Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2008/2009

Mr Alan

eZe^ wrote: »

Chelsea bid around 55 million euro for him and it got rejected... They matched his buyout clause, but he refused to leave.

"supposedly";)

Tusky, his agent could just as easily being refering to this?:)

Liverpool FC might not have won the Champions League this season but will go into next season ranked Europe’s number one team.

The Merseyside club have topped UEFA’s ranking after their performances in the competition during the past five seasons.

http://www.thesoccerblog.org/europe/man-united-won-the-champions-league-but-liverpool-remain-the-top-dogs-in-europe/

Tusky

"I have been a Liverpool fan for as long as I can remember and it would be a dream to play there. I watched the Champions League final and celebrated every goal as if it was for Independiente."- Sergio Aguero

Heh - I just dont think its worth getting our hopes up for. I dont think we can afford him and I dont think his agent was talking about us. I dont think theres any chance of him coming here unfortunately.

tonc76

After reading that I get the impression that he's talking about us as on the Continent we are thought to be the best side in Europe

Here's hoping

rosboy

Tusky wrote: »

"I have been a Liverpool fan for as long as I can remember and it would be a dream to play there. I watched the Champions League final and celebrated every goal as if it was for Independiente."- Sergio Aguero

Heh - I just dont think its worth getting our hopes up for. I dont think we can afford him and I dont think his agent was talking about us. I dont think theres any chance of him coming here unfortunately.

Didn't he say that back in 2006? I was reading up on him earlier, and saw that we were in for him back then, but he ended up going to Athletico......even though he wanted to go to Liverpool. Think the fee was about €20 million. What a sickener:mad:

leninbenjamin

rosboy wrote: »

Didn't he say that back in 2006? I was reading up on him earlier, and saw that we were in for him back then, but he ended up going to Athletico......even though he wanted to go to Liverpool. Think the fee was about €20 million. What a sickener:mad:

an awful lot of clubs were in for him, but were dawdling over what was a lot of money for someone so young. Seems from reading up on him that Atletico went in for him, met the asking price and had the deal sewn up before the rest could even respond. one old article i read had Bayern as the favourites to sign him at one stage... strange how he ended up with atletico really looking at it.

The Rooster

Tusky wrote: »

I seriously doubt we will see Skrtel at right back this season & Carragher only played there 3 times last season.

Last season is irrelevant as there was never a time when all of Carragher, Agger and Skrtel were available. There will definitely be games when all 3 play this season. You'd think that'd mean either 3 centre backs or Carra at right back, but Saturday showed that Skrtel may also be an option at right back.

PHB

The Aguero thing is interesting, but considering Rafas comments, do you really think Liverpool can spunk 30ish-35 million pounds on one player?

eZe^

PHB wrote: »

The Aguero thing is interesting, but considering Rafas comments, do you really think Liverpool can spunk 30ish-35 million pounds on one player?

Its closer to 44 million pounds actually.

PHB

exactly
Although realistically only Chelsea can afford his buy out clause.

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

The Aguero thing is interesting, but considering Rafas comments, do you really think Liverpool can spunk 30ish-35 million pounds on one player?

Well it all depends on how much he has been given to spend. We should raise 40m from player sales.

Dossena - 7
Degen - free
Barry - 18
Cavalieri - 3
Saric - 1

That means we have 11m left over from player sales before any budget has been spent. If Rafa was given a budget of 20m, he would have 31m left to spend. Nobody really knows if he actually has ANY money to spend apart from player sales though.

Even if we could afford him, dont think it will happen.

leninbenjamin

Tusky wrote: »

Well it all depends on how much he has been given to spend. We should raise 40m from player sales.

Dossena - 7
Degen - free
Barry - 18
Cavalieri - 3
Saric - 1

That means we have 11m left over from player sales before any budget has been spent. If Rafa was given a budget of 20m, he would have 31m left to spend.

I still dont think it will happen.

unlikely, but definitely possible from the figures. I think Rafa should be looking to spend that on two players though at least, one for a second striker and another wideman/wingforward, preferably the right side imo. Any word since on the mooted Luis Suarez interest?

Thanx 4 The Fish

Not that I have heard, have been scanning for a bit and that one has not resurfaced.

IrishMike

Jermaine Pennant has been told he can leave Liverpool and Blackburn are ready to bid £3m for the winger. (The People)

Shocking price to be honest

Vokes

Tusky wrote: »

Well it all depends on how much he has been given to spend. We should raise 40m from player sales.

Dossena - 7
Degen - free
Barry - 18
Cavalieri - 3
Saric - 1

That means we have 11m left over from player sales before any budget has been spent. If Rafa was given a budget of 20m, he would have 31m left to spend. Nobody really knows if he actually has ANY money to spend apart from player sales though.

Even if we could afford him, dont think it will happen.

Do we definitely know he will get to spend the money made on transfer sales? Because that isn't always the case every year at any club.

DeadSkin

From the BBC

Liverpool manager Rafa Benitez's hopes of signing Aston Villa midfielder Gareth Barry and Spurs striker Robbie Keane have suffered a setback with the news that midfielder Xabi Alonso looks to set to stay on Merseyside. (Various)

How can both transfers be affected by the sale of Alonso?

IrishMike

Who cares, we keep Alonso.
Nice one!
He would be as good as a new signing if he regained his form

DeadSkin

I'm with ya on that Mike, but would like to see Robbie at Anfield, just can't see how Alonso not leaving would affect Robbie not coming.

mike65

Its wont affect a bid for Keane if other sales are made (but thats the issue isn't it? unless G&H are willing to fund one major buy, which frankly isn't asking too much even in these straightened times).

Mike.

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

The Aguero thing is interesting, but considering Rafas comments, do you really think Liverpool can spunk 30ish-35 million pounds on one player?

Not sure, no one knows how much we have to spend.

Perhaps Alonso could be used as part of the deal meaning maybe 20m-ish and xabi.

Who knows.

PHB

But that would make little to no sense. As you'd sell Alonso, but not be able to use the cash to buy a replacement, creating a weakness in the squad.

The only way an Aguero move makes sense is if Rafa has been bull****ting about how much cash you actually have, but considering the situation and Rafa's unwillingness to pay an extra 2 million for Barry, I think that's unlikely.

spockety

PHB wrote: »

But that would make little to no sense. As you'd sell Alonso, but not be able to use the cash to buy a replacement, creating a weakness in the squad.

The only way an Aguero move makes sense is if Rafa has been bull****ting about how much cash you actually have, but considering the situation and Rafa's unwillingness to pay an extra 2 million for Barry, I think that's unlikely.

Not if Rafa doesn't think Barry is worth a penny more than 14m.

There is a bigger picture. If Liverpool get bent over in the Barry transfer, they'll get bent over in more transfers in the future, which is not a position Rafa would like to be in I'm sure.

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

But that would make little to no sense. As you'd sell Alonso, but not be able to use the cash to buy a replacement, creating a weakness in the squad.

I mean if Gareth Barry is coming in.

The most reputable source of Liverpool stories (The Echo) has said from the outset that the Alonso/Barry deals were not dependant on eachother.

I'm not saying thats definately the case, but its certainly a possibility.

mike65

spockety wrote: »

Not if Rafa doesn't think Barry is worth a penny more than 14m.

There is a bigger picture. If Liverpool get bent over in the Barry transfer, they'll get bent over in more transfers in the future, which is not a position Rafa would like to be in I'm sure.

+1 That is the biggest potential fallout from a Barry buy. Liverpool as a soft touch not to mention the mad inflation for English players generally. Rafa should walk away and put in an offer early next year.

Mike.

PHB

spockety wrote: »

There is a bigger picture. If Liverpool get bent over in the Barry transfer, they'll get bent over in more transfers in the future, which is not a position Rafa would like to be in I'm sure.

If you want to buy players from clubs trying to beat you, you are going to have to get 'bent over'.

United get bent over in pretty much every single deal they do, bar the few quiet gems, ala Vidic or Evra, but most deals, United vastly overpay for players. But that's what you have to do to get the players you want from clubs that don't want to sell and know they can milk you.

Rafa used to think like you do. But there's been evidence to show he's shifted his attitude a bit, with Torres being a pretty significant purchase and Babel being expensive for a kid.

Principle is fine, but it'll result you in you missing out on top players earlier on, ala Walcott or Daniel Alves.

IrishMike

PHB wrote: »

But that would make little to no sense. As you'd sell Alonso, but not be able to use the cash to buy a replacement, creating a weakness in the squad.

The only way an Aguero move makes sense is if Rafa has been bull****ting about how much cash you actually have, but considering the situation and Rafa's unwillingness to pay an extra 2 million for Barry, I think that's unlikely.

Not really true in fairness.
If Rafa sees the future as something like this

---

Reina
Degan-Agger-Carragher-Dossena
---Mascherano-Gerrard
Kuyt----Aguerro----Babel

---

Torres

Pull Gerrard back into Alonsos old role and play Aguerro in the hole behind Torres.
Would be just as formidable an attack in my opinion

scruff321

PHB wrote: »

If you want to buy players from clubs trying to beat you, you are going to have to get 'bent over'.

United get bent over in pretty much every single deal they do, bar the few quiet gems, ala Vidic or Evra, but most deals, United vastly overpay for players. But that's what you have to do to get the players you want from clubs that don't want to sell and know they can milk you.

Rafa used to think like you do. But there's been evidence to show he's shifted his attitude a bit, with Torres being a pretty significant purchase and Babel being expensive for a kid.

Principle is fine, but it'll result you in you missing out on top players earlier on, ala Walcott or Daniel Alves.

yeah think PHB is spot on,but the fact of the matter is manu can afford to be ripped off liverpool cant,i also agree with mike wait til january and then force villas hand get barry for a fraction of the price

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

If you want to buy players from clubs trying to beat you, you are going to have to get 'bent over'.

Rafa used to think like you do. But there's been evidence to show he's shifted his attitude a bit, with Torres being a pretty significant purchase and Babel being expensive for a kid.

Principle is fine, but it'll result you in you missing out on top players earlier on, ala Walcott or Daniel Alves.

I agree with this, and think that Rafa has leart his lesson somewhat in knowing that he will have to overpay sometimes.

My problem, and Rafas too i think, is that 15m for Barry IS overpaying.

The situation with other English midfielders signed by Utd isnt really comparable due to age/potential improvement/CL experience.

15M for Barry with Finnan is an excellent deal for Villa.

leninbenjamin

IrishMike wrote: »

Not really true in fairness.
If Rafa sees the future as something like this

---

Reina
Degan-Agger-Carragher-Dossena
---Mascherano-Gerrard
Kuyt----Aguerro----Babel

---

Torres

Pull Gerrard back into Alonsos old role and play Aguerro in the hole behind Torres.
Would be just as formidable an attack in my opinion

except that Gerrard is **** when he plays deeper roles. Rafa tried this before and it didn't work. Gerrard isn't disciplined enough so imo this system is off the agenda.

IrishMike

PHB wrote: »

If you want to buy players from clubs trying to beat you, you are going to have to get 'bent over'.

United get bent over in pretty much every single deal they do, bar the few quiet gems, ala Vidic or Evra, but most deals, United vastly overpay for players. But that's what you have to do to get the players you want from clubs that don't want to sell and know they can milk you.

Very true, buying established premiership players is very very costly.
Will never forget the curtis davis to Arsenal farce where they wanted something
like £18m for an average defender.
Thing is if you have a good scouting network which Liverpool have, they are
players overseas who have all the attributes needed to adapt quickly
and more than do a job.
If it was my choice i would offer Alonso + 15m for Aguerro.
Sign someone on a free transfer like Sorin to provide cover for our midfield
and then buy an up and coming player like Mounito to further boost our strength
in depth.

---

Reina/Cavalieri

-Finnan/Degan-Carragher/Hobbs-Skrtel/Agger-Arbeloa/Dossena

---

Mascherano/Plessis-Sorin/Lucas/Moutinho

Kuyt/Gerrard--Gerrard/Aguerro--Babel/Benayoun

---

Torres/Voronin/Bent

Sorin = Free
Aguerro = 15m + Alonso
Bent = 10m
Moutinho = 10m

Outstanding team in my opinion with strength in depth in every position.
Even if Aguerro + Bent cost 30m combined including Alonso we
should have the money to do it.

Out
Riise - 4
Crouch - 11
Guthrie - 2
Le Talic(sp) - 1
Alonso - 15
Finnan - 1.5
Carson - 5
Itandje - 1
Pennant - 5
=45.5m

In
Dossena - 6.8
Degen - free
Mounito - 10
Bent - 10
Cavalieri - 3
Sorin - free
Aguerro - 30m
=59.8m

Surely Rafa was given 15m to spend in his transfer kitty for the summer?

colly10

IrishMike wrote: »

Outstanding team in my opinion with strength in depth in every position.
Even if Aguerro + Bent cost 30m combined including Alonso we
should have the money to do it.

We'd need Alonso + 35-40m just to get Aguerro, I wouldn't see it as being a realistic option, id be shocked if we had that kind of money to spend on one player

Dont be at yourself

I'd love to see Aguero come in, but I really do think he's out of our price-range. If we bought him, it would be at the expense of shoring up a couple of other problem positions, and it would just be a sideways step.

I think Barry and Keane would vastly improve the side, and if we can add one more attacker in the 10-20 million pound bracket, I'd be absolutely delighted.

Hobart

PHB wrote: »

The only way an Aguero move makes sense is if Rafa has been bull****ting about how much cash you actually have, but considering the situation and Rafa's unwillingness to pay an extra 2 million for Barry, I think that's unlikely.

How much cash is in the kitty? Has he given a figure pubically?

spockety

PHB wrote: »

If you want to buy players from clubs trying to beat you, you are going to have to get 'bent over'.

United get bent over in pretty much every single deal they do, bar the few quiet gems, ala Vidic or Evra, but most deals, United vastly overpay for players. But that's what you have to do to get the players you want from clubs that don't want to sell and know they can milk you.

Rafa used to think like you do. But there's been evidence to show he's shifted his attitude a bit, with Torres being a pretty significant purchase and Babel being expensive for a kid.

Principle is fine, but it'll result you in you missing out on top players earlier on, ala Walcott or Daniel Alves.

It's not necessarily about principle, but about the fact that you may contribute to your own downfall in the transfer market by paying beyond what you want to or realistically can for players.

There are some teams for which ludicrous transfer fees are the arena in which they operate. Man Utd., Chelsea, Real Madrid, Barcelona. They pay crazy money, and when the next transfer window comes around, they have to pay crazy money again because everyone knows they will. Luckily for those clubs, they are in a financial position which allows them to do this.

Liverpool are not. Unless we are having a very large piece of wool pulled over our eyes.

It is far more dangerous for Liverpool to pay over the odds for a player like Gareth Barry, than it is for United to pay seemingly over the odds amounts for the likes of Carrick or Hargreaves, etc.

The realities of the transfer market are not the same for all teams, no matter their league position, and to think otherwise is to simplify it too much.

PHB

Pull Gerrard back into Alonsos old role and play Aguerro in the hole behind Torres.
Would be just as formidable an attack in my opinion

I'd rather avoid the argument of why Gerrard isn't actually a good central midfielder for a team, but point out that Rafa clearly sees Gerrards role not as a central midfielder. He's tried playing him on the right, that worked great but Gerrard didn't like it, and he's now playing him just behind the striker, which is workign great too.

It'd be very very surprising if Gerrard returned to his old position.

---

Can't see Aguero going for that, but I'd be utterly shocked if Moutinho went for that.

---

The situation with other English midfielders signed by Utd isnt really comparable due to age/potential improvement/CL experience.

But as you know the skill of a player isn't a huge factor in transfer prices. Ultimately, whether or not Barry can progress a lot or not like Carrick is irrelevant, Villa see him as an integral part of their plans just like Carrick did.
15 million + Finnan is a fair price for both teams, I'd agree. But Villa don't want a fair price, they want to catch you, and in order for that to happen, you have to get screwed over a little.

United are in a very similar transfer budget situation to United (if anybody wants to debate that start a new thread), and have been over the previous years. YOu have to accept that yes, you are paying over the odds for the player, but if you're judgement is right, and he will add to the team, then it's worth it. United sold Van Nist and bought Carrick. The rest of the team improved. They won the league.

If Barry is the right player for Liverpool [not saying I agree nor disagree with that] you just suck it up and pay over the odds, and trust your judgement will mean that even though individually he isn't worth 18 million, in terms of his addition to the team, it'll pay off in the long run.
If Barry isn't the player who can do that, then why the **** would you buy him anyway.

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

But Villa don't want a fair price, they want to catch you, and in order for that to happen, you have to get screwed over a little

this is the point i think a lot of the Villa fans and now yourself are missing, i think that we are getting screwed over paying 15m and Finnan.

There is screwed over, and then there is REAALLLLLYYYYY screwed over. 18m is the later. And it remains to be seen if Rafa is willing to allow that to happen.

IrishMike

Cant see it myself unless Rafa sees Barry as being an integral part of the team going forward.
Will that happen if Alonso decides he doesnt want to move, who knows.
Personally i think if we pay roughly 40m for Barry and Keane then its shocking shocking business.
Thats at least 10m more than we should be willing to pay and there are much cheaper
options out there that would mean we would not be raped in the transfer market.

Mr Alan

IrishMike wrote: »

Personally i think if we pay roughly 40m for Barry and Keane then its shocking shocking business.
Thats at least 10m more than we should be willing to pay and there are much cheaper
options out there that would mean we would not be raped in the transfer market.

can you fill us in on these players please? preferably proven in that PL, cause that seems to be the avenue Rafa is going down to complete our push for the title.

IrishMike

Much cheaper than Barry.... there are dozens of players outside of the PL.
Barry had 18 good months with Villa, up until that point he was a slightly above average player for a mid table club.
He is not exactly the dogs nuts that he is being made out to be.
Better alernatives include Toulan, Mounito, Van Der Vaart, Nigel de Jong, Jonathan De Guzman, Diego etc
All would be much cheaper than Barry with the exception perhaps of Van Der Vaart but in fairness thats because he is a much better player.

Dont be at yourself

So that's 2 players - central midfielder and a forward - who are proven in the PL for a combined 40 million?

Lassana Diarra, Bentley, Krankjaer, Muntari, Arteta, Cahill, SWP, Santa Cruz, Benny McCarthy, Martins, Agbonlahor should each come in at around 15 million each, and would offer better value than Barry at 20 million, and arguably Keane at 20 million.

That's just the Premiership. There are players abroad who have the strength, presence and quickness of mind to adapt to the league - Lucas Podolski would be available for less than 20 million - he's strong, aggressive, young, has experience playing for a top European team, as well as a fantastic scoring record on the biggest stage of all, the World Cup. Keane's only significant advantage over him is his PL experience, and that's not worth another 5-10 million euro.

There is merit to the argument that we need PL experience to give us that extra something towards a title tilt, but lets not forget that this time 12 months ago Fernando Torres had nil Premiership experience, had not produced on the big stage and many people on here were welcoming his signing with trepidation.

colly10

Mr Alan wrote: »

can you fill us in on these players please? preferably proven in that PL, cause that seems to be the avenue Rafa is going down to complete our push for the title.

We don't necessarily need a player proven in the prem, Torres, Babel, Alonso, Skrtel, Agger etc wern't and they turned out fine. I think the price tag on many English players is way over the top

IrishMike

This time 2 years ago Mascherano had premiership experience and couldnt make the West Ham bench.
Everything needs to be taken into perspective.
Barry is far far too expensive for what we are getting, plus he is 28.
He would be a good player for Liverpool no on is denying that.
But for 18m we could buy a younger and better player in the same position.

Cyrus

IrishMike wrote: »

This time 2 years ago Mascherano had premiership experience and couldnt make the West Ham bench.
Everything needs to be taken into perspective.
Barry is far far too expensive for what we are getting, plus he is 28.
He would be a good player for Liverpool no on is denying that.
But for 18m we could buy a younger and better player in the same position.

like who?

IrishMike

Cyrus wrote: »

like who?

For crying out loud trying reading 2 or 3 posts back :rolleyes:

Mr Alan

IrishMike wrote: »

Toulan, Mounito, Van Der Vaart, Nigel de Jong, Jonathan De Guzman, Diego etc
All would be much cheaper than Barry with the exception perhaps of Van Der Vaart but in fairness thats because he is a much better player.

Do you watch all these players much? from my understanding (i dont watch them much) Diego is much more attacking than Barry and will probably cost at least 20m. van Der vaart,much more attacking, more than 20m, no PL experience, moutinho-around 20m no PL experience, and i would think deGuzman and DeJong-not good enough-but granted i havent seen them much.

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

So that's 2 players - central midfielder and a forward - who are proven in the PL for a combined 40 million?

Lassana Diarranot as good as barry, similar enough money, Bentley18m bid from Villa/Spurs already been rejected supposedly, we may get him for around that figure, but he is a winger?, Krankjaermore a winger,cost at LEAST 15m, Muntarinot as good as barry, Artetachances of Everton selling their best player to us? rumours he wants to go to spain anyway, Cahillagain,Everton wont wanna sell, SWPout and out winger, Santa Cruzone season wonder?perhaps-cost about 15m, i'd prefer keane for the extra 5, Benny McCarthystruggles for blackburn,not near good enough anymore, Martinscost about 15-20, not as good as keane, Agbonlahorconsidering prices Villa looking for with Barry, i'd imagine they'd want at least 25m for Agbonlahor, who probably would never want to leave Villa anyway should each come in at around 15 million each, and would offer better value than Barry at 20 million, and arguably Keane at 20 million.

barry at 15m-18m and Keane at 20m are a lot better options than all of the above in my opinion.

IrishMike

Mr Alan wrote: »

Do you watch all these players much? from my understanding (i dont watch them much) Diego is much more attacking than Barry and will probably cost at least 20m. van Der vaart,much more attacking, more than 20m, no PL experience, moutinho-around 20m no PL experience, and i would think deGuzman and DeJong-not good enough-but granted i havent seen them much.

Diego and Van Der Vaart are much more complete players than Barry.
Mounitho will not be 20m no chance.
He is an outstanding prospect and is much MUCH younger than Barry.
Premiership experience is a trivial point at this stage, Torres didnt play
in the premiership, would you not sign him because of that?

barry at 15m-18m and Keane at 20m are a lot better options than all of the above in my opinion.

Thats your opinion but i for one definitely dont agree.

Cyrus

IrishMike wrote: »

For crying out loud trying reading 2 or 3 posts back :rolleyes:

Better alernatives include Toulan, Mounito, Van Der Vaart, Nigel de Jong, Jonathan De Guzman, Diego etc

I was asking because you havent answered the qn, never heard of the first 2. Van der Vaart is a forward, De Jong looks a decent player, De Guzman is still playing in holland Kuyt used to get 30 goals a season there and Diego while being a lovely player is a no.10 not a central midfielder and will cost £20m+.

So you can keep your roll eyes.

Also Rafa Benitez obviously thinks Barry is better value and a better bet than de jong (if he is available) or those 2 other lads you have misspelt at the start.

Getting annoyed with the Fm2008 armchair managers at this stage

oobydooby

IrishMike wrote: »

Barry is far far too expensive for what we are getting, plus he is 28.

No doubt he's expensive, nobody's arguing that. However 28 to me says he's in his prime. Maybe he's not a good investment money-wise but if we want players for the here and now, we pay for them. Rafa's already got plenty of potential starlets in the reserves from what I hear.

Rafa knows he probably has to win the title this year to win over the owners and some of the Rafa-sceptics (they haven't gone away you know).

Mr Alan

colly10 wrote: »

We don't necessarily need a player proven in the prem, Torres, Babel, Alonso, Skrtel, Agger etc wern't and they turned out fine. I think the price tag on many English players is way over the top

really?
Torres-amazing
Babel-not settled in the PL, needs a big improvement over the next 2 years.
Alonso-great first year, not good enough since.
Agger/Skrtel-good players,easier for defenders to settle.

If all these mid-range buys we've been making are good enough, why havent we won the title.

IMO Its time to bring in proven PL players or else outstanding world talents. Our budget rules out the "outstanding" talents in world football imo.

Mr Alan

IrishMike wrote: »

Thats your opinion but i for one definitely dont agree.

its alright! at least Rafa does

citing Torres as an example of players settling is not fair on anyone, the lad is outstanding, he is the exception, most certainly not the norm.

Dont be at yourself

barry at 15m-18m and Keane at 20m are a lot better options than all of the above in my opinion.

I'm very much on the fence with Keane, and I think he could actually be a great signing for us. 20 million is a lot for a journey-man striker though, and McCarthy, Santa Cruz, Martins, Podolski, Huntelaar, Mario Gomez, Pandev and plenty more talented, young strikers could be on the move this summer, and for a similar or lesser figure than Keane. As such, I'd loathe to think that we spunk 20 million on him just because he has Premiership experience.

With every rejected bid, my apathy for Gareth Barry slowly turns to antipathy. When the rumours first emerged - of swapping Carson, Riise and a couple of million - I was a little sceptical, but 'In Rafa We Trust', and all that.

As time as progressed, his price has gone up and up and up, and I can't be the only one to wonder why? Fair enough, he's a good, solid, consistent midfielder. We already have one of them though, Xabi Alonso. Gareth Barry isn't the missing piece of the jigsaw, he isn't going to just slot in and make the team click all over the pitch. He isn't going to score 15 goals, or get 20 assists. He's going to do exactly what Xabi Alonso did (when he was having '2 terrible seasons' zzzz), but to a slightly better or worse degree. Is that worth 20 million to Liverpool? Is it fcuk.

Some Liverpool fans have spent the last few weeks watching in bewilderment as Barry's transfer fee rises. Others have convinced themselves that he is a far better player than his previous form would suggest.