Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2008/2009

colly10

~Rebel~ wrote: »

He was inconsistant with his tricks and flicks yes, but his reading of the game, his simple passes, and his play making were actually quite consistant. They just got overshadowed by his more high profile errors and occasionally amazing skills. But he was a lot more then that.

I liked Garcia and always wanted to see him do well, thought it was only a matter of time till he came good. He gave the ball away far too cheaply far too often though, failing to make 5 yard passes or trying to be too fancy when it wasn't on (although he did produce some great goals from time to time). I think he was one of the more frustrating players in recent years (mainly because you could clearly see he did have talent)

The Rooster

The G Child wrote: »

I disagree totally about his dodgy moments out weighing his good. For me he will always be remembered for his goals against Juve and Chelsea on the way to Istanbul. He might have had a few flicks that dont come off, but I'll always remember the goals he scored.

No doubt Luis played a huge part in Liverpool winning the champions league, but it doesn't alter the fact that he gave the ball away or lost possession far too often.

Luis Garcia is a match winner, but when he's not a match winner, he's a liability - and he wasn't a match winner often enough.

zing

Call_me_al wrote: »

and the statement is linked to on the front page of Romas sites

Cheers - I'd just looked through the news archive section as I'd assumed that's where it would be. Good news then - hopefully the details can all be ironed out now and the move completed quickly.

Karmafaerie

"Luis Garcia
He drinks Sangria
He came from Barca
To Liverpool
He's 5ft7
He's football heaven
Why did they take, our Luis away"


*sniff sniff*

colly10

Read a few posts on here over the last while talking about buying a backup striker. Do people really think this is likely? I know buying Villa is very optimistic but when Crouch goes we will need to buy a decent first choice striker (not another squad player). Unless our aim is to finish 4th again next season we can't go the whole season with just one striker (even if it is Torres)

Karmafaerie

colly10 wrote: »

Read a few posts on here over the last while talking about buying a backup striker. Do people really think this is likely? I know buying Villa is very optimistic but when Crouch goes we will need to buy a decent first choice striker (not another squad player). Unless our aim is to finish 4th again next season we can't go the whole season with just one striker (even if it is Torres)

It depends on the player.
At the moment we play with one striker, and even as good as Crouch is, he couldn't break into the team, or change the formation.
if we buy a player like Villa, then he'd be "better" than the formation, but if the striker isn't then he's just gonna be sitting on a bench for most of the season, hence the term back-up.

missingtime

A lot of people here are mentioning nemeth as a possible bench player.
But we are gonna need someone as backup if torres gets injured.

We could switch formation to 442 with babel and nemeth up front.
Or babel and a new signing up front.

DeadSkin

colly10 wrote: »

we can't go the whole season with just one striker (even if it is Torres)

I think there is a chance of Babel being used as a striker from time to time next season.

Karmafaerie

Babel, Kuyt, Voronin, Nemeth, New signing....
If the worst happens and Torres is injured, we're not completely stuck.

colly10

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Babel, Kuyt, Voronin, Nemeth, New signing....
If the worst happens and Torres is injured, we're not completely stuck.

Kuyt and Voronin can't be relied on to get goals up front and I wouldn't rely on Nemeth. Id say Babel would do alright but it's hard to know. We'd be fairly badly stuck without Torres

IrishMike

Steve Sidwell is poised to fill a Gareth Barry shaped hole in the centre of Aston Villa's midfield. The Chelsea benchwarmer can be Martin O'Neill's for just £5 million of the £20 million they are asking Liverpool for in return for their captain. With the Sun saying the Sidwell deal is all but done.

No so for the Barry one, however, suggest the Mirror. The price tag slapped on the England player's head is considered "ludicrous" by Rafael Benitez, who is prepared to look elsewhere for a steady but unexceptional foil to keep Steven Gerrard happy.

Hope to hell this is true
Barry must be made of oil or something the way his price is rocketing.
Move on Rafa and buy Van Der Vaart!

Chardee MacDennis

colly10 wrote: »

Kuyt and Voronin can't be relied on to get goals up front and I wouldn't rely on Nemeth. Id say Babel would do alright but it's hard to know. We'd be fairly badly stuck without Torres

but who could we buy as a backup that is better than all those players yet happy to sit on the bench for about 60% of the season.

The G Child

IrishMike wrote: »

Hope to hell this is true
Barry must be made of oil or something the way his price is rocketing.
Move on Rafa and buy Van Der Vaart!

Van Der Vaart would probably cost more than Barry. There are not many alternatives out there for that "passing" midfield player we seem to be looking for. Wouldn't be too surprised to see someone like Albelda or Baraja coming in on the cheap if he moves on from Barry

IrishMike

The G Child wrote: »

Van Der Vaart would probably cost more than Barry. There are not many alternatives out there for that "passing" midfield player we seem to be looking for. Wouldn't be too surprised to see someone like Albelda or Baraja coming in on the cheap if he moves on from Barry

He wouldnt cost that much more and is a much much better player in my opinion.
How about Rafa raid his old club and buy Baraja?
I know he is 32 but he would be cheap and is a quality player.
Let Barry play for Villa and buy him for <10m next summer when his contract will almost be up.

Boggles

IrishMike wrote: »

He wouldnt cost that much more and is a much much better player in my opinion.

Very Similar situation players.

Barry and Van Der Vart, both captains and star players at there clubs, both new managers with a brief of pushing for Champions league.

Barry is proven in the toughest league in the world thou, so he would be less of a risk.

Boggles

The G Child wrote: »

Van Der Vaart would probably cost more than Barry. There are not many alternatives out there for that "passing" midfield player we seem to be looking for. Wouldn't be too surprised to see someone like Albelda or Baraja coming in on the cheap if he moves on from Barry

Valencia won't sell the old guard for little money - it just won't help them financially or on the pitch.

zAbbo

If we're gutting Valencia - I'd take Marchena, Baraja, and Albelda, and hey why not throw in Vincente, Joaquín and Villa

I reckon with Rafa's connections and Villencia's problems, we should be in for at least one of their players.

Karmafaerie

zAbbo wrote: »

If we're gutting Valencia - I'd take Marchena, Baraja, and Albelda, and hey why not throw in Vincente, Joaquín and Villa

I reckon with Rafa's connections and Villencia's problems, we should be in for at least one of their players.

Well he was in talks with them.

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Well he was in talks with them.

Haha, I wonder how those talks are going.

Rafa: I think we can help each other, So What seems to be the problem?

Valencia: We are in deep do do financially.

Rafa: I'll get my coat.

:pac:

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

Haha, I wonder how those talks are going.

Rafa: I think we can help each other, So What seems to be the problem?

Valencia: We are in deep do do financially.

Rafa: I'll get my coat.

:pac:

Seriously though.

It does put all of the Liverpool fans doom-mongering and complaining in perspective.

A lot of people here should look at Valancia, and count our blessings!

gucci

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Seriously though.

It does put all of the Liverpool fans doom-mongering and complaining in perspective.

A lot of people here should look at Valancia, and count our blessings!

Count our blessings or heed it as a warning? A big club regularly qualifying for champions league, building a new stadium (Sound familiar?), suddenly relegated and in financial strife......? (I dont know the ins and outs of their situation...does anyone? Maybe Rafa can tell us?)

Chardee MacDennis

gucci wrote: »

Count our blessings or heed it as a warning? A big club regularly qualifying for champions league, building a new stadium (Sound familiar?), suddenly relegated and in financial strife......? (I dont know the ins and outs of their situation...does anyone? Maybe Rafa can tell us?)

so when were Valencia relegated?

Karmafaerie

gucci wrote: »

Count our blessings or heed it as a warning? A big club regularly qualifying for champions league, building a new stadium (Sound familiar?), suddenly relegated and in financial strife......? (I dont know the ins and outs of their situation...does anyone? Maybe Rafa can tell us?)

It's not that similar really.

They were never a "big side".

They punched above their weight, and did well.
They tried to make the next step with the stadium, and bit off more than they could chew.
Then they gave Koeman a massive contract, which they had to pay off after firing him.
All in all, they're not as bad as the media makes out.

They knew that they'd be financially weak for a few years with the stadium, but the expected Koeman to get them into the CL as usual, not to drag them into a relegation battle!

So no CL money, and Koemans pay-off.
That's what the Villa transfer is to make up for.

missingtime

gucci wrote: »

Count our blessings or heed it as a warning? A big club regularly qualifying for champions league, building a new stadium (Sound familiar?), suddenly relegated and in financial strife......? (I dont know the ins and outs of their situation...does anyone? Maybe Rafa can tell us?)

Yea thats a bit scary actually.

The G Child

IrishMike wrote: »

He wouldnt cost that much more and is a much much better player in my opinion.
How about Rafa raid his old club and buy Baraja?
I know he is 32 but he would be cheap and is a quality player.
Let Barry play for Villa and buy him for <10m next summer when his contract will almost be up.

Have to say, I think the bidding for Van Der Vaart would cost upwards of £20m. Wasn't he linked with Chelsea in January for that figure.

~Rebel~

The G Child wrote: »

Have to say, I think the bidding for Van Der Vaart would cost upwards of £20m. Wasn't he linked with Chelsea in January for that figure.

any time chelsea are linked with someone, 5 or 10mill is added though. It all depends on if they're in for him. But it seems Deco is gonna be their new midfielder. As a rule, if chelsea go for someone, the price rises - and they get them. If they pull out his price will fall based on who else is in for him. Haven't really heard much of other top club linked to him (or us for that matter), so we could be in with a chance, if we want him.

IrishMike

gucci wrote: »

Count our blessings or heed it as a warning? A big club regularly qualifying for champions league, building a new stadium (Sound familiar?), suddenly relegated and in financial strife......? (I dont know the ins and outs of their situation...does anyone? Maybe Rafa can tell us?)

Leeds.....

The G Child

Seriously though, what other midfielders would you be happy to see come in if the Barry deal failed. What about De Rossi at Roma? He looks a good player or De La Red from Getafe? Van Der Vaart would be good for the right price. Not many options out there for less than Barry.

ibh

The G Child wrote: »

Seriously though, what other midfielders would you be happy to see come in if the Barry deal failed. What about De Rossi at Roma? He looks a good player or De La Red from Getafe? Van Der Vaart would be good for the right price. Not many options out there for less than Barry.

Basically as long as they have De at the start of their name they will be a class player..:D

I have always been a huge fan of deRossi apart from when he fcuked McBrides face up. He's pure quality and i'd say it'd take at least 20m to shift him.
DeLaRed is pretty good from what i've seen of Getafe, which admittedly is only 3 or 4 games, and i don't think he would cost nearly as much as Barry. Real have a really cheap buy back clause in his contract. I would guess he'd cost under £10m.
Always loved Van Der Vaart. He was linked with us about 4 or 5 years ago when he was playing in Holland and the attitude was causing problems. Apparently that was the reason we never went for him. Think it was the end of the Houllier era. I think when he made that switch to Germany it was for quite small money cause he was seen as a bit of a loose cannon. Value has increased exponentially since then and especially since Holland looking good so far.

Chardee MacDennis

Just gonna point this out here coz a few people dont seem to realise this; Valencia weren't relegated, they finished tenth.

They dont have to sell anyone really, but it would be heavily dependent on getting CL football next year. realistically they will probably sell Villa, but i dont think there will be a raid on Valencia.

monkey9

I was reading in the Guardian today that Mauro Zarate's brother/agent has said they've received a possible offer from a Premiership club? Wonder would that be Rafa. Didn't he seem to take an interest in him last season or at least looked at him when he was in Argentina??

Karmafaerie

Call_me_al wrote: »

Just gonna point this out here coz a few people dont seem to realise this; Valencia weren't relegated, they finished tenth.

They dont have to sell anyone really, but it would be heavily dependent on getting CL football next year. realistically they will probably sell Villa, but i dont think there will be a raid on Valencia.

It was pointed out by two of us.

And Valencia realistically do have to sell.

As I said, Valencia were in a financial hole due to the spiraling costs of the new stadium.
They needed CL football next season to offset this.
Instead, they got a relegation battle.
This cost them millions in CL money.
Millions in League placing money.
And then seeing as Koeman had three years left on his very lucrative contract, millions in paying him off.

They were scrapping by, now they're in the red.
They need to offload basically.

Bubs101

Valencia are in massive massive financial trouble so they do have to sell.

Regarding De Rossi, I'm almost 100% certain that he is going to follow in Totti's footsteps and stay at Roma for life, if he was for sale he would almost certainly go to a bigger club as well

Karmafaerie

monkey9 wrote: »

I was reading in the Guardian today that Mauro Zarate's brother/agent has said they've received a possible offer from a Premiership club? Wonder would that be Rafa. Didn't he seem to take an interest in him last season or at least looked at him when he was in Argentina??

Straight from Rafa's mouth, via Tony Barret last season.

One Birmingham player who has caught Benitez's eye is on loan Argentinian striker Mauro Zarate whom Liverpool have watched in the recent past.

"Zarate was a team-mate of Emiliano Insua in the Argentina team which won the Under-20 World Cup," he said.

"We were monitoring him because he is a very good striker. He is one of four brothers, all footballers, but he is the best.”

gucci

Apologies, i didnt mean to say relegated, meant down in relegation danger zone (typing fast at work before i got caught! )

It is scary though to think of what can happen to a club with one bad season though.

Karmafaerie

gucci wrote: »

Apologies, i didnt mean to say relegated, meant down in relegation danger zone (typing fast at work before i got caught! )

It is scary though to think of what can happen to a club with one bad season though.

Still, Valencia's issues are different to ours.

We are in financial trouble due to in-fighting.
If Hicks and Gilete were on the same page, the money would be freed up.
They're not as rich as we all hoped, but they're not spending now, as both are trying to raise the money to buy the other out.

Chardee MacDennis

Karmafaerie wrote: »

It was pointed out by two of us.

And Valencia realistically do have to sell.

As I said, Valencia were in a financial hole due to the spiraling costs of the new stadium.
They needed CL football next season to offset this.
Instead, they got a relegation battle.
This cost them millions in CL money.
Millions in League placing money.
And then seeing as Koeman had three years left on his very lucrative contract, millions in paying him off.

They were scrapping by, now they're in the red.
They need to offload basically.

i realise they are in massive debt but from what i have heard is selling two of their best players for E60m isnt going to be the difference between them staying afloat or not in the short term and hugely damaging in the long term. Koemans pay off was less than E10m afaik, but cant find anythign off hand to back this up.

so i reckon it will either be sell off Villa and 4/5 squad members or Silva and Villa but i highly doubt both situations will arise.

oh and Rafa has stated he has been monitoring the Zarate brothers for a few years now.

ibh

I think that i saw in the Indo today a different team linked to Zarate. Pretty sure it wasn't us though. Paper is out in the car thou, so i'll have to ckeck later.
To me he was a decent player in a bad team. WTF is a kid doing playing in the Qatar League if he's any good. I didn't see him play well consistently for Birmingham. Maybe he is the real deal though.

PHB

Valencia do have to sell, no doubt about that. But, they don't have to sell to a specific club. Villa will still go for big money because clubs will be wiling to pay it. For Villa and Silva, there will be no shortage of suiters. They might go on the cheap (as in not Benzema prices) but they are still going to be in the 20 million+

People should also consider the relative buying power of English clubs abroad this year is really hurt, because of the exchange rate changes. It used to be much much cheaper to buy European players since the Sterling was so strong, but now, english players may even be better value.

Karmafaerie

Call_me_al wrote: »

i realise they are in massive debt but from what i have heard is selling two of their best players for E60m isnt going to be the difference between them staying afloat or not in the short term and hugely damaging in the long term. Koemans pay off was less than E10m afaik, but cant find anythign off hand to back this up.

so i reckon it will either be sell off Villa and 4/5 squad members or Silva and Villa but i highly doubt both situations will arise.

The CL was worth £25,000,000
Finishing 10th would have cost them about £15,000,000
And Koemans payout was about £10-15,000,000

That's £50-55,000,000 that they were banking on!
They were close to going into financial peril before this season.
The disasterous onfield performance just pushed them to the edge.

Dont be at yourself

Valencia are in a terrible situation financially. As well as having to give Koeman a huge pay-off, they started work on the New Mestella anticipating that they could simply sell the existing ground to cover the costs.

However, they cant find a buyer for the current Mestella and so are saddled with paying for the new stadium by themselves. That's on top of their frequent managerial pay-offs, failure to qualify for the Champions League, and significant player purchases over the last 4 or 5 years.

Interestingly, I heard that Albelda is looking to be released on a free this summer. He's under contract, but had a huge falling out with the club and will no doubt be looking to leave. For a tough-tackling central midfielder with a good passing range, he'd be fantastic. He's been linked with Chelsea and Spurs though.

Their new manager, Emery, says he has been guaranteed that he can build a squad around Silva and Villa, but I can't realistically see Valencia turning down a decent offer for either of those two.

Dont be at yourself

People should also consider the relative buying power of English clubs abroad this year is really hurt, because of the exchange rate changes. It used to be much much cheaper to buy European players since the Sterling was so strong, but now, english players may even be better value.

A valid point, but it also means that transfer fees received from European clubs are worth more in sterling than in previous years. Also, I believe most big European clubs have cash reserves in both sterling and euro, and some clubs - Real, for example - actually have insurance policies taken out against fluctuating exchange rates to smooth cross-currency transactions.

In addition, you'd have to assume that Valencia would charge domestic rivals a premium on Silva and Villa, as they wont want to sell to a direct competitor. If they are forced to sell, they would undoubtedly prefer to sell to a foreign club.

Karmafaerie

ibh wrote: »

I think that i saw in the Indo today a different team linked to Zarate. Pretty sure it wasn't us though. Paper is out in the car thou, so i'll have to ckeck later.
To me he was a decent player in a bad team. WTF is a kid doing playing in the Qatar League if he's any good. I didn't see him play well consistently for Birmingham. Maybe he is the real deal though.

Prepare to see a lot of that.
Rich middle-easterners buying the big South American prospects, and then selling them off at a massive profit a few years later.

Think of Mr Joachim.

tonc76

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Think of Mr Joachim.

Julian? :rolleyes:

~Rebel~

Joorabchian maybe?

Boom_Bap

Portsmouth are keen on Mauro Zarate, who impressed during a loan spell at Birmingham last season.

From Teamtalk earlier today.

Karmafaerie

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Joorabchian maybe?

That be the one!

Damn it.

Me speling normerly be so gud!!!:D

woodyg

Riise is in Rome for talks, €6 million for him seems like a fair price and i would be happy to take it. That basically covers the Dossena deal so no real profit.
Hope the move gets him back on track.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7461405.stm

Chardee MacDennis

woodyg wrote: »

Riise is in Rome for talks, €6 million for him seems like a fair price and i would be happy to take it. That basically covers the Dossena deal so no real profit.
Hope the move gets him back on track.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7461405.stm

great for both us and Riise, I really didnt think he would end up at a big club - obviously some people still rate him.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Portsmouth are keen on Mauro Zarate, who impressed during a loan spell at Birmingham last season.

From Teamtalk earlier today.

Rafa has said that he was looking at him and his brother before. Looks decent but I would say that having seen him he is not all that better than Nemeth who I watched a lot last season.