Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2008/2009

missingtime

Why couldn't liverpool and villa arrange some sort of deal with carson?

probably asking a bit much considering all thats been going on.

Mr Alan

final thing from me in regards the midfield conundrum, i'd love to see Alonso stay and totally regain and build on his form from his first season, tell O'Neill to **** off and that to be that.

just cant see it happening is all.

Bounty Hunter

we dont want Carson anymore, it wasnt just the transfer fee

sweetie

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

we dont want Carson anymore, it wasnt just the transfer fee

was he that bad for ye?

MementoMori

On the Barry deal - I always thought that it only made sense from the viewpoint that Rafa pretty much viewed it as a like-for-like swap with Barry replacing Alonso. You can debate who is the better play all you like but it at the end of the day it comes down to the fact that Rafa sees merit in this and he's ultimately the one who decides.

I could never imagine, and still cant, a situation with both Barry and Alonso in the Liverpool squad. Given the apparent financial situation it just doesn't seem feasible in my eyes. When news first surfaced I thought it was strange that we were interested in Barry because CM didn't seem to an area of the squad that obviously needed strengthening/improving as much as other areas in the squad. However I thought ok Rafa sees a merit in replacing Alonso with Barry, fair enough.

All along I've thought that it would be the case that whatever we got for Alonso from Juve would cover the cost of replacing Barry plus or minus a couple of million. However the problem with this as it currently stands is the signing of Poulsen for Juve. According to some reports this means an end to the chance of Xabi going to Juve - I don't know how true this is as Poulsen is a completely different type of midfielder to Alonso.

There have been reports from Liverpool that the purchase of Barry was not dependent on the sale of Alonso in monetary terms. Basically I took this to mean that there was enough of a transfer kitty to purchase Barry prior to the selling of Alonso i.e. that there was a transfer kitty of around £15m to £20 available to Rafa and that in monetary terms that it wasnt a case of waiting to get money in from Juve before paying Villa. However to think that the purchase of Barry was completely independent of the sale of Alonso is just nonsense. If Barry was bought - say for £15m and Alonso was kept then there would obviously be £15m that wasnt available to spend on other players.

Basically I'm saying that unless Alonso is sold or used in part-exchange for a forward player, I don't think that Liverpool are going to buy Barry. All along I thought Juventus were genuinely interested in Alonso and it was a case of haggling over price. Now however I'm not so sure that they are interested. There have been rumours of Alonso being used as part exchange in a deal for various attacking players but these are always complex, given there are so many additional variable involve in the deal. As far as I'm aware of
there have been no rumours of any other clubs showing any interest in Alonso

A deal for Barry at £17m plus Finnan, if Alonso was sold at £16.5m, was one thing, it's a whole different kettle of fish if Alonso isnt sold. Given the Juve situation (buying Poulsen) I can't see Liverpool agreeing a deal for Barry at any level until a deal for Alonso has been agreed.

Given the reports below, knocking the Arsenal link on its head, I can well see the possibility of Barry being a Villa player next season.

Gareth Barry Kop move stuck in limbo

Jul 14 2008

GARETH Barry’s move to Liverpool remains in limbo with Rafa Benitez no nearer reaching an agreement with Villa over a transfer fee.

Martin O’Neill has dismissed any serious interest from Arsenal in the player but Barry’s move to Anfield is not expected to drag on too much longer with a fourth offer set to arrive following last week’s Villa ‘proposal’ which involved Steve Finnan.

Villa have asked Liverpool to increase their latest cash bid of £15million, which was rejected last week, to £17million with £1million-rated Finnan included in the deal.

Newspaper reports over the weekend suggested Arsenal were involved in lengthy negotiations with Villa to try to hi-jack Liverpool’s attempt to sign Barry and were prepared to throw in full-back Justin Hoyte – a long-term O’Neill target.

But O’Neill has refuted those claims.

“It is not true. The situation is very clear. I and Steve Walford know Pat Rice (Arsene Wenger’s assistant), and Pat phoned Steve to ask how far the Liverpool thing had gone and that they might show an interest. But the conversation was not very long. There has not been ‘lengthy negotiation’ at all. Absolutely not.

“In fact the conversation, when we discussed our position with Liverpool, Arsenal said: ‘That’s fine’ and they’ll: ‘let us know’. That is exactly what happened.”

http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2008/07/14/gareth-barry-kop-move-stuck-in-limbo-97319-21336466/

Karmafaerie

Mr Alan wrote: »

final thing from me in regards the midfield conundrum, i'd love to see Alonso stay and totally regain and build on his form from his first season, tell O'Neill to **** off and that to be that.

just cant see it happening is all.

Agree completely.
In theory he's amazing, but in practice......

Bounty Hunter

sweetie wrote: »

was he that bad for ye?

No but personally as i said in the Villa thread I lost confidence with him near the end of the season and it seems he began to lose confidence in himself after his England howler. He doesent have the greatest command of his area and is often lacking when it comes to taking crosses IMO other areas of his game have weakened as his confidence wained. I do think he will be a very good singing for a Stoke or W.Brom and at a good price too. but although the odd Villa fan will disagree I think we can do better, although unfortunatley we havent been linked to the best recently (Robinson, Friedel who i rate but he's 37) although we have essentially just signed Guzan (MLS goalie of the season) as backup.

Karmafaerie

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

No but personally as i said in the Villa thread I lost confidence with him near the end of the season and it seems he began to lose confidence in himself after his England howler. He doesent have the greatest command of his area and is often lacking when it comes to taking crosses IMO other areas of his game have weakened as his confidence wained. I do think he will be a very good singing for a Stoke or W.Brom and at a good price too. but although the odd Villa fan will disagree I think we can do better, although unfortunatley we havent been linked to the best recently (Robinson, Friedel who i rate but he's 37) although we have essentially just signed Guzan (MLS goalie of the season) as backup.

I can see what you're saying.
I still rate Carson though.
I think what he needs is a few years of stability at a lower table club.
Such as Stoke, WBA, etc.

Then he'll get his confidence back and will have a chance to realise his potential.

I can see him being one of the best in the PL one of the days.
That's why I hope that we snag on a lovely sell on clause in this transfer.
If he goes to Arsenal/Man Utd for £10,000,000 (or Chelsea for £100,000,000:p), down the line, I'd expect Pool to get a nice slice of that!

IrishMike

Cyrus wrote: »

Cmon Mike you are making stuff up now :rolleyes:

Pennant got 5 assists in 35 league starts (used in 38 games) for birmingham in 05/06 and then got 6 assists in 20 league starts (used in 34 games) for liverpool in the following season.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

As Cyrus pointed out, you're slightly off with the Pennant stat.
I think the one that you're looking for, is that Pennant had the most crosses in the premiership the season before joining Liverpool.

Thanking you, knew it was something along those lines.
Thing is Liverpools formation didnt suit Pennant, who is to say it will suit Barry?

He is unproven at the highest level and he is unrproven in the formation we will be playing.
I hope he will be a huge success but i just cant fathom the transfer fee.
Its 3m less than torres for crying out loud and the same as Mascherano who
is an argentinan regular and 23 years old.
Mindblowing

Karmafaerie

IrishMike wrote: »

Thanking you, knew it was something along those lines.
Thing is Liverpools formation didnt suit Pennant, who is to say it will suit Barry?
He has played 4-4-2 his entire career and he is 28.
He is unproven at the highest level and he is unrproven in the formation we will be playing.
I hope he will be a huge success but i just cant fathom the transfer fee.
Its 3m less than torres for crying out loud and the same as Mascherano who
is an argentinan regular and 23 years old.
Mindblowing

I know it's a lot, but the Torres, Masch transfer fees aren't really comparable.

Torres was thought of as a great, but not worldclass player.
Plus there had been higher offers by Man Utd and AC (I think, could have been Inter) for up to £28,000,000 but he had refused them cause he wanted to come here. (God I love him!!!:p)

As for Masch.
We got very lucky there.
When we signed him on loan, he was sitting on the bench (if even) at relegation threatened West Ham.
As such he had no form.

Plus his ownership was more than murky. Remember how long it took us to get the transfer worked out with the FA?

When we loaned him, we agreed a first option at £16,000,000.
If we hadn't taken that option last summer, another club would have taken him at close to twice that!
Remember Juve, Inter, Barca, etc all looking for him at £25,000,000 +?

We got those two players at much less than their value, cause of the great work of Rafa and co.

With Barry, we'll have to pay above the odds for once.

In a world where Bent is worth £18,000,000, so is Barry.

To put it into context a bit, Villeral want £30,000,000 for a 32 year old Senna!
Atletico won't settle for less than £40,000,000 for Aguero.

Garreth Barry for £15,000,000-18,000,000 is too much, but it's what the market is.

As for Alonso, another point about his consistancy is how few clubs are in for him.
ie: only Juve.

If he was as good as he's often made out here, then half of the clubs in Europe would be bitting our hands off at £15,000,000.

Mr Alan

Sissoko wrote:

"I have talked to him and he told me he is happy at Liverpool."

http://www.sportbox.tv/football/news/story.php?id=268007

Good to see Alonso is happy to stay.

Have a feeling the Barry deal may not go ahead anymore, if thats the case hopefully this whole saga will have been a massive kick up the arse for Xabi.

IrishMike

Mr Alan wrote: »

http://www.sportbox.tv/football/news/story.php?id=268007

Good to see Alonso is happy to stay.

Have a feeling the Barry deal may not go ahead anymore, if thats the case hopefully this whole saga will have been a massive kick up the arse for Xabi.

If you ask me that would be by far and away the best outcome to this farce.

Mr Alan

Mike, i mean a ****ing MASSIVE kick up the arse.

tbh unless he dramatically improves his performances i'll still want barry to come in over the Jan window, and next summer (for a nicely discounted price)

PHB

This whole debate is arguing at cross purposes.

I doubt you'll find many people who would argue that Barry on the top of his game is better than Alonso at the top of his game. Infact I can't really think of anyone who would maybe bar MON.

The point is that, Alonso hasn't played at the top of his game in about 2 years.
Barry has played at the top of his game for the last 2 years, especially last year.

As such, Barry would be a step up. He's not going to light the world alight imo, but he'd be better than what you currently have. People can talk about Alonsos potential all they want, but the simple fact of the matter is, he's not bloody achieving it!

Mr Alan

I just thanked one of PHB posts, i feel dirty

NotWormBoy

I'm sure he does too.

gixerfixer

If (as it now looks) we are going to keep Alonso and leave MON with Barry :pac: then it will send out a sign that we wont be bullied into paying way over the odds for very average players indeed.Can only be a good thing IMO.