Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2008/2009

Cyrus

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I'm very much on the fence with Keane, and I think he could actually be a great signing for us. 20 million is a lot for a journey-man striker though, and McCarthy, Santa Cruz, Martins, Podolski, Huntelaar, Mario Gomez, Pandev and plenty more talented, young strikers could be on the move this summer, and for a similar or lesser figure than Keane. As such, I'd loathe to think that we spunk 20 million on him just because he has Premiership experience.

With every rejected bid, my apathy for Gareth Barry slowly turns to antipathy. When the rumours first emerged - of swapping Carson, Riise and a couple of million - I was a little sceptical, but 'In Rafa We Trust', and all that.

As time as progressed, his price has gone up and up and up, and I can't be the only one to wonder why? Fair enough, he's a good, solid, consistent midfielder. We already have one of them though, Xabi Alonso. Gareth Barry isn't the missing piece of the jigsaw, he isn't going to just slot in and make the team click all over the pitch. He isn't going to score 15 goals, or get 20 assists. He's going to do exactly what Xabi Alonso did (when he was having '2 terrible seasons' zzzz), but to a slightly better or worse degree. Is that worth 20 million to Liverpool? Is it fcuk.

Some Liverpool fans have spent the last few weeks watching in bewilderment as Barry's transfer fee rises. Others have convinced themselves that he is a far better player than his previous form would suggest.

jesus what midfielder (ronaldo or gerrard aside) is going to get you 15 goals or 20 assists, if barry gets as many goals and assists as he has over the last 3 years itll be fine

and keane is no journey man, he is one of the EPL top strikers, dean windass is a journey man :pac:

Also Benni McCarthy had one good season and now cant make the bench and he is nearly 30 and i didnt see anyone looking for us to sign santa cruz last year

colly10

IrishMike wrote: »

This time 2 years ago Mascherano had premiership experience and couldnt make the West Ham bench.
Everything needs to be taken into perspective.
Barry is far far too expensive for what we are getting, plus he is 28.
He would be a good player for Liverpool no on is denying that.
But for 18m we could buy a younger and better player in the same position.

The Mascherano situation was a strange one there, they rarely started Tevez either even though every time he got on he seemed to be their most influencial player. +1 on Barry's value, being honest I can't name a player for the same price that will do the same job but im sure that the scouts would have little problem finding one

Mr Alan

colly10 wrote: »

being honest I can't name a player for the same price that will do the same job but im sure that the scouts would have little problem finding one

obviously they are if its Barry that we are in for.

colly10

Mr Alan wrote: »

If all these mid-range buys we've been making are good enough, why havent we won the title.

Of all of these players the only one which we have spent big money on was Torres who has been exceptional in the prem. If you we to buy another striker for 20 - 25m elsewhere I would expect them to perform better than the players that i've listed that cost half it

colly10

Mr Alan wrote: »

obviously they are if its Barry that we are in for.

We havn't bought yet, the higer they drive that price the easier it will be to get someone elsewhere with the quality

IrishMike

Cyrus wrote: »

I was asking because you havent answered the qn

Yes i most certainly did answer the question.

never heard of the first 2.

Toulalan took over Vieras role in the French midfield.
Plays central midfield for Lyon, excellent player who looks the real deal every
time i saw him for France/CL except for the Dutch match where he was crap.

Moutinho portugese midfielder who plays for Sporting.
Can play in central midfield, behind the strikers or on the right.
Quality player who was linked to united last summer.

Van der Vaart is a forward

He is an attacking midfielder but point taken, he is more a gerrard than an Alonso.

De Guzman is still playing in holland Kuyt used to get 30 goals a season

Right, the fact that he is played in Holland means he is not a good player.
Good job Fergie didnt think the same about RVN...

Diego while being a lovely player is a no.10 not a central midfielder and will cost £20m+.

He is the midfielder playmaker for Bremen alongside Frings.

So you can keep your roll eyes.

Also Rafa Benitez obviously thinks Barry is better value and a better bet than de jong (if he is available) or those 2 other lads you have misspelt at the start.

Getting annoyed with the Fm2008 armchair managers at this stage

Super, the fact that this is a transfer rumours and discussion thread means
that we cannot discuss who we would prefer to be signed because of anal
comments like these?
If you dont like the posts in the thread, dont read them.
Its a pretty simple solution.
And i dont play fantasty manager :rolleyes:

Reganio 2

I like the way you throw stats at Keane to make him sound good, but even when the stats are thrown at you about Barry and how consistent he has been over the past 3 years you just ignore it.

Dont be at yourself

Scoring stats are very relevant to a striker though, aren't they?

Barry may be consistent - but is he consistently great? 18-20 million is a huge amount of money to spend on a player who offers merely consistency. Xabi Alonso, for all his detractors, is about a solid a player as you can get in the deep-lying playmaking/tempo-setting role that Barry would presumably be asked to fill.

I just don't think that Barry is going to have the impact on the team that would justify his transfer fee. In a 12 million player+cash deal I felt it was a worthwhile risk. At 15 million I had doubts. At 18 million+, it's ridiculous!

missingtime

Atletico Madrid have stated they do not want to sell forward and reported Manchester United target Sergio Aguero and that there has been no offer made by any Premier League team. (1215 BST, BBC Sport)

Liverpool manager Rafa Benitez's hopes of signing Aston Villa midfielder Gareth Barry and Spurs striker Robbie Keane have suffered a setback with the news that midfielder Xabi Alonso looks set to stay on Merseyside. (Various)

...from the bbc updates site:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/gossip_and_transfers/default.stm

IrishMike

Reganio 2 wrote: »

I like the way you throw stats at Keane to make him sound good, but even when the stats are thrown at you about Barry and how consistent he has been over the past 3 years you just ignore it.

Barrys stats - last 3 seasons
108 appearances for Villa.
In that time he scored 20 goals and got 18 assists.
Passing accuracy last season 76% with 100 tackles made

Carrick stats - last 3 seasons
99 appearances for United/Spurs
In that time he scored 7 goals and got 12 assists.
Passing accuracy last season 83% with 34 tackles made

Alonso stats - last 3 seasons
86 appearances for Liverpool
In that time he scored 9 goals and got 12 assists.
Passing accuracy last season 81% with 72 tackles made

Fabregas passing accuracy last season was 81% with 88 tackles.
When looked at in this light then Alonso doesnt exacly look as crap as everyone makes out.




*assists only from open play to make comparison fair

Mr Alan

IrishMike wrote: »

Barrys stats - last 3 seasons
108 appearances for Villa.
In that time he scored 20 goals and got 18 assists.
Passing accuracy last season 76% with 100 tackles made

Carrick stats - last 3 seasons
99 appearances for United/Spurs
In that time he scored 7 goals and got 12 assists.
Passing accuracy last season 83% with 34 tackles made

Alonso stats - last 3 seasons
86 appearances for Liverpool
In that time he scored 9 goals and got 12 assists.
Passing accuracy last season 81% with 72 tackles made

Fabregas passing accuracy last season was 81% with 88 tackles.
When looked at in this light then Alonso doesnt exacly look as crap as everyone makes out.




*assists only from open play to make comparison fair

were you not arguing against Barry?

his stats are far superior to the rest of them for the last three years.

IrishMike

Alonso only played 15 games last season which skews his assists/goals.
Stats show you lots about a player but there is a lot more than good stats required for
me to believe 18m is a fair price for Garreth Barry.
A 25 yr old Alonso who is a better player than Barry was bought for 12m.
Im not saying Barry is not a good player im sayin the price is extorsion and we shouldnt pay it

Also 76% is an average passing success rate for a central midfielder.
Alonso had a "poor" season and still managed 81%
Gerrard whose passing accuracy people constantly complain about still
got 78% last season.

Mr Alan

ok, well we already deciphered earlier in the thread, that top clubs have to overpay for players.

imo, bar a miracle istanbul style from Rafa, we'll need to do the same if we want to compete for the title within the next 12-24mths.

Dont be at yourself

were you not arguing against Barry?

his stats are far superior to the rest of them for the last three years.

Come off it! Alonso bests Barry on passing, and game-for-game there's nothing between them in terms of tackling. Alonso lags behind on goals and assists, but they are not his responsibility for Liverpool, as he plays in a much deeper role than Barry.

All the stats are close, despite Alonso struggling with injuries and changing formations and responsibilities. And yet, some Liverpool fans slate Alonso for having 2-3 poor seasons, and hold up Barry as a major step in the right direction.

Dont be at yourself

ok, well we already deciphered earlier in the thread, that top clubs have to overpay for players.

We have to over-pay, in so far as pay more money then a player is worth to the selling club.

We shouldn't over-pay, in so far as pay more money then a player is worth to the buying club (ie. us).

Seriously, where do we draw the line? If Villa demand 25 million, do we just shrug and pay up?

During Houllier's reign, we overpaid on players all the time. In the end, we were buying stiffs likes Diouf and Cisse for 15 million, when realistically they were worth about half of that.

Mr Alan

Barry was in the PL team of the season last year afaik and should improve playing with the likes of Mascherano,Torres,Babel,Gerrard. He is a major step up on Alonso tbh.

Simple fact for me is that i think Gareth Barry could make a difference in games we have drawn and lost this year, be it with consistancy, delivery from a dead ball, his excellent play with Gerrard, or the fact that he may be more "up for it" than Alonso.

I love Alonso and will be sad to see him go, but Barry is a step up imo. Alonso is just potential that never quite totally fulfilled itself.

In a perfect situation, we'd keep em both competing for the same place.

IrishMike

Mr Alan wrote: »

ok, well we already deciphered earlier in the thread, that top clubs have to overpay for players.

imo, bar a miracle istanbul style from Rafa, we'll need to do the same if we want to compete for the title within the next 12-24mths.

No top clubs dont always overpay for players.
When is the last time Arsenal overpaid for a player?
If someone is holding you to ransom over a player then tell them no thanks and
move on, Garreth Barry is not a huge improvement on Alonso so why are
we pushing the boat out so hard to get him?

Mr Alan

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Seriously, where do we draw the line? If Villa demand 25 million, do we just shrug and pay up?

No, i'd draw the line at 17m and Finnan personally.

But watever Rafa decides, I'll wait to pass judgement until the end of the season.

IrishMike

Mr Alan wrote: »

Barry was in the PL team of the season last year afaik and should improve playing with the likes of Mascherano,Torres,Babel,Gerrard. He is a major step up on Alonso tbh.

Simple fact for me is that i think Gareth Barry could make a difference in games we have drawn and lost this year, be it with consistancy, delivery from a dead ball, his excellent play with Gerrard, or the fact that he may be more "up for it" than Alonso.

I love Alonso and will be sad to see him go, but Barry is a step up imo. Alonso is just potential that never quite totally fulfilled itself.

In a perfect situation, we'd keep em both competing for the same place.

A big step up in what way Al?
His passing accuracy is a sizeable amount lower.
He is not going to get the same level of assists at Liverpool due to the fact
that our system will not allow him as much licence to get forward.
He will also not get as many tackles in as Mascherano is the king in that area.
So we are basically buying him to take corner kicks and free kicks from what i can see

Mr Alan

IrishMike wrote: »

No top clubs dont always overpay for players.
When is the last time Arsenal overpaid for a player?
If someone is holding you to ransom over a player then tell them no thanks and
move on, Garreth Barry is not a huge improvement on Alonso so why are
we pushing the boat out so hard to get him?

didnt they just pay 12m-15m for Nasri?

Arsenal do overpay, but not near like the rest of the clubs, they are the exception rather than the rule, they are helped by fans who seem to be eternally patient with the manager and the fact that the manager has been implementing a different structure at the club for the last 10 years or so.

also worth noting, that have won **** all in the last few years and are losing some of their best players who dont seem overly enamoured with this "youthful" approach.

IrishMike wrote: »

A big step up in what way Al?

a step up that he regularly performs excellently in the PL. I also think that he will be afforded loads of opportunity to get forward with Mascherano always being there to hold things together at the back. A lot of Alonsos reluctance to get forward more, is down to himself rather than Rafa imo, Alonso always wanted to perform almost like a sweeper. Barry wont.

add in the set pieces as a bonus:D

Daemonic

Stats Schmats. Rafa obviously wants Barry in the team because he thinks he will improve the team. Lots of players have improved teams much beyond what could have been expected when they signed.
I for one was not overly excited when Gary McAllister signed for us but he made the team tick for a couple of seasons.
I agree that anything over 15m is bend over and lube up time, but I'm not in charge of the purse strings and if Rafa thinks he'll make the difference it's good enough for me.

Dont be at yourself

Barry was in the PL team of the season last year afaik and should improve playing with the likes of Mascherano,Torres,Babel,Gerrard. He is a major step up on Alonso tbh.

Did Bellamy or Pennant improve when playing alongside better players? Not really - they were still obviously short of the class needed. Barry may be different, but he's done little to show it. He has no Champions League experience, and he has only had cameos against sub-standard opposition at international level. The jury is very much out on him - and that's why the exorbitant price-tag is getting people's backs up.

I really don't know how you can honestly describe Gareth Barry as a major step up on Xabi Alonso. Consider the system that Liverpool play, the challenge of continental football, the undoubted talent of Alonso and then tell me that - honestly, hand on heart - Gareth Barry is a major step up on Xabi Alonso for Liverpool.

Simple fact for me is that i think Gareth Barry could make a difference in games we have drawn and lost this year, be it with consistancy, delivery from a dead ball, his excellent play with Gerrard, or the fact that he may be more "up for it" than Alonso.

Lets not dress opinions up as facts.

You presume that Barry may make the difference in our draws and our losses. That's a fairly big presumption, because with a fit Alonso in our team, our central midfield was our strongest position. It's no co-incidence that our form picked up when Alonso was on the pitch. The Arsenal game where he limped off was a microcosm of that.

Alonso wasn't the reason we dropped points - look at Danny Agger's untimely injuries, or a lack of quality alternatives to Torres up front. The former has been addressed, but the latter is a much more important issue than midfield musical chairs.

This whole 'excellent play with Gerrard' thing has been completely blown out of proportion as well, and is rendered somewhat redundant by the vastly differing roles that each player will be expected to play for Liverpool.

Cyrus

IrishMike wrote: »

A big step up in what way Al?
His passing accuracy is a sizeable amount lower.
He is not going to get the same level of assists at Liverpool due to the fact
that our system will not allow him as much licence to get forward.
He will also not get as many tackles in as Mascherano is the king in that area.
So we are basically buying him to take corner kicks and free kicks from what i can see

did you not say yourself alonsos stats were skewed having only played 15 games last season, no point in comparing passing accuracy for last season. also i dont see why you took out dead ball assists, the whole point is that this is an area where we lack

believe it or not id rather keep a fit, in form alonso but a) we dont have one and b) rafa has made up his mind to sell. Barry is a good player, with a good understanding with gerrard and at worst he wont disimprove the team and with some luck he will add some consistency to midfield, get play moving quicker than alonso and improve our dead ball delivery.

that said if xavi stays and we dont get barry i dont mind, i would like to get robbie keane tho and i believe getting a player like him is crucial to an improvement next season

Karmafaerie

IrishMike wrote: »

No top clubs dont always overpay for players.
When is the last time Arsenal overpaid for a player?

*cough*Theo Walcott*cough*

IrishMike

Mr Alan wrote: »

didnt they just pay 12m-15m for Nasri?

Arsenal do overpay, but not near like the rest of the clubs, they are the exception rather than the rule, they are helped by fans who seem to be eternally patient with the manager and the fact that the manager has been implementing a different structure at the club for the last 10 years or so.

also worth noting, that have won **** all in the last few years and are losing some of their best players who dont seem overly enamoured with this "youthful" approach.

They paid 11m from what i heard which is definitely not overpaying.
The players they are losing are because Wenger wants to sell them.
No doubt he will have some superstar french kid waiting in the wings to
replace them.

a step up that he regularly performs excellently in the PL. I also think that he will be afforded loads of opportunity to get forward with Mascherano always being there to hold things together at the back. A lot of Alonsos reluctance to get forward more, is down to himself rather than Rafa imo, Alonso always wanted to perform almost like a sweeper. Barry wont.

add in the set pieces as a bonus:D

Hate to break it to you Al but Alonso regularly performs in the PL.
He has probably had 6 or 8 bad games in 3 years yet people write him off.
He is an exceptional player.
Also where are you getting the impression that he refuses to move forward?
I seriously doubt Rafa would play a player who doesnt fully implement
his tactics on the pitch, no chance at all that is true.
If he plays deep its because he is told to.

IrishMike

Cyrus wrote: »

did you not say yourself alonsos stats were skewed having only played 15 games last season, no point in comparing passing accuracy for last season. also i dont see why you took out dead ball assists, the whole point is that this is an area where we lack

I did it because Carrick and Alonso dont take free kicks normally whereas Barry does.

Karmafaerie

IrishMike wrote: »

Hate to break it to you Al but Alonso regularly performs in the PL.
He has probably had 6 or 8 bad games in 3 years yet people write him off.
He is an exceptional player.
Also where are you getting the impression that he refuses to move forward?
I seriously doubt Rafa would play a player who doesnt fully implement
his tactics on the pitch, no chance at all that is true.
If he plays deep its because he is told to.

Hey Mike, could you let me know who this Alonso you're talking about is, cause if you're saying that the Xabi who plays for LFC has had 6-8 bad games in 3 years then you've stepped off the cliff of oppinionated fan, and landed -flat on your face- in the pit of ridiculous statements!!!

Xabi is a player who's supposed to control the tempo, pace, and attack of our whole team.
Everytime that he doesn't do this, he's having a bad game.

What I hate is all of the people here who talk about how inconsistant Luis Garcia was, but point to a time two years ago, when Alonso was great, and say that it makes him a great player!

I'll take hypocritical for $500 Alex!!!!!

Karmafaerie

IrishMike wrote: »

I did it because Carrick and Alonso dont take free kicks normally whereas Barry does.

Well then you should take out goals from his own half, cause Barry and Cesc don't do that!

How ridiculous a statement is that!!!

Barry can do something that the others can't - something that we badly, badly, need - and you decide that it isn't valid cause it makes Barry look good!!!:rolleyes:

Barry can cross a ball from a corner too.
If we buy him, and Liverpool score 10 goals from his corners next season, do we not count them?!!!!

_blank_

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Barry can cross a ball from a corner too.
If we buy him, and Liverpool score 10 goals from his corners next season, do we not count them?!!!!

It's actually shameful the amount of so-called world class players who can't beat the first man from a corner.

IrishMike

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Hey Mike, could you let me know who this Alonso you're talking about is, cause if you're saying that the Xabi who plays for LFC has had 6-8 bad games in 3 years then you've stepped off the cliff of oppinionated fan, and landed -flat on your face- in the pit of ridiculous statements!!!

Xabi is a player who's supposed to control the tempo, pace, and attack of our whole team.
Everytime that he doesn't do this, he's having a bad game.

What I hate is all of the people here who talk about how inconsistant Luis Garcia was, but point to a time two years ago, when Alonso was great, and say that it makes him a great player!

I'll take hypocritical for $500 Alex!!!!!

First off let me just say i hate Alex Trebek
But seriously i thought it was a big mistake to let Garcia go.
We have missed him since he left in fairness so im not sure how i was being hypocritical?

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Well then you should take out goals from his own half, cause Barry and Cesc don't do that!

How ridiculous a statement is that!!!

Barry can do something that the others can't - something that we badly, badly, need - and you decide that it isn't valid cause it makes Barry look good!!!:rolleyes:

Barry can cross a ball from a corner too.
If we buy him, and Liverpool score 10 goals from his corners next season, do we not count them?!!!!

How may i ask is it a ridiculous statement?
Barry takes all of Villas free kicks/penalties.
When you heard people say Kuyt scored xy or z goals the first retort you
normally hear is how many of those are penalties?

Barry got 14 assists both from play and dead balls.
Sounds a lot but he got 6 of those from dead balls.
Kuyt got 11 assists with none from dead balls.
To say Barry got 14 assists which makes it better than Kuyts 11 is misleading to say the least.

Bounty Hunter

colly10 wrote: »

We havn't bought yet, the higer they drive that price the easier it will be to get someone elsewhere with the quality

Villa arent driving the price up, They set a price at the start of the dealings which to some would seem extortionate (18m) mainley due to the fact that they had no intention of selling. Several bids later and much newspaper shenanigans and Villa are still sticking to that price tag.

btw with Regards to his stats (Barry) his goals stat is quite misleading as most of them are from the penalty spot. His assists are very good though.

that paper report saying Alonso's sale is going to affect both deals is just a confused journalist who thinks the Barry deal could go through now but not while Alonso is about. Not for the fee you'd recieve for him but for the position he fills in the teamsheet earmarked for Barry he occupies. Same journailist must be assuming that Rafa was given no cash apart from money from players sold would need a few more than the £18m its believed he has for Barry in order to sign. Im sure thats rubbish though

Keane to liverpool / Berbatov to united is an interesting one to me, they are hardley going to sell both as youd think Spurs would want some players who have played together before in that team next season instead of a team full of signings (albeit goood ones) Personally the Berbatov one seems more likely to me, while Rafa signs Barry and a WF like Silva.

Karmafaerie

Des wrote: »

It's actually shameful the amount of so-called world class players who can't beat the first man from a corner.

I know.
It's ridiculous.
You'd think that all defenders in the premiership were twenty feet tall!

Barry however, is a great deliverer of the ball, and if he does come, that's one aspect of our game that'll be greatly improved.

Karmafaerie

IrishMike wrote: »

First off let me just say i hate Alex Trebek
But seriously i thought it was a big mistake to let Garcia go.
We have missed him since he left in fairness so im not sure how i was being hypocritical?

Sorry meant to put in that I'm not saying that you've said anything bad about l'il Luis, cause I couldn't remember your oppinion on the matter.
That was meant as more of a broad accusation, and not at you!:D

IrishMike wrote:

How may i ask is it a ridiculous statement?
Barry takes all of Villas free kicks/penalties.
When you heard people say Kuyt scored xy or z goals the first retort you
normally hear is how many of those are penalties?

Barry got 14 assists both from play and dead balls.
Sounds a lot but he got 6 of those from dead balls.
Kuyt got 11 assists with none from dead balls.
To say Barry got 14 assists which makes it better than Kuyts 11 is misleading to say the least.

It's ridiculous cause you're taking away one of Barrys best abilities.
He is great at dead ball delivery.

David Becham made a name for himself with a deadball, but you're saying that we should just discount all of Barrys.

GB has a very rare talent in the premiership right now.
He can beat the first defender with a corner.
Xabi, Gerrard, Pennant, Riise, Aurelio, Kewel, all of them couldn't beat the first man if it was me!!!

Liverpool will score more goals from corners if we sign Barry.

You can't look at Barry and say he isn't as good as Alonso in the "Alonso" role.
He's not.
But Alonso isn't as good as Barry in the "Barry" role
(If you know what I mean!)

You're discounting one of Barrys biggest pros by saying that you're not gonna compare his deadball delivery to the others, just cause he's good enough to take them!


P.S: It was 18 assists including deadball for Barry in the last three seasons, not 14!;)

DeadSkin

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

btw with Regards to his stats (Barry) his goals stat is quite misleading as most of them are from the penalty spot.

Still has to put the ball in the back of net

IrishMike

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Sorry meant to put in that I'm not saying that you've said anything bad about l'il Luis, cause I couldn't remember your oppinion on the matter.
That was meant as more of a broad accusation, and not at you!:D




It's ridiculous cause you're taking away one of Barrys best abilities.
He is great at dead ball delivery.

David Becham made a name for himself with a deadball, but you're saying that we should just discount all of Barrys.

GB has a very rare talent in the premiership right now.
He can beat the first defender with a corner.
Xabi, Gerrard, Pennant, Riise, Aurelio, Kewel, all of them couldn't beat the first man if it was me!!!

Liverpool will score more goals from corners if we sign Barry.

You can't look at Barry and say he isn't as good as Alonso in the "Alonso" role.
He's not.
But Alonso isn't as good as Barry in the "Barry" role
(If you know what I mean!)

You're discounting one of Barrys biggest pros by saying that you're not gonna compare his deadball delivery to the others, just cause he's good enough to take them!


P.S: It was 18 assists including deadball for Barry in the last three seasons, not 14!;)

Barry got 14 assists last season for Villa with 6 being from dead balls.
Its kind of a stupid point to buy a player for his corner taking ability.
He is not a step up from Alonso in overall play so why are we buying him for a
hugely inflated sum?

And on the stats dont people normally take out penalties when talking about
goalscoring rate? Why would the same not be true of assists?

Oh and last point, if Barry is so good at corners why does ashley young now take them?

_blank_

DeadSkin wrote: »

Still has to put the ball in the back of net

Penalty taking is a skill in itslef, anyone who discounts goals from panalties is delusional.

If it wasn't the case, then there would be no need for a dedicated penalty taker at teams.

Stupid to say otherwise, imo.

DeadSkin

Des wrote: »

Penalty taking is a skill in itslef, anyone who discounts goals from panalties is delusional.

If it wasn't the case, then there would be no need for a dedicated penalty taker at teams.

Stupid to say otherwise, imo.

Exactly.
Didn't RVN when he was at United go on a mad run of not missing a penalty at some stage.

Cyrus

never mind RVN

what about The Great Matt Le Tissier

48/49

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Le_Tissier

IrishMike

What about david o leary?
1/1 = 100%

Karmafaerie

IrishMike wrote: »

Barry got 14 assists last season for Villa with 6 being from dead balls.
Its kind of a stupid point to buy a player for his corner taking ability.
He is not a step up from Alonso in overall play so why are we buying him for a
hugely inflated sum?

And on the stats dont people normally take out penalties when talking about
goalscoring rate? Why would the same not be true of assists?

Oh and last point, if Barry is so good at corners why does ashley young now take them?

So Ronaldo only scored 33 goals last season then did he?!
No people don't take penalties out when talking about goals scored.

And are you honestly trying to say that all that GB can do is cross a ball!

He plays a completely different kind of game than Alonso.
Alonso sits back and dictates.
GB plays like Gerrard.
Always moving, and setting the pace.

You have this idea stuck in your head that GB won't be able to play like Alonso has.
Well.
He won't.
He'll be able to play like Gareth Barry.
And the way I see it, playing like Alonso hasn't got us any titles now has it!

And as for Young taking the corners.

Young = right footed
Barry = left footed

Notice any difference there?!

Barry takes the corners from one side, Young the other.

Bounty Hunter

strange havent seen this mentioned here tho i have in the villa thread, Carson is in talks with Stoke according to SSN after a 3.5m bid was accepted. Thought you would get more than that myself although i didnt really want him vback at VP

edit: although BBC say its 4m

Stoke agree fee for keeper Carson

Carson made his debut for England against Austria in November
Stoke City have agreed a fee of around £4m with Liverpool for England international goalkeeper Scott Carson, BBC Radio Stoke understands.

Carson was at the Britannia Stadium on Monday to open negotiations over personal terms.

The 22-year-old joined Liverpool from Leeds for £750,000 in 2005, but spent last season on loan at Aston Villa, making 35 Premier League appearances.

Carson, who has two caps for England, would become Stoke's record signing.

The proposed £4m fee marks a major reduction in the player's asking price, with Liverpool previously holding out for around £10m.

606: DEBATE
Carson would be a very good signing

mancitizens
However, Carson was critical of his original price tag, claiming it could price him out of a move.

Aston Villa had been favourites to sign Carson on a permanent basis but manager Martin O'Neill's interest appeared to cool with Tottenham keeper Paul Robinson emerging as a more likely target for the Villans.

Liverpool, who have already sold Peter Crouch to Portsmouth this summer, are keen to free up transfer funds as they look to finalise a deal for Villa captain Gareth Barry and continue to chase Spurs striker Robbie Keane.

Stoke, meanwhile, will hope that Carson follows midfielder Rudolph Austin into the club, the 22-year-old midfielder signing in a £1m deal from Jamaican side Portmore United.

MementoMori

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

strange havent seen this mentioned here tho i have in the villa thread, Carson is in talks with Stoke according to SSN after a 3.5m bid was accepted. Thought you would get more than that myself although i didnt really want him vback at VP

Give us a minute

BBC saying a fee of £4m which is a bit disappointing to be honest. Very much at the the lower end of what I'd have thought we would get for him. Better be well tasty add-ons in addition plus a bang-tidy sell on clause.

However saw somewere else that while a £4m transfer fee had been agreed, Carson was currently in Stoke to discuss possible personal terms before going to West Brom to discuss terms with them as they have also met the £4m valuation. Fingers crossed this leads to an increase in the price.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/stoke_city/7505679.stm

Stoke agree fee for keeper Carson

Carson made his debut for England against Austria in November
Stoke City have agreed a fee of around £4m with Liverpool for England international goalkeeper Scott Carson, BBC Radio Stoke understands.

Carson was at the Britannia Stadium on Monday to open negotiations over personal terms.

The 22-year-old joined Liverpool from Leeds for £750,000 in 2005, but spent last season on loan at Aston Villa, making 35 Premier League appearances.

Carson, who has two caps for England, would become Stoke's record signing.

The proposed £4m fee marks a major reduction in the player's asking price, with Liverpool previously holding out for around £10m.

However, Carson was critical of his original price tag, claiming it could price him out of a move.

Aston Villa had been favourites to sign Carson on a permanent basis, but manager Martin O'Neill's interest appeared to cool with Tottenham keeper Paul Robinson emerging as a more likely target for the Villans.

Liverpool, who have already sold Peter Crouch to Portsmouth this summer, are keen to free up transfer funds as they look to finalise a deal for Villa captain Gareth Barry and continue to chase Spurs striker Robbie Keane.

Stoke, meanwhile, will hope that Carson follows midfielder Rudolph Austin into the club, the 22-year-old midfielder signing in a £1m deal from Jamaican side Portmore United.

Bounty Hunter

MementoMori wrote: »

However saw somewere else that while a £4m transfer fee had been agreed, Carson was currently in Stoke to discuss possible personal terms before going to West Brom to discuss terms with them as they have also met the £4m valuation. Fingers crossed this leads to an increase in the price.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/stoke_city/7505679.stm

cant really be an increase in price if bids are already accepted, just a straight choice for Scotty, woulda thought West Brom outta the two.

IrishMike

Karmafaerie wrote: »

So Ronaldo only scored 33 goals last season then did he?!
No people don't take penalties out when talking about goals scored.

And are you honestly trying to say that all that GB can do is cross a ball!

He plays a completely different kind of game than Alonso.
Alonso sits back and dictates.
GB plays like Gerrard.
Always moving, and setting the pace.

You have this idea stuck in your head that GB won't be able to play like Alonso has.
Well.
He won't.
He'll be able to play like Gareth Barry.
And the way I see it, playing like Alonso hasn't got us any titles now has it!

And as for Young taking the corners.

Young = right footed
Barry = left footed

Notice any difference there?!

Barry takes the corners from one side, Young the other.

Lovely tone throughout you post, its most appreciated.
Garreth Barry plays like Garreth Barry, insightful.
Barry doesnt control the tempo of a game with his crisp passing.
The reason he doesnt is that he is a hustle and bustle type player whereas
Alonso is a cultured ball playing central midfielder.
For me i would prefer to see a deep lying central midfielder (Alonso)
control a game and feed Gerrard, Babel and Silva/Aquerro/An Other
with precise passes in forward positions.
In my opinion Alonso is far far more equipped to do this than Barry.
Barry is better defensively than Alonso but that is not a problem because
Alonso has Mascherano to do the hard graft behind him.
Barry is untried and untested at the highest level.
Pennant had the highest assists record in the PL the season before he
joined Liverpool, then they dried up.
Just because you are a big fish in a small pond doesnt mean you will be a
bigger fish in a bigger pond.
Barry may struggle to adapt to the new formation and if he does his price and
his age will leave Liverpool in a bad situation.
£18m is too much, i dont care how many free kicks he takes

MementoMori

From aTony Barrett article in the Echo - Seems to quash any notion of a £3m for JP deal, which is very good news. I'd be hoping for something around the £5m mark - maybe more especially if Blackburn manage to flog Bentley for £17m.

Meanwhile, despite speculation suggesting otherwise, Jermaine Pennant has not entered into talks with Blackburn regarding a potential move to Ewood Park.

Benitez would be willing to let Pennant leave Anfield but only if someone offers a great deal more than the £3m being quoted in some sections of the press.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/07/14/daniel-agger-return-a-huge-boost-says-sami-hyypia-100252-21336290/3/

MementoMori

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

cant really be an increase in price if bids are already accepted, just a straight choice for Scotty, woulda thought West Brom outta the two.

Yeah I know but I'm just damm greedy with regard to Carson especially after nearly flogging him to your lot for £10m :p Damm you McClaren.

Any chance the Barry £18m valuation could be MON's partly angry response to this?:P:P

Cyrus

IrishMike wrote: »

Lovely tone throughout you post, its most appreciated.
Garreth Barry plays like Garreth Barry, insightful.
Barry doesnt control the tempo of a game with his crisp passing.
The reason he doesnt is that he is a hustle and bustle type player whereas
Alonso is a cultured ball playing central midfielder.
For me i would prefer to see a deep lying central midfielder (Alonso)
control a game and feed Gerrard, Babel and Silva/Aquerro/An Other
with precise passes in forward positions.
In my opinion Alonso is far far more equipped to do this than Barry.
Barry is better defensively than Alonso but that is not a problem because
Alonso has Mascherano to do the hard graft behind him.
Barry is untried and untested at the highest level.
Pennant had the highest assists record in the PL the season before he
joined Liverpool, then they dried up.
Just because you are a big fish in a small pond doesnt mean you will be a
bigger fish in a bigger pond.
Barry may struggle to adapt to the new formation and if he does his price and
his age will leave Liverpool in a bad situation.
£18m is too much, i dont care how many free kicks he takes

Cmon Mike you are making stuff up now :rolleyes:

Pennant got 5 assists in 35 league starts (used in 38 games) for birmingham in 05/06 and then got 6 assists in 20 league starts (used in 34 games) for liverpool in the following season.

Mr Alan

MementoMori wrote: »

From aTony Barrett article in the Echo - Seems to quash any notion of a £3m for JP deal, which is very good news. I'd be hoping for something around the £5m mark - maybe more especially if Blackburn manage to flog Bentley for £17m.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/07/14/daniel-agger-return-a-huge-boost-says-sami-hyypia-100252-21336290/3/

tbh, i'd expect 6m for Pennant.

Karmafaerie

IrishMike wrote: »

Lovely tone throughout you post, its most appreciated.
Garreth Barry plays like Garreth Barry, insightful.
Barry doesnt control the tempo of a game with his crisp passing.
The reason he doesnt is that he is a hustle and bustle type player whereas
Alonso is a cultured ball playing central midfielder.
For me i would prefer to see a deep lying central midfielder (Alonso)
control a game and feed Gerrard, Babel and Silva/Aquerro/An Other
with precise passes in forward positions.
In my opinion Alonso is far far more equipped to do this than Barry.
Barry is better defensively than Alonso but that is not a problem because
Alonso has Mascherano to do the hard graft behind him.
Barry is untried and untested at the highest level.
Pennant had the highest assists record in the PL the season before he
joined Liverpool, then they dried up.
Just because you are a big fish in a small pond doesnt mean you will be a
bigger fish in a bigger pond.
Barry may struggle to adapt to the new formation and if he does his price and
his age will leave Liverpool in a bad situation.
£18m is too much, i dont care how many free kicks he takes

As Cyrus pointed out, you're slightly off with the Pennant stat.
I think the one that you're looking for, is that Pennant had the most crosses in the premiership the season before joining Liverpool.
If JP was playing week in, week out for us, I'm sure that he'd have gotten loads of crosses in.
Whether any of them would have landed near a Liverpool player is a different thing!:p

Sorry if my tone seemed off.
Not intended.

I just really dont think that people give GB enough credit.
I suppose I take it a bit personally, cause I've said for years that he's an undervalued player, and that he'd be a great signing for us.
If he does sign and play well for us, then I'm going to get to shove it in so many of my friends faces, after years of listening to them laugh at me saying he'd do well at Liverpool!!!:D:D:D

missingtime

Can of lucozade and two packets of munchies for pennant. done deal.