Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2008/2009

zing

Insua pens a new three year deal.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N160392080702-1332.htm

Wasn't he one of the players we had supposedly offered to the barcodes for Milner. Didn't believe that story then because of the supposed inclusion of Insua and this reaffirms it for me.

Also the club are using the word 'sale' in relation to Le Tallec's xfer - that implies we actually got some money for him. What a crazy world this is :rolleyes:

Karmafaerie

LZ5by5 wrote: »

+1 Exactly. I entirely support Rafa's refusal to be extorted and I believe also that this is the reason it has been delayed so long. O'Neil wants it both ways. He rates Barry at £18m yet he doesn't rate one of the most talented english goalkeepers around to be worth anything close to £8m.

I've said it before.

This whole thing has really dropped MON down so much in my estimation.

He really has been completely out of order at every step.

Lying and viciously accusing Rafa, only to ignore it completely when proven wrong.

Going on about how much they want to keep Barry, but not even talking to him about it.

Rating Barry at £18 mill and not budging, but expecting Rafa to drop his rating of Carson by half of what he agreed was his value 12 months ago!!!

And through it all, all you hear is nothing from Rafa, while MON shouts to anyone who'll listen about Liverpool going to the media!!!

He really takes the buiscuit!

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Rating Barry at £18 mill and not budging, but expecting Rafa to drop his rating of Carson by half of what he agreed was his value 12 months ago!!!

TBH what does Rafa know about Carson. He has basically used him to generate pocket money for the past few years.

Liverpool have recouped at least 3 times the value of Carson without ever giving him much.

I feel sorry for Carson, he is owned by a club that doesn't want him and plays for a club who won't pay for him.

As for the valuation of Carson, isn't the record fee payed for a goal keeper 9m odd?

Pyjamarama

The british record is but the actual record is but Buffon went for mad money iirc.

Handsome Bob

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I've said it before.

This whole thing has really dropped MON down so much in my estimation.

He really has been completely out of order at every step.

Lying and viciously accusing Rafa, only to ignore it completely when proven wrong.

Going on about how much they want to keep Barry, but not even talking to him about it.

Rating Barry at £18 mill and not budging, but expecting Rafa to drop his rating of Carson by half of what he agreed was his value 12 months ago!!!

And through it all, all you hear is nothing from Rafa, while MON shouts to anyone who'll listen about Liverpool going to the media!!!

He really takes the buiscuit!

He's probably taking a leaf out of Ferguson's book here. He's letting Ronaldo stew to show him who's "boss". O'Neil is trying to do the same thing to Barry. Of course both are just showing how stubborn they are and how they are being just as "petulant" as the want-a-way players that they are trying to teach a lesson. It's pathetic. On two occasions Benitez never stood in Gerrard's way, his best player, when he wanted to leave for a rival. It's pathetic on O'Neil's part.

Handsome Bob

Boggles wrote: »

TBH what does Rafa know about Carson. He has basically used him to generate pocket money for the past few years.

Liverpool have recouped at least 3 times the value of Carson without ever giving him much.

I feel sorry for Carson, he is owned by a club that doesn't want him and plays for a club who won't pay for him.

As for the valuation of Carson, isn't the record fee payed for a goal keeper 9m odd?

In England yes. And that was Craig Gordon who is hardly better than Carson.:)

--amadeus--

Boggles wrote: »

TBH what does Rafa know about Carson. He has basically used him to generate pocket money for the past few years.

errr, he's his manager... While Carson may not have been at the club on a day today basis it's a bit insulting to suggest that his club manager knows nothing about him

Boggles wrote: »

Liverpool have recouped at least 3 times the value of Carson without ever giving him much.

3 times his value? Are you seriously trying to suggest that LFC has gathered 15 - 25 million (depending on your idea of his value) in loan fees?!

Boggles wrote: »

I feel sorry for Carson, he is owned by a club that doesn't want him and plays for a club who won't pay for him.

On the contrary, LFC do want Carson - fans, players and management. However we also see that he is not going to replace one of Europes best keepers (Reina) but he's probably too good to just warm the bench. Best solution all round is for him to move on. BTW do you get this empathy atack every time a player is sold by a club?

Handsome Bob

Breaking News on Sky Sports

Gareth Barry disciplined by Aston Villa for comments made about Martin O' Neil. Aston Villa say Barry will not return to pre-season training tomorrow.


This just keeps getting pettier and pettier.

DeadSkin

I'm not surprised he's gettin' disciplined.

Blackhorse Slim

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Breaking News on Sky Sports

Gareth Barry disciplined by Aston Villa for comments made about Martin O' Neil. Aston Villa say Barry will not return to pre-season training tomorrow.


This just keeps getting pettier and pettier.

So, far from being a model professional, he now has a history of disciplinary problems. Should knock a few million off his valuation

Boggles

--amadeus-- wrote: »

errr, he's his manager... While Carson may not have been at the club on a day today basis it's a bit insulting to suggest that his club manager knows nothing about him

Managers get a good feel of players of how they preform not just in matches but on how they conduct themselves day to day around the club. considering Carson has been working in London and in Birmingham, it would be safe to assume Rafa does not have this level of knowledge of him.

--amadeus-- wrote: »

3 times his value? Are you seriously trying to suggest that LFC has gathered 15 - 25 million (depending on your idea of his value) in loan fees?!

Yeah they have already gathered 25 million, and will get a further 8. :rolleyes:

3 times what they paid for him reported at 750,000 - 1m. K?

--amadeus-- wrote: »

On the contrary, LFC do want Carson - fans, players and management.

You speak for all fans, players and management?

--amadeus-- wrote: »

BTW do you get this empathy atack every time a player is sold by a club?

No.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

In England yes.

We are talking about a transfer in England.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

And that was Craig Gordon who is hardly better than Carson.:)

Gordon is different level IMO.

Handsome Bob

DeadSkin wrote: »

I'm not surprised he's gettin' disciplined.

Yet Ronaldo hasn't been disciplined for saying he doesn't care what Ferguson thinks and that it is his decision in the end.

redcrew

So today we finally sold off Le Tallec....does anyone know how much we got for him?? It could only have been change really but just curious as to his value

DeadSkin

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Yet Ronaldo hasn't been disciplined for saying he doesn't care what Ferguson thinks and that it is his decision in the end.

Couldn't care less about Ronaldo, has no relation to the Barry/Liverpool saga.

Handsome Bob

Boggles wrote: »

Gordon is different level IMO.

Are you basing that on how he did for Hearts in the very average SPL? Or how he's done for Sunderland against a better class of opponent in the PL? Because aside of a competent run at the end of the season, he was average just as the back four was awful for Sunderland last season. They are on the same level bub.

Boggles

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Are you basing that on how he did for Hearts in the very average SPL? Or how he's done for Sunderland against a better class of opponent in the PL? Because aside of a competent run at the end of the season, he was average just as the back four was awful for Sunderland last season. They are on the same level bub.

No I'm basing it on how I always rate footballers, by actually watching them play.

Handsome Bob

DeadSkin wrote: »

Couldn't care less about Ronaldo, has no relation to the Barry/Liverpool saga.

Both have spoken out of turn over their future. I can draw comparison's because of this.

Handsome Bob

Boggles wrote: »

No I'm basing it on how I always rate footballers, by actually watching them play.

Really? Because as I said I watched him as much as possible last season, and against a better class of opponent, he was erractic in many games. Examples that come to mind is the game against Everton (7-0). The poor Sunderland defence is not an excuse either.

Mr Alan

Gordon and Carson are on a par imo, Carson was overpriced at 9m....we should be looking for 6-8 for carson imo.

otherwise keep him as number 2

Boggles

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Really? Because as I said I watched him as much as possible last season, and against a better class of opponent, he was erractic in many games. The poor Sunderland defence is not an excuse either.

United V Sunderland at old Trafford, he was man of the match.
He was also suberb against France and Italy this season.

They are just 3 examples.

I take your point about the bad defence, cannot be easy concentrate thou, when you have Paul "RollerSkates" McShane" in front of you.

Handsome Bob

Mr Alan wrote: »

Gordon and Carson are on a par imo, Carson was overpriced at 9m....we should be looking for 6-8 for carson imo.

otherwise keep him as number 2

Exactly. Both are great keepers but lack what every world class goalkeeper needs and that's consistentcy.

Handsome Bob

Boggles wrote: »

United V Sunderland at old Trafford, he was man of the match.
He was also suberb against France and Italy this season.

They are just 3 examples.

I take your point about the bad defence, cannot be easy concentrate thou, when you have Paul "RollerSkates" McShane" in front of you.

As in my previous post, I acknowledge that he's a great goalkeeper but he hasn't been consistent this season. It's not easy certainly when there is a poor defence in front of you, McShane's performance against Everton was perhaps the worst performance I saw from any player last season.

Boggles

LZ5by5 wrote: »

McShane's performance against Everton was perhaps the worst performance I saw from any player last season.

Yeah McShane certainly took a nose dive.

I wonder was he every drug tested after that Czech match?

--amadeus--

Boggles wrote: »

Managers get a good feel of players of how they preform not just in matches but on how they conduct themselves day to day around the club. considering Carson has been working in London and in Birmingham, it would be safe to assume Rafa does not have this level of knowledge of him.



Yeah they have already gathered 25 million, and will get a further 8. :rolleyes:

3 times what they paid for him reported at 750,000 - 1m. K?



You speak for all fans, players and management?

There is a difference between what we paid for Carson and what he's worth. I don't claim to speak for teh entirety of LFC but all the supporters I know like Carson and would like him to stay at the club, but not replacing Reina. Management and players always have positive things to say about him, but if you can link to stories of negativity feel free, I'm always willing to change my mind in the face of proof;or at least have the good grace not to shout about my minority opinion over and over and over again despite the fact that it clearly annoys people.

Nice work dragging the thread off to discuss yet another player with no connection with LFC by the way.

Boggles

--amadeus-- wrote: »

There is a difference between what we paid for Carson and what he's worth.

I know I just explained it to you.

Move on and stop being so aggressive.

Reganio 2

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Is it really necessary lads to dismiss someone "as a child" and to tell him he plays too much Football Manager just because you disagree with his opinion?

Thank you.

And for everybody's information not like I give a f*** what you think I didn't get them names from Football manager I could have gotten a lot of different probably better names from their. Those are players ,except for Turan who I seen at the EC, I have seen at various youth tournaments that have impressed me.

So smartarse's in here next time someone posts something you don't agree with don't all jump on there back and make yourself feel all high and mighty. Like I said IMO I don't want him as he is dodgey some games, would people have thought Morientes would have done nothing for us? I know he had never kicked a ball in the prem.

So come on smartarse's come back with your sarcastic comments instead of having a proper disscusion if you can have one.

Boggles

I havn't played Football Manager in years, it was called Championship Manager back in my day. :pac:

But it was scarey how accurate they were with some of the younger unknown players.

estebancambias

Yeah was just thinking that myself, but I was looking at Ashley Young in the FM editor, and his potential ability was 137. This game was released 4 months before he joined Villa for 9 million.

I'm hoping their Conor Clifford estimation comes to pass.

Mr Alan

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Thank you.

And for everybody's information not like I give a f*** what you think I didn't get them names from Football manager I could have gotten a lot of different probably better names from their. Those are players ,except for Turan who I seen at the EC, I have seen at various youth tournaments that have impressed me.

So smartarse's in here next time someone posts something you don't agree with don't all jump on there back and make yourself feel all high and mighty. Like I said IMO I don't want him as he is dodgey some games, would people have thought Morientes would have done nothing for us? I know he had never kicked a ball in the prem.

So come on smartarse's come back with your sarcastic comments instead of having a proper disscusion if you can have one.

tbh mate the only thing you said that pissed me off was you said you didnt respect Rafa.

Reganio 2

I suppose respect wasn't the right word, like would have been more suitable.

I don't like Rafa, but I respect him.

--amadeus--

a 1500 strong scouting network - they reckon that a lot of club sides use the FM database. Interesting article here on it.

Karmafaerie

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Thank you.

And for everybody's information not like I give a f*** what you think I didn't get them names from Football manager I could have gotten a lot of different probably better names from their. Those are players ,except for Turan who I seen at the EC, I have seen at various youth tournaments that have impressed me.

So smartarse's in here next time someone posts something you don't agree with don't all jump on there back and make yourself feel all high and mighty. Like I said IMO I don't want him as he is dodgey some games, would people have thought Morientes would have done nothing for us? I know he had never kicked a ball in the prem.

So come on smartarse's come back with your sarcastic comments instead of having a proper disscusion if you can have one.

He reacted aggressively, but probably due to the fact that your point is just wrong.

Keane isn't a Morientes.
Morientes is a great player who never adapted.
Keane is a tailor made premiership striker.

In his 6 or so years at Tottenham ,playing with a slew of middle talent players, he's scored 107 goals!!!

He's scored over 100 premiership goals with all clubs.
That's impressive.

He creats so many chance, and with the hard non-glorious work he's done for Tottenham, he's made Berbatov look a hell of a lot better than he actually is.

Robbie Keane would be a great player for us, and I'm sorry if you disagree, but hey, oppions are like ar*eholes and all that!:P

raven136

tbh i think carson is good not great and keepers like him are two a penny.He never fills me with confidence and his reflexes seem a second slower or so than reina's.
I think he will be a very good keeper with a villa/spurs/city team but not a consistent enough performer to be in a premiership and champions league top team.
I could be wrong but i have never been overly impressed with him.

Reganio 2

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Robbie Keane would be a great player for us, and I'm sorry if you disagree, but hey, oppions are like ar*eholes and all that!:P

That's the thing I don't like him, but quite a few people and including you do. Just next time I or someone else say something no matter how much you think/know its wrong don't react the way you did as I thought it was bang out of order. I didn't react like that when ye said Berbatov is a good player but that's a story for another thread

Karmafaerie

Reganio 2 wrote: »

That's the thing I don't like him, but quite a few people and including you do. Just next time I or someone else say something no matter how stupid is don't react the way you did as I thought it was bang out of order. I didn't react like that when ye said Berbatov is a good player but that's a story for another thread

I don't think I responded to you earlier did I (too lazy to check back!:P).

People get mad easily in here cause they automatically assume people are trolling due to the large amounts of trolls in this thread.

Stupid really.

And as for Berba, I've never rated him.
I hate lazy players, and I reckon if he leaves Spurs, and ends up with a srike partner that doesn't work as hard as Keane, he'll be found out.

Melion

Reganio 2 wrote: »

So smartarse's in here next time someone posts something you don't agree with don't all jump on there back and make yourself feel all high and mighty. Like I said IMO I don't want him as he is dodgey some games, would people have thought Morientes would have done nothing for us? I know he had never kicked a ball in the prem.

So come on smartarse's come back with your sarcastic comments instead of having a proper disscusion if you can have one.

So you think we should sign a player who signed for Fiorentina a month ago? You think we should sign a player who hasnt played a game for Hamburg since signing for them 9 months ago?

Reganio 2

I didn't know that he signed for Fiorentina or the other one wasn't getting his game for Hamburg. As I said I have only seen bits and pieces of them and when at youth level not at club level.

Cyrus

well thats not much of a basis to say we should sign them over keane

look with happened with le tallec and sinama

Karmafaerie

Reganio 2 wrote: »

I didn't know that he signed for Fiorentina or the other one wasn't getting his game for Hamburg. As I said I have only seen bits and pieces of them and when at youth level not at club level.

So in your oppinion it's better to sign young, promising players, who you've seen bits of pieces of, than a proven, premiership goal scorer, with a 1/2 goals to games ratio, who scores as many away goals as home goals (which is really, really, rare!), and we don't score away goals!

Not a great argument there man!;)

Melion

Reganio 2 wrote: »

I didn't know that he signed for Fiorentina or the other one wasn't getting his game for Hamburg. As I said I have only seen bits and pieces of them and when at youth level not at club level.

Maybe check up on players before recommending them above one of the premierships best strikers so.

Reganio 2

Who knew anything about Skrtl (sp?) or Agger when we signed them? You have to take risks and sign unknowen's. Like I said I don't like Keane, maybe its all the rubbish we had to watch when he played for Ireland I don't know but I don't like him.

Blackhorse Slim

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Who knew anything about Skrtl (sp?) or Agger when we signed them?

Rafa.

Chardee MacDennis

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Who knew anything about Skrtl (sp?) or Agger when we signed them? You have to take risks and sign unknowen's. Like I said I don't like Keane, maybe its all the rubbish we had to watch when he played for Ireland I don't know but I don't like him.

jesus lads lay off him, if you were this agressive to the real trolls they might pi$$ off and we can spend our time having good conversations with people that obviously care about the club like Reganio....

Boggles

The one critisism of Keane would be his finishing, as for his international career he is on track for scoring 50 goals, at international level that is world class.

Karmafaerie

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Who knew anything about Skrtl (sp?) or Agger when we signed them? You have to take risks and sign unknowen's. Like I said I don't like Keane, maybe its all the rubbish we had to watch when he played for Ireland I don't know but I don't like him.

Agger had just won sports person of the year in Denmark.
He wasn't a complete unknown.
I'd heard of him for a few months before he was linked to us, and I know fu€k all!:P

Boggles wrote: »

The one critisism of Keane would be his finishing, as for his international career he is on track for scoring 50 goals, at international level that is world class.

1/2 is more than a good enough scoring ratio for me.

Handsome Bob

I'm not worried about his finishing as much, he has added that to his game from what i've seen in the last two seasons.

My concern is whether he can adapt into our patient and cautious build up game. Keane is at his best in a very attack orientated formation and that is the philosophy at Spurs. Though Ireland's and Liverpool's tactics are quite different, they still have the cautious feel in both their build up play.

But hell, if £5m + Crouch is the proposed deal, it's worth taking the chance on him. You can't argue with proven PL performers who can also perform against the likes of Man U and Arsenal and give them a handful.

MementoMori

Apparently we will get some cash for the sale of Anthony Le Tallec.

Don't know how much but at least its something.

I think it's due to the a combination of the fact that he was under 24 and that he moved to the team he went on loan to.

Might only be 500k but better than nothing.:)

Edit Update:

After futher searching I saw some talk on other Liverpool forums of a figure of £1m which is better than a kick in the head.

Mr Alan

Villa have rejected a bid from us today for Barry according to their official site.

I'd pull out now, put in 12m-ish bid in August and if they dont take it, tell them to to **** off, buy him next year at 28 for 5m.

spockety

MementoMori wrote: »

Apparently we will get some cash for the sale of Anthony Le Tallec.

Don't know how much but at least its something.

I think it's due to the a combination of the fact that he was under 24 and that he moved to the team he went on loan to.

Might only be 500k but better than nothing.:)

Better than nothing alright, but to put it into perspective it is probably just enough to pay Stevie G for a month.

Pity LeTallec never made it, Houllier urged us all to be excited about him when he arrived.

Handsome Bob

Mr Alan wrote: »

Villa have rejected a bid from us today for Barry according to their official site.

I'd pull out now, put in 12m-ish bid in August and if they dont take it, tell them to to **** off, buy him next year at 28 for 5m.

I second this, let them keep him and destroy their locker-room harmony.