Just bought a car - already blue smoke.

ShiverinEskimo

Just picked up an 02 Saab 9-5 and pulling into my street i accelerate up my road and leave a cloud of blue smoke in my wake - 2 hours after driving it out of the garage. I took it for a drive and didn't notice a thing wrong - he's just serviced it for me since I agreed the sale but now this.

It was off a dealer with a 4 month warranty so it should be covered but at this stage I just wanna walk away with my cash back but I doubt a dealer will ever agree to that.

I'm sick, I mean physically sick.

Tails142

Did you have the handbrake on?

Could've just been something burning off if the car has been sitting up for a while.

Run_to_da_hills

Get an independant smog test on it, if it fails, ie burning oil/rings/valve seals gone bring it back. If thatl fails get a solicitors letter.

ShiverinEskimo

Tails142 wrote:

Did you have the handbrake on?

Could've just been something burning off if the car has been sitting up for a while.

It would have been sitting up for a while alright but I drove from Tallaght to Dundalk and its still happening.

Seems only to be happening when warm - did a bit of reading up and most forums I can find with similar descriptions say the turbo is on its last legs.

Going to get a good local mechanic I know to find out what's causing it and check everything else.

Such a kick to the balls to buy a lovely car and be all excited only to realise you've bought a dud.

peasant

Take it back to the dealer, that's what the warranty is for.

Don't drive it any more, a disintegrating turbo could kill the engine.

If it is only the turbo, that's a relatively easy (if expensive) fix (just bolt on a new turbocharger) ...but that's what the warranty is for.

stephenmarr

bring it back and get a refund. it might not be worth the hassle to keep it.
you never know what else could be wrong with it.

i had a problem with a subaru forester kept popping into netural when driving it had a 3month warranty.
brought it back garage said it was 1 loose bolt :rolleyes: wasnt happy with that so i told him i was bringing it to a subaru garage getting them to look at it and he would be billed with that he said my money would be ready to collect within the hour.

that told me everything he knew it would be expensive to fix.

Steve

That's nasty, sounds like the turbo's a bit sick alright.

I'd bring it back to the dealer and see what they have to say about it before spending money on an a mechanic to look at it.

Unless they specifically pointed out a defect to you as part of the sale then they have to repair, replace or refund (sale of goods act applies regardless of the warranty given).

bazz26

Lets not get ahead of ourselves yet folks.

Bring the car back to the dealer for them to inspect and see what the actual problem is and what they are going to do about it. Take it from there then.

BrianD3

Is the oil level OK? Could have been overfilled when they serviced it. I don't know if this would cause blue smoke though.

niceirishfella

Here what i would do - I's take the car back to the dealer and tell him what is wrong with the car and that you have lost confidence in the vehicle and you'd like a full refund. See what the response is.

If its not a positive one, tell him that you are covered by ‘The Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980’, goods should be:
• Of merchantable quality
• As described
• Fit for its purpose
• Corresponding to sample

the car is not fit for the purpose and all of these above applies by law regardless of any warranty so you are entitled to your money back.
Be nice, but be clear and stern if need be - and dont leave without your cash back.

Steve

niceirishfella wrote: »

the car is not fit for the purpose

Sorry for being pedantic but "merchantable quality" is the one in question here not "fit for propose" - it's still a car and drives, that's it's purpose.

Anyway, how can he tell the dealer what's wrong when he doesn't know exactly what the cause is. Is looks like the turbo is faulty but it could be something else.

Steve

BrianD3 wrote: »

Is the oil level OK? Could have been overfilled when they serviced it. I don't know if this would cause blue smoke though.

I was thinking that but then thought I'd got it from watching F1.:D

niceirishfella

stevec wrote: »

Sorry for being pedantic but "merchantable quality" is the one in question here not "fit for propose" - it's still a car and drives, that's it's purpose.

Anyway, how can he tell the dealer what's wrong when he doesn't know exactly what the cause is. Is looks like the turbo is faulty but it could be something else.

hi Steve,
I listed all of the areas the act covers - sorry if had confused or overlaoaded the pedantic-ness (if this word exists):D in you.

Steve

niceirishfella wrote: »

hi Steve,
I listed all of the areas the act covers - sorry if had confused or overlaoaded the pedantic-ness (if this word exists):D in you.

soz, didn't mean to offend.:D

niceirishfella

No worries man, no worries.........

ShiverinEskimo

Aye - he's getting a phone call first thing monday morning. I'm in Dundalk and he's in Tallaght so it'll have to be driven again - prob not until next weekend the way I'm working.

I dont mind paying a local mechanic to just diagnose the situation if he can do it without too much labour. At least then I'll know the extent of the problem and be in control of the situation if he tries to bull**** me. But i'll be calling him first to see what kind of reception I get.

biggus

name the dealer here to see feedback. your not accusing him of anything yet.

old boy

ladd, a s#it load of blue smoke, take it back, park it, collect the dosh, make sure the oil level is up,before you drive, stop often, let it cool, a lot of tea or coffee, keep checking it on the way down, make sure that, THE OIL in the engine does not contain, gear oil.

ShiverinEskimo

old boy wrote: »

ladd, a s#it load of blue smoke, take it back, park it, collect the dosh, make sure the oil level is up,before you drive, stop often, let it cool, a lot of tea or coffee, keep checking it on the way down, make sure that, THE OIL in the engine does not contain, gear oil.

Its not overheating at all and when cruising there is no blue smoke whatsoever - I drove the whole way down the M50 and M1 and it was only as I pulled into my street that I noticed how bad it was and I've since tested it again and if I drive it really easy its fine - just whenever I accelerate even remotely harsh - poof...

This is why I think its the turbo.

S.I.R

blue smoke = head gasket failure.


congrats , you have a Buy & sell wreck

ShiverinEskimo

S.I.R. - Not neccessarily - head gasket failure would lead to smoke coming from a failure greasy messy engine bay. There doesn't seem to be any leakage around the engine and the blue smoke is only coming from the exhaust and only when driven with a bit of zest.

Head gasket tends to be an ongoing, constant blue smoke matter no?

Slidey

S.I.R wrote: »

blue smoke = head gasket failure.


congrats , you have a Buy & sell wreck

Good post there...not
When an engine emmits blue smoke it means it is burning oil (generally)
There are 3 main reasons for this and in a diesel a headgasket is rarely one.

1) turbo (if one is fitted), oil leak from the turbo in to exhaust and burning there or into intercooler and inlet manifold and burning in the engine.

2)Valve stem oil seals, where the seals on the vlve stems have deterioated or cracked and allow the oil that is lubricating the head to seep down past the valves and burn in the engine

3)Worn or damaged piston rings. Where the scarper ring is worn or a compression ring is damaged. Oil is left on the wall of the cylinder after burns then during combustion

To tarnish the dealer in this way is unfair. The vehicle may ahve been in stock for some time and the turbo could have failed due to this
Once contacted they may replace the turbo, no questions asked.
To the OP, i would ring them before I drove all the way there and ask them if they feel it will be alright.
I have seen turbos break up and either fall down the exhaust manifold doing damage or cause the engine to run on the oil which can be very frightening if you dont know what to do, esp if it is an automatic or in my case was a large truck with a crash box and a slipping clutch but that is another story!

ShiverinEskimo

Thanks Sideways. I've not named the garage for that reason, I've not been able to contact him yet and throughout the deal he seemed quite dead on. I'm going to see what reaction I get before I start naming and shaming.

All three possibilities you've listed are more or less what I was thinking myself and my brother-in-laws dad was a mechanic long ago and he straight away mentioned points 2 and 3.

In all these cases I imagine its a relatively easy fix and shouldn't lead to ongoing problems - would I be right to assume that?

I dont care about the cost as it is under warranty.

ShiverinEskimo

Ok - rang the garage and he was fairly sound about it all. He asked me to describe what was happening in detail. He said he'd book it in but one of his mechanics is on hols (hmm) so could take time.

I explained that I dont want to be liable for any more damage caused by driving it back down as I'm not certain its the turbo. He said to get a local mechanic to diagnose the issue and find out if its ok to drive for 100miles or so back down and offered a replacement car while its being repaired (offered, I didn't have to ask).

He even said that if it is just the turbo and not additional stuff he may order and deliver a turbo to me and send me a cheque to cover the cost of getting it done, I then asked would that still be covered under warranty if the work isn't done by him and he said yes, that he would send me a letter with the cheque confirming he agreed to have the work done locally.

TBH I couldn't have asked for a better response - apart from the mechanic on hols thing he's been more than accomodating so far. I'm still disappointed it happened so soon but as a mate said: "nice one, you're going to get a new turbo out of it".

Ferris

make sure that you keep an eye on the oil level. As the turbo wears it will use more and more oil. There have been cases of turbo's emptying the sump which will obviously, sieze the engine. Also if oil is finding its way to the cat converter it can damage this too.

Is it a petrol or diesel car? Just keep the oil level up and swap the turbo, infinately better than needing a new engine. I would say its best for him to fix the car due to warranty issues, he has to provide you with a replacement car too.

ShiverinEskimo

It is a petrol - and i checked the oil and if anything its slightly over-filled but its hard to judge with the saab because the dipstick is incorporated into the oil fill cap and to lock if you push it down and turn and it comes back up - the movement is around 1cm so not sure what the exact point is for the dip as the 1cm makes quite a diff on the distick marker.

Ferris

It should be ok, check the owners manual for the procedure for checking the oil tho to see if you're doing it right.

I had a turbo go in a VAG 1.9 diesel, started sounding like a supercharger! My mechanic said that a lot of the time people don't notice, the turbo empties the sump of oil and the engine siezes.

AsphaltRisin'

lads i've seen the turbos go very early on 4 of those around that year, and on several more at around 80/90k on cars that have been in company car fleets i was involvoed in managing at the time. good news for anyone who bought them when they were finshed up as company cars though is that they all got brand new turbos straight away

ShiverinEskimo

Local mechanics verdict:

90% sure its the Turbo packing in and that this was caused by sludge in the Sump.

Remedy:
New Turbo ~750 (Think this v. dear though)
Sump Drop and clean and new fill of fully synthetic oil
Labour for both

My local guy said he'd be charging €1500 for the work

Nasty. Rang the guy back and told him the above minus the prices. He said he's going to price a turbo and call me before 12 tomo.

Ferris

Thats not expensive for a new turbo, it was over a grand for a new one for my car.

Not your problem anyway, it needs to be fixed and paid for by the dealer.

ShiverinEskimo

He'll regret the day he bought that car after this I reckon, I only paid 9 for it and aleady he'll be shaving at least a grand off this for repairs.

There's a lot to be said about testing a car before selling it however and this should have been done prior to sale. Considering it took me one drive home (and twenty mins in my girlfriend following behind noticed the smoke but couldn't tell me) it wouldn't have taken much to find this issue.