Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2008/2009

spockety

Boggles wrote: »

Quite persumptious this morning Master Alan. Paranoia doesn't suit you, chillax.

The point was made that Rafa has not been backed financially. IMO he has been. He has been good in recouping money in his sales, but you can't say the board have not trusted him with money.

Mr Alan is right, you can read all about Rafa's financial support, and the view of most people here, Liverpool supporters or not, by reading back through this thread, and then you can spend time reading through the other 10,000+ posts in the previous incarnation of this thread, which discuss it all in very great detail.

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

Quite persumptious this morning Master Alan. Paranoia doesn't suit you, chillax.

The point was made that Rafa has not been backed financially. IMO he has been. He has been good in recouping money in his sales, but you can't say the board have not trusted him with money.

So saying if he had got this guy or that guy etc, we would have a brilliant team is rubbish.

Any team could do the same and say we could have got Ronaldo, etc years ago for 12 million.

The most Rafa spent on a player, before last season, was £9,000,000.
I fail to see how this is backing?
Everyone points out how much Rafa has spent, but as you yourself point out, he gets most of that back if things don't work out.

Last season was the first time since money properly took over football, that Liverpool managed to "spend".
To invest a lot in one player, taking the risk that he'd flop, rather than having to buy three okay players, hoping that one would shine.

And for that we got Torres, Babel, Masch, and to a lesser extent Skertl.

Going from £9,000,000 - £22,000,000 is one hell of a jump.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

how often do you reckon in the last 5 years, SAF has been told he cant have an extra 4 million to sign a player he desperately wanted?

Rafa has been given a lot of money, no doubting it, but he has been asked to turn Liverpool into a title winning team, this takes serious money. and the way to do that is not to limit your managers choices so that he rarely is able to afford his first choice players. SAF would struggle with that in this day and age and Jose left Chelsea partly because of that.

The simple fact is, a lot of players Rafa wants to bring in, who are available, we cannot afford.

But Liverpool don't have the finances of United, the last person that was not turned down for money in the transfer market was O'Leary we all know how that turned out.

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

But Liverpool don't have the finances of United

That is exactly my point.

At least you are not trying to pretend its a level playing field. Our club has suffered from decades of mismanagement. Rafa is rebuilding the club from the ground up.

we are going in the right direction and Rafa has shown he is more than capable of spending money.

I am still confident that even not having the resources available to his rivals, Rafa can do wat has to be done if given the time and nescessary backing.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

At least you are not trying to pretend its a level playing field.

Of course it's not a level playing field, and results reflect this. But that's no ones fault but Liverpools.

Dont be at yourself

But Liverpool don't have the finances of United, the last person that was not turned down for money in the transfer market was O'Leary we all know how that turned out.

This point is unrelated - and indeed, contradictory - to your original argument though. It's a fair point to say giving Rafa a blank cheque book could lead to disaster - but imagine Liverpool had done so. The players we've been linked with or almost signed were lightyears away from some of O'Leary's turkeys!

The players that Liverpool 'almost' signed have virtually all gone on to bigger and better things. We were outbid or couldnt meet the then asking price on the likes of Aguero, Villa, Cheillini, Ronaldo, Vidic, Alves and perhaps even more. All have since developed and their price tags have gone through the roof.

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

Of course it's not a level playing field, and results reflect this. But that's no ones fault but Liverpools.

agree.

Not mine, not yours, not SAFs, not Rafas.

Boggles

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

The players that Liverpool 'almost' signed have virtually all gone on to bigger and better things. We were outbid or couldnt meet the then asking price on the likes of Aguero, Villa, Cheillini, Ronaldo, Vidic, Alves and perhaps even more. All have since developed and their price tags have gone through the roof.

But that's not exclusive to Liverpool, you could go through alot of the top teams and compile a similar list and the resulting team would be a world 11.

zAbbo

round and round she goes...

Now who's going down to Punxsutawney Phil?

ShoulderChip

JPA wrote: »

You really have to question what kind of journalists they have working for them.

huh i dont get it?
its dated the 8th of June, or there mistakes in it?

spockety

Boggles wrote: »

But that's not exclusive to Liverpool, you could go through alot of the top teams and compile a similar list and the resulting team would be a world 11.

I reckon this deserves it's own thread...

missingtime

ShoulderChip wrote: »

huh i dont get it?
its dated the 8th of June, or there mistakes in it?

The mirror reported that rafa was lookin for 50m for villa,alves,barry but they forgot to note that alves has already gone to barca

ShoulderChip

oh right cheers, typical.

Karmafaerie

Rafa Benitez slams £50m demand
Jun 24 2008 EXCLUSIVE by David Prentice, Liverpool Echo

LIVERPOOL boss Rafael Benitez today rubbished reports claiming he has demanded a £50m transfer fund from the club's American owners.

The Reds boss woke up this morning to several stories which suggested he was risking Anfield’s fragile peace pact by demanding money for David Villa, Daniel Alves and David Silva – as well as Gareth Barry.

But Benitez says he has not spoken to any journalists and has no idea where the reports originated.

“The stories are ridiculous. Total rubbish,” said Benitez.

“They have me trying to sign Daniel Alves, who already has an agreement with Barcelona, so how could I be trying to sign him?

“I am working hard with Rick Parry, who is in regular contact with the Americans, and there are no problems.

“The reports are just unbelievable.”

Benitez has accepted that he must juggle his resources this summer, moving some players on to bring in others.

He has already moved on John Arne Riise, and Andrea Dossena will put pen to paper on a £7m transfer from Udinese as soon as he returns from honeymoon.

Benitez is also trying to reach agreement with Aston Villa over Gareth Barry’s transfer as the next priority.

From todays Echo.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/06/24/rafa-benitez-slams-50m-demand-100252-21141606/

Also explains the delay in the Dossena contract signing.
Makes sence too.
He completed the medical a day before his wedding, went straight home and got married, and then off on honeymoon.
He was gracious enough to come over for the medical, so that Liverpool would know that they have him and move on with other targets, while he then had a few weeks with his new wife.
Nothing to do with "slick" Rick after all.

Mr Alan

Prentice is a tit.

Karmafaerie

Mr Alan wrote: »

Prentice is a tit.

Valid point.
That means that the direct quotes from Rafa are useless then!!!:rolleyes:

Tusky

Journalist write reports as if they were creative writing essays. I dont know how they get away with it.

Chardee MacDennis

Karmafaerie wrote: »

The most Rafa spent on a player, before last season, was £9,000,000.

while i agree with everyones view here on rafa not getting financial backing, lets not go making up stats Rafa bought Alonso for 10.75m - i realise i am nit picking but a non-liverpool fan would get slated on here for being out if the argument was the other way...

Mr Alan

Karmafaerie wrote: »

That means that the direct quotes from Rafa are useless then!!!:rolleyes:

My opinion was nothing to do with that article, he is only doing it cause TB is away on holidays till the the start of July, cant imagine Rafa and Prentice are best mates either. My opinion is based on reading the ****e he has written in the last few years.

yom 1

LFC.tv wrote:

Liverpool City Council granted full planning permission on June 19 to Liverpool Football Club to build a 60,000 seater stadium and outline planning permission for a mixed use development on the existing Anfield stadium site.
The stadium will incorporate a club shop, conference and banqueting facilities, parking for almost 1,000 vehicles and a Community Partnership centre. Its design is ultimately capable of accommodating up to 73,000 people subject to further planning permission.

LFC has instructed Laing O'Rourke to commence enabling works under a licence issued by the Liverpool City Council. Works started on June 23.

Co-chairman George Gillett said: "This is a significant milestone for the club and I am delighted that the design received full planning consent and that we are now on site.

"We have been working very hard over the last six months to move the details of the design along but this is the first tangible evidence for fans that a New LFC Stadium will be built.

"The stadium design is unique and will be recognised across the world as the Liverpool FC Stadium. It incorporates a Kop stand that will hold 18,000 fans and we hope that the stadium will be as noisy and atmospheric on a matchday as Anfield."

Co-chairman Tom Hicks added: "We recognise the importance of a new LFC Stadium as part of the wider regeneration of the local area.

"We have watched the council transform Stanley Park over the last six months and the ongoing refurbishment of houses in the Anfield/ Breckfield area. I am pleased that now the club has received full planning permission it can join the regeneration process with the commencement of enabling works."

The stadium is on programme to open for the beginning of the 2011-12 season.

Has the stadium work finally began?

~Rebel~

Boggles wrote: »

But that's not exclusive to Liverpool, you could go through alot of the top teams and compile a similar list and the resulting team would be a world 11.

Thats true to a point, if your going by speculation, but the annoying thing with liverpool is that things had progressed a long way with most of these near signings, and then the final step couldn't be taken (always a very small step), only for the whole thing to be rehased again a year later when Rafa would try and get his man again. We were on the verge of capturing Aguero, Villa and Alves. Not just interested, but inches away, with the deals collapsing for the sake of 2 or so mill. What makes it doubley annoying is that the money was there, in that he could have gotten one less player that window, and concluded these 'star' deals, but i dont blame Rafa for this, it always looks like under the Moores+Rafa era it was very much a quantity over quality approach as pool couldn't afford to shell out only for that player to fail. Couldn't put all the eggs in one basket so to speak. What also backs this up is that as soon as the americans gave him money, he gets Masch, Babel and Torres in. No squabbling there, no decision to go for quantity, just identifying the players he wanted and getting them.

Boggles

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Thats true to a point, if your going by speculation, but the annoying thing with liverpool is that things had progressed a long way with most of these near signings,

And you know for a fact Livepool were inches away from securing these deals. By fact I don't mean newspaper or tabloid reports, sound or video, if not it's just as much speculation as all the rest.

Mr Alan

I love the different standards fans equate depending on wat club they are talking about, and depending on how they feel about the issue.

spockety

yom 1 wrote: »

Has the stadium work finally began?

Looks like it..

The previous big planning news from a few months back was the go ahead for a 45,000 seater.. so presumably they have satisfied enough requirements to get the go ahead for 60K which will allow them to actually work on the site..

Hopefully the plan is still to have it actually open as a 73K capacity stadium..

Karmafaerie

Mr Alan wrote: »

My opinion was nothing to do with that article, he is only doing it cause TB is away on holidays till the the start of July, cant imagine Rafa and Prentice are best mates either. My opinion is based on reading the ****e he has written in the last few years.

I'm not saying that he's not a Tit, and I'm waiting for TB to gt back as much as the next man.
I'm just pointing out that whether he's a tit or not, doesn't detract from the fact that Rafa made those quotes.
Some papers had been saying things about him, which are complete crap (nothing new there!:D).

Coincidentaly. Everyone knows that Rafa and TB are close enough.
Reckon TB took his holidays during a period where he knew nothing would happen transferwise?
He's due back from next week I think, so that's when I expect the real transfer work to happen.

Karmafaerie

Call_me_al wrote: »

while i agree with everyones view here on rafa not getting financial backing, lets not go making up stats Rafa bought Alonso for 10.75m - i realise i am nit picking but a non-liverpool fan would get slated on here for being out if the argument was the other way...

Oppps!:D

(Point still stands though.)

Mr Alan

TB is due back on the 07/07 afaik

*we signed Torres on 04/07 if my memory serves me right

Dont be at yourself

Does anyone think it's a little strange that Rafa was so quick to deny the reports? He's normally very quiet with regards to papertalk.

Between that, and Balague and the Echo (Liverpool's mouthpiece), one might even assume Liverpool are trying very hard to let everyone know that they have no money.

~Rebel~

Boggles wrote: »

And you know for a fact Livepool were inches away from securing these deals. By fact I don't mean newspaper or tabloid reports, sound or video, if not it's just as much speculation as all the rest.

...you know what i mean, it becomes increasingly obvious from the way the coverage goes if something is gonna happen. For instance the Barry deal, or Villa closing in on Sidwell where there are comments of interest and continued coverage. Meanwhile by pure speculation i mean where the journalist on his own behalf decides somebody is gonna buy somebody else, like the 30 or 40 random links that pop up in the tabloids each day.

And obviously newspaper reports with quotes or sound and video interviews Aren't speculation so im not sure why you put that there....

Tusky

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Does anyone think it's a little strange that Rafa was so quick to deny the reports? He's normally very quiet with regards to papertalk.

Between that, and Balague and the Echo (Liverpool's mouthpiece), one might even assume Liverpool are trying very hard to let everyone know that they have no money.

It could also mean that he doesnt want the fans to be disappointed. This story was different as well. It wasnt just linking us to players, it was Rafa DEMANDING money and it spoke of a potential civil war at Anfield because of it. Thats probably why he was so quick to deny them.

Although he only denied Alves and didnt mention Silva or Villa....!

~Rebel~

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Does anyone think it's a little strange that Rafa was so quick to deny the reports? He's normally very quiet with regards to papertalk.

Between that, and Balague and the Echo (Liverpool's mouthpiece), one might even assume Liverpool are trying very hard to let everyone know that they have no money.

Id say it might be down to things being tense enough as it is without the americans actually thinking he's gone to the media demanding things again. They only seem to be just about back on talking terms now so its probably best that nothing at all gets in the way of healing the communications.

Chardee MacDennis

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Id say it might be down to things being tense enough as it is without the americans actually thinking he's gone to the media demanding things again. They only seem to be just about back on talking terms now so its probably best that nothing at all gets in the way of healing the communications.

i'd agree; rafa just doesnt want to rock the boat at the moment.

Hobart

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Id say it might be down to things being tense enough as it is without the americans actually thinking he's gone to the media demanding things again. They only seem to be just about back on talking terms now so its probably best that nothing at all gets in the way of healing the communications.

I'd say you have hit the nail on the head there. With the past goings on between Rafa, the press and the Americans, I'd imagine he would want to stamp down immediately on any indication that he was demanding anything.

zAbbo

I thought Rafa got his own man in to broker the Torres deal, didn't want Parry to mess it up.

Anyway, the window isn't open until July, and I'm sure Rafa want's to get his players in before pre-season starts.

zing

Tusky wrote: »

it spoke of a potential civil war at Anfield

And we all know there isn't room for another one of those atm - battlefields are overcrowded already.

And Hicks & Gillet are said to still not be talking directly to each other but rather their 'people' have started talking to each other again. Baby steps 'n all that.

Kimbot

Simao was another last minute blunder for whatever reason.

I would imagine on the 10/11th of July we should have a very good idea of what our full squad for next season will be.

zing

Leeds to take Nemeth & Ajdarevic on loan next season ?
http://www.leedsunited-mad.co.uk/news/loadnews.asp?cid=TMNW&id=395971

Surprised to see this. Ajdarevic was supposed to be leaving and while I agee that regular first team football would do Nemeth no harm I'd have thought that if he was going on loan that it would be to a higher league. That said given that there were reports of Rafa offering Gary Mac a job he possibly would trust him to oversea the development of two of the best prospects at the club.

Tusky

jonny24ie wrote: »

Simao was another last minute blunder for whatever reason.

I would imagine on the 10/11th of July we should have a very good idea of what our full squad for next season will be.

Almost every time Ive seen him play he has been muck (expect against us in the champions league). I really dislike him. He was terrible in the Euros also. Cant believe him AND Nani were above Queresma in the pecking order.

yom 1

Tusky wrote: »

Almost every time Ive seen him play he has been muck (expect against us in the champions league). I really dislike him. He was terrible in the Euros also. Cant believe him AND Nani were above Queresma in the pecking order.

Yeah I think we dodged an expensive bullet there too

event

zing wrote: »

Leeds to take Nemeth & Ajdarevic on loan next season ?
http://www.leedsunited-mad.co.uk/news/loadnews.asp?cid=TMNW&id=395971

Surprised to see this. Ajdarevic was supposed to be leaving and while I agee that regular first team football would do Nemeth no harm I'd have thought that if he was going on loan that it would be to a higher league. That said given that there were reports of Rafa offering Gary Mac a job he possibly would trust him to oversea the development of two of the best prospects at the club.

bit strange though

we have beckford who is the best striker in the league probably and gary mac has been actively seeking another striker, but an older cleverer striker, like kevin phillips, seeing how well freedman did with us.

i dont know where nemeth would fit in, would rafa like him to be (maybe) 3rd choice? by all accounts in here, he's supposed to be pure class

monkey9

Anyone know when the players are back in training??

monkey9

event wrote: »

bit strange though

we have beckford who is the best striker in the league probably and gary mac has been actively seeking another striker, but an older cleverer striker, like kevin phillips, seeing how well freedman did with us.

i dont know where nemeth would fit in, would rafa like him to be (maybe) 3rd choice? by all accounts in here, he's supposed to be pure class

Is Beckford not on his way out?? I thought i read somewhere he was looking for a move to the Championship!

Tusky

event wrote: »

bit strange though

we have beckford who is the best striker in the league probably and gary mac has been actively seeking another striker, but an older cleverer striker, like kevin phillips, seeing how well freedman did with us.

i dont know where nemeth would fit in, would rafa like him to be (maybe) 3rd choice? by all accounts in here, he's supposed to be pure class

Are you a Leeds or Liverpool fan ?

~Rebel~

Tusky wrote: »

Are you a Leeds or Liverpool fan ?

he's a leeds fan.

I think it would be a great move for Ajdaravic, looks a very good young player, would doubt he'd be breaking into pools first team for another 2 or so years so incrementally going from league 1 and then championship might help his development. Nemeth though i'd nearly prefer to see in the championship or even premiership to give us a better indicator if he could make it with pool sooner rather then later. Even if he's great at League 1, you could never be sure he could step up to top premiership level.

Tusky

event wrote: »

I agree. I think it would be a loss for us to loan Nemeth out to Leeds, but that only goes to show how highly I rate him. I really want to see him tested at a higher level.

I have no doubt he would score bucket loads of goals for Leeds. Yea should be over the moon to be getting him! Hard working, skillful and very clinical striker. Top scorer and player of the season for the reserves as well as recently making his debut for the Hungarian national team. Hes scored lots of goals for the under 21 and under 18 Hungarian national side also.

Season review : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTQtrsfkOp8

Karmafaerie

Tusky wrote: »

I agree. I think it would be a loss for us to loan Nemeth out to Leeds, but that only goes to show how highly I rate him. I really want to see him tested at a higher level.

I have no doubt he would score bucket loads of goals for Leeds. Yea should be over the moon to be getting him! Hard working, skillful and very clinical striker. Top scorer and player of the season for the reserves as well as recently making his debut for the Hungarian national team. Hes scored lots of goals for the under 21 and under 18 Hungarian national side also.

And scoring twice IIRC.

event

oh im delighted he'd be joining, he's supposed to be class

but i just cant see how we will play (i realise i should be discussing this in the leeds thread )

only thing i will say is that since gary mac has come in, we have played passing football(as well as ye cant at league 1) so he wont be going into a team of hoofers, at least the ball will be on the deck for him. and it could toughen him up too, maybe rafa wants that if he is small

Monkey - Dont think so, we dont have to sell and it looks like he'll be kept for this season anyway.

Tusky

event wrote: »

oh im delighted he'd be joining, he's supposed to be class

but i just cant see how we will play (i realise i should be discussing this in the leeds thread )

only thing i will say is that since gary mac has come in, we have played passing football(as well as ye cant at league 1) so he wont be going into a team of hoofers, at least the ball will be on the deck for him. and it could toughen him up too, maybe rafa wants that if he is small

Monkey - Dont think so, we dont have to sell and it looks like he'll be kept for this season anyway.

Well the Liverpool reserves play a passing game also. They usually dont rely on long balls.

event

that'd be good at least, it would be what he is used to

any links to this on pool sites though?

dc69

event wrote: »

oh im delighted he'd be joining, he's supposed to be class

but i just cant see how we will play (i realise i should be discussing this in the leeds thread )

only thing i will say is that since gary mac has come in, we have played passing football(as well as ye cant at league 1) so he wont be going into a team of hoofers, at least the ball will be on the deck for him. and it could toughen him up too, maybe rafa wants that if he is small

Monkey - Dont think so, we dont have to sell and it looks like he'll be kept for this season anyway.

This guy is absolutely class,hopefully he will get good game time at leeds.I think he will be top scorer tbh.

Also,if the rumours on the villa thread are true,that oneill wants bentley and I saw another stoy where he asked rafa to stop persueing bentley,in return they will deal on the barry transfer.

This signals to me that we are getting a better player than bentley,maybe quaresma or silva.
Now Quaresma said he wants to go to Inter,but murinho would have brought him to chelsea if he had wanted him.I think we may well have signed quaresma.

This about sums up quaresmas career

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/06/07/quaresma_struggles_to_break_fr.html