Guns, knives and kids

metman

Looking at the news here tonight another kid stabbed to death and another shot and in serious condition. I've lost track of how many stabbings and shootings we've had involving teens here this year already. So what's the answer to it? I've arrested kids for carrying knives and its always the same thing; "I carry it for protection."

How do we change this mentality, can we? Will stiffer sentences make any difference, or more police powers or tougher policing practices?

Personally I think regardless of what spin the bleeding hearts put on it, the carrying of guns, knives and being associated with gangs is seen as cool by kids from some backgrounds, and regardless of what opportunities they are afforded they will nonetheless opt for the gun or the gang. The only answer in this instance imo, is a long stretch inside. Yet stats here show that the average tariff for possession of a firearm is 2 years (despite a so-called mandatory 5 year sentence).

This problem is an issue for Police here, Ireland, the US...in fact everywhere, and I don't think its going to be resolved any time soon.

Views?

(ps I know the Potter kid stabbed wasn't specifically gang-related etc)

TheNog

I don't think this problem can be sorted by us or indeed by longer prison terms. What we need is better education at base level in schools to highlight the dangers of gang and knife crime. Next step up the ladder a properly resourced probation service to steer youths apprehended with offensive weapons. Finally for those who do not take part in help programs then prison terms and strict ones at that.

At the moment in Ireland we don;t have a properly resourced probation service and are therefore putting our very young offenders into prison environment where they are learning from the more tougher prisoners or their court cases are continuously put back for probation reports (due to lack of resources) and the youths get the impression they are getting away with the crime.

Our current system is having the victims of the crimes and the Emergency Services picking up the pieces of which we were not created to do.

mc-panda

Personally, I feel the Irish Prison System fails offenders, victims and society.
Sentencing is too lenient and there's no obligation for offenders to partake in interventions while inside. In the UK (such as within the DSPD units), rehabilitation programmes are a mandatory requirement before parole can be considered.

Without such programmes, prisons offer nothing but a solution that puts gang violence on ice, so to speak. Furthermore, there are extra dangers in incarcerating youths. Aready marginalised, a stretch only consolidates the opinion that it's them against society. It also renders them liable to be "taken in" and "protected" by gang members inside leading them to feel accepted by a new family.

As Martin Cahill once said, "Reform school was my primary school. St. Patrick's Institution was my secondary school. Mountjoy..my University. They thought me everything I needed to know".

Thus, have a prison system that acts only as a school for criminality fails everyone. Alternatively, having lenient sentences and legislative loopholes as we currently do suggests that our constitution is now acting more as a shield for the guilty rather than a sword for the innocent.

shakin

if you tackle the gangs then the youngins wouldnt have a lot to aspire to. easier said im sure but if there are no gangs at the top then they have nothing to find cool?

Sierra Oscar

Society in general needs to change, as long as it is seen as acceptable to carry weapons by some people we will have this problem.

The police and government cannot tackle this issue alone, the people in general need to make it clear that these sort of incidents need to stop now.

TheNog

BUt society in general do not believe that carrying weapons is the right thing to do. It is the minority that do carry these weapons that you will find come from dysfunctional families or from socially deprived areas and do not have the support of their parents or intervention from the state.

Of course not everyone in a socially deprived area is going to lead a ganster and drug fuelled life but you will find the majority of criminals com from these areas.

board om

Tbh I don’t think some of these kids understand what they are actually doing when it comes to carrying weapons. I don’t think they realize that when they get in a fight and they decide to pull that knife and stick it in someone, that person is going to be seriously injured or even die. I really don’t think they realize the severity of what they are getting themselves in to, and by the time they do it is too late. At that age you don’t fully understand the consequences of your actions. After the incident has happened it is too late to turn back.

Why they are carrying them is anyone’s guess. I suppose there is the threat that someone else might be carrying a knife, so if they are going to carry a knife then the other kid thinks he needs to carry a knife too. So it turns in to a sort of peer pressure / macho thing. Again I don’t think they understand what it means to use that knife. I would say a lot of kids who get into these situations think they are great showing off their knives and then when the fatal incident occurs they start realize the damage they have done to someone.

Obviously this isn’t always the case. There are some people who know exactly what they are doing and they carry the knife so as to inflict damage to others. There is no mistake in their intentions, but unfortunately they are the ones past helping.

Esel

board_om, have you been playing with your font colours again?

board om

esel wrote: »

board_om, have you been playing with your font colours again?

funny you say that. i had writtenn a post in MS Word earlier and then i cut & paste it into my reply box here. i think that must be why the font is changing coloiyr. the odd things is when using the standard skin the text is always black, so there is no visible difference in the colour.

i will see if i can change it for you.


**EDIT** how is that? can you see it now?

Esel

board om wrote: »

how is that? can you see it now?

Perfect.

beemer330

I myself work in the Irish Prison Service and have done for a good number of years now. I personally see a lot of assaults within the prison and 90 per cent of these involve weapons. I've seen people stabbed with pens, cut up wit cd's. etc.. The mentality of them is on another "scale and wavelength" to ours. They never have any problems speaking about it and they will tell you that if you don't carry a weapon to protect yourself, you'll come out the worst. And this comes from the streets! The Prison system is without any doubt a disgrace. Prisoners get taken off the streets and sent into prison to be rehabilitated, only to find themselves sharing a cell with a fellow gangmember or local "mate". They do not care that they are serving sentences and nowadays some of them actually feel they are safer in prison than they would be on the outside as things have spiralled out of control in the past few years. Something is going to have to be done soon as in my personal opinion (not that it's worth much) i think the emergency services i.e guards etc are going to be watchin over their shoulders constantly as young offenders and the likes just don't give a **** anymore and have no respect for themselves, their families or the authorities, and somebody is going to be hurt badly while on duty.

TheNog

+1

But will we see the government do anything about it?

The answer is no. They government didnt do anything when the money was there and they certainly are not going to do anything about now the money is not there. The sad thing is money spent on keeping prisoners locked up is wasted money where a bit extra money to properly rehabilitate a prisoner has a better chance of keeping that prisoner away from criminal behaviour in the future therefore reducing further sentencing.