker anyway? You can't really judge a player based on statistics, take Cisse for example, scored 18 goals in his last season with us iirc, he didn't play every game. Based on statistics you could argue that Cisse was great in his last season, yet most would agree he was septic

Mr Alan

---

Mascherano--Barry

---

-Kuyt/Babel-Gerrard-Babel/New Player

---

Torres

---

Folks, i think people are gonna have to accept that next season will be lining up like this, the only real question is if the "new player" will be a Villa/Silva/Quaresma type player or a Riera/Downing/Milner type player.

mayordenis

colly10 wrote: »

I thought Babel was bought as a striker anyway? You can't really judge a player based on statistics, take Cisse for example, scored 18 goals in his last season with us iirc, he didn't play every game. Based on statistics you could argue that Cisse was great in his last season, yet most would agree he was septic

you have no idea what your talking about, cisse scored like nearly all of those goals in the qualifiers for the CL it's different to league assists - if you look at any player playing as a winger to get 13 or so goals and be in the top 5 of the *league* in terms of assists.

Mr Alan wrote: »

---

Mascherano--Barry

---

-Kuyt/Babel-Gerrard-Babel/New Player

---

Torres

---

Folks, i think people are gonna have to accept that next season will be lining up like this, the only real question is if the "new player" will be a Villa/Silva/Quaresma type player or a Riera/Downing/Milner type player.

I don't think anyone has to accept your nonsense.

Tusky

mayordenis wrote: »

you have no idea what your talking about, cisse scored like nearly all of those goals in the qualifiers for the CL it's different to league assists - if you look at any player playing as a winger to get 13 or so goals and be in the top 5 of the *league* in terms of assists..

Ciise scored nearly all of his 19 goals in the champions league qualifiers did he ? And you have the cheek to say that the other guy doesn't know what hes talking about?!?!

He scored 4 goals in the champions league qualifiers. He played most of the season on the wing and was often used as a substitute.

gixerfixer

zAbbo wrote: »

Kuyt himself admitted her performed poorly, I think he had a bereavement in the family as well (his father?)

His wide right position isn't a new one, and it is often used in Dutch football, he filled that role with Holland during the WC06 as well.

Indeed it was his father who was apparently his mentor and was very close to.All things considered Kuyt has done well second half of season and i think has found his best position out wide.He is not an out and out striker that's for sure but is more useful than pennent and benayon combined IMO and deserves another chance this season as his assists record as well as Champs league record is actually pretty good.

Mr Alan

mayordenis wrote: »

I don't think anyone has to accept your nonsense.

:(ha ha cheers mate!:eek:

well if i was you, i'd prepared to be disappointed

IrishMike

Mr Alan wrote: »

:(ha ha cheers mate!:eek:

well if i was you, i'd prepared to be disappointed

You never fail to disappoint me daily Al ;);)
Have you a team in the fantasty euros by the way?

Mr Alan

nah i didnt get around to it i'm afraid!

Too busy having Spain in the Boards Sweepstakes!

mayordenis

Tusky wrote: »

Ciise scored nearly all of his 19 goals in the champions league qualifiers did he ? And you have the cheek to say that the other guy doesn't know what hes talking about?!?!

He scored 4 goals in the champions league qualifiers. He played most of the season on the wing and was often used as a substitute.

ok so he scored a 5th of his goals against CL qual standard teams - he did score 9 in the league in 33 appearances - my bad

IrishMike

Mr Alan wrote: »

nah i didnt get around to it i'm afraid!

Too busy having Spain in the Boards Sweepstakes!

You probably would have crashed the site trying to put Torres on the team in
every position anyway

Mr Alan

IrishMike wrote: »

You probably would have crashed the site trying to put Torres on the team in
every position anyway

Only one position i want that lad in

Tusky

mayordenis wrote: »

ok so he scored a 5th of his goals against CL qual standard teams - he did score 9 in the league in 33 appearances - my bad

From the wing...alot of which were substitute apperances. Kuyt managed 3 goals (2 pens) in around 30 league apperances. More than half of those were as a striker with the rest as a winger.

colly10

mayordenis wrote: »

ok so he scored a 5th of his goals against CL qual standard teams - he did score 9 in the league in 33 appearances - my bad

I would say a very nice chunk of those appearances were from the bench with a few minutes to go, and alot of them he was also played on the right, he was our top scorer that season iirc. I'm not defending the chap, all im saying is that statistics alone are fairly worthless

Another example is pennant, did he not have a very high number of crosses into the box the season before joining us (and people were saying, ye thats what we need a guy who gets the crosses in), how do you think pennant has performed

IrishMike

Mr Alan wrote: »

Only one position i want that lad in

.......

This sums up my feelings perfectly!

Chardee MacDennis

we wont be getting Barry if Alonso doesnt leave imo, so we'll have to see how the summer plays out. realistically i would be surprised to see anything happen while the ECs are on anyway.

Dub13

Call_me_al wrote: »

realistically i would be surprised to see anything happen while the ECs are on anyway.

And maybe for a week or two after as most of the players will be on holidays then.