Ireland vs Columbia, bitter Brian Kerr tells Il Trap to tone it down.

estebancambias

Ireland continue their pre-world cup preparations with a match against Columbia at Craven Cottage.

I think this match will be more interesting(and I don't mean in terms of style exactly) than the match against Serbia.

I have a sneaky feeling Il Trap will try something new...new players and new formation.

I think McGeady is almost certain not to play but I really hope we can see him in action under Traps new system. Its obvious that McGeady will be the focal point of Trapattoni's Ireland so I would like to see how he plays after his terrific season.

I must say I am excited about Andy Keogh. I really hope he starts him up front with Keane. Then at around 60 minutes bring on Longy and Scannell.

I would give McShane another chance alongside Dunne. Look McShane is not all that bad. I was at the game and he was better than Dunne through the match but like has been said he's prone to making stupid mistakes. Its a confidence thing. He wasn't on Man Utd's books for nothing. He wasn't signed by Keane for nothing. The guy is only young. We have to look further than the next two years. He could potentially be around for 10 years, maby more.
Its important we stick with him. I have faith in his ability. I cursed him on Saturday but I really want him to succeed.

It will be a tough game to call, but I can't wait.

Its also live on RTE TWO


Now onto Kerr. What is he playing at? The man is a bitter swine, who needs to realise nobody cares about what he has to say. He is delibetely causing unrest in the Irish team, because in his mind he still feels his sacking was unjust. Message to Brian Kerr: You were an incompetant clown, who knew nothing other than your negative style of football and were responsible for us not qualifying for World Cup 2006.

ANALYSIS : The new Republic of Ireland manager must now realise the extent of the task awaiting him ahead of his first home match in charge.

After the long-drawn out process of his appointment, with inputs from Don Givens, Ray Houghton, Don Howe, Eamon Dunphy, John Giles, Liam Brady and maybe even FAI chief executive John Delaney, since Steve Staunton's departure last October, we finally have a match to watch with our new coach.

And what a coach he is. Giovanni Trapattoni, the most highly qualified Irish manager with an unrivalled record at club level, although the CV does contain notable blemishes on the international stage where, despite some extenuating circumstances, ultimately Italy failed under his tenure at the 2002 World Cup and Euro 2004.

Without similar quality at his disposal Trap has already mentioned the need to work miracles for the Republic of Ireland. This undertaking may prove the greatest challenge of a long, distinguished career in the dugout.

The decision to go for a clean sweep in the backroom sounds fine but discarding efficient kit-man Malcolm Slattery, hugely popular master of all trades John Fallon and not to forget kisser-in-chief Mick Byrne may have caused a few initial rumbles of discontent. Not to mention obvious teething problems including a lack of goalkeeping jerseys and training bibs until just minutes before the recent friendly in Portugal.

It is usually the done thing for a new coach to bring in new personnel but the hiring and firing role of Liam Brady along with his surly, uncomprehending demeanour has not endeared him to seasoned squad members and the staff that have been retained. Also, with the ultra professional Italians on board, the team faces into a period where laughs may be as scarce as hen's teeth.

Brady, one of Irish football's true legends as a player, has ground to make up with those players still bristling from his columns and comments as a TV pundit during recent campaigns. This could conceivably include Lee Carsley, Kevin Kilbane, Robbie Keane, Aiden McGeady and John O'Shea.

Indeed, I understand his involvement with Trapattoni at the Stephen Ireland meeting did not go down so well - the Corkman being incensed by Brady's headmaster approach when seeking the Manchester City midfielder's return to the international fold.

I've mentioned before how imperative it is that Steve Finnan, Andy O'Brien and Ireland return given the paucity of international quality in the current squad. Their absence from these next two games indicates the wrong approach is being taken. This could lead to further alienation of the trio and other players nearing retirement age. Unfortunately, many of the present-day players often require constant encouragement and outlandish pampering to commit themselves to the green jersey.

From my own experience it was obvious the Portuguese training camp and matches were of little value to the new management team when it comes to working with the real Irish team. The fact that just four of the line-up against Brazil showed up tells its own story. At least the addition of Keane, Richard Dunne, O'Shea and McGeady makes the squad interaction more relevant this week.

Portugal merely served to confirm for Trapattoni the lack of true depth of our squad. No matter how much he dresses it up. Many of the new players given an opportunity will never make an impact in a successful Irish side. In attempting to combine on-field application with off-field discipline, Italian style, Trap would have been hugely disappointed with players breaking the 1am curfew by several hours. At least he knows the score now.

That said, there are many positive aspects to the new regime and potential remains evident with a full-strength Irish team on the pitch. We wish Trap well on his latest adventure.

Ireland's tactical Trap - will fans stomach catenaccio?

IRELAND'S NEW tactical approach? While there have been plenty of references to Giovanni Trapattoni's traditionally cautious approach, this has been clouded by some mixed messages from the man himself. Perhaps it's the shortfall in English lessons but his initial statement that, "It is dangerous to change a lot" conflicts with more recent utterings when he talked about introducing a more measured tempo for the Republic of Ireland: "All I say to them is to go quiet." Can this be interpreted as the gradual introduction of catenaccio to Irish football?

I agree completely with the initial sentiment that it is dangerous to completely overhaul our natural style and it will be intriguing to observe an attempted adoption of a more cautious, disciplined approach with players who have not been brought up on this type of football.

All attempts at change from 4-4-2 or the recent fashion of 4-2-2-1-1, with a fast and furious pressing style, has been frowned upon by both fans and media alike - even dating back to the John Giles midfield maestro era in the 1970s (Incidentally, I used to like the Giles way. He would demand the ball from the defenders and pass it. Demand it back and supply the forwards but the crowd always wanted it up the pitch quicker. Giles was brilliant but the terraces couldn't stand it).

Indeed, Trap is correct when he states "success is more important than to play well", but the education of the Irish international-going punter (not always the most genuine fan mind, rather the supporter who has access to tickets) and our media to a more modern, hybrid version of catenaccio should prove very interesting to observe.

The implementation of such tactics both home and away may lead to more consistent results, especially achieving the crucial sticky points on the road, that prove so crucial for qualification.

But trying to achieve this in the negative style of Greek manager Otto Rehhagel at Euro 2004, whom Trap has held up as an example for Ireland to follow, will hardly endear him to the children of the Jack Charlton army, reared on the "Put Them Under Pressure" mantra.

Tonight will tell us more.

* Catenaccio is a tactical system with an emphasis on defence. In Italian, catenaccio means "door-bolt" and the system was made famous by Argentinian trainer Helenio Herrera at Inter Milan in the 1960s who used it to grind out 1-0 wins.

Is anyone going to the game on Thursday?

I might be, but its costing more than expected.

SantryRed

Don't really care for the result as long as it's an encouraging performance and Weso gets a run out:D

Savman

estebancambias wrote: »

Now onto Kerr. What is he playing at? The man is a bitter swine, who needs to realise nobody cares about what he has to say. He is delibetely causing unrest in the Irish team, because in his mind he still feels his sacking was unjust. Message to Brian Kerr: You were an incompetant clown, who knew nothing other than your negative style of football and were responsible for us not qualifying for World Cup 2006.

Whoah. Brian Kerr was arguably the best Irish manager to manage the Republic of Ireland in the past 20 years.

As part of his technical director remit, Kerr was manager of republic of Ireland sides from Under-16 to Under-20 level. His first major tournament was the 1997 World Youth Championships. Kerr surprised many commentators by bringing 3 players from the League of Ireland but was proved correct when Republic of Ireland won bronze medals by finishing third. The undoubted star of the Irish team was Damien Duff.
The following year Kerr guided Republic of Ireland to an unprecedented double by winning both the Under-16 and Under-18 European Championships. No Irish team had ever won a major trophy before (and none have won since). A number of the players involved would go on to win full international caps, such as John O'Shea and Robbie Keane. In 1999 Republic of Ireland were knocked out of the World Youth Championships by hosts Nigeria on penalties in the quarter final. He again qualified Ireland for the 2003 World Youth Championships before taking up the position of manager of the senior national side.

A little bit of respect wouldn't go astray, just because you don't agree with the man's opinion doesn't make him a bitter anything and doesn't warrant begrudgery.

DSB

Savman wrote: »

Whoah. Brian Kerr was arguably the best Irish manager to manage the Republic of Ireland in the past 20 years.

Probably because he was almost the only 1.

SantryRed

DSB wrote: »

Probably because he was almost the only 1.

Staunton's the only other one. And I'm guessing we should forget about him:D

nedward

Em, Mick McCarthy?

Bounty Hunter

nedward wrote: »

Em, Mick McCarthy?

you mean Michael Joseph "Mick" McCarthy (b. February 7, 1959, Barnsley, England)

nedward

The rest of the opening line of Wikipedia article
Michael Joseph "Mick" McCarthy (b. February 7, 1959, Barnsley, England) is an English-born Irish former professional footballer, who is currently the manager of Wolverhampton Wanderers.

He was born in England, but he's still Irish, like so many of our players Just making the point he's still Irish, despite his accent

Bounty Hunter

love how pointing out someone uses wiki as a source makes them look foolish. not going to get into the he is/he's not irish, hes qualified for Ireland but English or he thinks of himself as Irish even if Roy Keane doesent arguement.

Personally think Kerr wasnt given a fair crack at the job and should have kept the job (and thats not just cos of how great his replacement was).

Anyway anyone know what standard Columbia are at these days?

DSB

nedward wrote: »

Just making the point he's still Irish

He isn't really but how and ever.

Savman

nedward wrote: »

The rest of the opening line of Wikipedia article
Michael Joseph "Mick" McCarthy (b. February 7, 1959, Barnsley, England) is an English-born Irish former professional footballer, who is currently the manager of Wolverhampton Wanderers.

He was born in England, but he's still Irish, like so many of our players Just making the point he's still Irish, despite his accent

If we're including Mick, despite his relatively good achievements getting us to the WC etc etc, Kerr actually won silverware.
Some people still think he has an axe to grind never mind the fact the squad he inherited was useless, we only narrowly missed out on qualification in the last game against Switzerland and, worst of all, the FAI 'replaced' him with a rookie with a grand total of zero games in management. Now, pray tell, what would you expect from someone in Kerr's position? His record still speaks for itself and he's perfectly entitled to dissect the current team because the man obviously is qualified and clearly knows his stuff.

Calling him a "bitter swine" is absolutely ridiculous as is saying he's an "incompetent clown".

_blank_

Savman wrote: »

Some people still think he has an axe to grind

Kerr does have an axe to grind.

He's spent the last year at St Pat's purposely annoying the FAI, I'll tell you all about it tomorrow.:pac:

Savman

Dear god not again

DSB

Savman wrote: »

If we're including Mick, despite his relatively good achievements getting us to the WC etc etc, Kerr actually won silverware.

That was with junior sides though, yes? I know thats impressive, but it isn't a fair medium to judge on either. McCarthy etc. didn't manage the youth sides.

estebancambias

Why does he persist in trying to unsettle the Irish squad?


He was never up to the job. His record with our youth teams was brilliant no doubt but he should hold his hands up and say ''I wasn't good enough'' rather than holding this personal grudge.


I was just being dramatic with the incompetant clown merely because I wanted to make the thread seem opinionated and brash.

Basically I don't like what he's doing. He should leave it, and be more focused on persuing his own career after leaving Pats.


I know this is always be done, but here is the team I would go for:

Kiely

Same back four as Saturday.

Garvan A.Reid(is he fit?) If not Whelan

Duff Keogh Hoolihan

Scannell

leninbenjamin

Savman wrote: »

Calling him a "bitter swine" is absolutely ridiculous as is saying he's an "incompetent clown".

I had more time for Kerr than most people i knew. and while i'd agree with the above you also have to say, he hasn't exactly carried himself with dignity over the past few years.

but the ironing is massive. by and large his primary criticisms of Trappatoni are reputedly his own failings if the players and media are to be believed. overly negative, mixed messages, poor CV where it counts, and so on...

Savman

estebancambias wrote: »

I was just being dramatic with the incompetant clown merely because I wanted to make the thread seem opinionated and brash.

Basically I don't like what he's doing. He should leave it, and be more focused on persuing his own career after leaving Pats.

Fair enough so, just no need for the sensationalist puns.

DSB wrote:

That was with junior sides though, yes? I know thats impressive, but it isn't a fair medium to judge on either. McCarthy etc. didn't manage the youth sides.

Of course junior is miles away from senior international level. My point is simply that anyone who takes a footy team from this island and wins silverware against the best in Europe should be given a serious pat on the back and name etched into FAI folklore, not cast out and portrayed as public enemy number 1.

You can probably tell I liked Kerr and didn't like to see him go, yes we were fairly negative under him but if Stan could defer some of the blame onto the players shoulders then surely Briano could/should have been afforded the same treatment.

Anyways onwards and upwards, have yet to see this Trap guy in action so must try see this fixture.

Mr.Nice Guy

I'm hoping that the youth get a chance rather than players who are experienced but have underperformed, ie McShane and Miller.

I'd like to see something along the lines of...

---

Kiely

---

Kelly --- Dunne --- O'Shea --- Delaney
- Duff --- Whelan --- Garvan --- McGeady

---

Scannell ---- Keane

---

I'm hoping Garvan features at some stage as he looks really promising and would benefit from a run out. McGeady should feature if fit. O'Shea needs to be tried in a partnership with Dunne I reckon. I feel Whelan deserves another opportunity. Scannell looks a good prospect with his lightning pace. Hopefully some changes will occur anyway.

Should be a good game. I did like though how it's been sold to the locals in Fulham:

Republic of Ireland v Columbia Tickets are now available for a great friendly match up between two of the best international teams on the planet. The match will be taking place at Fulham’s Craven Cottage stadium so if you want to see a cracking game between these two attacking sides, pick up your Republic of Ireland v Columbia Tickets right here.

The Republic of Ireland are one of the top football teams in the world, boasting some players of genuine quality so your Republic of Ireland v Columbia Tickets will ensure you see some of the best players in the world. Columbia also have some great players to rival historical greats like Carlos Valderrama so you’re in for a good game with your Republic of Ireland v Columbia tickets.

http://www.viewlondon.co.uk/whatson/republic-of-ireland-v-columbia-tickets-article-6421.html

Surely they're liable under the Trade Descriptions Act for that? :pac:

Savman

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I had more time for Kerr than most people i knew. and while i'd agree with the above you also have to say, he hasn't exactly carried himself with dignity over the past few years.

but the ironing is massive. by and large his primary criticisms of Trappatoni are reputedly his own failings if the players and media are to be believed. overly negative, mixed messages, poor CV where it counts, and so on...

Dude I'm not saying the sun shone out of his arse, but he was a Dub who won things with Irish junior squads and didn't deserve to be scapegoated. I genuinely wanted to see him do well but in the end it was the results that cost him, I think he knew that himself. I think at the time our expectation level was far higher than realistic, I think that was the message he was trying to get out but nobody would listen. We all thought tournament qualification was our god given right, thanks to Stan for putting that to bed once and for all. Now we're well and truly miles behind in our development when we should have been keeping up the pace with our European counterparts. In all fairness, it has less to do with the various managers and more to do with the crowd that seem to know sweet FAI about the game itself.

Let's not put Kerr in the firing line of the real incompetent clown(s).

Pigman II

I'm convinced Kerr would have been a good manager for Ireland if he had first served his time in the English leagues and been able to gain the respect of the senior players in the squad. But unfortunately he's was promoted to the top job when he had arguably less experience of football where it matters than Steve Staunton

However, no matter how Trap does in this term he can always tell any Irish player "I've bigger than you, I've seen more than you and I've won more than you". That shuts most of them up right away before there's even a chance of losing the dressing room. This is a luxury Kerr didn't have at the time.

DSB

Pigman II wrote: »

"I've bigger than you"

Thank **** Dion Dublin never played for Ireland.

uberwolf

several players broke the curfew by several hours.

FFS, fringe players who should be desperate to make an impression prefer to spend a night on the lock with relative strangers

Pigman II

DSB wrote: »

Thank **** Dion Dublin never played for Ireland.

I'm sure Trap is still bigger.

Bounty Hunter

Trap said he let em have a night off after working very hard, and that he had no problems with any players for alledgeably missing a curfew.

DSB

Pigman II wrote: »

I'm sure Trap is still bigger.

I've heard otherwise.

Pigman II

DSB wrote: »

I've heard otherwise.

Who told you this? Arsene Wenger?

~Rebel~

I definately think Kerr was harshly dealt with at the time. I was one of the people who was happy enough with him being fired, but ONLY on the condition that the FAI did what they said and replaced him with a world class manager. Would have far preferred an extra 2 years of him over Staunton.


But I thin he went a bit far in his criticisms of the setup, saying nobody wanted Brady's involvement etc. Was good to see Trap just shrug it off saying Brady has a very important role and that if players cant take criticism they shouldn't be in football.


Whats the story with this whole curfew thing, the media keep going on about it even after Trap said he had given them permission to head out late after a sponsors dinner..

DSB

Pigman II wrote: »

Who told you this? Arsene Wenger?

Nah Fergie.

Pigman II

DSB wrote: »

Nah Fergie.

He also said Paul Scholes was hung like a donkey tho.

DSB

Pigman II wrote: »

He also said Paul Scholes was hung like a donkey tho.

At least we know he keeps a close eye on whats going on behind the scenes.

leninbenjamin

Savman wrote: »

I think that was the message he was trying to get out but nobody would listen.

iirc he drew twice with Isreal because he sat back and tried to protect a single goal lead, allowing them the space to come onto us. had we won those games we would have gotten into the playoffs ahead of the Swiss...

he's a good manager and he has been poorly treated I agree, but at the same time since then he's done nothing but lump the blame elsewhere but himself. regardless of whether or not this is the actual case or not (and i'm inclined to believe so) there's nothing dignified about the way he is carrying himself these days. remember when it was Kerr giving out about how the press were all out to get him? now he's one of the most vocal critics of the new regime. i don't see why his actions are worth defending.

Pigman II

DSB wrote: »

At least we know he keeps a close eye on whats going on behind the scenes.

Yes but I think he's frequently been guilty of exagerating the potential of some of his own players.

Bounty Hunter

people sure would be surprised if they came in here expecting to see comments about the upcoming international and instead a list of fergies buddies from the shower room.

anyway anyone know how good Columbia are atm?

jesus_thats_gre

estebancambias wrote: »

yone going to the game on Thursday?

I might be, but its costing more than expected.

Me

DSB

Pigman II wrote: »

Yes but I think he's frequently been guilty of exagerating the potential of some of his own players.

Yeah hes definitely been guilty of a few cockups on the transfer front.

Pigman II

DSB wrote: »

Yeah hes definitely been guilty of a few cockups on the transfer front.

Too true. Sometimes it seems like he can't realise the size of a problem until it's dangling right in front of his nose.

DSB

He always gets a grip of the offender in the end though, in his defence.

Pigman II

True. He certainly knows how to handle his players in the dressing room (except for maybe Beckham).

DSB

Yeah, I've always maintained that Beckham was a very small man.

Pigman II

Undoubtedly. However Ferguson should have at least pulled him off to one side and talked to him before letting things get out of hand.

DSB

Hahahaha amazing. I can't top that.

shane86

Savman wrote: »

we only narrowly missed out on qualification in the last game against Switzerland .

IIRC we missed having to go to Turkey for a very ill tempered play off where one player got a bad kick in the nads in the tunnel.

I still remember that (well, figures mightnt be exactly right) that if we held the Swiss to a draw and Cyprus beat France in Paris we would qualify there and then.

In the event the Cypriots got raped 6-0 or something


Personally I thought the ironing was delicious when he said Liam Bradys attitude was the reason Ste Ireland had done a second turnaround and refused to play.


btw what did Jack Charlton say about Trap (as mentioned in the thread title). Cant see her anywhere in the OP.

horseflesh

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Me

Me too
Heading over on Thursday with my brother & two mates, then making a weekend of it.

thusspakeblixa

Was meant to be going but doesn't look likely now as I'm sick
Hopefully Scannell gets a run out, along with Garvan
From what I've seen of Scannell he looks very good, and I thought Garvan should've been in the squad last year for the tour to the US (and since then)

String

trapattoni out :pac:

jesus_thats_gre

horseflesh wrote: »

Me too
Heading over on Thursday with my brother & two mates, then making a weekend of it.

Strange coincidence 7 of us going over and staying the weekend too..

Vokes

estebancambias wrote: »

Ireland continue their pre-world cup preparations with a match against Columbia at Craven Cottage.

I think this match will be more interesting(and I don't mean in terms of style exactly) than the match against Serbia.

I have a sneaky feeling Il Trap will try something new...new players and new formation.

I think McGeady is almost certain not to play but I really hope we can see him in action under Traps new system. Its obvious that McGeady will be the focal point of Trapattoni's Ireland so I would like to see how he plays after his terrific season.

Why do you figure that about McGeady? Him being a winger, I wouldn't thought so myself unless Trap plans on playing him in a new central position. Trapattoni's main men have always been players playing in the centre. So I reckon that focal point is gonna fall upon Keane or S. Ireland (hopefully the latter if they get him back.

estebancambias wrote:

Is anyone going to the game on Thursday?

*raises hand* Looking forward to seeing Delaney and Scanell in action.

---

Just finished reading Trapattoni: A Life in Football yesterday - anyone else read this? Its a nice quick read for those (like me) who don't know much about him, about his early days playing for Milan and his entire managerial career. Things that stood out are:

- he gives youth a chance; likes to mix in some new blood wiith old hands
- focuses on tactical / physical training rather than skills training (i.e. tackling / passing / dribbling etc...), so takes a while for players to take his ideas on board and for a team to gel (Salzburg / Benefica were exceptions to this it seems)
- has designated favourite players that he builds teams around (Matthaus, Platini, Totti). Seems some Italian players (Cassano, Del P) were a bit annoyed at this back in 00-04.

dubmick

Is it definitely on RTE? SkySports 1 are showing it. Strange if it was on 2 channels.

estebancambias

Yep for a fact.


Sofak, have you seen any of Trap's interviews? All he ever mentions is McGeady. Its obvious this is the player who impresses him the most. I even read a quote, where he said ''people like Dunne, O'Shea and McGeady will usually play''

I will try to find the source.

gucci

horseflesh wrote: »

Me too
Heading over on Thursday with my brother & two mates, then making a weekend of it.

Presume you can pay at the gate for the game? How much is it in?
I cant go as I'm flying from Birmingham next morn, but my mate is going from London(mix up of flights!) so he was interested in taking trip down Thurs and staying over.

horseflesh

gucci wrote: »

Presume you can pay at the gate for the game? How much is it in?
I cant go as I'm flying from Birmingham next morn, but my mate is going from London(mix up of flights!) so he was interested in taking trip down Thurs and staying over.

Well it obviously won't be a sell-out, so I presume it will be easy to get a ticket on the night.
I *think* we got the £30 tickets, just to be sure of good seats.